New credit card guarantees. Restaurant list, policy & common questions in 1st post

[Lewisc]

I'll comment for the benefit of anyone who didn't read the entire thread and might otherwise think you're making points which haven't already been discussed.

The numbers have been posted in this thread, coming courtesy of Touring Plans. The no-show rates average between 10%-33%, depending on the month (10% is in July and 33% in January). Some have questioned those figures. But I have a hard time thinking that they would publish those figures in their book (The Unoffical Guide) and on their website unless they knew they were accurate. 10% is a very high rate, 33% is absurdly high. Then there is the question of variance. All we can do is speculate, but if the avergage for the month of January is 33%, then that must mean there are many days where the number is actually higher (possibly much higher). I think that constitues a HUGE problem for Disney - and would for any business.

It's called the UNOFFICIAL GUIDE. Disney doesn't even release official theme park attendance statistics. They certainly don't release proprietary and confidential information regarding number of ADRs made, number no-shows etc. Sorry but those numbers don't even support your points.

High no-shows, and high variances, in the month of January makes a lot of sense to many of us. Winter storms results in guests having to delay their vacations by hours, sometimes even a day or two. Winter storms result in some guests cancelling their trip altogether. Guests observing empty tables in January may be less likely to cancel an ADR then a guest during a peak travel time when a guest may see the need to free an ADR for another guest. I've never cancelled a January trip due to weather. Do the CMs who process your resort cancellation ask if you have ADRs that need to be cancelled? Do you think some guests might think Disney automatically takes care of it? I call and tell the CM I'm weathered in and need to change my trip. Not a reach to think Disney should assume I won't be dining.

10%. That sounds about right for guests on a vacation. Shouldn't be an issue handling it by either overbooking or accommodating walk ups.

People can choose to believe those numbers aren't accurate (most likely because they just don't want to). That's fine with me. And even if you cut those numbers in half, those would still be high.

And as for the actual numbers versus what they overbooked...you asked what "if they overbook 25% and only 10% no-show"? Well then they have another huge problem in that scenario - huge backups and long waits to be seated. Then everyone will be complaining about that. They can't win no matter what. That's why it's my opinion that thier ultimate goal is to reduce the no-show rates and the variance within it to better predict on a daily basis how many no-shows they will have. This will allow them to run a far more efficient operation (including but not limited to better staffing/supply ordering/more accurate [over]booking) - which should all result in a better guest experience.

The figures are made up. OK they're probably based on anecdotal conversations some of Unofficial Guide people had with some CMs in restaurants. The point is they're not based on official statistics. Without knowing day to day variances as well as circumstances which might lead to those variances they tell us nothing.

Huge backups and lines could be a result of guests spending more time dining then expected. How many people try stretch out an early ADR at the CG so they can stay for fireworks? Some of think one of the reasons Disney dropped the appetizer from the DDP was to increase restaurant turnover. Disney could have offered guests the option of an appetizer or dessert. Good chance people at the table would split appetizers and desserts. The appetizer could have been dropped to choice of soup or salad. Price fixed dinners are normally 3 courses but don't include a wide range of appetizers. Choice of soup or salad is common. Logical to think the issue was turnover as much as food cost savings.

We know Disney instituted peak surcharges as a way to make more $$$. I'll speculate the "bean counters" look at the no-shows as a new revenue source.

I'm curious, but I understand I'll never know, what causes variances.

1. Weather related?
2. Related to seasonal sickness?
3. Transportation related? Buses run slow due to WDW events (marathon).
4. Empty restaurants? Does that mean guests don't see the need to cancel? Does that mean guests are able to score a walk up at an alternate restaurant and don't see the need to cancel the unused ADR?
5. Crowd related? Long lines means guests spend time on line for an attraction rather then dining. If you believe the statistics then this isn't the case. No-shows are lower during peak months.
   

I don't think "guest rudeness" as a reason would have large variances.

 

[Colleen27]

I'm confused about the terrible phone & computer systems? I know they don't have a great website. Honestly, I don't even like using it, although I have made & cancelled ADR's on it.

When I'm at Disney, however, & want to make or cancel an ADR I usually do it from my room on the resort phone or at the pool from the courtesy phone. I usually get through to dining with no problems at all. Are you talking about wait times on the phone sometimes?

There are two issues that impede cancellation. Wait time on the phone is one. The last time I cancelled an ADR on the fly (in March) I called WDW-Dine while waiting for a bus at Epcot. That call took long enough for the bus to arrive, load, and unload; by the time I hung up I was sitting on a bench in the Pop Century lobby waiting for the call to end so I could hit the mug refill station on the way back to our room.

