New Fastpass Privileges Coming?

[larworth]

Seen some discussion on other boards that DL is experimenting with allowing expanded FP privileges for certain types of paying customers.

New Disney’s FASTPASS® feature – Now, guests traveling on a Walt Disney Travel Company package have the unique benefit of collecting Disney’s FASTPASS tickets to multiple attractions at one time

and

Travelers who book a Disneyland package through AAA in 2003 receive an "unlimited" Fastpass. Unlike the one-time use Fastpass tickets currently offered, the unlimited Feature allows visitors to obtain another Fastpass without waiting for the time window to expire on the first Fastpass

Should we assume we will be seeing some similar changes at WDW soon? I can see this being another perk in their Desitnation Disney program.

 

[Bob O]

If this comes to pass i will use aaa to plan trip to save time in line!!! Still not as good as fotl but its a good start!!!

 

[KNWVIKING]

I'd be worried that so many people are in parks with FP tickets that it defeats the purpose of the whole program.

 

[raidermatt]

I'm pretty much ok with the concept of a Fastpass "caste" system if you will, but I'm not sure I like these initial offerings.

I want to see exactly how one can get it.

Offering it to those who book through AAA, and not to those who book through CRO or DVC, for example, is a HUGE mistake. Giving 10% discounts to certain groups who aren't your most loyal customers is one thing, but doing the same with FPs takes that to another level completely.

As a DVC owner and AP holder, I know that if I can't get this "bonus" FP, even for a fee, I will be highly perturbed.

When you get down to it, most people understand that price is set by demand. And if loyal customers are willing to pay full price for something, they understand why they are asked to pay full price. Moreso, they understand why discounts are offered to other groups who need more of an incentive to book. (Yeah, there is some complaining here and there, but nothing serious)

Now, I know that Disney probably views the FP's in a similar manner to these discounts. Offer them to those who need more incentive to book. But the difference is that these less loyal customers will have better privileges than the more loyal customers while inside the park. And those privileges are very visible and desireable.

Of course, this is all predicated on to whom the bonus FPs are offered...

 

[Another Voice]

Ya beat me to it.

The new scheme will allow you to have a FastPass for all of the attractions at the same time. The only restriction is that you can’t have two passes for the same attraction at the same time.

The information for this will be on your main gate ticket itself. This is “rumored” to be just the test for the expansion of the entire “premium” ticket system. Limiting it to just the vacation packages initially will give them time to work out the bugs before the expansion. The expansion being admission “plus” tickets at the main gate that offer a similar deal, “super premium” tickets that will produce a pass that’s good immediately and other potential ways of getting people to spend more money.

The system is going into Disneyland first because with fewer FastPass attractions the programming is cheaper and D/L can be watched by management better. When it works here it will be shipped out east.

By the way, the “rumors” are already starting that Disneyland Annual Passholders are furious at the changes. People are already demanding (in not the most polite terms) that AP’s be given the same “privilege” as well. If the howls are persistent enough this whole scheme may have to be delayed while the additional programming happens.

 

[DrKnow77]

I'm afraid Disney will start being like Universal and make you pay for "fastpass" type options. That would ruin the idea IMHO.

 

[seashoreCM]

>>> admission plus tickets, premium admissions...

When DL and then MK opened, the whole ticket system was "admission plus". You got a finite number of individual ride tickets, different tickets valid on different rides. You could buy additional ride tickets. If I remember correctly there was also an "admission only" ticket with no ride privileges.

Disney quickly went to the "pay one price" system, charging one fee at the turnstiles, and this saved the need to have ticket takers at every ride. With FastPass, ticket takers are again needed at individual rides

The idea of "paid fastpasses" is a natural evolution of the original system.

Disney hints:
http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/disney.htm

The tickets in your ticket book were designated "A" through "E", "E-ticket" today means a major ride, that is, comparable to those that commanded an E-ticket back then.

 

[Luv2Roam]

Some times of the year I would gladly pay for FotL. However, if thousands of others can do the same, would it really be worth it?

