New Disney Cruise Ship

[tap & dap]

We just got off the pin trading cruise on Thursday and what is being RUMORED on the ship is that Disney has a design done for the new SHIPS and that those designs are being bid by shipyards for production.

Disney will not place the order until the dollar is more favorable due to the exchange rate and the added cost. They feel the announcement MAY come in the first quarter of next year.

The announcement will be that they are building 2 ships for delivery in late 2006. The ships will be larger than the current ships similiar to the Royal Caribbean ships that just entered service, basically taller but still able to transit the Panama Canal.

The Magic will go to California in 2005 as part of the celebration, and the RUMOR is that the ship will sail from Port Canaveral to Long Beach via the Panama Canal and back again. It will alternate this cruise with a Mexican Riviera Cruise. They thought Alaska was most likely not a posibility at the start until the new ships arrived.

As I said this is the current RUMORS on the ship pretty much talked about by all but no one will confirm any of it at this point.

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by tailfethrs
OK not saying where I've heard it, but yes there is a 3rd ship (Discovery), and it should be done very soon. Most likely working the West Coast for at least part of the year.

Last I heard DCL was entertaining bids but nothing was proceeding due to the currently unfavorable exchange rate. We shall see.

 

[GenieDana]

If they are considering a Panamax ship, then the dimensions would be the nearly the same as the current ships:

Panamax length: 964.56 feet, beam: 105.97 feet, draft: (39.5 feet allowable draft) (41.5 feet maximum draft), volume: 100,000 gross tons

Magic & Wonder:
Length: 964
Beam: 106
Draft: 25'

So they must be designing "up."

An interesting link: http://intro.masa-yards.fi/publications/pdf/Seatrade2001.pdf

Although written in 2001, Look at the last page 15 of 15, bottom right. What ship is that?

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

Originally posted by GenieDana
So they must be designing "up."

Yes, the rumor is that the blueprints for the next generation of Disney ships are for larger ships, but still "Panamax" sized.

The Magic and Wonder are each either 83,000 gross tons or 85,000 gross tons, depending where you read the specifications. (By the way, the measure "gross tons" is a measure of volume, not weight.)

It's likely that there will be an additional deck, and that there will be staterooms closer to the bow. In this regard, the design would be more like the RCCL Radiance of the Seas or Brilliance of the Seas, which are "Panamax" sized sister ships of 90,090 gross tons each. It will be interesting to see if Disney's maritime architects will be able to add this additional revenue-producing space, while still maintaining the striking good looks and classic lines of the Magic and Wonder.

Just because a ship is "Panamax" sized, there's no guarantee that the ship will ever travel through the Panama Canal -- but it provides the option to reposition the ship to the West Coast, or eventually to sell the ship to an operator that wants that option.

When a cruise line doesn't bother with "Panamax," the result can be much larger ships. RCCL's Navigator Of The Seas and her sister ships are each 142.000 gross tons. Cunard's Queen Mary 2 is 150,000 gross tons.

Originally posted by GenieDana
An interesting link: http://intro.masa-yards.fi/publications/pdf/Seatrade2001.pdf

Although written in 2001, Look at the last page 15 of 15, bottom right. What ship is that?

It looks like a Holland-America ship, but I don't know which one.

 

[GenieDana]

Wen't to HAL, and it appears to be the Zuiderdam - Oh well, maybe next time.

 

[jrabbit]

What ship is that?

Looks like the Magic or Wonder but with only 1 "smoke stack" (the one shown must be the real one) and not enough lifeboats and no "gold" mickey designs on the bow of the ship.

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

Originally posted by jrabbit
Looks like the Magic or Wonder but with only 1 "smoke stack" (the one shown must be the real one) and not enough lifeboats and no "gold" mickey designs on the bow of the ship.

It looks a lot more like a Holland America Vista Class cruise ship, such as the Zuiderdam and Oosterdam. Holland America ships have dark hulls and single stacks. But the Zuiderdam and Oosterdam were built by the Italian shipyard Fincantieri Cantieri Navali, not by Kvaerner Masa-Yards.

In fact, it's not a Holland America ship after all. And it's absolutely not a current or future Disney ship.

It's the design for the "Conference Ship Sea America," as shown on the Kvaerner Masa-Yards Technology page http://intro.masa-yards.fi/marinekmytpictures.asp

By the way, the link above is worth looking at if you want to see some wild ship designs.

 

[Lloyd Dobler]

Originally posted by Horace Horsecollar
It looks a lot more like a Holland America Vista Class cruise ship, such as the Zuiderdam and Oosterdam. Holland America ships have dark hulls and single stacks. But the Zuiderdam and Oosterdam were built by the Italian shipyard Fincantieri Cantieri Navali, not by Kvaerner Masa-Yards.