The online system is the other. Right now I cannot cancel using Firefox or Chrome from my desktop, and my pre-Android web-enabled phone cannot even access the dining site. An Android or iPhone can book ADRs but generally cannot cancel them because Internet Explorer is the only browser that can reliably navigate cancellation process.

And to help this situation, they've added another phone number... That is not yet working reliably and routes to the same high-volume/long-hold-time call centers as the existing numbers.

 

[Colleen27]

This is just my opinion, but I have never understand why guests think they're getting such a great deal when they are paying rack rate for a room. I guess if you work the numbers you might be paying a bit less if you're paying rack rate & then getting free dining, but I, personally, don't think it's an awesome deal. Again, JMO!

It depends entirely on resort choice and party size; for many people the room only discounts are better but you seldom see those dragged out in defense of every cutback and price hike Disney makes. No one is saying "the monorail hours had to be cut because of all the people staying at those resorts with a 40% off code" but free dining is The Official DIS Scapegoat™.

 

[Colleen27]

I would think that Disney will eventually not allow these ressies to be made with a prepaid card. I mean cant you see people doing that with a card that has ten bucks on it. Ya I would love it too but Disney would not be able to get thier revenue in that way. And this all boils down to them needing to bring in more revenue. They have to pay for free dining somehow.

I'm not sure they'd be willing to open that can of worms, particularly since you could accomplish the exact same thing with a debit card (not enough in the account to cover the charge, no overdraft protection - I maintain a separate account for travel and online shopping with exactly those conditions to reduce the risk of fraudulent charges and strictly limit how much cash could be tied up if the number is compromised). I'm fairly sure that even with Disney's "you are replaceable" philosophy on guest service these days, they wouldn't want to outright exclude the growing number of American families that don't have/use credit cards.

 

[Lewisc]

It depends entirely on resort choice and party size; for many people the room only discounts are better but you seldom see those dragged out in defense of every cutback and price hike Disney makes. No one is saying "the monorail hours had to be cut because of all the people staying at those resorts with a 40% off code" but free dining is The Official DIS Scapegoat™.

Free dining, instead of deeply discounted rooms, means more guests are on a dining plan. Dining Plan guests are told to make ADRs, or run the risk of not being able to secure a TS meal, at "normal" meal time, at a restaurant near where the guest is staying or touring at meal time. I'll speculate DDP guests make more ADRs per vacation then a typical guest not on a dining plan.

DDP vacation. I'll make enough ADRs to cover my TS credits. "Regular" vacation. Maybe half. Maybe some dinners will be QS. Maybe non-Disney restaurant (S/D, DTD). Take my chances with a walk up or last minute ADR.

 

[SLJ6974]

I'm not sure they'd be willing to open that can of worms, particularly since you could accomplish the exact same thing with a debit card (not enough in the account to cover the charge, no overdraft protection - I maintain a separate account for travel and online shopping with exactly those conditions to reduce the risk of fraudulent charges and strictly limit how much cash could be tied up if the number is compromised). I'm fairly sure that even with Disney's "you are replaceable" philosophy on guest service these days, they wouldn't want to outright exclude the growing number of American families that don't have/use credit cards.

So what is going to happen when people place a good numbrr of adrs with a prepaid card that has ten bucks on it and they fail to show up to some of the adrs. Im sayin that Disney will only lose out on money for so long and they will change it.

 

[Cafeen]

I agree. But it seems to me that the problem is how is Disney supposed to accurately predict what percentage to overbook when the no-show rates most likely fluctuate wildly from day to day?

Do they fluctuate wildly though? We don't know that and can only guess. I'd obviously guess at some fluctuation, but the source info is suspect at best as it stands and I certainly wouldn't be putting any faith in those numbers to start with (much less publishing them, but that's not up to me ).

In writing the book below, it also begs the question, do the numbers created by UG include partial parties? Are they counting a party of 1 that had an ADR for 2 as 1 no show? There's just too many questions about the numbers to allow them to hold up under any rational thought.

The problem isn't actually no shows, and I think this bears exploring. No shows are NOT the actual problem. No shows are an EFFECT of the problem. The root of the problem lies in Disney's system as it is. There are too many issues with it to allow for any sort of accurate prediction on actual no show rates. This stems from the 180 day thing (though, I do prefer it, but can see how it is problematic), the technical side of the website, the call center CMs lack of training, and poorly implemented subsystems of the whole ADR thing in the first place.

