New Definition of Rental Activity?

[GoingSince1990]

DVC has a simple way to track these transactions because the reservations are always in a numerical order . If I was using a bot they all would show transactions that reflect this quickly and clearly for DVC to determine this commercial activity
. Seems like an easy way to limit it to only so many per year and track the abusers In these types of transactions.

Currently I have 5 small reservations with only my name on the reservation as one guest in room .
I will eventually call member services to add family but this could technically be a bunch of reservations I might decide to rent . I guess that would help differentiate abusers also.
We are innocently using just 1guest/1room to check and grab quickly to not lose availabiliity but it might look suspicious to an automated system monitoring activity…?
Would that be a concern for me ? I have never rented and never will .
Has anybody ever received a letter of warning along with clarification of rules?

You don’t need to call member services to add guests to your reservation, that can be done easily online by selecting to modify. The only time you need to call member services is if you are changing the lead guest (this change can also be made via chat).

 

[JackosinDIS]

This language is not new. Here are Section 12.1.2 and 12.1.3 of the Riviera Declaration (which are consistent with the CFW Declaration), for example:

12.1.2 Except as expressly stated in this Declaration otherwise, use of Vacation Homes or the Common Elements commercial purposes or any purposes other than the personal use described in this Declaration is expressly prohibited.

12.1.3 The Association, through the Board or the Management Company, shall be the sole determiner of any use or activity that does not constitute personal use or constitutes commercial use. For example, the Board or Management Company may conclude that an Owner is engaged in a commercial enterprise as a result of a pattern of rental activity of reserved Vacation Homes or frequent occupancy by others of reserved Vacation Homes, other than an Owner or the Owner's family, use of regular rental or resale advertising, maintaining a rental or resale website, or frequent purchase and resale of Ownership Interests whether in the name of an Owner or those related to such Owner.

Good work spotting that!

 

[Bearval]

The following is an excerpt from the new CFW Master Declaration:

View attachment 830702

It doesn't appear to be in the new POS (yet), but there is now at least one resort with a less ambiguous definition of commercial activity, and it specifically addresses a pattern of renting confirmed reservations (not just points) or frequent occupancy by others of such reserved accommodations. Note also, it says a "pattern" of renting reserved accommodations, not "frequent" renting. @Sandisw @Brian Noble

Also interested in the "creating, maintaining, or frequent use of a rental or resale website" language...

Thoughts?

This will cover companies that buy contracts to rent out points and owners who regularly rent out excess points either by themselves or by using a commercial third party. DVD will know who is renting out points just by seeing who is on the reservations of the contracts , if it is consistently different people and not the owners. With this language in place I for one would definitely would not be renting points thru a third party. I would hate to fly or drive to WDW and be denied a room, I wonder how a third party renter such as David's would handle this if it were to happen to one of their renters?

 

[Bearval]

I would be a tad nervous if I were the proprietor of a DVC renta

The following is an excerpt from the new CFW Master Declaration:

View attachment 830702

It doesn't appear to be in the new POS (yet), but there is now at least one resort with a less ambiguous definition of commercial activity, and it specifically addresses a pattern of renting confirmed reservations (not just points) or frequent occupancy by others of such reserved accommodations. Note also, it says a "pattern" of renting reserved accommodations, not "frequent" renting. @Sandisw @Brian Noble

Also interested in the "creating, maintaining, or frequent use of a rental or resale website" language...

Thoughts?

I wouldn't be surprised if DVD did start enforcing this aggressively. It is in my opinion a great marketing move. By "killing" the commercial rental market they will drive a portion of these people to either book a room at a Disney resort, not necessarily to a villa but this will cause a drive in demand for all rooms at Disney and will allow them to increase room pricing. A portion may also buy into a DVC membership either direct or resale if they "have" to stay in a villa . In any case this would also drive up demand and the pricing of resale contracts.

 

[Bearval]

My guess is yes because all they are doing is further defining in clearer language on whst constitues renting for something other than personal use.

