Need thoughts on 7 year old 2nd grader behavior problem(long~sorry)

[connorlevismom]

I absolutely agree that if the parents are not doing anything or flat out REFUSE to do anything, then that is a different story. There is no excuse for that and I am sorry but not doing something so a kid does not get a label is for the parents, not the kid.

I got help right away for my son and I am SO GLAD that I did. He is in 2nd grade and I know that I am helping him the best that I can. I work with the teachers and make sure they know on orientation night that they are free to tell me anything and not to worry about my feelings. That I want to know if anything is going on and I won't be offended if they say something negative or notice something that I might not. I WANT to help him and I can't unless I know what is going on. We work as a team. But I think that a lot of teachers are afraid to approach parents because so many get mad at THEM like it is their fault. That is unfortunate. That is not doing anything to help your kid.

My sister was told when her son was in 2nd grade that he needed to be evaluated for ADHD and she refused and refused and refused because she did not want to "label" him. Well, in 9th grade she had enough and finally got the evaluation done. Guess what? ADHD! Now he is on meds and doing really well. Now she beats herself up for not doing it way back when he was in 2nd grade. She cries about the life she has made him live and how it could have been so much better had she checked her ego and gotten him help in 2nd grade.

I just can't help but feel sorry for these kids because most of the time, I really don't think they are brats. I think there is something going on with them that I am sure they don't like either. I really don't think that most kids want to be a "bad" kid. I think that their behavior is a manifestation of something else. But sometimes there is nobody there helping them and making sure they lead a better life.

We just have to remember that at the end of the day, these are just kids. We can get angry at the parents for not doing anything, but make sure you know they are not before you accuse them of it. What I was trying to say in my earlier post is that don't be so quick to assume that a kid is a brat or the parents don't do anything unless you know first hand what is going on.

I totally get wanting your kid to be in a class where they can learn.

 

[mjkacmom]

We never found a medicine that worked for my son and didn;t have side effects. He has figured out ways around the ADD(like yours, the inattentive type). I love his personality and quirks, so I don't think I would take the ADD away, even if I could.

.

I spoke with his teachers every year about medicating him, but since he got all A's, and they made modifications for him (sitting him in a corner, letting him use a squeezy ball, etc.), the teachers always assured me they weren't needed. Until 6th grade, when his teacher felt that he was too old for modifications (didn't want him embarrassed). I was hesitant, because I'm a certified to teach special education, and know how hard it is to find the right medication and dosage. Well, on his second dosage change, it was like a miracle! His only side effect was lack of appetite, but it was balanced by puberty.

He's no quirky at all - plays a lot of sports, is musically talented, performs in plays - typical blond all American boy. Always hangs with a big crowd, and just blends. I love quirky kids - I have one - and I totally understand not wanting medication changing a personality.

 

[ccgirl]

Sorry, haven't read all of the responses.

I have to say, I was a bit surprised by the OP. She wanted to know why the teachers couldn't "show the love" to her son for like 2 minutes. The "issue" is, your son is not the only one in the class. They would have to show the love to all students for 2 minutes and the class would be over and he would learn nothing.

Sorry, but working full time and having another child is an excuse. I work full time and have a small child as well. There are plenty of moms that work full time and have more than two children and still demand good behavior.

I think in addition to the testing, you want to look at your parenting techniques since you really don't see the issue with rewarding poor behavior. We went through it for a bit with my DD. I went to a Behavioral Therapist. They explained good attention and bad attention. We went to rewarding good attention.

I can tell you, if my DD got those comments I would have requested a meeting and not just sent emails to teachers. My child would be punished for an entire term until they could prove otherwise to me.

There is no excuse for poor behavior. The teachers email said that from the moment he stepped in the class he demanded attention. Is that what you do at home? If so; it's time to stop because it is negatively affecting him as well as every other student in each of his classes.

I would suggested a Behavioral Therapist to work on his behavior and give better techniques.

Good luck.

 

[tuckerkeys]

OP, I did not read all responses but can see by the length of the pages that it's probably pretty heated in here.........

My son is 9 and in 3rd grade. This could have been him! We did get evaluated and it turned out to be 2 things. 1 was IMMATURITY ( which is much better but does take time & peer pressure ) and 2 was he is BORED in school. Yeah, try telling THIS to his teachers! His grades are all fine.

