New $500 Resale DVC Transfer Fee

[pkrieger2287]

Also a note on Marriott: While they do charge a large amount, that is not just to transfer resale points but also to "wash" them, so it isn't really the same thing.

Tide or OxyClean?

 

[tx911]

Tide or OxyClean?

Holy water?

 

[Fullchaos]

A lot of good points in here. When we met my new guide at BLT in November, he told me changes were going to be rolled out to impact the commercial activity, but wouldn't get specific. While there's a short term negative impact to the resale market, I think Disney isn't worried about $5-10 increase on smaller contracts. For them, that's an argument that you should consider buying direct for the benefits.

I'd also imagine that they believe that if the base price per point continues to rise annually then the underlying resale price will increase correspondingly to a certain degree (mostly for longer length contracts). When you look at it through this lens, the fee gets less noticeable if overall values rise (which they still don't care about - because their argument is buy from us).

Finally, I think the thoughts on small contracts are overblown. Yes, you're adding $10 / pt for a 50 pt contract, but is someone that needs 50 extra point really going to buy a 100 pt contract - possibly spending thousands upon thousands of dollars more, while also committing to hundreds of dollars in additional dues annually - to get a perceived reduction in cost per point? Possible, but feels like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

[AstroBlasters]

Another take

DVC Community: "Curb commercial activity"
DVCM: "We're doing what YOU want. We noticed a lot of activity related to commercial renters is with them buying and selling contracts, this is to discourage and slow them down. Look, Carl here did 20 transactions in the last month, its targeted at THEM. But you don't have to worry about that fee when buying from us."

View attachment 1028573

Yes, this new fee and the one transfer per year rule definitely impacts the Buy/Strip/Flip business model.

I would expect the “Buy It Now” prices to adjust lower or stipulate that the seller pays the transfer fee.

I’m guessing this could lead more people to rent points than to sell in some cases.

 

[Add-On-Itis]

If the reason for the fee is really to hire more agents, that seems ridiculous since most of this kind of stuff will be automated within 5 years or so. (that's what always gets me about these types of fees -- they are for functions that are completely automated now that don't require a human to do anything)

Either this is a sign that Disney's IT is really behind the curve, or they want to churn contracts much faster, or they want to drive resale prices down far enough that they can ROFL most of them, or they are just being greedy. That last one has my vote.

We have two contracts to list but we were waiting until springtime. I'm mad that I'll net less after this fee for no reason other than greed. I'm really close to giving up on disney completely (which is so sad after 25+ years of DVC) but the constant paper cuts are killing me. We can still go if we want, but we won't be married to the mouse any longer.

And where would you go otherwise?

 

[Dis507]

As I quickly read this thread to catch up, can someone point me to the part of agreements that states DVD or DVCM can levy any fee they see fit as it relates to handling title membership management? I've been trying to read quickly and don't see anything that states it.

As a whole the price tag is a shocker, they didn't just do a simple ding to make more money, they went for the whole smash. (The new lodge must be costing more they expected )

Thanks!

 

[Sandisw]

Whelp … there it is! The reason they cancelled the membership meeting. Can’t stomach the pitch fork and torches crowd … we all knew something unpleasant was coming.

They are still holding the meeting. It’s just now by resort instead of one large one.

It actually means they will get the same questions multiple times!

 

[cruisehopeful]

I think it's industry standard to charge for the transfer. Yes, Disney is charging a lot more than expected, but that's literally everything Disney does/sells. We'll have to see how this works out. I, of course, would love to transfer my contracts to my kids if they want them when I'm done with them. I'm wondering if they will charge $500/ contract. That would be $2500.

 

[DoubleBaconBLT]

You know what’s coming next? … I bet it’s a fee to change the name on a reservation. They are trying to punish anyone making money off of their product, without them.

You may have been joking, but the Club Wyndham timeshare already does this. I booked a rental this fall with them and the owner I rented from told me that to change the name on the reservation or add another name would cost an extra $100. The five night booking in a 3BR was only $850 to start with.

 

[pzw90]

The timing is also interesting. If this came up last night, and the new fee kicks in in 30 days. I wouldn't be surprised to see anything sent to ROFR from now on not getting decided until 12/31 so all closings happen 1/1 and after

 

[Sandisw]

If Disney wants to make direct more attractive than resale-why don’t they add more perks?! Good ones, not this laughable bs they try to market. People love perks, when they actually are worth something. And if they ever want to sell Riviera direct, they really should remove that ridiculous restriction. Such greed!

Perks cost money and require an agreement with other divisions or suppliers.

DVD doesn’t always have control of those things. For example, the Sorcerer AP offering is controlled by the ticketing division of parks and resorts.

So, if they decide to eliminate the product or decide they don’t want it offered to DVC, then DVD can’t just offer it on its own.

In terms of RIV, while it may taken longer than some think it should have, it’s in its final stages of selling and many have bought in spite of them.

DVD has obviously been okay with it and restrictions or they would have removed them and definitely not added to CFW and VDH.

