new annual pass program BLUES

[tlbwriter]

Let me ask you something - Have you ever called Disney? You know that question they ask you about how many times since 1998 you've been there? You know the survey's they take in the parks? You know the survey's they send in the mail? Why do you think they do this?

Obviously to gather information about their visitors. But how does this support your point?

Disney knows the average guest doesn't take more than 1 trip per calendar year, and therefore, will not buy an AP. But for you to say the AP holders are not valuable is just plain wrong. If they weren't valuable, they wouldn't sell the passes.

You're putting words in my mouth. Er, on my fingers. I never said AP holders weren't valuable. Just that they are not inherently more valuable than other visitors, in Disney's eyes. People on this thread and others were expressing dismay that Disney doesn't "respect and appreciate" them for their repeat business, and I was simply pointing out that Disney probably would throw more benefits and respect their way if they were their most profitable customers. And since that's not happening, well, you do that math.

I'm sorry, I can't argue with someone whose tag line I love so much. Let's agree to disagree.

 

[goofy4tink]

We speak of 'the bottom line' here.....obviously Disney is going to do nothing that is going to hurt their bottom line. They are in it to turn a profit. So....every time we stay in WDW we are tracked. Disney knows exactly who is spending what.....you have an AP? You have a room charge? Yep, I have to believe they track what people are spending and where they are spending it. If Disney believes that the AP holders are not as profitable as they could be, what with the perks we were given, then they will make it less desireable to have an AP. Does anyone really think that Disney particularly cares about the 'average' person and their feelings? Sure, people went ballistic when the did away with EE and 'gave us' those wonderful (yeah, sure) Character Caravans!!!! EMH came out and people stopped complaining. So, sure, they listen, but they listen through their pocketbooks. If they find, down the road, that they are losing money because of the BRP, they will do something else. Maybe even go back to the 'old way'. Who knows. But, they have, in their view, a very good reason for doing what they have done. They didn't do it to tick anyone off, they did it because it made good business sense to them. Will I miss being able to get my non-DVC stays at a nice discount? Sure. Hopefully, I'll be able to book them 60 days out. If now, well...maybe I'll rethink staying at a non-DVC resort.

 

[jann1033]

imo this whole thing is just another example of disney's love /hate relationship with their "guests" in general.ie, they "pride" themselves on customer relations but just have a problem with something, especailly if you are not there at wdw at the moment, and you will spend many stressful hrs trying to get it resolved. . look at all the customer incentive programs out there...disney doesn't feel they need to do that evidently and so really do not offer anything to frequent customers( except maybe for dvc,but since they already have their vacation money, imo not really the same as attracting repeat customers) . this current ap program is just another example of the disney lack of loyalty.

 

[cranbiz]

I am not crazy about the new program but it will not prevent me from renewing our AP's.

I use my AP for park entry, free parking and the DDE. I spend a great deal of time in the parks on my trips to the other house (frequently going down to Disney for dinner, a couple of attractions and fireworks) and with the FL resident discount, renewing is a no-brainer.

What the new program does, is keep me off site on my trips. I'll drive the 45 minutes from Deltona to Disney instead of getting a last minute room at AP rate (yes, I can get the FL resident discount). As I don't live there full time yet, I don't always know about the Resident discounts (and I don't frequent the resort boards often enough)

I would still renew even if all the perks were gone (except parking - if they take that one away I will be rethinking the way I visit) as I would still get my park admission for well under $10 a day.

 

[srfrgrl07]

Who do you think is a more valuable customer:

John who comes once a year, spends $700 for 7 nights at Pop Century, $250 on a 7 day MYW pass and $1,000 on food and souveniers.

----------------------------OR----------------------

Jack who comes 3 times a year, spends $400 on his AP, spends $1,500 on 21 nights at Pop Century, and $3,000 on food and souveniers.

John may average $278 a day versus Jack's $233 a day, but Jack is giving them $4,900 and John is only giving them $1,950.

This example clearly illustrates the frustration felt by AP holders, however I look at it this way:

John visits once a year for seven nights. He pays a total of $1950.00
Jack visits three times a year for a total of 21 nights. He spends $4900.

That's a difference of 14 nights between the two...figure that Bill is John's twin and visits once a year and spends $1950.00 also. And maybe their sister Jane does the same thing.

Now the amount of time John spent at the resort equals the amount of time spent by three "once a year" visitors. Combining the total costs of those three visitors equals more than the one repeat guest.