I thought that the Vista-class ships were built by Fincantieri, but was too lazy to look it up earlier. I know that the new Westerdam is being built there and the fourth Vista-class has already been contracted with Fincantieri. It stands to reason that the first two were built there, too.

I have to admit, I enjoy this topic when it shows up every month or so. I can't wait until it actually has some basis in fact. I would say that best-case, there is a third DCL ship sailing before the end of 2006. Given the way Disney spends money (or resists spending it), and the fact that they are only one month into a new leadership team at the cruise line, I wouldn't expect them to announce a contract for a new ship before the middle of next year, making it a close call as to whether it will be in service before the end of 2006.

I'm not sure I buy the "waiting for the dollar to rebound against the euro" argument. While it makes perfect sense on the surface, does a cruise line pay for a ship up front (i.e. "here's half a billion dollars, go build me a ship"), or would the payments be made in installments as work progresses? If so, the current currency exchange rate is really only a consideration for the down payment, unless DCL can speculate on exchange rate fluctuations a year and a half in advance. The current exchange rate hasn't seemed to affect newbuild orders from Carnival Corp. or RCI. Between these two, I count 17 ships currently on order and/or at various stages of construction.

I'll qualify this by saying that this is my opinion only, based on my admittedly limited knowledge of the shipbuilding and cruise industries, as well as my somewhat less limited knowledge of how the WD Company does business. I have no inside information, nor do I claim to....

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by Lloyd Dobler
I'm not sure I buy the "waiting for the dollar to rebound against the euro" argument. While it makes perfect sense on the surface, does a cruise line pay for a ship up front (i.e. "here's half a billion dollars, go build me a ship"), or would the payments be made in installments as work progresses? If so, the current currency exchange rate is really only a consideration for the down payment, unless DCL can speculate on exchange rate fluctuations a year and a half in advance. The current exchange rate hasn't seemed to affect newbuild orders from Carnival Corp. or RCI. Between these two, I count 17 ships currently on order and/or at various stages of construction.

I'll qualify this by saying that this is my opinion only, based on my admittedly limited knowledge of the shipbuilding and cruise industries, as well as my somewhat less limited knowledge of how the WD Company does business. I have no inside information, nor do I claim to....

Just reporting what was in print, I think it was in the Orlando Centinel and reported on this site. I'd suspect they contract up front and pay in stages.

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

Originally posted by Dean
Just reporting what was in print, I think it was in the Orlando Centinel and reported on this site. I'd suspect they contract up front and pay in stages.

I think Dean was the fifth person in this thread to mention the exchange rate between the dollar and the Euro.

Here's an excerpt from "DISNEY LOOKS TO FRESH IDEAS TO BOOST PARKS, CRUISE LINE," by Todd Pack, Sentinel Staff Writer; Orlando Sentinel; Oct 10, 2003:
<blockquote>Less speculative are plans to grow Disney's cruise business.

The company intends to add a third ship to its fleet, but construction plans are on hold because of an unfavorable exchange rate between the dollar and euro, [Al] Weiss [president of Walt Disney World Resort] said, noting that all four of the shipyards that build cruise ships are in Europe.

"You do some preliminary designs, you go out and get a price for that, and then you can really start the process of looking at the currency exchanges," he said.

"We're in the middle of that process right now, of getting the prices back from the shipyards that would build that. But we won't be able to go forward until you get much closer to parity between the euro and the dollar," Weiss said.

Jay Rasulo, president of Walt Disney Parks and Resorts, said the company may expand its cruise business beyond Florida.

"I am very optimistic about the depth of that market for us, not only here domestically, but ultimately internationally, whether we're talking about the Mediterranean or Asia," he said. "California is obviously a cruise market as well."</blockquote>
I agree with Lloyd Dobler. It seems the the exchange rate is the explanation du jour for why Disney hasn't ordered any ships after the Magic and Wonder. Other cruise lines have ordered many ships over the past five years, and there have been several major orders recently. But Disney seems unwilling to make the large capital investment.

If, as Dean speculated, "they contract up front and pay in stages," then Disney could contract now (in Euros) and make more favorable payments if the dollar strengthens.

 

[Lloyd Dobler]

Originally posted by Dean
Just reporting what was in print, I think it was in the Orlando Centinel and reported on this site. I'd suspect they contract up front and pay in stages.

I'm not at all suggesting that anyone has made this up. I'm aware that it's the company line. I'm just saying I don't think I buy it. Also, Weiss ins't completely correct when he states that all of the shipyards that build cruise ships are in Europe. Mitsubishi in Japan currently building a couple of ships for Princess. I think this is their first foray into the cruise ship building business. That said, I have no idea how the dollar is currently doing vs. the yen. Ingalls yard in Mississippi was in the process of building the first of two ships for AMCV before they went bankrupt, although that required a pretty hefty government subsidy. They hull from the first ship was purchased by NCL and towed to Germany for completion. That ship will be sailing in Hawaii next summer.

