New credit card guarantees. Restaurant list, policy & common questions in 1st post

[larryz]

I don't have a problem with Disney trying to guarantee people will show for reservations. But they'd better BE reservations and not best-effort, next-available-table "ADRs" -- the first time I show up for a "no-show-fee" dinner and I get told it'll be 45 minutes, me and the manager, we're gonna be having some words.

 

[cluvsdisney]

How about ADRs on free dining?

They will be treated the same as any other ADR. A credit card hold will be required for the restaurants listed on the first page of this thread and subject to a cancellation/no show fee as described.

 

[trainingupmy4princes]

Why should WDW compensate you for charges resulting from illness? Unless it's a documented hospitalization, everyone who would be charged under this policy would claim illness. That's what travel insurance covers.

Not everyone has travel insurance and I don't think a lot of travel insurances cover a cancel fee for an ADR. I could be wrong.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

All you need to do is read this thread to see why the policy has changed. I didn't realize there were so many potential reasons to cancel an ADR at the last minute or not show.

I also don't see the big distinction so many are making in ADR hoarders & no shows. I agree the hoarders negatively affect us the customer more. From WDW's standpoint, an empty table is an empty table. It really doesn't matter to them why it's empty. The fact that it is costs them money. I'm sure they're just as interested in stopping the no shows as they are the hoarders.

It seems fairly obvious to me that they only want people who will definitely show up to their ADR, unless there's a serious illness or major injury, to make them. Most who are seriously ill won't care about losing $10/person. They'll be more concerned about their sick loved one. Anyone seriously injured on WDW property won't need to worry about cancellation fees. They will be taken care of. From my many years of going to WDW with people of all ages, I don't think either of these cases happen frequently to the large majority. They're definitely the exception not the rule.

It's the people who can foresee a dozen different reasons for cancelling at the last minute or not showing that they'd rather call for an ADR or walk-up, when they're 100% sure they'll be dining there. They want to fill the tables. From a business standpoint it makes more sense to fill them will walk-ups than with people who plan to show up, but may have something come up. Reasons, other than the 2 major ones above, are why most wouldn't show or they'd cancel at the last minute. Those are things that could be planned around, if they were give the importance a financial commitment usually receives. It may not be important to you, but it is to their bottom line. I can see why they wouldn't want people committing to ADRS, if they weren't going to plan their trip to assure they would definitely be at the restaurants at the appropriate time. If a guest wants more flexibility on vacation, or foresees potential problems, it's better for Disney, if they don't make ADRs. It's better to walk up, when everyone is hungry, well rested, feels good, etc. Unfortunately, life is about choices. Everyone needs to make the responsible one for their family, even if it's not the choice you'd prefer. I know I'd like to eat at 1/2 the restaurants on every trip, but I also know my stomach won't hold that much food. I hate having to choose what to keep & what to eliminate. It's not the fun choice, but it's the responsible one. (Darn responsibilities. )

I've read several times that people think to solve the problem they should just give tables away, if there's a no show. Think about that from a financial standpoint. For every 15 minutes a table sits empty, that's a 1/4th to 1/6th of a table turn (depending on how fast one eats). Multiply that by several tables & you're bleeding money. They want the tables turned as fast as they can be cleared. If they know the people with ADRs will definitely show, they then know how many walk-ups they can accept to accomplish that.

WDW has definitely done things in the past few years I don't agree with. In dining alone, I think the quality has declined while the prices continue to rise. To me, that's greed. However, people brought this policy change on themselves by making a commitment & not keeping it. If you don't want to commit to something 100%, you're better off not making the commitment at all. I can totally understand wanting more flexibility on vacation. Things do come up. If you can foresee that potentially happening, it probably makes more sense to book much less ADRs & do more walk-ups. If you owned the business, you could probably see you're not WDW's ideal ADR maker.

No offense to anyone. It just seems obvious to me that WDW has probably heard the excuses given on this thread so many times they've decided they need to do something to eliminate them.

 

[Snurk71]

That's a very key word. Walt Disney World is twice the size of Manhattan, and reasonably self-contained. Disneyland, and 99% of the restaurants in the outside world are in the outside world. It's easy for people to go to the next restaurant. At DLR, people can just walk down the street and have a wide variety of choices.

I think you just supported my position. In case you missed it, my post was a response that inferred that WDW needs to know an exact headcount every night to pay their 60K employees. WDW has a captive audience of customers that DL (though I don't agree that many people wander across the street - we never have in about 6 trips, and you forgot to include Universal in your comment - I don't think you can walk across the street there to the next restaurant there) or NYC don't have. So canceling a reservation with 3 hours notice should make it easy for WDW to replace - all those walk-ups and non-planners will have a place to eat now.

