New buses coming in early 2024 - ECV restrictions

[Yinn]

I’d check with the manufacturers of both of the devices about using the bus tie down systems.
Since both of them are designed to be folded for transport, they would have to advise you how/whether to tie down/secure for buses.
From what I’ve read about the new rear facing securement devices, something as narrow as the Atto is to narrow to use with them.
My daughter’s manual wheelchair is designed for transit and crash tested. But, the back folds down toward the front, so it needs to be forward facing. It looks like the Zoomer folds that way also, so if it can be secured, it should face forward.
I would advise not to sit on either of those devices during the bus ride

I didn’t hear from either manufacturer and ultimately decided to bring the Journey Zoomer with me, and as luck would have it the first bus I took was a new one.

I was the first on, followed by a Go-Go and a Pride Victory. The Go-Go and myself were sandwiched in the new devices, neither of us had much drama or issue. I backed in myself, the GoGo needed assistance. The Pride Victory went into the old style hooks.

There was no issue with the machine, no complaint from the driver, it seemed to take the same amount of time between the old method and the new. The advantage seemed to be that we both could be activated and released at the same time which sped things up for folks.

My Zoomer flexes quite a bit. I feel the chair fleet on uneven terrain, the texture on the streets, and even as I pivot to get onto ramps. But I did not sense any significant pressure from the clamps which surprised me. It felt secure though, I didn’t have any rocking and at no point did I feel unsecured.

I did ask if I could sit on a normal chair and was asked to stay in my ECV. It was a packed bus, no incidents with folks falling but many didn’t know the chairs folded down.

The only negative part is I darn near fell off the ramp when I was getting off the bus, I needed two CMs to help me get upright. Talk about embarrassing!

Aside from that, the new bus was quite uneventful. I’m not sure if everyone just got used to them, or they dialed in the machines a bit more but it seemed to all work as intended.

 

[LoveToDisney]

Glad to hear the Go-Go fits in the new style clamps. Thanks so much for your first hand report!!!

 

[Yinn]

Update: Took a couple more busses, only 1 more was a new one. The rest were the old style. The 2nd ride on the new ECV bus the driver was reluctant. He asked me to transfer, which I said I could do. But he fully expected me to lift the chair into the bus, didn’t lower it at all.

After I was on the bus, I asked if he wanted me to keep it folded or if he wanted me in it. He said I could unfold it. After I did he asked if I was going to sit on it, I stated I could. It was all very confusing. He then complained the entire time about needing to secure me, how this new system is terrible, prefers the old one - all while other folks were loaded onto the bus already and now a bus full of people were staring at me.

The driver struggled with the belt, had issues initializing the system, kept blaming my chair and finally said “that’s good enough”

It was all a bit off putting, there was an expectation from the driver I knew was I was doing, but I kept apologizing stating it was my first time using an ECV at the park.
The stark contrast between the two encounters tell me that the system likely works fine. It’s a muscle memory and familiarity issue for the drivers, and like any human - a bad day can set you off.

 

[LoveToDisney]

Just wondering…What type of ECV did you have? Were you sitting on the ECV and waiting at the back ADA entrance where the ramp to the bus is deployed? Or was the ECV folded and you were at the front door waiting to get on the bus?

 

[Simba's Mom]

The driver struggled with the belt, had issues initializing the system, kept blaming my chair and finally said “that’s good enough”

Somehow, hearing the person who's supposed to keep me safe for a while say "that's good enough" wouldn't give me a very comfortable feeling.

 

[Yinn]

Just wondering…What type of ECV did you have? Were you sitting on the ECV and waiting at the back ADA entrance where the ramp to the bus is deployed? Or was the ECV folded and you were at the front door waiting to get on the bus?

The Journey Zoomer, same one that I had a positive experience in, I was waiting for the bus sitting in the chair - same as before. The only difference IMO was really the attitude of the driver.

Somehow, hearing the person who's supposed to keep me safe for a while say "that's good enough" wouldn't give me a very comfortable feeling.

I definitely felt the same. I wiggled the chair and it didn’t move, and I couldn’t really tell a difference from how I was held the 1st and the 2nd time. IMO, he had a tough shift - maybe traffic was worse, maybe he just got cut off, I’m not sure..I’m just happy that wasn’t my first ride in one. The first guy was very helpful in guiding me.

