new blog: DOJ: WDW Must Permit Segways in Theme Parks

[LeahZ]

http://www.disunplugged.com/2011/02/06/doj-wdw-must-permit-segways-in-theme-parks/

 

[Justin Jett]

 

[Cheshire Figment]

I have read the Federal Register discussing the revised ADA Regulations effective March 15, 2011. There are six full pages discussing Segways. The upshot is, unlike a wheelchair or ECV designed primarily for use by people with disabilities which must be allowed, the Segway is considered "An other mobility device" which may be allowed. And where a company cannot ask for proof of a disability for a wheelchair or ECV, a company may require proof of disability as well as set other restrictions.

And reading the blog all the way through, this does not actually require allowing Segways at this time.

 

[jcb]

I have read the Federal Register discussing the revised ADA Regulations effective March 15, 2011. There are six full pages discussing Segways. The upshot is, unlike a wheelchair or ECV designed primarily for use by people with disabilities which must be allowed, the Segway is considered "An other mobility device" which may be allowed. And where a company cannot ask for proof of a disability for a wheelchair or ECV, a company may require proof of disability as well as set other restrictions.

And reading the blog all the way through, this does not actually require allowing Segways at this time.

Since we have already discussed this topic in the threads, I tried not to go into the regulations too much (the post was long enough as it is!) except as they were relied upon in the court documents but you are right that the regulations are effective March 15, 2011 and that they do create a different status for "other mobility devices." To the DOJ it doesn't really matter because their view is the judge incorrectly dismissed the lawsuit in the first place.

My point on what a company may require as proof that a Segway is necessary was meant to demonstrate that the regulations (on this point) are so far outside the norm that it seems that litigation counsel for the DOJ hasn't fully grasped their impact.

 

[ScotteHansen]

I guess I don't see the big deal. I've seen a people on an ECVs be a knuckle heads from time to time in how they are operating them. I am sure it will be the same way with someone on a segway.

99.999 percent of the time though people are very cautious in their operation of their mobility device ECV, wheelchair or otherwise. I think Disneys fears are a bit over reactive in the dangers a segway poses. I think the vast majority of segway users will be fine.

Here is the way I see it. Lets say I am a "reckless mobility device user." If I rev my ECV up to fifty and plow over somebody, they get creamed and I am pretty much ok. If I am on a segway and do that, I am going to go flying off my segway and hit hard.

I think people on segways have more reasons to be cautious than ECV folks. So why not just let them in and move on?

Scotte

 

[kaligal]

It's a step in the right direction.

One day, people who can stand, but can't walk, will be legally entitled to use the mobility device that offers them their best option. It is unfortunate, IMO, that it will require a blessed LAW to get people to let them do this, but I think it'll happen.

 

[Justin Jett]

From the newly published ADA Regulations:

http://www.ada.gov/regs2010/smallbusiness/smallbusprimer2010.htm#wheelchairs

Devices categorized as wheelchairs must be permitted.

Businesses must consider these factors in determining whether reasonable modifications can be made to admit other power-driven mobility devices to their premises:

•The type, size, weight, dimensions, and speed of the device;
•The business's volume of pedestrian traffic (which may vary at different times of the day, week, month, or year);
•The business's design and operational characteristics, such as its square footage, whether it is indoors or outdoors, its placement of stationery equipment or devices or furniture, and whether it has storage space for the device if requested by the customer;
•Whether legitimate safety standards can be established to permit the safe operation of the device; and
•Whether the use of the device creates a substantial risk of serious harm to the environment or natural or cultural resources or poses a conflict with Federal land management laws and regulations.


It is likely that many businesses will allow the use of Segways® generally, although some may decide to exclude them during their busiest hours or on particular shopping days when pedestrian traffic is particularly dense. Businesses are encouraged to develop written policies specifying when other power-driven mobility devices will be permitted on their premises and to communicate those policies to the public.

Businesses may ask individuals using an other power-driven mobility device for a credible assurance that the device is required because of a disability. An assurance may include, but does not require, a valid State disability parking placard or other Federal or State-issued proof of disability. A verbal assurance from the individual with a disability that is not contradicted by your observation is also considered a credible assurance. It is not permissible to ask individuals about their disabilities.

Cheshire Figment recently posted Disney's New Swgway Policy:

For safety reasons, Walt Disney Parks & Resorts policy does not allow guests to operate Segways on our property, except in designated areas.

Due to a new Department of Justice rule, a guest may inquire as to why his or her Segway is not permitted. We have performed a safety analysis considering the factors set forth in the Department of Justice rule and determined that unrestricted Segway use is not safe within our environment, enabling our existing policy to remain in effect. Wheelchairs and electric convenience vehicles (ECVs) are available for the comfort of our guests.

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2677915

 

[lugnut33]

So how am I going to see the fireworks over all those people standing on their Segways?

Heck, I can barely see over all the 6'-6" people who always seem to stand in front of me.



Sort of said tongue in cheek

 

[jcb]

Interesting.

I'm sure there is no connection but this was posted on the Disney Parks blog today:

It is an "experimental entry configuration to see if it simplifies park entry."

 

[DisneyKevin]

It's a step in the right direction.