This of course is a simplistic example...if they factor in the costs associated with attracting new customers as opposed to retaining existing ones that would probably change the scenario. But it seems as though maybe maintaing that relationship has become difficult with the discounts not being as generous. And it's not as difficult to attract new customers because, let's face it, it's Disney and a very strong brand.

I'm not saying that AP holder's don't have a right to feel frustrated and underappreciated...I just think that from a business perspective they are thinking strategically and mixing up the way the promote their product. Remeber, the majority of AP holders were first time or once a year visitors at one point as well. I agree with most of the rationalizations presented by tlbwriter as I look at the business side of it mostly, while realizing that establishing and building customer relations has a hand in that.

They are listening to the feedback: booking window was changed to 60 days from 180 and now you can call and book over the phone between 2 and 5. Who knows what else they may adjust..I think they look at it one step at a time.

I also want to add that while everyone here believes that AP holders and FL residents visit WDW more often than guests that pay rack rate, I just don't think it is as true as you'd like to believe. The limited population on this board makes it appear that way, but WDW is a regular vacation destination for many people who do not read internet forums or don't spend as much time researching discount offers, etc or really just don't give much thought to it. Sure, there are families who have never been to Disney or only visited once or twice in their lifetime, but given the popularity I'm not sure how the numbers compare. Just a thought, though. I really don't have any data to support that, so please don't flame. It'd be an interesting bit of info, though. I'm sure Disney has a rough idea of the numbers

 

[sanfordx5]

when I went to WDW for the first time 14 yrs ago. It was trip we won, I had always said I would never go there I heard horrible stories of how busy they were. Then when I got there, Their customer service, attention, and detail to each quest was superb. They made you feel special and important, this continued for many years. Although, I have to say the past few years their customer service has decreased gone down hill. I felt so good going there that I recommended it to many friends and family. I helped planned many trips. Taken many of my childrens friends. I still love disney, but I wish they would continue to show loyalty to those of us who did go for that once in a lifetime trip, but instead became a part of their family of ap holders who return time and time again. Yes the perks were a big part of purchasing my AP, and as mentioned in other entries it allows us to make more trips which we then spend more money on other things. I look at it that if I spend less on my room I will then purchase more gifts for the kids, eat at more sit down meals and more snacks thru the day. Maybe even add in miniture golf, 18 holes of golf,mouse boats, or even a behind the scenes tour. With each trip I plan on $200.00 a day regaurdless!! Yes that is alot(but again I do have eight children, I don't always take all of them every time though) and if I am ahead in the middle of the trip I will add in things like the Hoop dee doo or back yard BBQ ect, ect..If I now have to spend more on the resort then I will I spend half the time there with alot less money and a little resentment that I couldn't get an AP rate so I will spend less on extra things on purpose. Things that will go are the things that us regulars purchase regularly TRADINSG PINS, hats, shirts, pressed pennies, stuffed animals, the little plastic $3.00 figures, charms, note pads, pens and then there are the regular snacks that would get cut out TURKEY LEGS, beaver tails, pineapple dole whips, popcorn, pastries in epcot, carmel apple, and so many more. I believe that if they are loyal to their regular guests, then their regular guests will be loyal to them and and stray to universal or sea world or many of the other attractions in the area.

 

[boomhauer]

I also want to add that while everyone here believes that AP holders and FL residents visit WDW more often than guests that pay rack rate, I just don't think it is as true as you'd like to believe. The limited population on this board makes it appear that way, but WDW is a regular vacation destination for many people who do not read internet forums or don't spend as much time researching discount offers, etc or really just don't give much thought to it. Sure, there are families who have never been to Disney or only visited once or twice in their lifetime, but given the popularity I'm not sure how the numbers compare. Just a thought, though. I really don't have any data to support that, so please don't flame. It'd be an interesting bit of info, though. I'm sure Disney has a rough idea of the numbers

You're probably right. Those people are basically just throwing money down the toilet without the AP.

For the record, I am VERY happy about what I get out of my AP. It costs me $400 and I get 25 days of us (if not more) per year, discounts off the room, discounts on dining, souveniers. My only gripe was, they were making it more difficult than necessary to access.

 

[boomhauer]

Obviously to gather information about their visitors. But how does this support your point?


You're putting words in my mouth. Er, on my fingers. I never said AP holders weren't valuable. Just that they are not inherently more valuable than other visitors, in Disney's eyes. People on this thread and others were expressing dismay that Disney doesn't "respect and appreciate" them for their repeat business, and I was simply pointing out that Disney probably would throw more benefits and respect their way if they were their most profitable customers. And since that's not happening, well, you do that math.