Just want to clarify, I never felt he was doing it in a mean manner or directing it towards me. If he was, I would’ve complained. He was clearly frustrated at something, and I’m willing to give some good will as we can have situations

 

[Goldelpack]

The Journey Zoomer, same one that I had a positive experience in, I was waiting for the bus sitting in the chair - same as before. The only difference IMO was really the attitude of the driver.

I'm glad it ended with you safe! I think the issue is probably that the driver is looking at the Journey Zoomer not as a traditional ECV, but as a portable power wheelchair. While this isn't acceptable - I tend to think that the driver was confused as to what to do with it. I know the new system is not very friendly to chairs that aren't full size ECVs - as the wheel clamps need a very wide base.. but that's irrelevant. We can just hope they've had good safe training in best practice for this type of equipment

 

[Yinn]

I'm glad it ended with you safe! I think the issue is probably that the driver is looking at the Journey Zoomer not as a traditional ECV, but as a portable power wheelchair. While this isn't acceptable - I tend to think that the driver was confused as to what to do with it. I know the new system is not very friendly to chairs that aren't full size ECVs - as the wheel clamps need a very wide base.. but that's irrelevant. We can just hope they've had good safe training in best practice for this type of equipment

On the comment of the wide wheel base or bigger wheels requirements I’ve seen in this thread, wanted to throw some numbers out to hopefully help folks.

My Zoomer has a 25” wheelbase with 10” rear wheels, where the clamps tighten up. It didn’t have any actual issues with the machines.

I also looked up my bus-mates Go Go Sport and it looks like that has a wheelbase of 21” with 9” wheels and it didn’t have any issues on my first ride.

I’m not sure how small they can get but figured those two reference points might help folks narrow it down as needed.

 

[LilyWDW]

I think this is key here, such a policy should indeed be adopted, I mean if somewhere as overly friendly as Dollywood is willing to adopt such a policy, Disney World certainly can do so. But then again, everyone there is respectful to begin with and when asked to love, they just do it, no fuss. I mean when leaving shows, those who are waking down stairs stop and wait for those who have disabilities to pass, a bunch of little things like that. DH has been very impressed by the attitude.

Not everyone at Dollywood is "overly friendly".

But also, who gets to decide what disability gets to have those seats? I'm disabled but I don't use a mobility device. However, if I am sitting in those seats and I get asked to move I will for sure be saying no. Standing on a moving mode of transportation is a lot different then walking and standing still. You do not want me standing on a moving bus because I will likely lose my balance and fall.

So, who decides? Also, I shouldn't be required to say more then "No" if I am asked. No one should have to tell anyone else their medical needs for this sort of thing.

 

[Evita_W]

Admittedly I'm not particularly familiar with Dollywood -- but "overly friendly" is very subjective. I don't think the elderly or disabled individual forced to vacate their seat would agree with that descriptor.

But they aren’t being forced to vacate their seats, as the seats are considered for them as well, but the the kids that were taking up the seats were forced to move, do note that there is no standing on their transportation, so they would still have a seat regardless.

 

[Evita_W]

Not everyone at Dollywood is "overly friendly".

But also, who gets to decide what disability gets to have those seats? I'm disabled but I don't use a mobility device. However, if I am sitting in those seats and I get asked to move I will for sure be saying no. Standing on a moving mode of transportation is a lot different then walking and standing still. You do not want me standing on a moving bus because I will likely lose my balance and fall.

So, who decides? Also, I shouldn't be required to say more then "No" if I am asked. No one should have to tell anyone else their medical needs for this sort of thing.

Again, there is no standing on the transportation, they run enough of it to ensure that isn’t necessary. Everyone gets a seat, they just may not have their preferred seat.

And yes, they are all overly friendly, didn’t find any that weren’t or even heard of any that weren’t. Very nice, kind and polite, I honestly wonder if them not selling alcohol really does make a difference.

 

[lanejudy]

But they aren’t being forced to vacate their seats, as the seats are considered for them as well, but the the kids that were taking up the seats were forced to move, do note that there is no standing on their transportation, so they would still have a seat regardless.