But, on the flip side, collecting money for resale closing could give DVD addtonal funds to shift into a marketing budget to potentially give additional perks to the direct buyers!

 

[Sandisw]

Aren’t we paying for it already through the administration fees in our dues?

No…the duties of transferring contracts is part of administration and the developer.

They use DVCMC to handle it for them, like we use DVCMC to handle the management of our program.

It’s all intertwined because it’s all Disney company and same people involved at the top, but its separate in the same sense.

 

[mkatsy]

But, on the flip side, collecting money for resale closing could give DVD addtonal funds to shift into a marketing budget to potentially give additional perks to the direct buyers!

Don’t give them any ideas that’s going to be the “future faking” answer we will hear in the condo meetings.

 

[DoubleBaconBLT]

I don't like the way DVC quietly rolled out this new charge, but I can understand the logic behind them doing so. DVC makes no money off a contract resale, and bears an administrative cost for processing the transaction, so charging a fee seems logical.

I agree that a fee seems reasonable because they're doing work without getting paid. But $500 seems a bit extreme when this used to be $0.

 

[Disdreaming479]

Recently someone posted on the purchasing thread about finding their seller on the comptroller site. The seller had many many contracts but I don’t remember exactly how many. This would ding those sellers badly. $500 x 50 contracts, ouch!!

 

[Sandisw]

Interesting perspective. Is there a (legal) limit to what Disney can demand here? Could they ask for $20,000 per transaction (which would kill the resale market)? Or are there (time share law / common law) limitations? Can they change the fees at will or do they have to announce these rule changes in a way that gives contracting parties to react?

I'm not trying to cause panic with an (obviously) absurd scenario. I'm just trying to understand if there are limits in law or contract.

I would imagine that technically they could try to make it higher but I also don’t believe that DVD/DVCM would do something so outrageous that it could by challenged legally as preventing someone from selling their timeshare.

While they may push limits at times, it has always seemed to me that they felt they could support it on some way.

My guess is that they added it to the website language first and will roll this out officially to title companies second and to owners next week during the meetings if asked.

This certainly is a move that makes the flipping of contracts more expensive.

Again, maybe they will turn the found revenue into the marketing budget and use it to give direct owners bigger benefits!!!

 

[intamin]

Yeah. My mind immediately went to the following:

50-pt contract: $500/50=$10.00/point
100-pt contract: $500/100=$5.00/point
150-pt contract: $500/150=$3.33/point
200-pt contract: $500/200=$2.50/point

I think one could argue that correlates roughly to the premium small point contracts currently get over larger point contracts. Will be interesting to see if this has an effect on the higher price smaller point contracts tend to fetch on the resale market.

So much for buying small to get the foot in the door. Small contracts are already fetching a premium, might as well go big or go home at this point. I meannn this essentially makes those little 25 point add ons go up 20 dollars a point on something that is already usually 20 dollars per point above the average price of 150 point contracts so like a 40 dollar per point premium. I had been tossing around the idea of doing a FW+ a 25 pointer for my direct Poly contract but it seems like if I plan to buy that 25 pointer I better intend on keeping it at this point.

 

[Brian Noble]

There need not be any nefarious explanation. As the system grows and ages, the volume of resale transactions will also grow, and the resources required to process them become a noticeable entry on the balance sheet. Someone decided that it was reasonable to recover those costs directly from those who are incurring them. $500 is not out of line given what other timeshare developers already charge for demonstrably poorer service in transferring ownership.

 

[AstroBlasters]

If the reason for the fee is really to hire more agents, that seems ridiculous since most of this kind of stuff will be automated within 5 years or so. (that's what always gets me about these types of fees -- they are for functions that are completely automated now that don't require a human to do anything)

Either this is a sign that Disney's IT is really behind the curve, or they want to churn contracts much faster, or they want to drive resale prices down far enough that they can ROFL most of them, or they are just being greedy. That last one has my vote.

We have two contracts to list but we were waiting until springtime. I'm mad that I'll net less after this fee for no reason other than greed. I'm really close to giving up on disney completely (which is so sad after 25+ years of DVC) but the constant paper cuts are killing me. We can still go if we want, but we won't be married to the mouse any longer.

You use the word “greed” like it is a moral failing.

Disney is a publicly owned company and not a family owned business. One of the core jobs of a management team is to maximize the return to the companies owners.

This is just capitalism. Grow your bottom line and earn your bonus or you will get fired and replaced be someone else who will.

 

[Sandisw]

You use the word “greed” like it is a moral failing.

Disney is a publicly owned company and not a family owned business. One of the core jobs of a management team is to maximize the return to the companies owners.

This is just capitalism. Grow your bottom line and earn your bonus or you will get fired and replaced be someone else who will.

And, to add, title agencies charge fees for the process too. Fidelity charges an admin fee to transactions.

They already charge direct buyers an extra fee if $250 to split contracts into smaller ones so I can understand why they have chosen to do it.

Sure, it’s a hit and it changes the math for the transaction, but to be honest, surprised it’s taken this long for them to do it.