New $500 Resale DVC Transfer Fee

Yeah I never understood why so many chooses NOT to use https://www.lttransfers.com/. They are cheaper and IMO just as good - or at least that’s my experience.

I used First American when I changed deeds to add my kids. It was who MA recommended.

I was in the process of buying RIv direct and wanted them on my Aug UY contract so it could be titled the same and be the same membership.

They were almost $300 more but because I was adding on, they pushed things through for me and it was only 2 weeks!

Unless you have a specific situation , it seems that they would be a good choice.

But, we also know that people have companies and agents that they feel go above and beyond and choose them.
 
I'll just add in some numbers. I believe that there are about 400 resale contracts recorded each month, give or take. So that's $2.5M total revenue for the year for doing existing work.
But for the sake of argument, let's say that $2.5 million is divided by the total number of DVC points. How much would that bring everybody's dues down?

AI estimates that there are ~100 million DVC points outstanding, so that would bring everyone's annual dues down by 2.5 cents per point. To put it another way, it would save somebody with a 150 point contract $3.75 per year in dues. Meaning that if they paid the $500 one-time fee for those "savings", the breakeven period would be 133 years.

And yeah, these are all back of the envelope calculations.
 
I'll just add in some numbers. I believe that there are about 400 resale contracts recorded each month, give or take. So that's $2.5M total revenue for the year for doing existing work.

We are seeing faster turn around times so it possible that they have decided to increase the staffing in that department to ensure these transfers happen quickly.

It has always been a frustration for how long it can take…

Now, we don’t have all the details, but if we start seeing this timeline become the norm with the new fee, then some may see it as a positive.

I will say that with a fee, it certainly gives buyers a reason to expect it to be faster and not take a month or more to transfer.
 
I really do wonder if DVD is thinking this fee might drive people to handle their own transactions without brokers.

DVD is the one confirming state of contract and setting up the new account. So if push comes to shove, people can trim costs by creating ways for buyers and sellers to find each other without a broker.

View attachment 1029130
If you’re an experienced buyer and seller of DVC contracts then sure but if you are a first timer or would benefit from broker marketing then going it alone could be messy.
 

I'll just add in some numbers. I believe that there are about 400 resale contracts recorded each month, give or take. So that's $2.5M total revenue for the year for doing existing work.
So somewhere around 1% of gross annual revenue, not a lot but not nothing.

one question that would help justify it would be the year over year changes. Has it gone from 100/month 5 years ago to 400 now? There must be a reason for suddenly doing it now and going from $0 to $500 all at once. Or it could just be some random dude in finance who had to explain increased cost in the processing department...hmm all the resale processes must cost something, let's blame them....one off hand comment on a variance report 6 months ago leads to a new FAQ and $500 fee today. I have seen very similar things happen in big companies, where the pressure to explain and remedy (mostly minor) variances from budget is great.
 
I used First American when I changed deeds to add my kids. It was who MA recommended.

I was in the process of buying RIv direct and wanted them on my Aug UY contract so it could be titled the same and be the same membership.

They were almost $300 more but because I was adding on, they pushed things through for me and it was only 2 weeks!

Unless you have a specific situation , it seems that they would be a good choice.

But, we also know that people have companies and agents that they feel go above and beyond and choose them.
Most ppl want cheap but fast and lt transfer perform well in those regards. They charge between $275-$450 for closing. However years back they didn’t provide title insurance don’t know about that today.
 
I really do wonder if DVD is thinking this fee might drive people to handle their own transactions without brokers.

DVD is the one confirming state of contract and setting up the new account. So if push comes to shove, people can trim costs by creating ways for buyers and sellers to find each other without a broker.

View attachment 1029130
I think this is how they always intended things to be. Not for there to be wide resale market like in the pre social media days.
 
If you’re an experienced buyer and seller of DVC contracts then sure but if you are a first timer or would benefit from broker marketing then going it alone could be messy.
Yeah broker service is here to stay but with this new fee it is easier to cut them out of loop than DVD lol, especially if costs are a growing concern.

Just like people do with rentals, they could copy existing contracts to follow. The title insurance and DVD does the heavy lifting where verification is concerned. DVD confirms the state and existence of the contract and handles setting up the transferred ownership. The title insurance confirms it is free and clear of defects, forgeries, liens, etc and handles escrow.
 
@Sandisw take a look at 721.13 it is saying that when a timeshare is also a condominium that the HOA and the management company they hire for day to day operations, are considered co-managers. The HOA can’t sever their duties to protect the fiduciary interests of the buyers just because they have outsourced the daily tasks. To me this reads as the HOA can’t throw their hands up and blame the management company. Their responsibility remains. They are “jointly and severally” responsible.
 
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@Sandisw take a look at 721.13 it is saying that when a timeshare is also a condominium that the HOA and the management company they hire for day to day operations, are considered co-managers. The HOA can’t sever their duties to protect the fiduciary interests of the buyers just because they have outsourced the daily tasks. To me this reads as the HOA can’t throw their hands up and blame the management company. Their responsibility remains. They are “jointly and severally” responsible.

Let me take a look at that and get back to you!

ETA: My reading of this is that the board of the assocation are still responsible for the actions of the management company when they are excuting the duties they were hired to do...which is operate and manage the program....the day to day stuff assocatied with the vacation plan.