 

[Cricket2]

AAA preferred parking and AMEX "White Glove" never caused a ruckus, but they were the same type of "echelon" services. Few people cared about these services because they didn't really make an impact on the overall vacation.

If you want the benefit, it IS (will be) available at a price. Just book a package through the proper channels and get the media that allows for the new benefit. I don't see how a contract written in the past (AP's or DVC) should be influenced by a new promotion to sell a different contract (new media). That's just marketing. I'm not saying it's smart marketing, just another kind of marketing.

 

[DisneyKidds]

If you want the benefit, it IS (will be) available at a price. Just book a package through the proper channels and get the media that allows for the new benefit. I don't see how a contract written in the past (AP's or DVC) should be influenced by a new promotion to sell a different contract (new media).

Sorry Mr. J - I just don't agree. I guess it really depends on Disney's motivation for implementing a change - as if there is really any question about the motivation - which means you can largely ignore much of what I am about to say .

If the motivation is to make Disney better, to make the experience better than the competition, and to increase guest satisfaction, Disney is going to have to find a way to make "premium" fastpasses available to a wider cross section of WDW guests. If the motivation is to simply increase profits (assuming that packages booked thru WDTC are more profitable to Disney) then I guess they don't - but that would be another step in the wrong direction, IMHO .

If Disney were to implement a new program that excluded AP holders and DVC members from having the ability to obtain "premium" fastpasses I think there would be problems. (Can you tell I'm an AP holding DVC owner?) If this move is not purely profit motivated, it would make no sense to exclude those people who's admission and lodging are already paid for. Such a move could impact DVC sales (one of the most profitable ventures for Disney at the moment) and would provide a disincentive for people to buy AP's. If this move is purely for profit, Disney should quit looking for a PC way to slip the profits in and just charge $x for the "premium" fastpass option and sell it to everyone as a new media.

Is the long term, repeat, AP buying customer of value to Disney any more - or is it the first time, non repeat, easily ripped off by a WDTC package customer that butters Disney bread?

 

[Bob O]

I would agree with Mr. J. Cricket!!!!
Where does it say the AP holders or DVC members shall receive any other benefits than what they already get!!!! This is a new program that they shouldnt get but should be allowed to buy into if they want to pay additional money!!! Let the whining begin!!!!!
Im sure this is profit motivated which isnt wrong but AP holders or DVC's members shouldnt feel they are "entitled" to this new benefit but should pay for it in the same manner everybody else will!! And of course if they dont like it nothing prevents someone from not renewing their AP or selling their DVC.

 

[Cricket2]

I guess it all comes down to your point of view.

Assuming it will not be offered as a "Premium Plus Annual Pass", a current AP holder may think "I'm getting the short end of the stick", which they are not. You are getting precisely what you signed up for, as are DVC members. Offering this benefit to all current AP holders as well as DVC members may not be enough to satisfy the complaints. They would have to offer it to FL residents. They would have to offer it to anyone in any "echelon" group, which once you add them all up and include the package deals in the mix, would pretty much be the entire "guest" base. The Fast Pass system would cease to exist if everyone and their brother have them. It defeats the purpose of the system to begin with. By definition, this new benefit must be quarantined to a small group for it to work properly.

I never have thought of AP holders and DVC members as Disney's "Bread & Butter". I don't have figures, but I would hazard a guess that they alone are a VERY small group compared to the remainder of the "guest" base, mainly because they are, for the most part, the same group (excluding FL residents).

AP holders get benefits that DVC and package deals do not get.
DVC members get benefits that AP holders and package deals do not get.

This is just a benefit that one group will get that others do not. It's no different, nor will Disney see it as being different. It is a unique combination of incentives marketed to a specific customer base.

DVC members most likely will not dump their membership because of it. AP holders will probably still buy AP's for financial reasons. Yeah, you will get upset, but they do not seem to care about that these days, so why be different now?

By the way, I have been a member of every group mentioned above, so I too feel the pain.