Several systems could be developed on Disney's side to reduce the root issues in the first place:

• Create and implement better user matching. Match based on names, numbers, email accounts, and site logins to try and find those attempting to get around the system. When the system finds a match, flag it but don't cancel.
• Have CMs capture the flagged matches and contact the guest about potential conflicts. The CM would then resolve the issue right there, whether it's by cancelling extra reservations, or flagging them as not the same person so they will no longer be contacted about them. (Yes, there's room for abuse here, but the direct personal contact is harder to abuse than the impersonal computer system).
• Adjust the online system to be more browser friendly. In other words, stop coding to MSIE standards and start coding to W3C standards!
• Fix whatever the session/cookie problem is that prevents proper authentication
• Fix the table-size issue that has persisted in the dining system for years. Availability for 1 should equal availability for 2, 3 for 4, 5 for 6. Right now, this isn't the case. Alternatively (and easier/cheaper), block the guest numbers together with radio buttons/dropdowns. So 1-2, 3-4, 5-6 would be options, then add an "Other" where they can specify a larger party.
• Expand the limitation from a 3hr window (1.5 on each side) to an 8 hour window (4hr on each side) (This is the auto cancel thing when you make new ADRs in the system).
• Create a "waitlist" system secondary to ADRs. On the day of dining, someone can be put on a waitlist that will automatically call them if something opens up. This would tie together the walk-up system with the 3hr cancellation window, thus allowing Disney to be able to estimate if they'll have a filler for that cancellation and better judge the amount of people that will likely be dining. (Coding for this would not be difficult)
• Release park schedules out 1 month before ADRs open up
• Place an express line at Guest Services for dining issues, either those looking for ADRs, those cancelling ADRs, or those wanting to be waitlisted
• ...

These are just some of the steps that I would have taken first if it were up to me. These address issues with the system that leads to no shows, rather than no shows themselves. This is akin to treating a disease, whereas the current system treats the symptoms.

Of course, after these (and other) steps were taken, if no shows were still an issue, then more drastic measures should be looked into. I just think that they went the "easy" route and proved they don't give much thought to their customers the way it was handled.

So, for those that skimmed (I admit, I probably would too ), the basic premise is that no shows are not the actual problem, rather the effect of the problem. A better solution would have addressed the problems inherent within the system itself first, before penalizing no shows financially should have occurred. And that if no shows were still a problem after the system was improved considerably, then (and only then) it would be time for more drastic measures such as the one applied. The fact that Disney skipped the interim steps says to me that they don't care about their guests and this was not about guest experience one bit, just about the money and putting all the blame on the customers.

This is where I disagree. I admit wholeheartedly that I can only guess at the real stats, but I think this policy has a good chance to do exactly what Disney wants.

I compare it to fastpass. It's clear that fastpass works best if guests return between the times on the fastpass. You could make the argument that Disney's written policy is that guests are supposed to come back between those times. However, we all know that late fastpasses are accepted anytime after the starting time. So why not just print the starting time? Because Disney knows most people follow the rules. They will police themselves unless they know differently. Yet, the time also allows Disney to cahnge the policy at will. They can prevent any guest from returning late because thetimes are clearly on the fatspass. Ultimate freedom for Disney and they look like the good guy to people who don't know better.

It's the same here. Disney already seems to be admitting that they will make exceptions. My guess is that most people will never be charged as long as they cancel and have even a slightly valid excuse. I think the only people who will really get charged are the ones who make no effort at all to cancel.

The one policy Disney seems to follw pretty faithfully is that their policies are rarely set in stone. I don't understand why so many think this one will be. For me, this is simply more logical than a money making scheme. 10$ a person just doesn't generate enough money to be worth the aggravation.

This is where your logic fails.

For starters, you could make the argument about the policy, but you'd be wrong. Disney's written, stated, and trained on policy is to allow them to be used after the window. We've seen the postings from CMs confirming this is in their training manuals and was specifically stated to CMs during training. We've even seen the page in the book where it states this. Therefore, it's akin to making the argument that the sky is orange or the moon is made of cheese. You can argue it all you want, but you're still wrong.

