New car seat guidelines from the AAp

[monkeybug]

My DS11 is the same way. He has been wearing a size 10 for three years now. He grows sooo slowly. I can't wait until his well visit...I am kind of getting concerned about his growth rate. He's in 6th grade, and everyone always thinks he's in 3rd or 4th grade. It's starting to upset him...he HATES being the smallest kid in his class.

My son is the same way, and so was my husband!
One bright spot is that now all my husbands high school friends are jealous because he still looks so young! (he did end up growing to average height...just took him a long time.) He is 37 and still gets carded on a regular basis! So I guess there are some perks to slow growth!

 

[luvmy3]

I just can't understand why anyone would find fault with the idea of someone doing whatever they can to keep their child safe - and those that use the minimum requirements as a stopping point just baffle me. The bare minimum will never be good enough wehn it comes to the safety of any child of mine.

Just my opinion, of course, but I am very glad that the AAP and NHSTA are now officially recommending extended rear facing, along with the booster seat guidelines. I hope they soon will include more information about the benefits of keeping kids in a 5 point harness longer.

Just curious, do you make your child wear a helmet in the car? That would surely protect them even more and keep them as safe as possible. If you aren't doing above whats recommended, aren't you still only doing the bare minimum? If your personal goal is to keep your child as safe as possible, then whats recommended shouldn't matter, why do you need them to tell you what is the safest, surely there is more you could do on your own.

It's not the norm for an 11 year old today, but for the kids who are 8 now it might very well be the norm by the time they are 11.

It used to not be the norm to have kids in car seats at all, to wear seat belts, or for kids to only sit in the back seat. We learn more and things change, that's the way it's always been.
I imagine that every step of the way someone was throwing up their hands saying how ridiculous it all was, because that's the way it's always been too. ( I'm not saying your doing that though!)

True, as a newborn I came home from the hospital laying in the back seat. We certainly have learned through the years how to keep our children safe in the car. But where does it end? In 30+ years will we be putting helmets on them, putting them in cusioned suits that are flame resistant? Will HS students be required to be in a carseat. There will always be things we can do to make ourselves safer, but at some point we need to draw the line at being over protective and overly cautious. Who knows maybe someday the recommendation will be not to let your child in a car until he/she can drive it.

 

[nmmom95]

Who knows maybe someday the recommendation will be not to let your child in a car until he/she can drive it.

LOL
I agree with everything you said. I want to be cautious and protect my children, but I'm not going to wrap them in bubble wrap. I let DS13 in the front seat by 11. He was taller than me at this point and they let me in the front. Now DS7 is small for his age, but I doubt that I will leave him in a booster until he is 12. The law in NJ is 8 or 80. he is nowhere near 80 lbs and he will be 8 in July. I may be able to keep him in another year, but by 4th grade, I can't blame him for wanting out.

 

[kt_mom]

Just curious, do you make your child wear a helmet in the car? That would surely protect them even more and keep them as safe as possible. If you aren't doing above whats recommended, aren't you still only doing the bare minimum? If your personal goal is to keep your child as safe as possible, then whats recommended shouldn't matter, why do you need them to tell you what is the safest, surely there is more you could do on your own.



True, as a newborn I came home from the hospital laying in the back seat. We certainly have learned through the years how to keep our children safe in the car. But where does it end? In 30+ years will we be putting helmets on them, putting them in cusioned suits that are flame resistant? Will HS students be required to be in a carseat. There will always be things we can do to make ourselves safer, but at some point we need to draw the line at being over protective and overly cautious. Who knows maybe someday the recommendation will be not to let your child in a car until he/she can drive it.

I agree! The line has to be drawn somewhere and I perfer to make that choice for my kids, not big brother. But I'm okay with "guidelines". That means I can look at them, apply them to my situation and choose what is best for my family. Our car has an adjustable seat belt. In the lowered postion it fits DD just perfect and she is more comfortable than sitting up on top of that booster seat.