JC

 

[DisneyKidds]

Time out there Bob O Cricket......................

I'm not saying that AP holders or DVC members are entitled to or should be given anything other than the opportunity to pay additional dollars have access to "premium" fastpasses.

First let me say this. If this potential change does not have a significant effect on the current fastpass system and is just a carrot to sell a few overpriced WDTC packages I really don't care what they do. However, if it is a wholesale change that will significantly impact the way the fastpass system works Disney needs to make sure they do it right.

If Disney makes a change and offers a new version of the AP that includes "premium" fastpasses that is fine. Sign me up - I'll buy it. Again, I'm not saying that, if such a change in the fastpass system occurred, that it should be offered to AP holders and DVC members for nothing - but it should be offered for a fee. Likewise for FL residents, etc - yes, the entire guest base. To prevent the system from being overloaded you just price it high enough that not everyone will bite.

To compare any new fastpass benefit to the so called benefits received by AP holders and DVC members is apples to carrots. They aren't even both fruits. AP and DVC benefits are insignificant and pretty much worthless. A "premium" fastpass is a benefit that could have every real impact on they way in which people enjoy (or don't enjoy) the parks.

No, DVC members won't dump memberships. However, that BCV add on we talked about just moved to the back burner. If potential new customers do their research and learn they might exclude themselves from the ability to obtain "premium" fastpasses if they sign on the bottom line some might reconsider. Will I renew my AP's? I assure you that Disney is not guaranteed of that.

As for bread and butter - I really don't know what Disney's is. You are correct, the AP holding DVC member is a relatively small group. However, add in all the non AP holding DVC members, all the non DVC AP holders, all the non AP/non DVC once a year visitors who are unlikely to start buying overpriced WDTC packages - that is probably a pretty large group of pretty important customers. Why are they important? Here is why. If this AP holding, DVC owning family goes to WDW and drops a grand on food, several hundred on spa services and recreation, etc., etc. in a week (and will do it another week in May, then again next November, and again, and again...........), Disney is making a whole lot more money than they are on the first time family I know that just went and spent one third as much on food and didn't set foot or spend a dollar outside of the parks - and is not going to go back for another five years.

I can honestly say that none of the things that many bi**h and moan about around here was a significant factor on our post Turkey day trip. WDW is still the Magical place it always has been. However, something like this potential fastpass thing could possibly be a different ball of wax. It might not be if the contemplated change didn't have a significant impact on the way the fastpass system works and it is just a carrot to sell a few more overpriced packages. But if it is a significant change to the whole fastpass system and it limits people ability to have access at a price it would be another story. I guess only time will tell...........

 

[raidermatt]

Bob, don't confuse entitlement with good business. You're right. NOBODY is entitled to the option of purchasing premium FPs. No argument there, I 100% agree.

However, like DK, I don't thing FPs are the same as "premium parking". Not everybody who goes to WDW even drives. But EVERYBODY (ok, 99.9%) goes on the attractions. The parks, and more specifically the attractions, are the "meat" of WDW. No attractions, no resort (at least not on the current scale). Not even providing the OPTION of paying extra for this privilege to the most loyal and knowledgable guests is a mistake.

I don't have figures, but I would hazard a guess that they alone are a VERY small group compared to the remainder of the "guest" base, mainly because they are, for the most part, the same group (excluding FL residents).

Couple of things. First, remember that if AV is right, this is going to DL first. DL doesn't have DVC. AP holders are mostly locals and make up a fairly significant % of the turnstyle count. I see a very large potential for issues there.

For WDW, your point holds a little better, but the key is your exception "excluding FL residents". You can't just exclude this group. Locals make up a smaller percentage of the overall turnstyle count than at DL, but they are still significant enough, and are more knowledgable about WDW. If they have to wait in a 60 minute line while somebody who doesn't know Donald Duck from Daffy Duck gets what amounts to FOTL access because they booked through AAA, its BAD for Disney.