 

[zalansky]

When we were on the Wonder 09/28, my friend went to get a manicure and the girl in the spa told her that Disney is in the process of building the biggest cruise ship out there.
Don't shoot the messenger, I am just relaying what my friend was told by a CM.

 

[Lloyd Dobler]

Originally posted by zalansky
When we were on the Wonder 09/28, my friend went to get a manicure and the girl in the spa told her that Disney is in the process of building the biggest cruise ship out there.
Don't shoot the messenger, I am just relaying what my friend was told by a CM.

Not a shot at the messenger, but the spa employees do not even work for the cruise line. They are employees of Steiner's of London, who own the spa contract on most every cruise ship.

Cunard is in the process of building the biggest cruise ship out there, the Queen Mary 2. It will be the biggest until RCI's "ultra-Voyager" is built, scheduled for 2006. The ultra-Voyager ship will be 15% bigger than the current Voyager class, at 160,000 GRT, with the capacity for 3600 passengers. They should start building this one next year.

 

[zalansky]

Like I said, and politely asked....do not shoot the messenger, I was simply stating what my friend was told.
I did NOT state it to be a fact and I am well aware that spa employees are employed by Steiner.
No need to get in a huff....
Everyone, disregard my post and proceed as if I hadn't posted it, I don't feel like getting any more "corrections" from self proclaimed experts...thanks!

 

[Daria]

Cunard is in the process of building the biggest cruise ship out there, the Queen Mary 2. It will be the biggest until RCI's "ultra-Voyager" is built, scheduled for 2006. The ultra-Voyager ship will be 15% bigger than the current Voyager class, at 160,000 GRT, with the capacity for 3600 passengers. They should start building this one next year.

While this is tottally true right after RCI announced there building of the Ultra-Voyager, Princess said they were thinking aobut building "The Ultimate Caribbean Princess" that would be around 180000 GRT. Then after this announcement Carnical Corp. said that they are going to make this a two step process and make a around 140,000 Princess ship and around a 180,000 Carnival ship. I read this on the CC boards, but couldn't it find it on there.

I really hope that Dsiney does decide to build another Cruiseship. Hopefully they do build one htat can sail in cooler weather and sail it to Alaska in the Summer (please from Seattle ). If they did build a new ship I would hope that they expand the teen area. As it is much smaller than on other cruiseships. I was hoping htat when the Magic went into drydock that they would still keep COmmongorunds. If they did this than there could be two teen areas for different ages (13-15, and 16-18). As some people thought that it was innopropriate for young kids to be around older teens. Just my 2cents

 

[Lloyd Dobler]

Originally posted by zalansky
Like I said, and politely asked....do not shoot the messenger, I was simply stating what my friend was told.
I did NOT state it to be a fact and I am well aware that spa employees are employed by Steiner.
No need to get in a huff....
Everyone, disregard my post and proceed as if I hadn't posted it, I don't feel like getting any more "corrections" from self proclaimed experts...thanks!

Like I said, this is not a shot at the messenger. You might be well aware that the spa employees work for Steiner's, others may not. My intent was to point out that spa employees likely have as much inside information as you or I. Please consider my last post an attempted clarification rather than a correction....

As for my being a self-proclaimed expert, if you read my earlier post on this thread you see that I alluded to "my admittedly limited knowledge of the shipbuilding and cruise industries." I would argue that I am a self-proclaimed novice.

 

[SueEllen]

Let's remember to keep this nice. I would hate to see the thread have to be closed.

Sue Ellen

 

[ThreeCircles]

Cunard is in the process of building the biggest cruise ship out there, the Queen Mary 2. It will be the biggest until RCI's "ultra-Voyager" is built, scheduled for 2006. The ultra-Voyager ship will be 15% bigger than the current Voyager class, at 160,000 GRT, with the capacity for 3600 passengers. They should start building this one next year.

As the wise Jgalecpa has often stated, it's not the size that matters.

Unless, of course, one is fishing...

 

[jgalecpa]

As the wise Jgalecpa has often stated, it's not the size that matters.

Ah, Yes Grasshopper.

You have learned wisely.

 

[ThreeCircles]

This was posted on the Walt Disney World News & Rumors page of <a href="http://www.screamscape.com/html/walt_disney_world.html">Screamscape</a> on 11/24/03:

The latest info from the SpyNet claim that Disney may already be putting the plans for a 3rd ship in motion. If the rumors are true the craft has already been designed and they are currently searching bidding it out to the shipyards to get the best price. Once complete, the third ship is expected to be even larger than the previous two and may be used initially for a new 10 day cruise.

Given the demand for the 10-day holiday cruise next year it would seem that this could be a possibility. That way, the Disney Magic could continue the 7-day itineraries, the Wonder could continue the 3/4 day, and the new ship could be used for a new 10-day itinerary.