 

[kt_mom]

Sarcasm my dear. My daughter is tiny. She's 3, and just last night as we were getting our taxes done, our tax person, who also has a daughter who just turned three (our daughter is really 3.5) was amazed that our daughter wears a 2T in pants. Her daughter wears a 5/5T (her daughter is not huge by any means as by the recent pic on her desk) and another lady at the office mentioned her 3 year old is in a 4T. Our daughter is just so small, that the hubster and I always joke that she'll be in a booster seat until high school and we'll be using her stroller at WDW until she's in middle school (the stroller is a Graco IPO unbrella stroller that will hold a child up to 50 lbs). Our daughter is around 38 inches tall, but only weighs 32 lbs, and she just made the 32 a few months back. And, you know your child is tiny, when you celebrate things like she finally reached 30 lbs.

No, honestly, I wouldn't have her in booster seat and pull up at the local high school. I'm just saying that when I do buy a booster seat for her (lookign into it). I want it to be:
1) high back
2) 5 point harness, but later can be used with the car seat belt
3) will last FORVEVER -- and knowing how little the darling girl is -- (sarcasm)will likely last her until high school (/sarcasm)

Also, I just got a bunch of free Spring/Summer clothes for her. Wanna know how. I wne tthrough last year's Spring/Summer clothes bin and found out (after trying stuff on her Sunday afternoon) that over half of the clothes still fit her. That's when you know she's tiny, a smost of my friends who have toddler/pre-schoolers let me know how lucky I am. One of my friends has a tall skinny 4 year old, who is in a girl's size 7, and will likely be in an 8 or 10 by Fall.

Sorry, it just didn't come across as sarcasm and as many posts as I've read of people with 11 and even 12 year old kids in booster seats it sort of went with that trend.

 

[golfgal]

My state already has the 4'9" rule for booster seats (and has for several years). They also have to be at least 8 years old AND 4'9" (not one or the other, but both). I'm sure DS will be 10 before he can be out of the booster.

I turned my older DS around at 1 year old (24 lbs.), but with my younger one, it was becoming more widely known about the 2 years old or the maximum limits of the car seat -- so, he rear-faced until he was 2.

Now if they'd only address extended harnessing . . .

My niece is only 4'10" and technically supposed to be in the back seat in a booster--except that it is kind of hard to drive a car from the back seat in a booster seat. In your state, she would not be able to drive...

I am all for keeping kids safe but when our kids were little the "checkpoint" for turning kids around in their carseats was that their feet touched the back seat. Then they said that if they were in an accident and their legs were touching the back seat the impact could blow out their hips and cause major spinal damage--soooo, what it is it now that has change the physiological make up of kids that has made this safe all of the sudden?

 

[monkeybug]

I get what people are saying as far as "where does it stop". At some point comfort and convenience do come before safety.
I have to say that I don't think it ever will stop, and I don't think it should. We are pretty darn good at thinking up innovative ways to keep ourselves safer with out sacrificing too much of our comfort, and I think we should always be striving to make things safer. We've come a long way since starting a fire in a cave and spearing our food with a pointy stick.
Does that mean someday we will all be wearing a 5 point harness? Maybe. Will our seats be more adjustable to accommodate smaller people? Maybe. Will we put on helmets when we buckle our seats? Maybe. Will it be ridiculous if that's what the majority of people are doing? No! It only seems ridiculous now because it's not how things are currently done. (and no, nobody in my family wears a helmet in a car)
I remember people throwing their hands in the air in disgust over seatbelt laws, and then again over helmet laws. I don't think most people think it's ridiculous to see a man on a motorcycle wearing a helmet these days, or for a woman to buckle her seatbelt before pulling out of her drive. In fact many would think it's ridiculous not to. Things change, and our perspective's change with them.
The bottom line is that putting our families in a car to go to the grocery store is the most dangerous thing we probably ever do to them, and as long as people are still losing their lives at alarming rates then we should have people working their hardest to think of ways and create laws and guidelines that will protect us.
Nobody looks at all the research done to try and stop people from dying of cancer and asks "when does it stop?"

