Neurologist's recommendations for getting DD to sleep...

[Rajah]

No further advice for you, other than perhaps trying to talk her through what scares her so much? No experience with it, so that's a wild guess.

Good luck.

 

[DawnCt1]

I would look for a neuro psychiatrist, IF you feel you need to change doctors. ADHD is a neurological disorder, not a psychiatric one. The bi polar disorder is only suspected, not diagnosed. I do not think the neurologist was out of line to tell your DD that "big girls sleep by themselves". Most do. It doesn't hurt children to be embarrassed now and then. Without some stress, she would have no motivation to change her behavior. I think that the doctor was trying to demonstrate to your DD that she could sleep safely in her own bed and after 30 days, she would adjust to that. It actually makes more sense that having the child in your bed, allowing her to sleep on the couch, etc. Sleep habits are hard to break. How about a extra bed in the room, an aerobed, etc. What you have been doing isn't actually working or you wouldn't have consulted a neurologist or health professional to begin with. You really have nothing to lose, except a good night's sleep by doing this. If it works, you have everything to gain. For it to work, you need to present a united front to your DD, be optomistic and embrace the new plan, not let your DD know that its an inconvenience and has no chance of working. Just another opinion.

 

[DawnCt1]

I also don't think that we need to understand what fears a child has in order to resolve the problem. Many problems can be solved through behavior modification without ever knowing how it started in the first place.

 

[Laurajean1014]

I agree with Snoopy. Opt for the 'family bed' option, so all of you get to sleep.

What about sleep overs at relatives, vacations and friends homes? Does this affect those circumstances, too? How do you handle that?

I also agree with the posters, that the Dr. is not working with you, but rather against you. 40 and sleeping on the floor will only have you seeing a chiropractor.

 

[Barb D]

I'll tell you what worked with my DD5 who ended up in bed with us every night. I realize your situation is different, but this might help in conjunction with what another doctor might say:

I put a nightlight in her room, and put it on a programmable timer. I had it timed so that the nightlight went on at bedtime and off at 5AM (about the time DH is getting up and I'm starting to wake up.) I told her that when the nightlight was ON, she needed to stay in her own bed, but if the night light was OFF, she could come in my bed with me and snuggle.

This did the trick with her. She knew that she COULD come in with me and snuggle sometimes, just not all night every night. If the power went out the night light went out, so then she was free to come in at any time.

 

[DawnCt1]

I put a nightlight in her room, and put it on a programmable timer. I had it timed so that the nightlight went on at bedtime and off at 5AM (about the time DH is getting up and I'm starting to wake up.) I told her that when the nightlight was ON, she needed to stay in her own bed, but if the night light was OFF, she could come in my bed with me and snuggle.

This did the trick with her. She knew that she COULD come in with me and snuggle sometimes, just not all night every night. If the power went out the night light went out, so then she was free to come in at any time.

That really is an excellent suggestion.

 

[LMC]

Sounds like anxieties to me too. I have 3 kids and I'll sum them up like this: 1st DS: a nightmare, sounds just like your DD (he is diagnosed w/ anxiety) but we "cured" him at age 5; I'll tell you how in a minute. 2nd child, DD was a dream, if I could have a hundred like her I would. 3rd child DS another nightmare but his is due to stubborness. Notice I make a difference between the two DS's situations! Not all refusals to sleep in their own beds are just out of stubborness or defiance.

1st DS was 5 when we started bribing him $1 per nite to go to sleep ALONE in his own bed. I was about to have 3rd child, had DD with burns and needed some rest so it was the BEST money I have ever spent!! If he woke up during the nite he could get into bed with us but to get the $1, he had to fall asleep on his own in his own bed. After a couple of weeks, he was sleeping thru the nite and by the end of 30 days, I stopped paying him as a new habit of falling to sleep in his bed was established. He could still climb in the bed with us during the nite. Now (age 10) he is not allowed. Sometimes he still complains about going to bed or "doesn't feel good" but we don't break down. The only time I make an exception is if he is vomiting. Then he can sleep in the floor in our room so I can help him during the nite if he needs it. I also have christmas lights hanging in his room for "nite lights". He loves it and when they go out, I have to hang a new strand. (I stock up every year!).
So for your dd, you may want to bribe her with something but it needs to be an immediate reward the next morning. And, make sure you check in on her frequently (every 2-3 minutes or so) at first then lengthen the intervals as she becomes comfortable sleeping in her own room. I did this with 2nd DS and he adjusted quite well too. (He did not get bribes as his issues were not the same as 1st ds).

