New buses coming in early 2024 - ECV restrictions

[bluecruiser]

Heard this today directly from a Disney bus driver who participated in the training that bus drivers received for the new buses. According to him the buses will start rolling out into use in January 2024.

He says the new buses have pressurized "arms" that will hold ECVs in place instead of the hook and belt system on current buses. Due to this new system there is less space for each ECV, resulting in the following restrictions:

• ECV's must back onto the bus
• No rear baskets are permitted
• No sun shades attached to the back
• No heavy duty ECVs such as those with higher weight capacities (e.g., Pride Maxima)

The driver said they have been in touch with the ECV vendors so they can prepare. I'll check with my vendor tomorrow (I'm trying Gold Mobility for the first time this trip) to see what they say.

I hope this isn't true, but if it is, my days visiting WDW may be over since I must use a heavy duty ECV due to my weight, and it sounds like Disney has no way to accommodate us any longer. I will be contacting DVC member services once I know more from Gold Mobility. If I stop visiting WDW I'll be selling my DVC points as well.

Curious what anyone else has heard about the new buses coming soon?

 

[bobbiwoz]

I think that would be awful.

 

[lanejudy]

There was some discussion not too long ago: https://www.disboards.com/threads/parking-scooter-on-bus.3932405/

Though I don’t recall mention of restricting the size/weight limit. I would think they need to comply with the basic standard “box” per ADA requirements for accessible transportation. Maybe the driver was confused…there is a LARGE ECV (not the Pride Maxima but bigger) that some vendor rents but it already isn’t allowed on WDW buses because it is too big.

 

[Evita_W]

Sounds like they are planning on getting the busses that Disneyland has been using for the Toy Story lot as of late and they are absolutely awful, also you can only fit one scooter on, even though there are two spaces. They also accommodate a lot more people and feel much more crowded, so I really hope that isn't what they are going to get.

As for the OP, I would think that if the Maxima's aren't going to be allowed, the scooter rental companies will find ways to adapt. it may speed up Gold Mobility's new scooter design, the last DH has heard they believe they have found a seat for it that will allow it to have a 650 lb weight capacity with a similar size to the Pride Victory 10.2, actually slightly smaller overall foot print. But if not, there are newer scooter models coming out with smaller sizes and higher weight capacity, so it is possible they will switch to them.

I could also see Disney keeping some of the older busses in circulation for those with larger devices than can fit on the new ones and you may be able to specifically request them, it I would think they would have to find a way to accommodate at least through the Maxima in size. Of course the accessible Minnie Vans can accommodate them as well, but can you imagine how much demand that would place on that option if the busses could no.longer accommodate them?

 

[SteveMouse]

By law, Disney needs to accommodate gross weights no less than 600 pounds between wheelchair and user. They can, but are not required, to support more.

 

[Lewisc]

By law, Disney needs to accommodate gross weights no less than 600 pounds between wheelchair and user. They can, but are not required, to support more.

Pride Victory weighs 511 lbs, including a 350 lb guest.

 

[lanejudy]

The

By law, Disney needs to accommodate gross weights no less than 600 pounds between wheelchair and user. They can, but are not required, to support more.

The device (wheelchair/ECV) also must fit within 30" x 48" for transportation, which is a smaller box than WDW allows for mobility devices within the parks.

 

[Evita_W]

Pride Victory weighs 511 lbs, including a 350 lb guest.

For the rental market, they can substantially reduce the weight of the Pride Victory by switching to Lithium Batteries and by changing the chair, there are lighter weight captains chairs than those currently on use.

So, there are options to allow for heavier guests with the Pride scooters and considering the Pride scooters have a maximum weight higher than 350 lbs, it would be smart to make that work. The weight of the lighter batteries can drop from approximately 70 lbs total for the Interstate Batteries that Gold Mobility uses down to about 20 lbs total for lithium for a about a 50 lb savings. By changing the captains chair to another make of captains chair that is just as comfortable, you can shave off another 20 lbs or so.

For the Maxima models, you go from about 75 lbs for the batteries down to about 25 lbs. not sure if there are light chair options there though.

So, there are definitely steps that can be taken to go lighter and one would hope that Disney would go more than the bare minimum, it not too confident in that considering the way they have gone as of late, it does seem that their new key of "inclusiveness" doesn't always cover those with disabilities or those of size as of late, hopefully this turns out to be the start of Disney correcting that though.

 

[Evita_W]

The

The device (wheelchair/ECV) also must fit within 30" x 48" for transportation, which is a smaller box than WDW allows for mobility devices within the parks.

Which even the Maxima fits within that size limit, the weight could be more of an issue, but as I said, there are ways to combat that issue as well. Of course that size limit would definitely prohibit any accessories on a Maxima

 

[starlite_]

So, there are definitely steps that can be taken to go lighter and one would hope that Disney would go more than the bare minimum, it not too confident in that considering the way they have gone as of late, it does seem that their new key of "inclusiveness" doesn't always cover those with disabilities or those of size as of late, hopefully this turns out to be the start of Disney correcting that though.