I started out 2nd and 3rd grade letting his teachers know his "issue". They give him extra & busy work to keep his mind working & off the stupid stuff. So far it has worked. I was told he could probably skip a grade but b/c of his immaturity and all that stupid stuff that he does he would be a social outcast probably...So we just wait for his immature mind to catch up....It doesn't help that the kids DO laugh at his antics, but I have heard from his teacher that slowly as the year goes on the kids ( girls esp. ) are giving him the side eye & telling him it's not cool.......

You'll need to decide whats best for your son. It's always hard to have someone else tell you whats wrong with your child - but nowadays there are SO many different ways to work the kinks out - therapy wise etc etc..... Good luck!

 

[proud_canadian]

Hi there,

I've read a lot of the responses, but not all of them, but this thread did strike a cord with me.

I have a DD7 who is also in 2nd grade, and here in Canada we have 2 years of kindergarten so this is her 4th year of school.

Now, if my child were acting out, I would want to know. I know a lot of teachers and daycare providers are afraid to bring up issues with parents, and that is actually a very sad thing in my opinion. In your case though it sounds like you knew there were issues earlier in the year. In my case, over the years when minor normal developmental issues have come up with my children such as not sharing well (age 3), or pushing to get first in line (age 4), I am soooo glad when teachers have brought it up to me. It opens the door for me to have many, many conversations with my children and know where they are struggling with doing the right thing behavior wise. We discuss what alternatives are and what they should be doing etc. They then know that I will be following up with the teacher if there are issues on that day, there will be consequences. I am then proactive about it and make a point to talk to the teacher each day (this was back when they went to daycare and we picked them up each day).

If an issue were to come up now, I would be very proactive about it, and while I can't expect the teacher to call me every day or email me, I would set up a way for them to let me know if my DC had a good day, and we would continue to talk about it at home daily until I was positive the issue was gone. Even without knowing of any concerns at this point, I make it a point to talk to my kids constantly about what I expect from them. Not excluding others, listening to the teachers, doing their work, trying their best, being quiet during appropriate times, etc. That's just part of being a parent. I daily talk to my children about their days, what happened that was good, what happened that was bad etc. I'm sorry to say though, that when my children talk about their days, there are often the same names that come up over and over again. Jimmy was running away when it was circle time, Susy was hitting people for no reason, Billy was laughing loudly when we were supposed to be learning our math lesson. It does affect the other children, even at grade 2 and JK (first year of kindergarten), and they do notice.

Now, DD7 did have a child in her class the last two years but not this year, and this child I'm farily sure had some emotional or physchological issues because he seems to be almost two compeltely different kids. He also went to daycare with DD after school. And sometimes I would pick up my DD and this boy would be sitting down playing a game nicely, or working on a craft together and you'd think they were best buds. Yet the very next day I would pick her up and he would be running around the classroom like a banshee, SCREAMING that he hated the teacher and was pulling toys from the shelves and making a huge mess. That type of behavior would be COMPLTELY and utterly unacceptable for my children and if I EVER heard of anything remotely like that there would be incredible punishments, discussions, and reminders for years. However, when I met the mother of this boy, I started to wonder if maybe it was acceptable to him at home, and maybe that's why he was like he was.

One day I was picking up DD and this boys mother was picking him up at the same time from daycare. When you pick up your child, the center's policy is for the child to put away what they were playing with, unless other children are still playing with it. Anyways, DD and this boy were playing some castle set together with lots of pieces, and me and this other mother walked in together. They both came over to hug us, and right away I told DD to go clean up and get her stuff. The other mother tells her son, "go get your bag and coat". The daycare teacher says, "X can you go help clean up first". At first the mother ignores the staff, and the boy goes to get his stuff. The staff asks again. The other mother finally says very snarkily, "he is MY son, and I TOLD him to go get his stuff and then we are leaving. If I don't say he has to clean up, then he doesn't have to clean up." ??????????????????? what the heck. It would have taken him 30 seconds, and is a rule and part of personal responsibility and just the right thing to do. So, my DD cleaned up the whole set, and we left, but she is all confused by this behavior, and really made me look at this mother and the whole situation differently.