So then Dollywood is not necessarily enforcing that anyone in those seats must move as you implied. How do they determine who might have a disability and gets to stay in the seat? And what about children with a disability - why are they forced to move?

And yes, they are all overly friendly, didn’t find any that weren’t or even heard of any that weren’t.

That was your experience. Many guests at WDW will tell you all they encountered was friendly helpful CMs.

 

[Evita_W]

So then Dollywood is not necessarily enforcing that anyone in those seats must move as you implied. How do they determine who might have a disability and gets to stay in the seat? And what about children with a disability - why are they forced to move?


That was your experience. Many guests at WDW will tell you all they encountered was friendly helpful CMs.

I didn’t say children with a disability were forced to move, I said that they made those who do not need those seats move for those that do. Again, everyone still gets a seat, but those seats are the only ones that a mobility device can go on, so yes, they make them move. It may seem like semantics, but the point was, they do make people move out of the seats when they are needed, but again they also run enough vehicles to ensure no one has to stand, in fact it simply isn’t allowed.

Also, I am not just referring to CMs, I mean guest and employees alike were all extremely friendly and helpful all around, no fights, no major issues, etc. just people being kind and respectful. Sure, there might have been someone somewhere who wasn’t to someone else, but never saw it, never heard anyone claim such a thing.

 

[lanejudy]

everyone still gets a seat

So the buses are never full? There are always at least 3 empty seats? What happens if my family and I sit in the seats for disabled, we are asked to move but I state one of us has a disability. You can’t have it both ways — either the drivers do force an ambulatory disabled individual to move or they don’t always make people vacate those seats.

 

[Betty Rohrer]

So then Dollywood is not necessarily enforcing that anyone in those seats must move as you implied. How do they determine who might have a disability and gets to stay in the seat? And what about children with a disability - why are they forced to move?


That was your experience. Many guests at WDW will tell you all they encountered was friendly helpful CMs.

From what we have found on the trams driver will not let anyone without wheelchair or ECV broad there to begin with we had to fold and lift his rollator into the seating area

 

[Evita_W]

So the buses are never full? There are always at least 3 empty seats? What happens if my family and I sit in the seats for disabled, we are asked to move but I state one of us has a disability. You can’t have it both ways — either the drivers do force an ambulatory disabled individual to move or they don’t always make people vacate those seats.

No, they fill the busses, leaving room for wheelchairs, they don’t overfill their busses, they don’t have standing room and the longest wait was about 10 minutes during a shift change, otherwise they were continuous and they knew just how many they had to keep running.

 

[Evita_W]

From what we have found on the trams driver will not let anyone without wheelchair or ECV broad there to begin with we had to fold and lift his rollator into the seating area

This is generally true, there was once where it was not the first stop and there were people sitting in these seats, they were moved to other seats, they always leave enough room for these seats to be used, at least that’s what we saw in this instance.

 

[EeyoreJMH]

I had the new busses a couple of times this past April. My personal Pride Revo 2.0 fit just fine. It was much easier to get off the bus with it compared to the old busses. Boarding took a little more time, but it wasn’t bad. Plus, they fit 3 of us, which was helpful at the end of the day.

 

[Mennamachine]

This is generally true, there was once where it was not the first stop and there were people sitting in these seats, they were moved to other seats, they always leave enough room for these seats to be used, at least that’s what we saw in this instance.

You just can't compare Dollywood, which gets ~3 million visitors per year to its one park, one hotel, one water park, and 1 Stampede to Walt Disney World, which gets about 28 million visitors per year to its 4 parks, many hotels, shopping area, 2 mini golf courses, 2 water parks, etc. Even accounting for the fact that Dollywood Park is closed ~4 months of the year. There are logistical hurdles when we are comparing things on that scale that just aren't surmountable. Not everything scales linearly. While I think Disney could improve in a variety of areas, I don't know that their transportation system can be improved much beyond weeding out/retraining bad employees (which will always be an ongoing process). But comparing Dollywood and Disney World is not an apples to apples comparison. Comparing WDW to even DLP or TDL is not a 1:1 comparison. There is nothing really like WDW out there.

 

[jlundeen]

I haven't seen anything about the new buses lately - have they completely replaced the older ones and have there been any other issues with scooters or wheelchair loading/unloading? I haven't been there since they were first introduced so never tried using them.