One day, people who can stand, but can't walk, will be legally entitled to use the mobility device that offers them their best option. It is unfortunate, IMO, that it will require a blessed LAW to get people to let them do this, but I think it'll happen.

I beg of you....

Spend a crowded day in any Disney park riding an ECV and tell me you feel that those riding a Segway or those walking in front of a Segway will be safe.

People who can stand, but not walk, already have options. Wheelchairs and ECVs stop and allow guests to stand at will.

This will all change when people riding Segways are injured because of idiots that jump in front of them or when the idiots that jump in front of ECVs and Segways are injured.

In my personal opinion....that second part is just thinning the herd.

 

[chris31997]

Okay I did not read all that was posted on this nor did I read the links, so if I say something already said I'm sorry.

Where I live the security have them and some of the walking tours use them. But they cannot go everywhere. In fact when a tour comes through, the tour takes up the whole sidewalk making it difficult for pedistrians. I totally agree with Disney keeping them out of the park. Disney would be asking for trouble from someone who was being stupid. Just think how many people rent a wheelchair and either pop wheelies in them or let their kids ride in them. The samething would happen with the seqways and than people would blame Disney. Or if for some reason, the person could not get the segway to go where they wanted due to the hill or whatever, than Disney was not totally accesible to them.

 

[WaltD4Me]

Interesting.

I'm sure there is no connection but this was posted on the Disney Parks blog today:

It is an "experimental entry configuration to see if it simplifies park entry."

I saw this today too, but I think it's mainly to cut down on lines, so that when you are in behind the guy who can't find his park ticket you can go to another scanner.

I am amazed by Segway decision. Those things go pretty darn fast. I can't imagine using one in a crowded park.

 

[jcb]

I am amazed by Segway decision. Those things go pretty darn fast. I can't imagine using one in a crowded park.

Just to clarify, there hasn't been any "decision". (That's what I get for using a sensational headline.) The DOJ has taken a position in the Segway litigation. It is up to the judge whether to adopt it or not - and the judge could issue a ruling without ever addressing the issue.

It isn't going to go away, however.

 

[WaltD4Me]

Just to clarify, there hasn't been any "decision". (That's what I get for using a sensational headline.) The DOJ has taken a position in the Segway litigation. It is up to the judge whether to adopt it or not - and the judge could issue a ruling without ever addressing the issue.

It isn't going to go away, however.

Mostly my fault, I'm at work at didn't read the actual blog with all the info.

 

[dansyr2514]

I honestly don't know the answer to this...

To me, it would seem that a segway would be dangerous for someone with mobility issues. Kevin mentioned if someone stepped out in front of the person on the segway. I would think that someone could get injured more easily falling off a segway than an ecv. I do not have mobility issues and I tried the segway at innoventions and I didn't feel very steady on it. I don't know if I have an actual question but was hoping someone who has more experience with this could comment.

 

[SamSam]

Personally I feel the Segways are much more of a hazard in crowds than an ECV. I've ridden one twice (on tours) and each time someone in the group lost control, but because the areas we were in were empty at the time it wasn't a hazard to other people.

 

[sjbond]

I think the thing I'd be most worried about would be "line of sight". At least ECV users are lower to the ground and have a better view, especially of the smaller children. Segway users are raised above the ground an additional 6"-12". I know that my 6'3" husband has some difficulty seeing the small children (age 3-6). Because of his height, they just slip through his peripheral vision and he sometimes "trips" over them. I can only figure that this would be compounded by a Segway travelling much faster than the average person walking.

I don't think they should be allowed in the busy parks. It's an accident waiting to happen.

 

[Cheshire Figment]

As many people may be aware, on September 15, 2010 the Department of Justice published a final rulemaking in the Federal Register related to major revisions of the Americans With Disabilities Act (ADA) which were to take effect on March 15, 2011. I read it; there were six full pages (of very small print) related to Segways as mobility devices.

Based on that, and other factors, the following official announcement was made earlier this week by Disney

For safety reasons, Walt Disney Parks and Resorts policy does not allow guests to operate Segways on our property, except in designated areas.
Due to a new Department of Justice rule, a guest may inquire as to why his or her Segway is not permitted. We have performed a safety analysis considering the factors set forth in the Department of Justice rule and determined that unrestricted Segway use is not safe within our environment, enabling our existing policy to remain in effect. Wheelchairs and electric convenience vehicles (ECVs) are available for the comfort of our guests.

And for those interested, WDPR is the level above WDW, DLR, DVC and DCL.

 

[jcb]

So does anyone know of any attempts to use a Segway in the parks on or after 3/15/2011. I figured the pro Segway crowd would be lined up at the turnstiles and then promptly sue but no lawsuit has been filed that I have seen.

 

[Justin Jett]

So does anyone know of any attempts to use a Segway in the parks on or after 3/15/2011. I figured the pro Segway crowd would be lined up at the turnstiles and then promptly sue but no lawsuit has been filed that I have seen.

The following was posted on DRAFT's website on March 14, 2011:

http://www.draft.org/DRAFTForums/tabid/56/aff/1/aft/95/afv/topic/Default.aspx