New Fastpass Privileges Coming?

[Cricket2]

Beating a dead horse is one thing if it was only in theory. Only so much discussion can be tolorated over an idea or rumor. If that rumor sees the light of day however, the horse must have a pretty good vet.

Now where is my bat....

(No animals were harmed in the creation of this reply)

JC

 

[Cheshire Figment]

My wife and I live outside Washington DC, but we have been WDW A/P holders for over ten years. We cannot get a package as we have APs. However, we tend to stay on-property much more than off. We went for almost a year with most of our stays off-property as they had done away with early entry as a benefit for staying on-property. If they bring this to WDW and do not give it to EVERYONE staying at a Disney Resort they are again making us see that there is no advantage to staying ojn-property instead of off.

 

[Bob O]

I would agree with irodk, i would pay for a premuin pass and it is going to happen sooner or later as it adds another money stream.
And if they limit it to a reasonable number of passes per park per day it may not have that bog of a affect on lines.
And while we all have the same opportunties in regards to fastpasses not all guests have the same knowledge of how the system works, how to have mutiple fastpasses at the same time or what rides are on the same system.
So is that fair?? Or do we want a socialist system to get rid of any inequities???

 

[All Aboard]

Or do we want a socialist system to get rid of any inequities???

It took a full five posts!

Does it sound like that's what I prefer? It's all a matter of degree. I imagine that a family of 4 who plunked down aroung $1000 for park hoppers would rather not have to stand idle in line while a parade of FOTL holders waltzed past them all day long.

It's not what Disney parks have ever been about. Pay more to get more park priveleges at the expense of other paying guests. I rarely pull out the "Walt" card, but I have to imagine this concept is one that he would have NEVER agreed to.

 

[Bob O]

Disney has always had plans for so-called VIP's to avoid lines, just now the regular customer may get a chance to avoid some lines if they are willing to pay for the privilege of doing so.
As long as it is implemented properly i dont have any problem at all with this type of system as long as the average guest can still acquire fastpasses.
Even in Walts day vip's didnt wait in regular lines like i just did at DL.

 

[raidermatt]

First, I said (I don't usually quote myself, but please bear (or bare) with me. At least I'm not referring to myself in the third person very much!):

I'm pretty much ok with the concept of a Fastpass "caste" system if you will, ...

gcurling said (and Baron agreed):

Right now, every single guest that walks through the turnstiles at a WDW park has the same access to attractions. You can get Fastpasses under the same set of rules, or wait in standby lines.

gcurling further clarified:

It's not what Disney parks have ever been about. Pay more to get more park priveleges at the expense of other paying guests. I rarely pull out the "Walt" card, but I have to imagine this concept is one that he would have NEVER agreed to.

Now, I feel like Clark Kellogg in The Freshman ("from the great state of Montana!"), after being visited by the FBI. Have I been too hasty in my initial assessment? What's the right thing to do in this case? (ok, so the analogy starts breaking down when we try to figure out who is represented by the crooked FBI guys, and who is represented by the loveable Don, but you get the point....I'm experiencing an internal conflict. No, not the kind you get after eating bad fish...)

I'll have to ponder this all-important, potentially life altering situation a bit further...

 

[Sarangel]

I've been avoiding this so far, but this quote finally got to me:

Pay more to get more park priveleges at the expense of other paying guests. I rarely pull out the "Walt" card, but I have to imagine this concept is one that he would have NEVER agreed to.

Ummm.... Gentlebeings, I respectfully disagree. I know that we all consider Walt the champion of 'everyman,' but when Disneyland opened in 1955, they sold ticket books for the rides. You spent a certain amount per book, and got a certain number of tickets for each class of ride in each book. This means, if you were willing to spend more money, you could ride the "good" rides more often than those who spent less money. Sounds like a caste system to me.

The general park admission was only instituted in the 1980's (as I recall).

Sarangel

 

[All Aboard]

Sarangel, apples and oranges I feel.

The primary difference between the number of tickets you bought v. having unlimited Fastpass is the impact on the other guests.

Holding 200 E-Tickets did not permit you to bypass the wait, it merely afforded you the opportunity to stand in line 200 times for Pirates. Now, if those were Golden E-Tickets with a separate queue, then yes, Walt would have established a clear caste system in his park.