We already have a contract saying you can’t rent for commercial purposes so this simply explains what that definition is a bit better.

I believe you are correct, if the "new" language is an explanation defining existing language of a clause in the contract it can be added as a amendment. Of course you can always sue if they did this but I don't think you would have much chance of winning especially if a third party agency was the one to sue.

 

[eticketplease]

A portion may also buy into a DVC membership either direct or resale if they "have" to stay in a villa .

If you are a single parent with 6 minors wouldn't you "have" to stay in a villa? You would not have an option of booking adjoining rooms since there would only be one adult correct? I thought the villas were the largest accommodations?

 

[Bearval]

If you are a single parent with 6 minors wouldn't you "have" to stay in a villa? You would not have an option of booking adjoining rooms since there would only be one adult correct? I thought the villas were the largest accommodations?

I believe at least All Star Music and Art of Imagination have family suites.

 

[GoingSince1990]

I wouldn't be surprised if DVD did start enforcing this aggressively. It is in my opinion a great marketing move. By "killing" the commercial rental market they will drive a portion of these people to either book a room at a Disney resort, not necessarily to a villa but this will cause a drive in demand for all rooms at Disney and will allow them to increase room pricing. A portion may also buy into a DVC membership either direct or resale if they "have" to stay in a villa . In any case this would also drive up demand and the pricing of resale contracts.

On the flip side, “don’t worry about not being able to use your points, you can always rent them out and that is allowed in the contract” has been a powerful selling point by DVC guides. People worried about sometimes not being able to use their purchase due to scheduling or health reasons could be deterred from purchasing by an aggressive anti-rental policy.

 

[eticketplease]

I believe at least All Star Music and Art of Imagination have family suites.

Yes they do but only sleep a maximum of 6.

Using the example of 1 adult and 6 children. (I used 9 and below to show they are kids in the real world AND Disney World lol)

They was one room at Contemporary and one at AKL priced around $2k. On the AKL site they listed a 2 bedroom villa for $800ish. Those were the per night costs.

That is why I was asking about “having to” get a villa. So I guess you don’t “have” to but our hypothetical family would rather spend 10 nights at WDW than 5 for cheaper even if they were renting the Villa straight from Disney.

 

[mamaofsix]

Yes they do but only sleep a maximum of 6.

Using the example of 1 adult and 6 children. (I used 9 and below to show they are kids in the real world AND Disney World lol)

They was one room at Contemporary and one at AKL priced around $2k. On the AKL site they listed a 2 bedroom villa for $800ish. Those were the per night costs.

That is why I was asking about “having to” get a villa. So I guess you don’t “have” to but our hypothetical family would rather spend 10 nights at WDW than 5 for cheaper even if they were renting the Villa straight from Disney.

Feel free to use me as your hypothetical example.

We cannot fit in anything smaller than a 2-bedroom. We have never rented DVC because I was worried about the unknowns and wanted control over our bookings. We rented vacation homes offsite until we could afford to buy DVC ourselves.

One aspect not discussed here: if Disney cracks down on the rental market, it may not lead to more direct sales. It might simply lead to more guests staying offsite.

 

[Sandisw]

On the flip side, “don’t worry about not being able to use your points, you can always rent them out and that is allowed in the contract” has been a powerful selling point by DVC guides. People worried about sometimes not being able to use their purchase due to scheduling or health reasons could be deterred from purchasing by an aggressive anti-rental policy.

Really? I have never had any DVC person mention renting. I am surprised.

 

[Bearval]

Feel free to use me as your hypothetical example.

We cannot fit in anything smaller than a 2-bedroom. We have never rented DVC because I was worried about the unknowns and wanted control over our bookings. We rented vacation homes offsite until we could afford to buy DVC ourselves.

One aspect not discussed here: if Disney cracks down on the rental market, it may not lead to more direct sales. It might simply lead to more guests staying offsite.