DL, US, NYC, and the rest of the outside world have a much harder time projecting capacity demands than WDW should. And they're surviving somehow.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

I don't have a problem with Disney trying to guarantee people will show for reservations. But they'd better BE reservations and not best-effort, next-available-table "ADRs" -- the first time I show up for a "no-show-fee" dinner and I get told it'll be 45 minutes, me and the manager, we're gonna be having some words.

I hope you make it around to all the restaurants to straighten out all the managers, before I get there. A true reservation would be nice. Thanks for taking one for the team, by the way.

 

[Snurk71]

For every 15 minutes a table sits empty, that's a 1/4th to 1/6th of a table turn (depending on how fast one eats). Multiply that by several tables & you're bleeding money. They want the tables turned as fast as they can be cleared.

I could be wrong, but everything I've read and personally experienced indicates this is not how Disney runs its restaurants. That's why they go out of the way to tell you that you are not making a reservation in the truest sense of the word where a table is held for you, and that you'll get the next table when it opens up.

If they know the people with ADRs will definitely show, they then know how many walk-ups they can accept to accomplish that.

They can do this with a 3 hour cancellation too. They don't need 24 hours to determine this.

 

[cluvsdisney]

All you need to do is read this thread to see why the policy has changed. I didn't realize there were so many potential reasons to cancel an ADR at the last minute or not show.

I also don't see the big distinction so many are making in ADR hoarders & no shows. I agree the hoarders negatively affect us the customer more. From WDW's standpoint, an empty table is an empty table. It really doesn't matter to them why it's empty. The fact that it is costs them money. I'm sure they're just as interested in stopping the no shows as they are the hoarders.

It seems fairly obvious to me that they only want people who will definitely show up to their ADR, unless there's a serious illness or major injury, to make them. Most who are seriously ill won't care about losing $10/person. They'll be more concerned about their sick loved one. Anyone seriously injured on WDW property won't need to worry about cancellation fees. They will be taken care of. From my many years of going to WDW with people of all ages, I don't think either of these cases happen frequently to the large majority. They're definitely the exception not the rule.

It's the people who can foresee a dozen different reasons for cancelling at the last minute or not showing that they'd rather call for an ADR or walk-up, when they're 100% sure they'll be dining there. They want to fill the tables. From a business standpoint it makes more sense to fill them will walk-ups than with people who plan to show up, but may have something come up. Reasons, other than the 2 major ones above, are why most wouldn't show or they'd cancel at the last minute. Those are things that could be planned around, if they were give the importance a financial commitment usually receives. It may not be important to you, but it is to their bottom line. I can see why they wouldn't want people committing to ADRS, if they weren't going to plan their trip to assure they would definitely be at the restaurants at the appropriate time. If a guest wants more flexibility on vacation, or foresees potential problems, it's better for Disney, if they don't make ADRs. It's better to walk up, when everyone is hungry, well rested, feels good, etc. Unfortunately, life is about choices. Everyone needs to make the responsible one for their family, even if it's not the choice you'd prefer. I know I'd like to eat at 1/2 the restaurants on every trip, but I also know my stomach won't hold that much food. I hate having to choose what to keep & what to eliminate. It's not the fun choice, but it's the responsible one. (Darn responsibilities. )

I've read several times that people think to solve the problem they should just give tables away, if there's a no show. Think about that from a financial standpoint. For every 15 minutes a table sits empty, that's a 1/4th to 1/6th of a table turn (depending on how fast one eats). Multiply that by several tables & you're bleeding money. They want the tables turned as fast as they can be cleared. If they know the people with ADRs will definitely show, they then know how many walk-ups they can accept to accomplish that.

WDW has definitely done things in the past few years I don't agree with. In dining alone, I think the quality has declined while the prices continue to rise. To me, that's greed. However, people brought this policy change on themselves by making a commitment & not keeping it. If you don't want to commit to something 100%, you're better off not making the commitment at all. I can totally understand wanting more flexibility on vacation. Things do come up. If you can foresee that potentially happening, it probably makes more sense to book much less ADRs & do more walk-ups. If you owned the business, you could probably see you're not WDW's ideal ADR maker.

No offense to anyone. It just seems obvious to me that WDW has probably heard the excuses given on this thread so many times they've decided they need to do something to eliminate them.