 

[doubletrouble_vb]

As far as I can tell Disney has always been about a caste system. DVC'ers are treated differently from regular resort guests, resort guests who bought UMP packages get far different options from those who bought regular AP's or hoppers.

At the moment I'm an AP holder & DVC'er...and I don't see a problem with this notion as long as the target population is small... AP holders DO have access to privileges not granted to others and they aren't necessarily worthless...for example...heavily discounted hotel rooms (where available).

Targeting AAA package buyers seems strange. Targeting premium pass buyers...whether premium AP pass or some form of premium UMP makes a heck of a lot of sense...as well as people who purchase rooms in premium locations at premium prices (wails just went up from the All-Stars).

I see no reason for a Florida passholder to get this benefit...nor a regular AP passholder. ..if the pass was worthwhile to those purchasers before NOT getting a new benefit won't make it less worthwhile....the thing is good for a year not a summer. As for DVC'ers....I purchased an accomodation not a park ticket. I wish there were more benefits associated with DVC but I recognize DVC is a huge benefit to me by itself.

Let me add that I'm a Disney shareholder as well... I don't think Disney would be so stupid as to adversely affect the wait times on the "stand-by" line by putting out huge volumes of fast pass. That would quickly begin to drive people to other forms of entertainment and i think Disney understands that.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

OK, this subject is one that grabs me. And while I haven’t had much enthusiasm for posting lately, I feel this one cuts right to the very heart of the philosophy I’m always talking about.

So, a couple of points. First BobO:

Or do we want a socialist system to get rid of any inequities???

Well Bob. You and I agree on almost everything, but I think in your zeal to bypass your fellow guests in exchange for a couple of bucks out of your pocket, you’ve lost sight of what is inherent in the “Walt” philosophy.

THE DISNEY EXPERIENCE (including cutting the wait times) IS NOT A COMMODITY AND IS NOT FOR SALE TO THE HIGHEST BIDDER!!!!

It is simply provided by Disney for EVERYONE’S enjoyment. That’s why it’s magical!!! It is priced the same for everyone!! And that price SHOULD be set as low as possible, to be as all inclusive as possible. (Just between you and me, that last bit has been lost on current management (and even many here) for quite some time now!) Anyway, like it or not, that ‘socialist’ thing, while not good at all for a government model, is PERFECT for the Disney philosophy model.

Greg shows he understands this basic concept when he said:

It's not what Disney parks have ever been about. Pay more to get more park privileges at the expense of other paying guests.

I would have left off the bit about “at the expense of other paying guests”, but that’s just me.

Of course why that pure and simple concept cannot be extrapolated to the resorts is beyond me!!! But that’s another subject entirely!

$coop!!

I'll have to agree with...
...OTPB (shorthand for: one trick pony Baron)

After I got up off the floor I laughed out loud!! And I passed out again when I read, again from our beloved $coop (Man!! I like the way that looks!!):

...then again, as I type this I realize that the real roots of "resort envy" might not be a whole lot different than the quite likely soon to be "fastpass envy"

All I can say is:

BINGO!!!


doubletrouble_vb. A request.

As far as I can tell Disney has always been about a caste system. DVC'ers are treated differently from regular resort guests, resort guests who bought UMP packages get far different options from those who bought regular AP's or hoppers.

How about if we start our Disney History a littler earlier than half way through Ei$ner’s tenure? Eh?






PS:

Now, I feel like Clark Kellogg in The Freshman

Matt. You have great taste in movies!!

 

[Dznefreek]

I'm afraid Disney will start being like Universal and make you pay for "fastpass" type options. That would ruin the idea IMHO.

Universal does not make you pay for "Universal Express". You have the option of purchasing a book of Universal Express tix. The basic "UE" is free and offers a choice of two different return times as opposed to FASTPASS 1 return option. USF/IOA also offers UE on just about every attraction. They are not selective like WDW.

 

[SnackyStacky]

This whole rumor doesn't shock me at all. I hope that it never comes to pass, but it doesn't shock me in the least.