I'm sorry, I can't argue with someone whose tag line I love so much. Let's agree to disagree.

It supports my point because Disney is full well and aware of who is going to the parks and how many times a year. Clearly, there's not enough of a market to push for AP's.

I don't tihnk it's a question of being more valuable either. From the way I was reading it, it seemed as though you were saying AP holders were not valuable to Disney, and that's just not the case. They're just as valuable as any other guest. If they weren't, Disney would cut out AP's entirely. There's a reason they don't, and it's because they make money.

 

[WDW Poly Princess]

In my case, Disney is more likely to sell the expensive rooms if people are getting good discounts. I'm not sure if I can explain it clearly, but I'll try! As an example, I don't mind paying $240/nt for the Polynesian for 4 nights (totaling $960) because even though $960 is a lot of money, it's still a great deal on a resort where the rack rate is in the 300's. However, I'm having trouble rationalizing paying $100/nt for a value resort (the "you didn't book 60 days out" value season rate), which would only be $400 for 4 nights. So instead of Disney getting the $960 for those nights, they end up taking in nothing because I rented from a DVC owner instead. I'm sure I'm not the only AP holder taking that kind of route, so I can't see how Disney comes out ahead.

I agree that while they'd rather get $100/nt at a value from a non-passholder than $55 from a passholder, the nights when lots of extra rooms are sitting empty far outnumber the nights they're totally sold out, so it would be better for them to sell $55 rooms to AP people wanting a last minute trip than nothing at all, right?

 

[tlbwriter]

It supports my point because Disney is full well and aware of who is going to the parks and how many times a year. Clearly, there's not enough of a market to push for AP's.

I still don't see how this supports your point. Yes, Disney knows who goes to the parks and how often they go. They don't have to survey people to know who is using an AP and who bought a ticket. But I don't understand why you say there's not enough of a market to push for APs. Are you saying the market is saturated, and most people who visit more than once a year are using an AP?

I don't tihnk it's a question of being more valuable either. From the way I was reading it, it seemed as though you were saying AP holders were not valuable to Disney, and that's just not the case.

No, I didn't say that at all. I disagreed with AP holders who felt they were more valuable to Disney. Big difference.

They're just as valuable as any other guest.

Only Disney knows how true this is. I tend to believe that since Disney is not pushing the AP very hard, it must not be a big profit center for them. Right now, in my layman's opinion, it looks like they are focusing on attracting people who wouldn't normally stay onsite - the big perks they've added this year (ME, dining plan, +10 ADR window) are for onsite guests. These aren't targeted at AP holders, and the dining plan even excludes them. But on the AP side, while they've packaged the BRP to look like a perk, it doesn't work that way for a lot of people (nonrefundable deposit? no idea what your discount will be when you make a reservation, or if you'll even get a discount at all?), and many people feel it's simply a way to gain more control over the way AP holders reserve rooms. If Disney wanted more AP holders, they'd be coming up with new perks for them, the way they came up with new perks for onsite guests.

 

[arizonacolbys]

Only Disney knows how true this is. I tend to believe that since Disney is not pushing the AP very hard, it must not be a big profit center for them. Right now, in my layman's opinion, it looks like they are focusing on attracting people who wouldn't normally stay onsite - the big perks they've added this year (ME, dining plan, +10 ADR window) are for onsite guests. These aren't targeted at AP holders, and the dining plan even excludes them. But on the AP side, while they've packaged the BRP to look like a perk, it doesn't work that way for a lot of people (nonrefundable deposit? no idea what your discount will be when you make a reservation, or if you'll even get a discount at all?), and many people feel it's simply a way to gain more control over the way AP holders reserve rooms. If Disney wanted more AP holders, they'd be coming up with new perks for them, the way they came up with new perks for onsite guests.

I just wanted to add here that one more than one occassion Disney has recommended that we purchase an AP - when we made ressies at POP Century for 12 nights, we received an info packet in the mail & due to the length of stay, they recommended that we purchase the AP.

I think basically Disney's goal is always going to be to attract new guests with package deals, etc. It is always easier to keep current customers coming back (once they've gone & enjoyed it) than to draw up new customers. If Disney can keep it's old customers happy & entice more consumers to come down with a new package deal under $1500 for a family vacation than they are successful with their marketing strategies.

I don't feel that Disney thinks AP Holders are unimportant, I just feel that they are always in the market to gain new consumers.