AP holders are important to Disney. Its why they have Passholder events, lounges, newsletters, etc, etc, etc.

This is just a benefit that one group will get that others do not. It's no different, nor will Disney see it as being different. It is a unique combination of incentives marketed to a specific customer base.

When you view it using target markets and sales incentives, yeah, it looks the same as premium parking or a fanny pack. But again, giving benefits related to attraction access is another ballgame from the CUSTOMER point of view. Especially on a muggy July afternoon.

DVC members most likely will not dump their membership because of it. AP holders will probably still buy AP's for financial reasons. Yeah, you will get upset, but they do not seem to care about that these days, so why be different now?

I'm confused a bit here. Are you merely arguing that Disney will do the dumb thing and not care? If so, I'd certainly grant that as a possibility. Or are you also saying its the right business move? Remember, Disney also thought that eliminating EE wouldn't have an effect on guests staying on-site. After all, who would go through all of the inconvenience of staying off-site just because they couldn't get into MK at 8:00 in the morning?

True, the EE complaints weren't enough to get them to change their mind, but there are a lot more folks who don't book through AAA than those who actually use EE.

 

[Cricket2]

Originally posted by DisneyKidds
Time out there Bob O Cricket......................

Sorry, no relation

First let me say this. If this potential change does not have a significant effect on the current fastpass system and is just a carrot to sell a few overpriced WDTC packages I really don't care what they do.

I don't see how it can't make an impact. Chaos theory. I don't know what that impact would be, but there has to be one.

I'm not saying that AP holders or DVC members are entitled to or should be given anything other than the opportunity to pay additional dollars have access to "premium" fastpasses.

...but it should be offered for a fee. Likewise for FL residents, etc - yes, the entire guest base. To prevent the system from being overloaded you just price it high enough that not everyone will bite.

Point of view again. It IS being priced and offered to everyone, including AP and DVC members. You just have to book a package deal and ignore your past purchases. Sure it's expensive and foolish sounding to ignore your current AP and DVC membership in leiu of booking a package, but that is the cost of having it all.

Anyone can have a box of all purple popsicles. Just buy extra boxes and dump out all of the red and orange ones. Silly yes, but that is the cost of having what you want.

It would be great for a cable company to offer just the channels you wanted, but that's not going to happen. A la carte =$$$$

To compare any new fastpass benefit to the so called benefits received by AP holders and DVC members is apples to carrots. They aren't even both fruits. AP and DVC benefits are insignificant and pretty much worthless. A "premium" fastpass is a benefit that could have every real impact on they way in which people enjoy (or don't enjoy) the parks.

I'll call it a Tomato. Some call it a fruit, some a veggie.

No, DVC members won't dump memberships. However, that BCV add on we talked about just moved to the back burner. If potential new customers do their research and learn they might exclude themselves from the ability to obtain "premium" fastpasses if they sign on the bottom line some might reconsider. Will I renew my AP's? I assure you that Disney is not guaranteed of that.

The AP renewals I agree will bite the dust, but look at the discount system DVC is set up for now. No AP discount! They are steering you towards another media all together. I could see it packaged with an "Unlimited Magic" or whatever they are calling it this month though. I'd guess most DVC purchases are made by guests high on the pixie dust. Super Fast Passes (or whatever) really are not even going to be considered. That part is totally a guess though.

all the non AP/non DVC once a year visitors who are unlikely to start buying overpriced WDTC packages - that is probably a pretty large group of pretty important customers. Why are they important? Here is why. If this AP holding, DVC owning family goes to WDW and drops a grand on food, several hundred on spa services and recreation, etc., etc. in a week (and will do it another week in May, then again next November, and again, and again...........), Disney is making a whole lot more money than they are on the first time family I know that just went and spent one third as much on food and didn't set foot or spend a dollar outside of the parks - and is not going to go back for another five years.

I think the non-AP non-DVC non-package group is SPECIFICALY who they are trying to net here. You are spending shovelfuls of cash already. They however, are not.