I can see nothing in the company's history that leads me to believe that this isn't driven PURELY by profit, because any way you want to discuss that they might do this, it still ends up being that whoever pays more, gets more.

It all just comes back to the financial tweaking. You can trim here, and cut there, and overcharge for this, that, or the other thing, and by themselves, these won't affect much. But put them all together and the magic meter doesn't just drop, that meter that reads how ripped off you feel bumps it right out of the picture.

I really do feel like writing more, but it's late and I'm just not in the mood right now.

 

[raidermatt]

Still pondering, but I did want to ask a question...

Holding 200 E-Tickets did not permit you to bypass the wait, it merely afforded you the opportunity to stand in line 200 times for Pirates. Now, if those were Golden E-Tickets with a separate queue, then yes, Walt would have established a clear caste system in his park.

Ok, I can see that. The gain of the 200 E-ticket guest was not a loss for the other guests, while allowing some to get extra FPs does negatively impact other guests.

So maybe its not quite as severe. But isn't it still a caste system? Family A wants to visit DL, but can only afford admission, no tickets. Family B has unlimited funds and visits, purchasing plenty of tickets. Family A has fun, but spends the day watching Family B enjoy attractions they cannot enjoy, even though they are all in the same park. The 8-year old daughter in Family A begs to go on Peter Pan's Flight, but Daddy A must say no. Can't afford it (man, that would be tough to say...). So, the daughter in Family A watches the daughter in Family B exit PPF smiling from ear to ear, with a wondrous expression on her face.

Now, that maybe a bit dramatic, and it may not have been Walt's reason for offering the different admission options, but he had to know it would be one of the results nonetheless.

Maybe he felt the postives of the system outweighed the negatives. But clearly guests had a different standing within the park, predicated on how many tickets they could buy, and this was just as visible as the FP situation.

I'm not saying this makes the proposed FP system OK. After all, even Walt made mistakes. However, I do want to understand how the tickets are that different a situation than the FPs, because I'm not seeing it that way.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

So maybe it’s not quite as severe. But isn't it still a caste system?

No! It was THEE system. The only system! EVERY amusement park in the country charged ‘per-ride’. The concept of a ‘general admission – ride all for free’ was absolutely unheard of!! Maybe if Walt had thought about it, he would have done it. We’ll never know.

As it is, he went a couple of step further. First, look at how he priced the tickets! My God!! They were downright cheap, in comparison with what the competition was offering. And he implemented the ticket book which had built in savings. We also need to look at his thought process at the time. Remember, he didn’t want ANY general admission at all! Roy talked him into it. And not for profit’s sake, but to keep the riff-raff out. It all goes back to the memory of a nine year old standing outside the fence, looking in on the local amusement park and not having enough money to even get through the gate let alone go on a ride.

So, yes. This is a capitalistic society. And Disney is a business. They cannot give their product away, or they would no longer be in business. And that’s where the “Walt” philosophy comes into play. Heck! Anyone can listen to the sharp pencil guys and inch that profit ratio to the max. But it takes a guy who “gets it” to rein in those prices to levels that are both reasonably sound in a business sense, yet endears the public to your company so much so that even a guy like Ei$ner has a hard time knocking out the loyalty, even though he’s tried for the last eighteen years!!!

After all, even Walt made mistakes.

I don’t see it as a “mistake”. The worst that can be said is that he didn’t invent the “one price” concept. He just went with what everyone else was doing at the time. And that was just simply charging for the ride.

 

[SnackyStacky]

However, I do want to understand how the tickets are that different a situation than the FPs, because I'm not seeing it that way.

The difference I see here between the pay per ride ticket and this proposed Fast Pass system:

Just imagine that your admission today is the general admission including A-E tickets of the old Disney way. It didn't alienate anybody.

The problem I see with your scenario Matt is that what family would go to Disneyland, only able to afford the general admission? That'd be downright stupid. It's sort of a given that when you go someplace like Disneyland, you'd better have money if you want to go on the rides (obviously if the ticket system was the way they operated). It's like going to the county fair, or carnival and not having money to do the fun stuff. Our county fair in New York works that way. I think it's between $5 and $10 to get in, and then you have to purchase so many admission tickets if you want to ride the rides. I either go not expecting to ride the rides, or I take some money if I want to ride the rides. If I had a child, you'd better believe I'd have money to put the kid on the rides he or she wanted to go on. Otherwise, I wouldn't even suggest it.