 

[monkeybug]

My niece is only 4'10" and technically supposed to be in the back seat in a booster--except that it is kind of hard to drive a car from the back seat in a booster seat. In your state, she would not be able to drive...

I am all for keeping kids safe but when our kids were little the "checkpoint" for turning kids around in their carseats was that their feet touched the back seat. Then they said that if they were in an accident and their legs were touching the back seat the impact could blow out their hips and cause major spinal damage--soooo, what it is it now that has change the physiological make up of kids that has made this safe all of the sudden?

They've done more research and unfortunately had to care for a lot more toddlers with serious injuries, so now they have data to support the fact that rear facing is indeed safer.
I remember people swearing that seat belts were dangerous and could split you in half. I remember people saying that their friends who were EMT's said to never wear a seat belt because they had to cut people out of them and they caused injuries.
I'm pretty sure we can all say today that all though it is possible to sustain an injury from a seat belt, they are, generally speaking, much less serious than those sustained from not wearing one.

 

[RitaE]

LOL
I agree with everything you said. I want to be cautious and protect my children, but I'm not going to wrap them in bubble wrap. I let DS13 in the front seat by 11. He was taller than me at this point and they let me in the front. Now DS7 is small for his age, but I doubt that I will leave him in a booster until he is 12. The law in NJ is 8 or 80. he is nowhere near 80 lbs and he will be 8 in July. I may be able to keep him in another year, but by 4th grade, I can't blame him for wanting out.

My son is actually really tall for his age but very skinny and our State law is also 8/80. I finally let him out at just a little over age 7 even though he is nowhere near 80lbs (around 65lbs). We just hoped really hard that we never got pulled over. He looked ridiculous in the thing and was constantly complaining about it being uncomfortable.

If I tried to keep him in it until age 12 I suspect his head would be hitting the car roof.

 

[jodifla]

I agree! The line has to be drawn somewhere and I perfer to make that choice for my kids, not big brother. But I'm okay with "guidelines". That means I can look at them, apply them to my situation and choose what is best for my family. Our car has an adjustable seat belt. In the lowered postion it fits DD just perfect and she is more comfortable than sitting up on top of that booster seat.

This, this and this some more!!!!!

 

[jodifla]

I get what people are saying as far as "where does it stop". At some point comfort and convenience do come before safety.
I have to say that I don't think it ever will stop, and I don't think it should. We are pretty darn good at thinking up innovative ways to keep ourselves safer with out sacrificing too much of our comfort, and I think we should always be striving to make things safer. We've come a long way since starting a fire in a cave and spearing our food with a pointy stick.
Does that mean someday we will all be wearing a 5 point harness? Maybe. Will our seats be more adjustable to accommodate smaller people? Maybe. Will we put on helmets when we buckle our seats? Maybe. Will it be ridiculous if that's what the majority of people are doing? No! It only seems ridiculous now because it's not how things are currently done. (and no, nobody in my family wears a helmet in a car)
I remember people throwing their hands in the air in disgust over seatbelt laws, and then again over helmet laws. I don't think most people think it's ridiculous to see a man on a motorcycle wearing a helmet these days, or for a woman to buckle her seatbelt before pulling out of her drive. In fact many would think it's ridiculous not to. Things change, and our perspective's change with them.
The bottom line is that putting our families in a car to go to the grocery store is the most dangerous thing we probably ever do to them, and as long as people are still losing their lives at alarming rates then we should have people working their hardest to think of ways and create laws and guidelines that will protect us.
Nobody looks at all the research done to try and stop people from dying of cancer and asks "when does it stop?"

But individuals sure look at their choices when it comes to fighting their own cancer and make the best decisions FOR THEM!

When my dad was Dxed with throat cancer, he tried a round of chemo. But it made him so sick that he decided to stop treatments. He wanted to enjoy the last of his life, without being so sick for the whole time.

His life, his CHOICE.