Secondly, it's NOT clear that FP works best when guests return within the window. In fact, it's also untrue. Though this time, not because it works worse, it just works the same no matter what time they return after the start on the same day (just like how the policy is written). While it may SEEM to take longer when you're behind that group of 50 people with FPs after the window, the fact remains that those same 50 would have been in front of you otherwise. Whether it's 5 minutes or 5 hours, it makes no difference, you are still #x person to ride that ride during the day, and due to the mechanics of math and ride capacity, that ride will happen at very close to (if not exactly at) the same time every day.

More discussion on the mechanics of numbers and how math relates to FPs can be handled by those skilled at this correlation over on the TP&S board.

As far as relating to this policy. It's been stated, several times, that exceptions will be few and far between. This policy is meant "to have teeth". I wouldn't bet the house on "most people will never be charged as long as they cancel and have even a slightly valid excuse". Of course, I could be wrong, and I freely admit that. I just wouldn't count on it in this particular case (just don't ask about other stuff kthx )

 

[mom2rtk]

So what is going to happen when people place a good numbrr of adrs with a prepaid card that has ten bucks on it and they fail to show up to some of the adrs. Im sayin that Disney will only lose out on money for so long and they will change it.

I'm guessing since it will be such a small minority it won't even register for them.

 

[Lewisc]

So what is going to happen when people place a good numbrr of adrs with a prepaid card that has ten bucks on it and they fail to show up to some of the adrs. Im sayin that Disney will only lose out on money for so long and they will change it.

I agree with the other poster. Probably not significant BUT too many gamesters?

Disney might only accept ADRs linked to your resort reservation. No-Show fees would be charged back to your resort.

Not staying at a WDW resort? Disney will either make you pre-pay for your meal or pay a deposit of ($20 /head). Actual credit card charge.

 

[MELSMICE]

Along that same note, how DO the other 1,000 hotels in the WDW area manage to stay afloat? They don't have anywhere near the data that WDW has, and they manage to handle no shows just fine. I'm sure every offsite restaurant in Orlando has to deal with no shows. But they don't have crazy fees to force guests to keep those ADR's.

Although, I'm sure there are some, I've never been to an off-site restaurant that required a reservation. The off-site restaurants we go to are just walk in & be seated or you can do a call ahead.

I suppose it will do exactly what they want. If creating a new revenue stream is what they wanted.

Do we know that Disney is looking to create a new revenue stream?

 

[MELSMICE]

Here is my DH's "proposal" to the new policy:

Someone misses their ADR (does not cancel) & gets charged the fee. Let's say $40 for a family of 4. He proposed that the $40 fee get credited to an account to be used at another Disney restaurant before the end of your stay.

Of course, the logistics of this would be simpler if all guests stayed on property as a "restaurant only" credit could be put on your account.

Just something else to think about for those of you that are writing letters to Disney about this. This way Disney does not lose money & the guest is not out any money either if they choose to use the credit.

 

[Colleen27]

Theoretically, yes, you will have that extra competition, presumably from all the people who planned their trips between the 180 day mark and the 45 or 90 day mark. But you also eliminate a lot of people too. Such as the people who now book ADRs at 180 days "on spec" for a maybe trip they never end up taking - and this also includes the person who makes and ADR for 12 because while they know their family of 4 is going, their cousin/sister/nieighbor's families may be going too, but it probably ends up only being the 4 of them. So now, they only book a ADR for 4 from the beginning. Additionally, let's look at the people who would be considered hoarders/abusers. Many of them would likely feel that they no longer need to do that because at the reduced window, they now have solidified their plans with more definitive park/shows/fireworks/etc. schedules available, their flights have been booked , and so on.

Yep. I'll open myself up to flames by using myself as an example. Our upcoming trip has been booked and planned four times - for August for 5, Nov for 5, Nov for 7, and now Jan for 7 with the distinct possibility that it'll end up just being 5 after all. That's a lot of ADR capacity tied up for varying lengths of time that could easily be avoided with a shorter window, but having to book before we have work schedules set, before the school has published the calendar for the coming year, and before the discount airlines have even released fares/schedules sets up a situation that requires many changes along the way.

 

[mom2rtk]

Do we know that Disney is looking to create a new revenue stream?

No, but we don't know it isn't either. Hence my use of the word "if".

 

[Colleen27]

Free dining, instead of deeply discounted rooms, means more guests are on a dining plan. Dining Plan guests are told to make ADRs, or run the risk of not being able to secure a TS meal, at "normal" meal time, at a restaurant near where the guest is staying or touring at meal time. I'll speculate DDP guests make more ADRs per vacation then a typical guest not on a dining plan.