Anyways, OP, it looks like you have a handful, and I really hope you can get to the bottom of it. Good luck to you, and I hope you get your diagnoses soon.

However, one thing I don't understand, if he does have a learning disability, and can't read properly, that shouldn't affect his art class? That class generally doesn't involve a lot of reading and from what I've heard (many friends as teachers), kids who struggle in core subjects due to learning disabilitys generally excel in arts and things like that as they are often very creative and love an outlet where they can get that out. I could only imagine how he behaves in the main core classes if he is struggling to behave himself in art.

Good luck to you!

 

[badblackpug]

I absolutely agree that if the parents are not doing anything or flat out REFUSE to do anything, then that is a different story. There is no excuse for that and I am sorry but not doing something so a kid does not get a label is for the parents, not the kid.

I got help right away for my son and I am SO GLAD that I did. He is in 2nd grade and I know that I am helping him the best that I can. I work with the teachers and make sure they know on orientation night that they are free to tell me anything and not to worry about my feelings. That I want to know if anything is going on and I won't be offended if they say something negative or notice something that I might not. I WANT to help him and I can't unless I know what is going on. We work as a team. But I think that a lot of teachers are afraid to approach parents because so many get mad at THEM like it is their fault. That is unfortunate. That is not doing anything to help your kid.

My sister was told when her son was in 2nd grade that he needed to be evaluated for ADHD and she refused and refused and refused because she did not want to "label" him. Well, in 9th grade she had enough and finally got the evaluation done. Guess what? ADHD! Now he is on meds and doing really well. Now she beats herself up for not doing it way back when he was in 2nd grade. She cries about the life she has made him live and how it could have been so much better had she checked her ego and gotten him help in 2nd grade.

I just can't help but feel sorry for these kids because most of the time, I really don't think they are brats. I think there is something going on with them that I am sure they don't like either. I really don't think that most kids want to be a "bad" kid. I think that their behavior is a manifestation of something else. But sometimes there is nobody there helping them and making sure they lead a better life.

We just have to remember that at the end of the day, these are just kids. We can get angry at the parents for not doing anything, but make sure you know they are not before you accuse them of it. What I was trying to say in my earlier post is that don't be so quick to assume that a kid is a brat or the parents don't do anything unless you know first hand what is going on.

I totally get wanting your kid to be in a class where they can learn.

I think, to a point, I disagree. I think some kids are just that. Brats. Meaning I don't believe that some of these children who are behaving badly are doing it because they have some sort of "diagnosis." I think in some cases bad behavior is just bad behavior.

Now, if the bad behavior is coming from a young child I don't, necessarily, blame the child for the fact that he/she is not behaving. I think somewhere along the line someone dropped the ball. Maybe the child didn't have anyone to model proper behavior. Maybe the child lacks rules and boundaries. My point is that I don't think it is always some sort of "disorder" that is causing it.

... and, yes, poor teachers are so under fire lately. It is a very fine line they have to walk. If they bring up negative behavior they are being mean, or they don't like the child, or they are labeling him. If they don't jump through hoops to accommodate every child and parents wants they are bad, or lazy, or they don't care. If they don't bring up the behavior or issues then they didn't keep the parent informed, or they aren't helping the child, or they are lazy, or bad, or don't care. It's a catch 22. ...and you just have to read the OP to see this.

 

[connorlevismom]

I think, to a point, I disagree. I think some kids are just that. Brats. Meaning I don't believe that some of these children who are behaving badly are doing it because they have some sort of "diagnosis." I think in some cases bad behavior is just bad behavior.

Now, if the bad behavior is coming from a young child I don't, necessarily, blame the child for the fact that he/she is not behaving. I think somewhere along the line someone dropped the ball. Maybe the child didn't have anyone to model proper behavior. Maybe the child lacks rules and boundaries. My point is that I don't think it is always some sort of "disorder" that is causing it.

... and, yes, poor teachers are so under fire lately. It is a very fine line they have to walk. If they bring up negative behavior they are being mean, or they don't like the child, or they are labeling him. If they don't jump through hoops to accommodate every child and parents wants they are bad, or lazy, or they don't care. If they don't bring up the behavior or issues then they didn't keep the parent informed, or they aren't helping the child, or they are lazy, or bad, or don't care. It's a catch 22. ...and you just have to read the OP to see this.