Couple of things. First, remember that if AV is right, this is going to DL first. DL doesn't have DVC. AP holders are mostly locals and make up a fairly significant % of the turnstile count. I see a very large potential for issues there.

I did not consider DL in this thinking at all. I have Florida goggles on. Sorry!

I'm confused a bit here. Are you merely arguing that Disney will do the dumb thing and not care? If so, I'd certainly grant that as a possibility. Or are you also saying its the right business move? Remember, Disney also thought that eliminating EE wouldn't have an effect on guests staying on-site. After all, who would go through all of the inconvenience of staying off-site just because they couldn't get into MK at 8:00 in the morning?

I'm speculating that in the meeting when they came up with the idea, DVC, AP holders and FL residents were "sure things" already so giving them one more incentive to spend money they are already spending may seem frivolous (I'm not saying that, I think they may have).

Yes, it IS a stupid move, and no, I don't think they care what others have to say about it. They think they are smarter than the average bear.......er.....mouse.

JC

 

[raidermatt]

I'm speculating that in the meeting when they came up with the idea, DVC, AP holders and FL residents were "sure things" already so giving them one more incentive to spend money they are already spending may seem frivolous (I'm not saying that, I think they may have).


Yes, it IS a stupid move, and no, I don't think they care what others have to say about it. They think they are smarter than the average bear.......er.....mouse.

So it sounds like we basically agree, you are just doing a great job of playing devil's......er......mouse's advocate?

 

[Cricket2]

Yeah, they neglect to tell you that these ears are kept on with staples though

Who am I kidding, I want a pocketfull of fastpasses!

JC

 

[All Aboard]

I've beat this one dead in the past, and don't have the energy or desire to do it again.

Right now, every single guest that walks through the turnstiles at a WDW park has the same access to attractions. You can get Fastpasses under the same set of rules, or wait in standby lines.

I love that about the WDW parks. Each guest is treated with the same amount of privelege.

Any program that grants a certain subset of guest population an opportunity to have a greater amount of access (one that ABSOLUTELY comes at a cost to the other guests by way of increased wait times) is an unfortunate swing in a direction that I had really hoped I'd never see at WDW.

I know I'll get the bevy of standard "pay more to get more" arguments along with "we live in a capatilist country and that's the way it works" Well it hasn't in the WDW theme parks, and I hope it never does. Pay more for a better room, pay more for better food, great - that's the way it should be. Doesn't tread on the other guests in any way. This concept does, and that's why I don't care for it.

Like LandBaron said a couple of years ago, "should we expect new queues, rich people line up here, beautiful people here?"

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

I've beat this one dead in the past, and don't have the energy or desire to do it again.

Ditto!! I have been known to “beat the dead horse” every now and again, as well (come to think of it, it happened just yesterday on $coop’s “five things” thread). Anyway, a lot of the passion (or as you put it, energy or desire) has left me as well. Perhaps putting my dead horse with yours will explain it somewhat.

Right now, every single guest that walks through the turnstiles at a WDW park has the same access to attractions. You can get Fastpasses under the same set of rules, or wait in standby lines.

I love that about the WDW parks. Each guest is treated with the same amount of privilege.

BINGO!!!!! ‘Nuff said!!! And ditto again!!!!

And I really cannot understand how someone steeped in WALT DISNEY philosophy could possibly disagree!! It is what I mean when I say we need someone who “gets it”. To me, that someone would not have to give this proposal a moment’s worth of thought. The proposal would just “feel” wrong! Plain and simple. Anti-Disney. Not in his way of thinking at all!

Why? Because he would “Get It”!! It would NOT have to be explained! And we wouldn't need $coop to offer up five things to change and your friendly neighborhood LandBaron wouldn't need to write four or five pages on why this idea SUCKS!! Which it does!!




(Is the horse still dead?)

 

[lrodk]

I've always believed that sooner or later we'd have a premium fast pass system in WDW. The demand IMHO would be strong enough to sustain such a program. I would definitely pay more for the privelege.