Can you explain this part pls? I would think it's on guests to be informed and bring an ECV/ Wheelchair that meets the requirements. Same as bringing a stroller that meets the size requirements for example. What am I missing?

 

[Lewisc]

Switching to

For the rental market, they can substantially reduce the weight of the Pride Victory by switching to Lithium Batteries and by changing the chair, there are lighter weight captains chairs than those currently on use.

So, there are options to allow for heavier guests with the Pride scooters and considering the Pride scooters have a maximum weight higher than 350 lbs, it would be smart to make that work. The weight of the lighter batteries can drop from approximately 70 lbs total for the Interstate Batteries that Gold Mobility uses down to about 20 lbs total for lithium for a about a 50 lb savings. By changing the captains chair to another make of captains chair that is just as comfortable, you can shave off another 20 lbs or so.

For the Maxima models, you go from about 75 lbs for the batteries down to about 25 lbs. not sure if there are light chair options there though.

So, there are definitely steps that can be taken to go lighter and one would hope that Disney would go more than the bare minimum, it not too confident in that considering the way they have gone as of late, it does seem that their new key of "inclusiveness" doesn't always cover those with disabilities or those of size as of late, hopefully this turns out to be the start of Disney correcting that though.

Rental companies are concerned with purchase price, durability and useful life. Lithium batteries, in that context, are inferior to SLA. I'm not sure about light weight chairs.

I doubt Scooterbug will be required to make the changes you offer. I doubt other vendors do it either.

 

[lanejudy]

For the rental market, they can substantially reduce the weight…

If a model is deemed inappropriate for transport (presumably for size or weight), I highly doubt they will differentiate vendorA vs vendorB vs personally-owned.

 

[Groot]

Heard this today directly from a Disney bus driver who participated in the training that bus drivers received for the new buses. According to him the buses will start rolling out into use in January 2024.

That soon? Wow, how many buses are they gonna get initially and are they gonna replace the entire fleet? (Which is no small task).

He says the new buses have pressurized "arms" that will hold ECVs in place instead of the hook and belt system on current buses.

Oh, I think I know what you mean. Not many mass transit systems have em, but they are pretty cool and would cut down waiting times for securing a mobility device.


Here’s how it works:

Due to this new system there is less space for each ECV, resulting in the following restrictions:

• ECV's must back onto the bus
• No rear baskets are permitted
• No sun shades attached to the back
• No heavy duty ECVs such as those with higher weight capacities (e.g., Pride Maxima)

A few issues that I see there:

1. Not many people who rent scooters are really good with getting em on/off the bus and if you HAVE TO back up on the ramp (which pretty much EVERY wheelchair/scooter manufacturer recommends that you DON’T) that’s a major red flag and safety issue.

2. Understandable with no more rear baskets and sunshades. Some of them (depending on scooter model) can REALLY make em long.

3. Then what would the people who need that specific make/model do? Any reason why they’re not allowed?

By law, Disney needs to accommodate gross weights no less than 600 pounds between wheelchair and user. They can, but are not required, to support more.

I hope that the buses have 800 lb. ramp/lift since a lot of the higher end powerchairs (Quantum, Quickie, Permie, etc.) have additional features like foward/backward tilt, recline, electric legrests, seat lifts, and some can even make you stand up, which adds CONSIDERABLE weight to the chair.

Sounds like they are planning on getting the busses that Disneyland has been using for the Toy Story lot as of late and they are absolutely awful, also you can only fit one scooter on, even though there are two spaces. They also accommodate a lot more people and feel much more crowded, so I really hope that isn't what they are going to get.

Oof, really? Like only 1 secured point on the ENTIRE BUS for a mobility device to be tied down to? Do you have a pic of em?

As for the OP, I would think that if the Maxima's aren't going to be allowed, the scooter rental companies will find ways to adapt. it may speed up Gold Mobility's new scooter design, the last DH has heard they believe they have found a seat for it that will allow it to have a 650 lb weight capacity with a similar size to the Pride Victory 10.2, actually slightly smaller overall foot print. But if not, there are newer scooter models coming out with smaller sizes and higher weight capacity, so it is possible they will switch to them.

I don’t really like Gold’s scooter design. To me it looks extremely top heavy and hard to turn.

I could also see Disney keeping some of the older busses in circulation for those with larger devices than can fit on the new ones and you may be able to specifically request them, it I would think they would have to find a way to accommodate at least through the Maxima in size.

But wouldn’t that lead to an even longer wait time for those buses?

Of course the accessible Minnie Vans can accommodate them as well, but can you imagine how much demand that would place on that option if the busses could no longer accommodate them?

Yeah, and I don’t think a lot of people would want to pay for that service when they used to be able to ride the buses for free.

 

[jo-jo]

This backing up on buses sounds awful.

Some time ago, there was a thread that you now needed to back up on the monorail. Did that occur?

 

[Evita_W]

Switching to

Rental companies are concerned with purchase price, durability and useful life. Lithium batteries, in that context, are inferior to SLA. I'm not sure about light weight chairs.

I doubt Scooterbug will be required to make the changes you offer. I doubt other vendors do it either.