I am not saying they have to have a diagnosis. If you don't know the family and their private life, you really don't know what is going on in that house. The parents might be going through a divorce, they might be getting abused, grandma might have just died.....you just really don't know. Kids act out when things are "wrong" in their life. I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree because I believe that most kids aspire to be good kids and don't take enjoyment from being the bad kids. When I say kids I mean little kids, not teenagers.

 

[ccgirl]

I think, to a point, I disagree. I think some kids are just that. Brats. Meaning I don't believe that some of these children who are behaving badly are doing it because they have some sort of "diagnosis." I think in some cases bad behavior is just bad behavior.

Now, if the bad behavior is coming from a young child I don't, necessarily, blame the child for the fact that he/she is not behaving. I think somewhere along the line someone dropped the ball. Maybe the child didn't have anyone to model proper behavior. Maybe the child lacks rules and boundaries. My point is that I don't think it is always some sort of "disorder" that is causing it.

... and, yes, poor teachers are so under fire lately. It is a very fine line they have to walk. If they bring up negative behavior they are being mean, or they don't like the child, or they are labeling him. If they don't jump through hoops to accommodate every child and parents wants they are bad, or lazy, or they don't care. If they don't bring up the behavior or issues then they didn't keep the parent informed, or they aren't helping the child, or they are lazy, or bad, or don't care. It's a catch 22. ...and you just have to read the OP to see this.

Couldn't agree more. I know a close family member of mine whose child is very badly behaved. Instead of dealing with it; she says he has ADHD. No, he has never been diagnosed. For her, it was just easier to tell people he had ADHD than make him behave. Of course, I am not saying everyone is doing that. I just seem to hear more and more from parents whose children misbehave that "so and so has ADHD" like it's a license to misbehave.

 

[Disney Doll]

If I have to leave work because you acted like a fool in school, or use my vacation time to sit through conferences on behavior you darn well can control, I am going to come down on you like a cheetah on a three legged antelope. Just pick out your casket if they call your father.

First of all, I had no idea my mother knew how to post on the DIS.
This is quite possibly one of the best things I've ever read here. I hope the Tag Fairy takes note!!

As far as the OP's issues:
I think the teachers actually sounded great in terms of the amount of detail they gave the OP and how they try and handle things. I think the OP should feel lucky that her son has teachers who are so concerned about him and pretty focused on him, his behavior and what he needs.

I think getting him checked out and diagnosed (if there is one to be made) is a good idea. That will give the child the ability to get the help he needs, the proper IEPs, 540s or whatever other school accomodation forms are available.

I think that to expect the teacher to focus the 1st few minutes of class on 1 child is an unreasonable expectation in a "normal" classroom. All the children deserve attention.

I'm thinking that the child's response of "What? It was funny" about going under the table probably means that he is getting what he wants....attention. The problem with that is that eventually the kids are going to stop thinking it's funny and start getting annoyed, if they aren't already. And I have to agree with badblackpug that when one child's behavior is beginning to impact the learning experience that ALL the children in the class deserve, it is a problem that must be addressed.

Went to grammar school with a kid who acted up...a lot. Now, he'd have some sort of diagnosis, I am quite sure. But this was the 70s, when there was no such thing as a diagnosis. This kid would eat garbage, yell out, stand up in the middle of the class and stretch and yawn loudly...the list literally went on and on....

I can recall at first being a bit awestruck at how someone had the nerve to behave like that because I sure didn't and my parents would have been like badblackpug and her DH if they EVER got a report from school that I did that kind of stuff.

Then we all went through the "I wonder what Wayne is going to do today?" phase, and everything was funny.

Then he got annoying. It was annoying to all the kids that when we were doing something fun in class that the "flow" of the lesson had to be stopped to "deal with" Wayne.

So Wayne ended up with no friends because he was supremely annoying. Kids are cruel, no doubt about it. And some of the parents made the same point that badblackpug made...MY kid's education is being disrupted by THIS kid and what is going to be done about it??????

So, OP, figure your kid out and get him help, because eventually he'll be the outcast if he becomes annoying enough to everyone.