Oh, I would find a psychiatrist if you suspect anxieties. Just be aware that alot will want to medicate it immediately rather than have "therapy" sessions so you need to decide what is best for your family. And my sister uses melatonin on her dd and it works quite well. Just give it early in the evening so she is not sleepy the next day.

 

[figment52]

Have you tried any of those white noise machines with a soothing environmental sound - gentle rain, waves washing gently on the shore. They may dround out the scary noises that normally wake her up when she is sleeping.

 

[DawnCt1]

Sounds like anxieties to me too. I have 3 kids and I'll sum them up like this: 1st DS: a nightmare, sounds just like your DD (he is diagnosed w/ anxiety) but we "cured" him at age 5; .

You have clearly demonstrated that a child doesn't need to understand his anxieties to be able to recover. Behavior modification works. You did a great job and it was probably less money than your "co pay".

 

[Tuffcookie]

A few more details, the neurologist did tell me to try giving her melatonin at night.


Melatonin has worked wonders for my youngest DS. I like that it is natural and non-habit forming.

TC

 

[MELISAZACK]

Your DD sounds like my Ds who is 7...sleeps with us has since right after his 1st bday - has night terror too...doesn't sleep walk though - Scared to death of the dark -we have offered night lights tv whatever nothing and even though he is afraid of the dark he doesn't want to sleep with the lights on...
weird I know....He is border line ADHD as well - and I feel for you with the tight arm grip my DS does the same exact thing it is like prying yourself from a vise....I had a Dr. tell my son the same statement about not sleeping with mommy - He just smirked at her and said "oh well I am" It is the only way he gets good sleep. We took a friend of his to the beach this summer with us and were surprised that he did share a bed with him in the hotel instead of comming with us - but was up and down with me all night that goodnes the other child was a deep sleeper.....Our ped. said although family sleeping isn't the best it isn't the worse thing either - folks do it regardless of need and said no worries he will grow out of it.....I HOPE SO!!! but for DS piece of mind and my own sleep this works for now...Do what you ahve to to make it work!

 

[Christine]

I just wanted to chime in that my DS (who is almost 11) has had "dark" problems since he was about 6. He has trouble going to sleep every night. He usually sleeps with a night light and his light on dim. We have tried everything from music to special toys, bribes, etc. The only difference is that my son WILL stay in his room. He has never been allowed to sleep with us. He knows this but that doesn't really help him. There are nights where his fears really bother him and he hardly gets any sleep. Then other times is he does okay.

His favorite times are when we are on vacation or when he visits his grandparents because he doesn't have to sleep alone then.

I swear, he would have done well in one of the families where there were lots of kids and they all shared rooms. He would have loved that. He has told me that when he was younger, about 4 or 5, that he used to have terrible dreams. I never knew this at the time--but he has told me that. He still thinks about those dreams and, even at 11, he worries about monsters in his closet.

 

[MELISAZACK]

My DS does complain of Dreams and Bad ones at that - afraid someone is going to take him or get him!....no horror movies either...and I agree with Christine--If we were a big family where kids share rooms I think he would be good to go too...but only child so he is out of luck there - I must say I can lay with him in his room for about 10 min he will get to sleep and I can leave but after about 1-2 hours all hell breaks loose and off he goes - Now this weekend we just moved into a new home so we told him that after we settle in more we are going to try the own room thing again....we will see.

 

[minmate]

Only b/c of my personal experience, I'm going to echo a previous poster who suggested sensory integration/perception disorder or some other type of autism spectrum disorder. They "can" run in families sometimes.

Is it completely out of the question to have dd get ready for bed a little early and then tell her you'll sit with her for a set time limit? Say 20 minutes (gradually you can work this down?) -- She may benefit from some firm pressure back rubbing or such (which sometimes work for kids with sensory perception disorder).

Maybe you could also talk to her at a calm point during the day and say you'd like to make up your OWN sleep plan. Ask her how she sees going to sleep working best for her. What is her goal? Would she like to sleep on the couch, in her own room, etc? Is there something that can substitute for your arm -- a stuffed animal, a squishy pillow, etc. Can you agree to check on her every 15 minutes and give her a few minutes of light back rub or massage, to help her drift off to sleep?