 

[monkeybug]

But individuals sure look at their choices when it comes to fighting their own cancer and make the best decisions FOR THEM!

When my dad was Dxed with throat cancer, he tried a round of chemo. But it made him so sick that he decided to stop treatments. He wanted to enjoy the last of his life, without being so sick for the whole time.

His life, his CHOICE.

So is (currently) whether or not you put your 12 year old in a booster seat.
Would you have looked at a patient like your dad who had decided to go on with chemo and said they were ridiculous?

And we do have laws in place to protect us from cancer. And laws that force parents to pursue treatment for their children even if it's not their choice.

 

[Toad_Passenger]

Just curious, do you make your child wear a helmet in the car? That would surely protect them even more and keep them as safe as possible. If you aren't doing above whats recommended, aren't you still only doing the bare minimum? If your personal goal is to keep your child as safe as possible, then whats recommended shouldn't matter, why do you need them to tell you what is the safest, surely there is more you could do on your own.


True, as a newborn I came home from the hospital laying in the back seat. We certainly have learned through the years how to keep our children safe in the car. But where does it end? In 30+ years will we be putting helmets on them, putting them in cusioned suits that are flame resistant? Will HS students be required to be in a carseat. There will always be things we can do to make ourselves safer, but at some point we need to draw the line at being over protective and overly cautious. Who knows maybe someday the recommendation will be not to let your child in a car until he/she can drive it.

BBM.

Johnny: Hey, Suzie, do you want to go to the Steak & Shake with me tonight?
Suzie: Sure, Johnnie, pick me up at 7?
Johnny: You got it Suzie, don't forget your car seat.

 

[rchristiansen]

But individuals sure look at their choices when it comes to fighting their own cancer and make the best decisions FOR THEM!

When my dad was Dxed with throat cancer, he tried a round of chemo. But it made him so sick that he decided to stop treatments. He wanted to enjoy the last of his life, without being so sick for the whole time.

His life, his CHOICE.

Exactly - when a guideline has a significant downside to it, the cost may outweigh the risk. Sure, according to that ONE journal article, the risk of significant injury goes down with rear facing for side and rear impact (the journal article also stated the risk is the same for frontal crashes - also the results analyze the risk of injury including, but not only death), however the actual risk of being in one of those accidents is also significantly low. But the cost of having your child's legs cramped, as one PP mentioned may be too high. That in and of itself caused injury - without even experiencing an automobile crash. That PP realized what they were doing caused more harm than good. Perhaps the injury caused by the leg cramps would actually "cost" more over time. More research is needed to determine the cost of cramping the children's legs.

Also, along the lines of research - here's an interesting talk that suggests car seats are no more effective than seat belts: http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/steven_levitt_on_child_carseats.html

 

[Bren's Mom]

I love the weight limits on the Britax, but wish they weren't the only ones with the higher weight limits for rear-facing.

Good news! There are LOTS of convertible car seats with higher limits for rear-facing. In fact, there are several that are significantly less expensive than the Britax convertibles, with high rear-facing weight limits (40lbs) and forward-facing weight limits. Nearly all convertibles on the market in the US now have AT LEAST a 35lbs rear-facing weight limit and that is more than plenty to get most kids to between the ages of 2 and 3.

I'd like to add to this overall discussion of the updated guidelines by saying that NHTSA also updated their guidelines. Their updated site is nice and clear as to what is suggested for each age range (just click on the age you want to see):

http://www.nhtsa.gov/Safety/CPS

And here is a great PDF that can be printed, if you want to share this info with anyone:

http://www.nhtsa.gov/DOT/NHTSA/Traffic Injury Control/Articles/Associated Files/4StepsFlyer.pdf

One thing to note about the AAP recommendations, they're saying they'd like everyone to get to AT LEAST 2 if possible. If you have a convertible seat and your child is rear-facing and has not yet met the height or weight limits of the seat they should remain rear-facing for optimum safety.