That's probably true for some, but it is true whether the DDP is paid or not. No one wants to waste their credits. But it isn't a universal truth; there are those of us who just don't like QS enough to make it a big part of our vacations, and plenty of people with the TiW card stick to eligible restaurants too.

 

[Colleen27]

So what is going to happen when people place a good numbrr of adrs with a prepaid card that has ten bucks on it and they fail to show up to some of the adrs. Im sayin that Disney will only lose out on money for so long and they will change it.

I would be very surprised if enough people do that for it to even register on Disney's radar, to be honest. There are fees associated with pre-paid cards and time/thought that has to be put into setting up a no-risk debit account (and perhaps fees there too, because free checking is getting harder to find/qualify for), and I don't think many people will go to those lengths to get around Disney's fees.

 

[rhino78]

Do they fluctuate wildly though? We don't know that and can only guess. I'd obviously guess at some fluctuation, but the source info is suspect at best as it stands and I certainly wouldn't be putting any faith in those numbers to start with (much less publishing them, but that's not up to me ).

In writing the book below, it also begs the question, do the numbers created by UG include partial parties? Are they counting a party of 1 that had an ADR for 2 as 1 no show? There's just too many questions about the numbers to allow them to hold up under any rational thought.

The problem isn't actually no shows, and I think this bears exploring. No shows are NOT the actual problem. No shows are an EFFECT of the problem. The root of the problem lies in Disney's system as it is. There are too many issues with it to allow for any sort of accurate prediction on actual no show rates. This stems from the 180 day thing (though, I do prefer it, but can see how it is problematic), the technical side of the website, the call center CMs lack of training, and poorly implemented subsystems of the whole ADR thing in the first place.

Several systems could be developed on Disney's side to reduce the root issues in the first place:

• Create and implement better user matching. Match based on names, numbers, email accounts, and site logins to try and find those attempting to get around the system. When the system finds a match, flag it but don't cancel.
• Have CMs capture the flagged matches and contact the guest about potential conflicts. The CM would then resolve the issue right there, whether it's by cancelling extra reservations, or flagging them as not the same person so they will no longer be contacted about them. (Yes, there's room for abuse here, but the direct personal contact is harder to abuse than the impersonal computer system).
• Adjust the online system to be more browser friendly. In other words, stop coding to MSIE standards and start coding to W3C standards!
• Fix whatever the session/cookie problem is that prevents proper authentication
• Fix the table-size issue that has persisted in the dining system for years. Availability for 1 should equal availability for 2, 3 for 4, 5 for 6. Right now, this isn't the case. Alternatively (and easier/cheaper), block the guest numbers together with radio buttons/dropdowns. So 1-2, 3-4, 5-6 would be options, then add an "Other" where they can specify a larger party.
• Expand the limitation from a 3hr window (1.5 on each side) to an 8 hour window (4hr on each side) (This is the auto cancel thing when you make new ADRs in the system).
• Create a "waitlist" system secondary to ADRs. On the day of dining, someone can be put on a waitlist that will automatically call them if something opens up. This would tie together the walk-up system with the 3hr cancellation window, thus allowing Disney to be able to estimate if they'll have a filler for that cancellation and better judge the amount of people that will likely be dining. (Coding for this would not be difficult)
• Release park schedules out 1 month before ADRs open up
• Place an express line at Guest Services for dining issues, either those looking for ADRs, those cancelling ADRs, or those wanting to be waitlisted
• ...

These are just some of the steps that I would have taken first if it were up to me. These address issues with the system that leads to no shows, rather than no shows themselves. This is akin to treating a disease, whereas the current system treats the symptoms.

Of course, after these (and other) steps were taken, if no shows were still an issue, then more drastic measures should be looked into. I just think that they went the "easy" route and proved they don't give much thought to their customers the way it was handled.

So, for those that skimmed (I admit, I probably would too ), the basic premise is that no shows are not the actual problem, rather the effect of the problem. A better solution would have addressed the problems inherent within the system itself first, before penalizing no shows financially should have occurred. And that if no shows were still a problem after the system was improved considerably, then (and only then) it would be time for more drastic measures such as the one applied. The fact that Disney skipped the interim steps says to me that they don't care about their guests and this was not about guest experience one bit, just about the money and putting all the blame on the customers.


This is where your logic fails.