So imagine that it's the Disney of yesteryear. You've bought your general admission, and paid to go on some of the rides. Introducing: Fastpass! Pay us $[fill in dollar amount here] more, and your A-E tickets will allow you to bypass the line!!! And when you're filling in that dollar amount, realize that it will be JUST expensive enough that not everybody will take it. Just a select few.

"Select few" in my opinion would be in the sameplace with "demographic" and "marketing to [insert specific demographic here]": Walt's garbage can!

So maybe it’s not quite as severe. But isn't it still a caste system?

No more so than today's admission prices. Disney admission is EXPENSIVE. The only people that were "caste out" (HAHAHA! sorry.....) were those who couldn't afford the general admission and ride prices. Take a look at the park today. I pretty much think you can say that the only people who are "caste out" (I said it again!!!! ) are those who can't afford the general admission and ride prices (which happen to be rolled into one expensive price).

 

[DisneyKidds]

Ahhhh.............the Baron speaking in CAPS, color, and !!!!!!. Finally a real debate .

AP holders DO have access to privileges not granted to others and they aren't necessarily worthless...for example...heavily discounted hotel rooms (where available).

Sorry DT, I have to disagree. Not that I need them, but I can/have obtained better discounts with codes which are available to everyone. Now Bob O may say that not everyone knows about codes, but ignorance can not be counted the same as ecxluding someone from a benefit.

First, look at how he priced the tickets! My God!! They were downright cheap, in comparison with what the competition was offering.

Hey, who cares about the competition........and if we add inflation to those 1955 prices I wonder how chea...............nope, not gonna dooit, wouldn't be prudent at this juncture.....

 

[lrodk]

MiceAge has a nice article with a different take on the proposed changes, as well as a historical review of the FastPass system in general.

http://www.miceage.com/kevinyee/ky122002a.htm

 

[Bob O]

Disneykidds, the unaware person who waits alot longer in line im sure would beg to differ that he isnt being treated in a second class manner and wonders why they are being passed up in lines.
Also i have read that Walt was the driving force behind Club 33 which is a very exclusive club that few can join and only do so after paying thousands of dollars. So if DL is to be a utopia where every obe is treated the same then we should all be allowed into the only club that serves alcohol at DL.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Originally posted by lrodk
MiceAge has a nice article with a different take on the proposed changes, as well as a historical review of the FastPass system in general.

http://www.miceage.com/kevinyee/ky122002a.htm

Thanks lrodk!! All I can say is "DITTO"!! I wish I had said that!!

 

[DisneyKidds]

Disneykidds, the unaware person who waits alot longer in line im sure would beg to differ that he isnt being treated in a second class manner and wonders why they are being passed up in lines.

Scenario 1. WDW guest plans a trip and arrives at WDW. Does not take the time to read all available materials and make use of the various things that WDW has to offer, one of those things being the use of fastpasses. WDW guest waits in long lines as a result. WDW guest has only him/herself to blame as he/she is the very one that excluded themself from enjoying the short lines associated with fastpass use.

Scenario 2. WDW guest is aware of the fastpass sytem, yet waits in long lines because WDW excluded them from the use of the premium fastpasses and the short lines associated with those fastpasses.

You see, the difference is that one person excluded themself due to their ignorance, laziness, whatever and another was exluded by Disney. So, even if both feel like second class guests, guest one relegated themself to second class status while the other was put down by the man. Furthermore, the person in scenario one may feel second class, but they were not treated in a second class manner.

If the person in your example wonders why they are being passed up in lines they will ultimately realize that they screwed themself. The person who is being passed up because Disney refused them the ability to obtain those premium fastpasses was treated second class (and screwed) by Disney.

Big difference.....................

As for Walt offering preferential treatment - I don't know what he did, or would do today. I'm ok with the concept, so long as everyone has a shot at obtaining the treatment if it is something that will be used on a widespread basis and significantly impact the WDW experience.