I can personnally attest that in a moderately priced car seat an average sized child CAN rear-face to the age of 3 without any problems. I owned an Evenflo Triumph Advance for my son, which at the time had a 35lbs rear-facing limit and a 50lbs forward-facing limit. He was about 50%ile for weight and 90%ile for height, and we turned him when he reached the weight limit at around age 3. That car seat at the time we bought it was $129, not a crazy expensive one. He never once complained about his legs, the Triumph Advance has lots more leg room than the old style Britax 'big' seats like the Marathon and Boulevard. And, in fact, he would complain about his legs dangling once we did turn him forward-facing.

Does this mean I judge any parent who doesn't make it to 3? Absolutely not. I have a friend whose child hit 30lbs at one year. She kept her child rear-facing for about 6 more months until he hit the 35lbs mark, and then had no choice but to turn him. She could not afford a seat with a higher than 35lbs rear-facing limit, which at the time was a very pricey $300 seat. If that same child were turning one NOW, she would have many more much less expensive options.

I would encourage any parent unsure about the new recommendations to seek the help of an experienced CPST and/or to post at car-seat.org for help. I would encourage parents to do the same if trying to choose a car seat for their child, as there are so many choices, new ones coming on the market all the time, and sadly, too much misinformation on sites like the Dis...which are GREAT for all things Disney...not so much for child passenger safety.

I'm also happy to answer questions here or via PM if anyone has any.

Coleen
CPST

 

[EveDallas]

But I'm just baffled sometimes by what I read. You want to buy a "high back harness booster" that will last your child until HIGHSCHOOL

At what point are we going too far? I'm all for safety. But there is no way in this world I would put my middle school age child in a booster seat. At some point you have to take into account their happiness. I know that is taboo on here when its weighed against safety. But I can't imagine subjecting my child to the ridicule they might encounter in middle school for being in what amounts to a car seat. You can call it a booster seat all you want but a high back harness booster seat is essentially a car seat.

I don't mean to be snarky but I don't think people realize sometimes what they are really saying. And the affects this could have on their child emotionally or socially.

THANK YOU for saying this! Seriously, I can't believe some people have 11, 12, 13 year old kids in booster seats. My DS14 is very small for his age and just hit 4'9" (at age 14). He already gets teased some for being so small. Why on earth would I add to that ridicule by subjecting him to a booster seat?

 

[simba20]

THANK YOU for saying this! Seriously, I can't believe some people have 11, 12, 13 year old kids in booster seats. My DS14 is very small for his age and just hit 4'9" (at age 14). He already gets teased some for being so small. Why on earth would I add to that ridicule by subjecting him to a booster seat?

The poster that you quoted here, directed this comment towards me. To which you can read my reply here

 

[EveDallas]

The poster that you quoted here, directed this comment towards me. To which you can read my reply here

Thanks, but I wasn't directing this at you in particular.

 

[merbobear]

Carseats aren't a one size fits all solution. Body types are different etc. I am all for safety and do my best to keep my kids as safe as possible but I do think that there are variables involved in everything.

I don't see how it is rude for me to state that "bare minimum" is not good enough for my child. It's a simple fact that I insist we go the extra mile to keep her safe. It is another simple fact that I don't understand why anyone would not go that mile for their child. If that is offensive to you, that's your deal.

 

[merbobear]

My children are all past two now but if they were under two I would follow this recommendation.

I do start to wonder where you stop, though. I'm sure that if all children were strapped in with all NASCAR safety devices and wearing full crash helmets, they would be safer in a crash. This would be uncomfortable and very expensive. But threads like these always say "how can I not do it when it makes my child safer?" There has to be a line drawn somewhere. But where?

I think it's reasonable to say that car seats with RF limits of upwards of 45 lbs are readily available in the US. Car seats/harnessed boosters that go up to 85lbs or more are readily available as well. Nascar safety devices, not so readily available. So there's the line - get a car seat that is appropriate for the child's age & size, they are not hard to find, they keep the child much safer than if they were in no seat or a seat meant for an older child.