For starters, you could make the argument about the policy, but you'd be wrong. Disney's written, stated, and trained on policy is to allow them to be used after the window. We've seen the postings from CMs confirming this is in their training manuals and was specifically stated to CMs during training. We've even seen the page in the book where it states this. Therefore, it's akin to making the argument that the sky is orange or the moon is made of cheese. You can argue it all you want, but you're still wrong.

Secondly, it's NOT clear that FP works best when guests return within the window. In fact, it's also untrue. Though this time, not because it works worse, it just works the same no matter what time they return after the start on the same day (just like how the policy is written). While it may SEEM to take longer when you're behind that group of 50 people with FPs after the window, the fact remains that those same 50 would have been in front of you otherwise. Whether it's 5 minutes or 5 hours, it makes no difference, you are still #x person to ride that ride during the day, and due to the mechanics of math and ride capacity, that ride will happen at very close to (if not exactly at) the same time every day.

More discussion on the mechanics of numbers and how math relates to FPs can be handled by those skilled at this correlation over on the TP&S board.

As far as relating to this policy. It's been stated, several times, that exceptions will be few and far between. This policy is meant "to have teeth". I wouldn't bet the house on "most people will never be charged as long as they cancel and have even a slightly valid excuse". Of course, I could be wrong, and I freely admit that. I just wouldn't count on it in this particular case (just don't ask about other stuff kthx )

I don't want to go too much into the math of fastpass, but think of a funnel. Essentially, fastpass is a funnel for guests. A funnel works best with a steady volume. It's why fastpass lines back up at the end of the day. In fact, I read a stat on here not that long ago that said all these new rumors of fastpass enforcement were due to the fact that 60% or something of fastpasses are getting used in the last 90 minutes and it's causing big delays.

Also, I did read the training doc, but that usually doesn't reflect the "official" policy. There is a huge difference between what actually happens and what is supposed to happen in business. If you don't like fastpass, look at resort parking. How many times have you read that you need a 3hr parking pass to park? Yet, I, and many others have had guards just wave us through to park at resorts. Well, which is it? Is there a 3 hr time limit or not? Most likely, it depends. I would imagine there is an official policy that explicitly says all visitors to s resort should be given a 3hr pass. It just doesn't get followed to the letter.

Again, could this be the policy that has NO wiggle room? Sure, and I would be the first one to say I was wrong to doubt, however, I'll wait to see how this is really implemented before I complain.

 

[waynesgirl]

Really? Start a thread on that over on the theme parks forum and see how much agreement you get on just how "clear" that is.

It's the same here. Disney already seems to be admitting that they will make exceptions. My guess is that most people will never be charged as long as they cancel and have even a slightly valid excuse. I think the only people who will really get charged are the ones who make no effort at all to cancel.

The one policy Disney seems to follw pretty faithfully is that their policies are rarely set in stone. I don't understand why so many think this one will be. For me, this is simply more logical than a money making scheme. 10$ a person just doesn't generate enough money to be worth the aggravation.

I agree with this statement...I think it comes down to the ones who make no effort at all. And I agree also with the fact that it is a policy to ignore or change the policy to keep the majority from complaining.

But I don't think the solution to that is to start penalizing people who play the game Disney designed; the solution from a company that boasts excellent customer service should be to redesign the game. .

I think that, again, the Fors (ers) and the Againsts (ers) see this in two ways- it is or it is not terrible customer service. The against see it as harming them, so ergo, bad customer service. The for(s) see it as an increase in customer service. Overall, IMO, based on the scope of their operations, Disney does it right most of the time, just like every other business.

There are two issues that impede cancellation. Wait time on the phone is one. The last time I cancelled an ADR on the fly (in March) I called WDW-Dine while waiting for a bus at Epcot.
The online system is the other. Right now I cannot cancel using Firefox or Chrome from my desktop, and my pre-Android web-enabled phone cannot even access the dining site. An Android or iPhone can book ADRs but generally cannot cancel them because Internet Explorer is the only browser that can reliably navigate cancellation process.

And to help this situation, they've added another phone number... That is not yet working reliably and routes to the same high-volume/long-hold-time call centers as the existing numbers.

And I agree it isn't always great, but nothing stopped you from going to the counter at your resort to have the guest services cancel it. And, please don't think I am being snarky because I really have enjoyed all of your posts so far, but it really isn't Disney's fault that you can't change your internet browser to Explorer. I am not crazy about their website; I think it is slow, and questionable and unreliable, so I do feel your pain as I have had nothing but issues when I use it- that is why I make the call personally or I will deal with the ADR on-site or at another park or resort. It actually takes less time for me to do that than to get on the darn phone anyway...and my battery dies so darn fast that I would rather not use my phone anyway.