Actually, Lifepo4 batteries come with 5-11 year warranties and have come down substantially in price, the Lifepo4 batteries actually have a much better usable life to price performance than SLA now. And I am not saying they would be required, I am just saying they could and there are steps that can be taken.

 

[Evita_W]

Can you explain this part pls? I would think it's on guests to be informed and bring an ECV/ Wheelchair that meets the requirements. Same as bringing a stroller that meets the size requirements for example. What am I missing?

Read my entire post, I did explain how you can make the ECVs lighter.

 

[Evita_W]

That soon? Wow, how many buses are they gonna get initially and are they gonna replace the entire fleet? (Which is no small task).

Oh, I think I know what you mean. Not many mass transit systems have em, but they are pretty cool and would cut down waiting times for securing a mobility device.
View attachment 815520

Here’s how it works:
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View attachment 815523
View attachment 815524

A few issues that I see there:

1. Not many people who rent scooters are really good with getting em on/off the bus and if you HAVE TO back up on the ramp (which pretty much EVERY wheelchair/scooter manufacturer recommends that you DON’T,) that’s a major red flag and safety issue.

2. Understandable with no more rear baskets and sunshades. Some of them (depending on scooter model) can REALLY make em long.

3. Then what would the people who need that specific make/model do? Any reason why the’re not allowed?

I hope that the buses have 800 lb. ramps/lifts since a lot of the higher end powerchairs (Quantum, Quickie, Permie, etc.) have additional features like foward/backward tilt, recline, electric legrests, seat lifts, and some can even make you stand up, which adds CONSIDERABLE weight to the chair.

Oof, really? Like only 1 secured point on the ENTIRE BUS for a mobility device to be tied down to? Do you have a pic of em?

I don’t really like Gold’s scooter design. To me it looks extremely top heavy and hard to turn.

But wouldn’t that lead to an even longer wait time for those buses?

Yeah, and I don’t think a lot of people would want to pay for that service when they used to be able to ride the buses for free.

Gold's scooter (their model, not the Victory 10.2 or Maxima) was designed by Bob Gurr (yes, that Bob Gurr that designed and built many Disney and other attractions, including much of Disneyland's Main Street Vehicles) specifically with theme parks in mind and is actually extremely easy to turn (as it was designed to be), can take much more abuse than others. If there is anyone I would trust to design a scooter for theme parks, it would be Bob Gurr.

As for the busses that Disneyland uses for the Toy Story Lot, there are two tie down spaces, but they are so close together that only one of them can be used at a time, it is just a very poor design.

And yes, keeping older busses would lead to longer wait time for them, but I don't think there will be any choice.

And while people wouldn't want to pay for the Minnie Van service, what choice would someone who needs say a Maxima have if the new busses can't accommodate them?

And yes, requiring people to backup on to the ramps is definitely a major concern from a safety issue considering virtually every manufacturer does indeed say not to do so.

I do foresee some push back on no more sunshades, although they are generally pretty useless in DH and my experience, there are inexpensive UV umbrellas that can be attached to the handle bars on ECVs and/or to arm rest on wheelchairs, etc. that work far better and wouldn't be an issue with length as they can just be taken off quickly when necessary.

The OP said that the bus driver was saying that Maximas and larger wouldn't be allowed, but I still fail to see how they could bar Maximas when they fit within the ADA allowable size.

As for weight limit, I would hope they equip the buses with equipment with at least a 1,500 lb weight limit and advertise a substantially lower weight limit like 800 lbs. There are a couple of reasons behind this:

1. There will always be people who will lie about their total weight.
2. If they install equipment say rated at 800 lbs and advertise 800 lbs, it won't be durable enough given the amount of use the equipment will get. Remember these devices are designed for public transit where the routes will see 2 or 3 wheelchair users all day given the lengths of the routes, number of times each bus travels the route, etc. At Disney World, they will likely have 30+ mobility users per bus throughout the day given the frequency and number of people who use mobility devices, so they need to massively overdo it, otherwise there is going to be constantly broken equipment.

 

[starlite_]

Read my entire post, I did explain how you can make the ECVs lighter.

I did read it. But your last paragraph implies it's on Disney to make the ECVs lighter, which is what I don't understand.

 

[Evita_W]

If a model is deemed inappropriate for transport (presumably for size or weight), I highly doubt they will differentiate vendorA vs vendorB vs personally-owned.

I doubt they could exclude certain models, if it fits within ADA requirements of maximum weight of 600 lbs and within the required space, then it would be illegal for them to exclude it. I would hope though that Disney is smarter than trying to disallow Maximas. Sure larger makes sense that they wouldn't be allowed, but Maximas fit within the ADA box. And as I said in my previous post, I would hope they would go with a much heavier weight limit than 600 lbs for various reasons. This again would eliminate the need to come up with the trickier solutions and figuring out how to comply with the laws.

 

[Evita_W]

I did read it. But your last paragraph implies it's on Disney to make the ECVs lighter, which is what I don't understand.

No it doesn't imply that Disney is responsible for it at all, it implies that there are ways the rental companies can make them lighter.