One aspect not discussed here: if Disney cracks down on the rental market, it may not lead to more direct sales. It might simply lead to more guests staying offsite.

That maybe true but there will be those that will still pay the $$$$$ to stay on Disney property and those who were renting year after year that will bite the bullet and buy into DVC either direct or resale.

 

[theMoreDisneytheBetter]

If you are a single parent with 6 minors wouldn't you "have" to stay in a villa? You would not have an option of booking adjoining rooms since there would only be one adult correct? I thought the villas were the largest accommodations?

My guess is that this scenario represents a VERY small subset of Disney visitors, and in their mind the benefit of killing commercial renting will more than offset the few families that might be negatively impacted by this change.

 

[mamaofsix]

Really? I have never had any DVC person mention renting. I am surprised.

They brought up renting with us during the sales pitch at Riviera a few years ago.

 

[mamaofsix]

My guess is that this scenario represents a VERY small subset of Disney visitors, and in their mind the benefit of killing commercial renting will more than offset the few families that might be negatively impacted by this change.

Another subset are those who travel with grandparents or extended family - and don't want to be split up. I would say there are a lot of multi-generational guests who rent 2 bedrooms and grand villas.

 

[theMoreDisneytheBetter]

Another subset are those who travel with grandparents or extended family - and don't want to be split up. I would say there are a lot of multi-generational guests who rent 2 bedrooms and grand villas.

For sure. We are a 2BD family - and rapidly becoming a 2BD + studio or a 3BD family.

I was just saying that saying that commercial renting should continue to facilitate a single parent with 6 kids under 9 seems a bit far fetched.

 

[Sandisw]

I am going to add another piece...just look at how much the new language is being discussed here....and I am sure on other sites...the buzz alone may be enough to curtail some of it...

At the very least, DVC is getting the message out there without having to do much...and as I said, IMO, this new language change is not about the individual owners out there who may be pushing the limits, but rather to curtail the ones, like brokers, who have set up multiple memberships and ownerships to increae rentals...and why the old 20 reservations rule to trigger a review...was no longer a good metric..people found a way around it.

 

[eticketplease]

I was just saying that saying that commercial renting should continue to facilitate a single parent with 6 kids under 9 seems a bit far fetched.

I agree it is far fetched but I’m sure there are cases for it. I only put that out there as a reply to the “have to have a villa”. In that case they did have a few two bedroom suites that were only at deluxe properties. I would say that situation would qualify as “having to have” at those prices and slim availability.

I would even say the ones bringing extended grandparents wouldn’t “have to have” as they are adults and could book adjoining rooms but it is certainly a nice option for grandparents to stay in the same villa.

Our family qualifies as wanting a villa instead of a room but then again I figure most of us with DVC are like this as well.

We certainly don’t need a 1/2 bedroom for 3-5 people but it helps us have our own space and allows us to actually enjoy the trip.

 

[hertamaniac]

I'm failing to understand the potential effects, if any, in our situation. We are renters that have only stayed on pre-booked reservations. We wait until a contract/booking is within 1-2 weeks and is reduced before committing. This allows us to explore DVC 2BR villas without a contract due to our location and flexibility. So far, it's worked pretty well.

But, this newer language does have me wondering.

 

[Sandisw]

I'm failing to understand the potential effects, if any, in our situation. We are renters that have only stayed on pre-booked reservations. We wait until a contract/booking is within 1-2 weeks and is reduced before committing. This allows us to explore DVC 2BR villas without a contract due to our location and flexibility. So far, it's worked pretty well.

But, this newer language does have me wondering.

It’s only going to be an issue for a renter if the owner who booked your reservation is found in violation of the commercial renting clause of the contract.

But, it could end up tricky because as a renter, you may not know that. We have plenty of owners here who rent a lot and all the time and depending on how DVC decided to view those memberships, renters could be out of luck.

I won’t be surprised though to start seeing fewer confirmed bookings on website because ir does make it easier for DVC to figure out whose membership those are on.