All of this would make sense if Disney held tables for people with ADRs but they don't. An ADR only gets your name on the wait list when you check in. As tables become available, they seat appropriately sized parties to those tables. If someone doesn't show up, they go to the next name on the list.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

I think you just supported my position. In case you missed it, my post was a response that inferred that WDW needs to know an exact headcount every night to pay their 60K employees. WDW has a captive audience of customers that DL (though I don't agree that many people wander across the street - we never have in about 6 trips, and you forgot to include Universal in your comment - I don't think you can walk across the street there to the next restaurant there) or NYC don't have. So canceling a reservation with 3 hours notice should make it easy for WDW to replace - all those walk-ups and non-planners will have a place to eat now.

DL, US, NYC, and the rest of the outside world have a much harder time projecting capacity demands than WDW should. And they're surviving somehow.

Not to start a US vs. WDW thread, but USO also doesn't give away food or offer their TS restaurants as a package, so their restaurants aren't filled to capacity & above. They've obviously chosen to go in different directions where dining is concerned. Which direction you prefer, is a personal choice.

 

[trainingupmy4princes]

I'm not sure if people notice the new policy doesn't apply to all restaurants at WDW (because it does apply to all the uber-popular and uber-expensive ones).

The policy can be avoided entirely by booking restaurants that aren't on the list. and as Cheshire Figment pointed out when he first posted the list, it doesn't include any World Showcase restaurants other than Le Cellier and Akershus (which had a guarantee already). The World Showcase restaurants are still popular.

The problem is the list includes all Character meals which for some families is a big deal. And families are the most likely to have someone come down sick. All the TS are overpriced and the quality isn't any better than an Applebee's but at least at a CM I get the kids autographs and pics without another line. KWIM. I certainly wouldn't want to pay those prices for a Chinese place that's no more unique than the one in my town. And yes we like some of the more unique or fun non character places but 80% of our ADR's are CMs. I think a lot of families are similar hence the reason CP or CM is so hard to get.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

I could be wrong, but everything I've read and personally experienced indicates this is not how Disney runs its restaurants. That's why they go out of the way to tell you that you are not making a reservation in the truest sense of the word where a table is held for you, and that you'll get the next table when it opens up.

This is what some people on this thread have suggested they do. I was offering an explanation for why this wouldn't be a solution from WDW's standpoint.




They can do this with a 3 hour cancellation too. They don't need 24 hours to determine this.

3 hours wouldn't work for early morning ADRs. I'm sure it would be very confusing for all involved, if they implemented different cancellation limits for certain ADRs.

 

[Snurk71]

I don't have a problem with Disney trying to guarantee people will show for reservations. But they'd better BE reservations and not best-effort, next-available-table "ADRs" -- the first time I show up for a "no-show-fee" dinner and I get told it'll be 45 minutes, me and the manager, we're gonna be having some words.

You're hitting a part of why many of us are frustrated. In the balancing act of trade (we're paying for a service and goods), the scale seems to be shifting more and more to Disney's side. Higher prices, lower quality, less variety, smaller portions, now penalties for missing a reservation that really isn't a reservation. Every time I've had dinner at 1900 PF after 7:00 I can guarantee I'll have at least a 30 minute wait, most of the time it's at least 45. If I experience this kind of wait on a reservation in the real world, good restaurants will be overly apologetic and usually comp something (drinks, appetizer, or dessert) - without any prompting. But people seem to accept it at Disney - not sure why.

At some point the balancing scale becomes too one-sided, maybe this is the weight that is tipping it for some. Disney is supposedly in the hospitality industry, isn't it?

 

[kaytieeldr]

I think you just supported my position. In case you missed it, my post was a response that inferred that WDW needs to know an exact headcount every night to pay their 60K employees. WDW has a captive audience of customers that DL (though I don't agree that many people wander across the street - we never have in about 6 trips, and you forgot to include Universal in your comment - I don't think you can walk across the street there to the next restaurant there) or NYC don't have. So canceling a reservation with 3 hours notice should make it easy for WDW to replace - all those walk-ups and non-planners will have a place to eat now.

DL, US, NYC, and the rest of the outside world have a much harder time projecting capacity demands than WDW should. And they're surviving somehow.

It's not just a matter of projecting capacity. They're also trying to serve and please as many Guests as possible - and they can't easily do that when people hoard reservations, or book one and don't show up & don't cancel.


Just for general information, a writer/speaker can't infer anything; they can only imply. it's the listener/reader who infers (or doesn't ).

 

[Snurk71]

3 hours wouldn't work for early morning ADRs. I'm sure it would be very confusing for all involved, if they implemented different cancellation limits for certain ADRs.

Why wouldn't it? You can still wake up and check for open ADRs for breakfast. I will give you that you won't have walk-ups, but this is for what, the occasional hour of a few park restaurants. And in my experience, they're not fully filling the opening hour anyway - that schedule a gradual restaurant fill.