[*] Create and implement better user matching. Match based on names, numbers, email accounts, and site logins to try and find those attempting to get around the system. When the system finds a match, flag it but don't cancel.

[*] Have CMs capture the flagged matches and contact the guest about potential conflicts. The CM would then resolve the issue right there, whether it's by cancelling extra reservations, or flagging them as not the same person so they will no longer be contacted about them. (Yes, there's room for abuse here, but the direct personal contact is harder to abuse than the impersonal computer system).

[*] Adjust the online system to be more browser friendly. In other words, stop coding to MSIE standards and start coding to W3C standards!
[*] Fix whatever the session/cookie problem is that prevents proper authentication
[*] Fix the table-size issue that has persisted in the dining system for years. Availability for 1 should equal availability for 2, 3 for 4, 5 for 6. Right now, this isn't the case. Alternatively (and easier/cheaper), block the guest numbers together with radio buttons/dropdowns. So 1-2, 3-4, 5-6 would be options, then add an "Other" where they can specify a larger party.
[*] Expand the limitation from a 3hr window (1.5 on each side) to an 8 hour window (4hr on each side) (This is the auto cancel thing when you make new ADRs in the system).

Though I somehat agree, it should be a certain amount for lunch and dinner separate. I, like a lot of other Disney families that I meet on my trips, are willing to forgo a lunch in order to get an early dinner, so maybe rearrange it that way. However, I am in the minority on this one, I think.

[*] Create a "waitlist" system secondary to ADRs. On the day of dining, someone can be put on a waitlist that will automatically call them if something opens up. This would tie together the walk-up system with the 3hr cancellation window, thus allowing Disney to be able to estimate if they'll have a filler for that cancellation and better judge the amount of people that will likely be dining. (Coding for this would not be difficult)
[*] Release park schedules out 1 month before ADRs open up
[*] Place an express line at Guest Services for dining issues, either those looking for ADRs, those cancelling ADRs, or those wanting to be waitlisted
[*] ...[/list]



This is where your logic fails.

For starters, you could make the argument about the policy, but you'd be wrong. Disney's written, stated, and trained on policy is to allow them to be used after the window. We've seen the postings from CMs confirming this is in their training manuals and was specifically stated to CMs during training. We've even seen the page in the book where it states this. Therefore, it's akin to making the argument that the sky is orange or the moon is made of cheese. You can argue it all you want, but you're still wrong.

Secondly, it's NOT clear that FP works best when guests return within the window. In fact, it's also untrue. Though this time, not because it works worse, it just works the same no matter what time they return after the start on the same day (just like how the policy is written). While it may SEEM to take longer when you're behind that group of 50 people with FPs after the window, the fact remains that those same 50 would have been in front of you otherwise. Whether it's 5 minutes or 5 hours, it makes no difference, you are still #x person to ride that ride during the day, and due to the mechanics of math and ride capacity, that ride will happen at very close to (if not exactly at) the same time every day.

More discussion on the mechanics of numbers and how math relates to FPs can be handled by those skilled at this correlation over on the TP&S board.

As far as relating to this policy. It's been stated, several times, that exceptions will be few and far between. This policy is meant "to have teeth". I wouldn't bet the house on "most people will never be charged as long as they cancel and have even a slightly valid excuse". Of course, I could be wrong, and I freely admit that. I just wouldn't count on it in this particular case (just don't ask about other stuff kthx )

And, again, as we have done before, there is no proof that either way to use a FP works, as neither has been inherently proven, much like your points about dining on this thread. (I won't waste my time here other than to say, much like a restaurant empty table isn't doing anything until the physical person shows up, the same is true for a FP. The invisible space FP argument does not hold water for me, much like the ADR non-cancels are the inherent problem or the rude people are the cause argument. Until Disney produces numbers to refute or agree, it is all speculation. But I am sure we will debate that other issue on the other thread....along with Wadecool, Robo, and the others.)

I'm guessing since it will be such a small minority it won't even register for them.

I do not agree. Pre-paids will ruin a business. I used to work for car rental...pre-paids were instantly declined as they can incur a variety of problems so I do not doubt for a minute that Disney will nip that in the bud quick.

I agree with the other poster. Probably not significant BUT too many gamesters?

Disney might only accept ADRs linked to your resort reservation. No-Show fees would be charged back to your resort.