Ultimately, I believe this is linked to her neurological issues and any attempts at bribery or scolding or "toughing it out", or assuming she's just being stubborn and will get over it, will only produce more anxiety for her. I will be thinking about you and hoping for some good solutions to come your way!

 

[dcentity2000]

If bipolar disorder is suspected, do see a psychiatrist sooner rather than later. Associated psychiatric disorders tend to worsen if left untreated.



Rich::

 

[Christine]

Ultimately, I believe this is linked to her neurological issues and any attempts at bribery or scolding or "toughing it out", or assuming she's just being stubborn and will get over it, will only produce more anxiety for her. I will be thinking about you and hoping for some good solutions to come your way!

I would like to agree with Minmate here. This doesn't sound like your "garden variety" sleep issue/power struggle thing that so many people go through. And I think you know that having raised 3 other children. When you have 3 other kids that all sleep well, and one that doesn't--well, it's kind of easy to see that this isn't a parenting issue, but more going on.

It's the same with my son. I have a daughter that sleeps beautifully and always has. Never had to come to my room once, never been afraid. I didn't do anything different with my son, but he is quite another matter!

 

[kasar]

While certainly not as complicated as the OP's situation, our youngest DD didn't stay in her own bed until she was around 7 years old. No bad dreams or anything, she just liked being with someone during the night. We tried everything but it was a constant battle. She eventually did it on her own, nothing triggered it, I guess it was just time maturity wise.

It stinks not sleeping through the night because of your children, I really feel for you. I can remember having a bad dream as a child and not wanting to disturb my parents so I would sleep on the floor in their room. I didn't want that for my child so even though it wasn't the best situation for us I wouldn't change the way we handled it and I have never felt guilt or embarrassment - we did what was right for our family and you should too.

 

[disykat]

I'm with Dawn on this one. I'd give sleeping in her room with her off and on while she gets comfortable with falling asleep in there a try. It sounds quite logical to me. Just because he said "floor" doesn't mean you can't set up an airbed (they cost as little as $15 for a twin).

I'd try to help her establish the habit of sleeping in her bed. Once she's sleeping in her own bed and you're no longer in there, let her come to your bed if she wakes, cuddle a bit, and then walk her back to her room and tuck her back in.

 

[simpilotswife]

I would look for a neuro psychiatrist, IF you feel you need to change doctors. ADHD is a neurological disorder, not a psychiatric one. The bi polar disorder is only suspected, not diagnosed. I do not think the neurologist was out of line to tell your DD that "big girls sleep by themselves". Most do. It doesn't hurt children to be embarrassed now and then. Without some stress, she would have no motivation to change her behavior. I think that the doctor was trying to demonstrate to your DD that she could sleep safely in her own bed and after 30 days, she would adjust to that. It actually makes more sense that having the child in your bed, allowing her to sleep on the couch, etc. Sleep habits are hard to break. How about a extra bed in the room, an aerobed, etc. What you have been doing isn't actually working or you wouldn't have consulted a neurologist or health professional to begin with. You really have nothing to lose, except a good night's sleep by doing this. If it works, you have everything to gain. For it to work, you need to present a united front to your DD, be optomistic and embrace the new plan, not let your DD know that its an inconvenience and has no chance of working. Just another opinion.

A neurologist may be qualified to treat ADHD if it is a form that is easily treatable with routine medications. Many times ADHD has some form of co-morbidity attached to it (OCD, ODD, Tourettes, etc.). Psychiatrists are much more experienced in the area of medications that are available and how they can best be prescribed and combined. They are also much more apt to react and make changes to a med that is not working or is causing a problem.

As for your comments about humiliation and stress being an acceptable treatment for what appears to be a case of night terrors.....Wow!! What the heck let's inflict more emotional damage on this child why don't we?

If the child is not able to help herself due to some sort of impairment then humiliating her and adding stress to her situation is child abuse, plain and simple.

 

[snoopy]

As for your comments about humiliation and stress being an acceptable treatment for what appears to be a case of night terrors.....Wow!! What the heck let's inflict more emotional damage on this child why don't we?

If the child is not able to help herself due to some sort of impairment then humiliating her and adding stress to her situation is child abuse, plain and simple.

I agree. Humiliating the child might indeed get her to sleep on her own, but at what cost to the child?