And if the rule is actually going to be cancellation the prior day a some hav said (instead of a true 24 hours), you'll have the same situation with breakfast availability as if the cancellation period was 3 hours. Granted, you might lose the ADRs that would have been made from 1:00 - 5:00 am. But I'll put $20 that that number isn't very high.

 

[Snurk71]

Just for general information, a writer/speaker can't infer anything; they can only imply. it's the listener/reader who infers (or doesn't ).

Not that we need to derail things with a grammar debate (this is a message board with all kinds of spelling and grammar missteps), but that's not a 100% rule.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/infer

I agree that I normally would have used the term "imply" though.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

All of this would make sense if Disney held tables for people with ADRs but they don't. An ADR only gets your name on the wait list when you check in. As tables become available, they seat appropriately sized parties to those tables. If someone doesn't show up, they go to the next name on the list.

It's been documented many times that people have seen walk-ups turned away, while tables were sitting empty. I didn't realize how often it happened, until I saw people discuss it here. Yes, I've seen it happen, but I really didn't think about it much, until then. If I owned the business, & saw this happen often (or even occasionally), I'd do everything in my power to eliminate the problem. I can see how controlling the amount of no shows will help get the restaurants on a better schedule. They'll have no excuse for overbooking heavily. If they continue to do that, then we'll have something to complain about.

 

[Snurk71]

It's been documented many times that people have seen walk-ups turned away, while tables were sitting empty. I didn't realize how often it happened, until I saw people discuss it here. Yes, I've seen it happen, but I really didn't think about it much, until then. If I owned the business, & saw this happen often (or even occasionally), I'd do everything in my power to eliminate the problem. I can see how controlling the amount of no shows will help get the restaurants on a better schedule. They'll have no excuse for overbooking heavily. If they continue to do that, then we'll have something to complain about.

It has also been reported that this has been a function of staffing too, where the restaurant didn't have the appropriate staffing level to support all of the tables in a restaurant. We don't know to what extent tables are open due to staffing vs. holding tables for possible ADRs. Most seem to be concluding it's because Disney is holding the tables open.

 

[PirateD]

I'm new to the discussion but just wanted to add that I don't like the feel of the new policy. It's hard enough just trying to figure out where to eat 180-days in advance and now we have to worry about penalties. My family doesn't live or die by our ADR's. We like to book a couple of character dinners when we go for fun, but the retail cost is soaring. While we enjoy the dinners, we're starting to feel that they aren't worth the cost. Now factor in the added stress of getting charged if we don't make the reservation, and it does make me personally not want to book them anymore. I was already on the fence just because of the cost. Nobody wants to be stressed out while they're on vacation, and we have had things occassionally happen (both good and bad) to prevent us from getting to couple of dinners in the past.

I just think that we are going to back to touring Disney the old school and simple way without the reservations. We can eat some CS and bring some food from home. I know that Disney can "replace" me, but that's OK. I'm not looking to bring them down. I just want to go and enjoy my trip. I do wonder if I'm feeling like it's not worth it, than do other Disney fans too? In this economy it's going to be hard for Disney to replace all of us. The good news is it will be easier for the rest of you to book your ADR's.

 

[trainingupmy4princes]

If you are traveling with a small group like a family of 4, it is very possible that no one will get sick, but when I travel with my whole family, eight to ten people (which we do once a year), without fail one of us gets sick, hurt, tired, cranky, hungover or otherwise indisposed at least once during a vacation.

When I plan our trips I plan on one sit down meal a day, and we frequent the popular restaurants on the list. I can think of very few times when we have scrapped an ADR entirely, but I can think of lots of times that at least one of our group didn't make it to a meal. I am just not keen on being charged when one person out of ten can't make it, or having to give up on the meal entirely.

It is going to make our vacations less fun if I have to play the bad cop role and force everyone to adhere to the dining schedule or be hit with a big penalty.

My 25 year old brother can have all the best intentions of joining us for a 9 am breakfast at chef mickeys when I ask him 6 months prior, but all that might fly out the window when he gets a few beers in at Jellyrolls the night before the ADR.

Exactly we're a family of 7 with 5 kids if someone on the plane is sick or someone in line etc. There is a high possibility that one of our kiddos will pick up a 24-48 hour bug in a 10 day trip. We've had it happen twice in 5 trips.

 

[Snurk71]

It's not just a matter of projecting capacity. They're also trying to serve and please as many Guests as possible - and they can't easily do that when people hoard reservations, or book one and don't show up & don't cancel.

Yes, that is what the string was about - projecting capacity to pay the 60K employees (that was the OP's contention that I was replying to). You jumped in and veered off the point at hand though. I can post the succession of discussion if you'd like.