For example, when DVCMC made the moves they did in 2019 to increase the lock off premium by increases both studios and one bedrooms, that added points out of thin air, that is something the assocation would still be held responsbile for as DVCMC is acting on their behalf for creating the point charts. And that is something that the assocation passed only to DVCMC to handle.

DVCMC is performing duties for both the operation of the resort...which is paid for by the 12% management fee...and is also tasked with performing the adminstrative duties for DVD when it comes to the selling and transferring of the timeshare interests.

These are two parts of the program that exist, but don't appear to fall under the same umbrella.

I don't see one having anything to do with the other, expect for the fact that the same company performs both tasks. It doesn't appear that the assocation is responsible for the sale or transfer of ownership interests. That is DVD's responsbilitley

I just don't see how DVCMC deciding to charge buyers/sellers a fee to handle the administrative work they are doing when someone is buying the product means they are not meeting a fiduciary duties to owners, when that is not something that is part of the operation and management of the resort, which is what is the responsilbity of the condo assocation.

ETA2: If the notion is that since DVCMC manages the resort for us, they shouldn't be allowed to do DVD's work as well? I don't see anything in the timeshare law that prohibts the developer to use the same managing entity to handled sales/transfers that the assocations hire to handle the implementation of the vacation plan....

ETA3: Based on some of what is posted below, the amount might be something that needs scrutiny...so, when I ask about this next week, we shall see what they give us in defining what this actually is for...
 
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@Sandisw take a look at 721.13 it is saying that when a timeshare is also a condominium that the HOA and the management company they hire for day to day operations, are considered co-managers. The HOA can’t sever their duties to protect the fiduciary interests of the buyers just because they have outsourced the daily tasks. To me this reads as the HOA can’t throw their hands up and blame the management company. Their responsibility remains. They are “jointly and severally” responsible.
Ooh - joint and several. There’s 2 weeks worth of law school jammed into that term alone!
 
Some additional information relating to my previous post on the possible illegality of the transfer fee. I have been trying to find any agency or other rulings on the application of §718.112(2)(i), prohibiting transfer fees for resales or leases of condo interests unless the declarations, bylaws, or articles of incorporation, provide that the association is required to approve any such transaction and the amount of the transfers fees to be charged are expressly stated in one of those governing documents. I have not found any specific court case rulings but there is a ruling by the Florida condominium, timeshare, and mobile homes agency that is instructive.

In Potts v. Shell Island Beach Club Association, Inc., Case No. 2009-02-0900, the Florida Condominiums, Timeshares, and Mobile Homes Agency ruled on which statute applied to a claim for timeshare condominiums, the timeshare statute or the condominium statute. §718.112 has many different provisions applicable to condominiums and specifically states as to a few of the things in the statute, such as whether the association can prohibit proxy votes for issues to be determined at annual meetings and who could actually vote at meetings, that the statute expressly provided that those sections did not apply to timeshare condominiums. The agency ruled that the exceptions for timeshare condominiums applied solely to the specific sections in the statute that provided for that exception and only the condominium rules applied to any other sections in the statute. The Transfer Fees section of the statute does not provide any exception for timeshare condominiums, and thus it should apply to timeshare condominiums.

Of additional note, the §718.112 statute was in existence in 1990 and had the provision relating to transfer fees and provided that they could not be charged at all unless the association or managing entity was required in the POS documents to approve any resales. The statement in the declarations, declaring that DVC retains no right to approve any resale, started with the original declarations for OKW, i.e., the DVD lawyers at that time appear to have been aware of the statute and a conscious decision may have been made to put that statement into the declarations to show DVC was not going to charge any such fees.

There is another related Florida statute. §689.28, which states:

“INTENT.—The Legislature finds and declares that the public policy of this state favors the marketability of real property and the transferability of interests in real property free of title defects or unreasonable restraints on alienation. The Legislature further finds and declares that transfer fee covenants violate this public policy by impairing the marketability and transferability of real property and by constituting an unreasonable restraint on alienation regardless of the duration of such covenants or the amount of such transfer fees, and do not run with the title to the property or bind subsequent owners of the property under common law or equitable principles.”

It thus generally declares that transfer fees are presumed improper. However, it allows homeowners’, condominium, mobile home or property owners associations to charge such fees “if the declaration, covenant, or law applicable to the association” allows it, indicating that the charge can be made only if allowed by law or it is expressly set out in the POS documents, which appears to mean that DVC must first adopt an amendment to such documents to allow any such fee, which may require the owners' actual vote.

One change to my prior post. That $100 fee limit stated in §718,112(2)(i) that can be charged for any transfer fees applicable to resales, if any fee can actually be charged, is now $150 as there is an inflationary adjustment to be made every 5 years, and one appears to have been made this year.

Also, there has been mention that perhaps the $500 fee created is to cover the necessary costs DVCM will incur to provide all the things it needs to provide relating to completing a resale. As I noted before, the timeshare statute, even if it applied, requires the managing agency to provide a number of verifications and documents relating to any sale, and DVCM is allowed to charge $150 maximum for doing that. The information and documents DVCM has to provide is basically all the information it needs to collect and provide for any resale, and under the statute it is not entitled to charge more than $150 for all that work. My sense is the $500 charge it has created means that DVCM has built in a profit amount and that its main purpose is to further reduce resales, AND, like so many fees that Disney has created in the past, it is likely that DVCM intends to raise it annually as the years pass. In other words, the future may be that selling will usually be an act that produces a loss.
 










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