Not staying at a WDW resort? Disney will either make you pre-pay for your meal or pay a deposit of ($20 /head). Actual credit card charge.

I like the idea of ADRs for resort only reservations, but that is because I stay at resorts. I bet the AP holders, and the off-site guests might beg to differ. and that is actually brilliant....if they are required to leave a deposit, non-refundable- of $10 per person, that is then credited to the meal, I wonder how people would react? Would that be a little more palpatable? I would love to see the responses to this...I think overall it might be an easier thing to accept.

 

[mcd2745]

Yep. I'll open myself up to flames by using myself as an example. Our upcoming trip has been booked and planned four times - for August for 5, Nov for 5, Nov for 7, and now Jan for 7 with the distinct possibility that it'll end up just being 5 after all. That's a lot of ADR capacity tied up for varying lengths of time that could easily be avoided with a shorter window, but having to book before we have work schedules set, before the school has published the calendar for the coming year, and before the discount airlines have even released fares/schedules sets up a situation that requires many changes along the way.

No flames. You're working within the system as it is currently set up. But it just illustrates why the whole 180 thing is not the most ideal and/or efficient window.

 

[Snurk71]

And, please don't think I am being snarky because I really have enjoyed all of your posts so far, but it really isn't Disney's fault that you can't change your internet browser to Explorer.

I'm going to pick on you here for a moment. My company works in education web-based software tools. So everything we do is internet bowser-based. When bugs pop up in IE (which they often do), the developers always say that the system's designed for Firefox/Chrome and IE is garbage and it's not their fault some dopes are still dumb enough to use IE (gotta love IT know-it-alls). But the reality is that something like 90% of K-12 education uses IE as their browser. So is our responsibility to code and work around what our customer's actually use or tell them it's their fault that they're using a buggy browser (most of the time of which they have no control over - it's the IT department's control what's loaded/used)? If we want those customers, yes it is our responsibility to work around the tools our customers use.

Transferring this to the Disney discussion, the age on smart phones is here and Disney should be making all of their web-based applications compatible with the leading tools used to access their tools. And what % of smartphones are running IE?

Again, this is a different view of customer service that NLD or someone brought up pages ago. Do you try to understand your customer and develop your service/systems around their behavior patterns or do you try to force your customer's behavior patterns into the square box you believe in?

 

[Colleen27]

And I agree it isn't always great, but nothing stopped you from going to the counter at your resort to have the guest services cancel it. And, please don't think I am being snarky because I really have enjoyed all of your posts so far, but it really isn't Disney's fault that you can't change your internet browser to Explorer. I am not crazy about their website; I think it is slow, and questionable and unreliable, so I do feel your pain as I have had nothing but issues when I use it- that is why I make the call personally or I will deal with the ADR on-site or at another park or resort. It actually takes less time for me to do that than to get on the darn phone anyway...and my battery dies so darn fast that I would rather not use my phone anyway.

True, but guest services has its issue as well - namely, having to stand in a physical line to cancel an ADR. At least in the virtual line of a phone queue we could get back to our resort while waiting. Not so with getting in line between 3-4 other people at the guest services counter.

I do just change over to IE when I need to do something on the Disney website from home. In fact, that's the only reason I still have it on my computer at all. But this is the era of the tablet & smartphone. It is simply bad design to put together a website based on IE when you know full well that it will be inaccessible to a large share of your customers. The fact that Disney has made cancellation from the methods available to most travelers so very inconvenient has undoubtedly contributed to the high no-show rate, but rather than remedy any of the problems on their end Disney went straight for fines to change guest behaviour.

I do not agree. Pre-paids will ruin a business. I used to work for car rental...pre-paids were instantly declined as they can incur a variety of problems so I do not doubt for a minute that Disney will nip that in the bud quick.

They accept them now for room reservations and KTTW charging privledges. If that hasn't caused problems, why would using them for dining be the thing that causes them to disallow the use of pre-paid cards?

I like the idea of ADRs for resort only reservations, but that is because I stay at resorts. I bet the AP holders, and the off-site guests might beg to differ. and that is actually brilliant....if they are required to leave a deposit, non-refundable- of $10 per person, that is then credited to the meal, I wonder how people would react? Would that be a little more palpatable? I would love to see the responses to this...I think overall it might be an easier thing to accept.

I doubt it, at least for people with bigger families. Because now you're talking about tying up hundreds of dollars for 6 months just to be able to have a few nice dinners or character meals on vacation.