 

[tlbwriter]

I just wanted to add here that one more than one occassion Disney has recommended that we purchase an AP - when we made ressies at POP Century for 12 nights, we received an info packet in the mail & due to the length of stay, they recommended that we purchase the AP.

That's interesting. I couldn't help but notice that when I made my reservation for this December, and they found out I had been there last December, that no one suggested I buy an AP so I could go back *next* December. It wouldn't take very much encouragement.

 

[DaveO]

I think poeple are only looking at the BRP from one point of view 'I can not book 2 weeks out, I have to do it 60 days out'. Well there are a LOT of poeple who can not go on short notice and did not want to hang around the boards waiting for AP rates to come out. The BRP does always give you a discount ... I have not seen one post that it gave someone the rack rate. On the contrary, I have seen post that BRP gave a good rate then it went DOWN after it was booked. I just booked the GF in October (I am AP and DVC) for over $100 per night less that Expedia for a January trip. Now if I had to wait until late Dec/Jan for the rates to come out I would not have made the trip. I think people are making a BIG assumption that just beacause you have to book 60 days out it makes it worse than the old way for most poeple.

Dave O.

 

[boomhauer]

I think alot of this depends on whom you speak with. When I bought my AP, it was on the recomendation of Disney. Why? Because they saw that I come down more than once a year.

They're not going to try and sell an AP to someone who doesn't take more than 1 trip per year.

Again, you can't look at profit margin in travel the same way you as other businesses. There's too many other variables, such as money you spend on food, souveniers, etc.

To me, the bottom line is, if Disney didn't find their AP holders valuable and there was not profit in it, they wouldn't sell them anymore.

 

[boomhauer]

That's interesting. I couldn't help but notice that when I made my reservation for this December, and they found out I had been there last December, that no one suggested I buy an AP so I could go back *next* December. It wouldn't take very much encouragement.

Why would they? That's an entire year apart. Unless you were going earlier in the month than you did the previous year, the AP wouldn't be valid. Even if you went the same week, it still wouldn't be valid. It's good from the first day you use it to exactly the same day a year later.

 

[cdpa4d]

It's now a "perk" with conditions. To take advantage of the Best Rate program (the only way to get an AP room discount now) you must book online

Not true anymore....you can call CRO between 2 and 5PM EST to get the BRP rates.

 

[jann1033]

Sure, there are families who have never been to Disney or only visited once or twice in their lifetime, but given the popularity I'm not sure how the numbers compare. Just a thought, though. I really don't have any data to support that, so please don't flame. It'd be an interesting bit of info, though. I'm sure Disney has a rough idea of the numbers

not scientific by any means but i can tell you my personal experience ...we know a lot of people well enough to know where and how they vacation( literally hundreds through our religion) and i know how many of them go to disney if at all. this is also across section of races, economic classes and regions but most have children/grandchildren.it is a pretty broad representation so it might be close to at least the US average

out of 100 people i am guesstimating:

most ( maybe 20%)of those who have gone to disney go for one day and stay off site a few times when their kids are small (i'd guess75% of these have fl relatives or fl timeshares ).by far most have never gone at all( i would guess at least 60%), a few go once for a week and stay onsite( maybe 6 % of the total), a few ( maybe 10%)go repeatedly for a week every 5-10 yrs, most of whom stay offsite also( 1/2). then the nuts like us who go repeatedly and stay onsite (4%)

so i think the amount of people in general going more than once a yr is skewked by these boards. we have only two friends out of hundreds who actually go more than us and stay onsite , we average every 2-3 yrs, they go every 12- 18 months

however the fact that most have never gone nor have any interest in going or only go for 1 day also shows the non dis type people are spending far less than the disney fanatics on boards like these and therefore while disney might try to attract them imo they are shooting themselves in the foot by alienating there loyal customers.

 

[jmclester]

It's now a "perk" with conditions. To take advantage of the Best Rate program (the only way to get an AP room discount now) you must book online

Not true anymore....you can call CRO between 2 and 5PM EST to get the BRP rates.

Thanks for the info. That will help because I get the feeling when you call and need help and you have booked online you are "up the creek".

 

[arizonacolbys]

Does anyone know if you still have to have a voucher in hand if you call CRO between 2 - 5 pm for the BRP Rate?? We usually buy our AP's at the SOG with a military discount - thanks!!

 

[boomhauer]

Does anyone know if you still have to have a voucher in hand if you call CRO between 2 - 5 pm for the BRP Rate?? We usually buy our AP's at the SOG with a military discount - thanks!!

I didn't.