Need suggestions for IEP meeting re dysgraphia (Updated p2, we're back!)

[LadyTrampScamp&Angel]

Nothing like waiting till the last minute to ask this but DS's IEP meeting is tomorrow afternoon.

DS is very bright but has severe dysgraphia (per psych eval). I have some ideas from his psychologist and my reading but if any of you have had this problem too - I'd love to hear ideas. I need to come up with what we want to ask for during meeting.

We are going to request that DS be able to use a word processor and possibly a small recorder (to dictate and transcribe later, record assignments). Ds is already seeing an OT that we and our ins are paying for. Thought, and rightly so, it would take forever to get that service through the school.

DS also has mild ADHD, at this point is not on medication. I did a search a saw a post about headphones to block out noise when he's doing quiet work - thought that was good.

So - any ideas. Thanks so much in advance!

 

[challada]

I don't know how old your son is, so apply this as best it may fit.

Really, what I tell all parents in evals that I do is to begin looking at functionality rather than disability. In other words, what tools and real life skills will your son need to be functional as an adult in the "real world".

Kids with severe writing difficulties will most often use word processor tools in their future to compose and write anything of length or importance. That said, can your son receive a portable word processing tool to assist him in his day to day functioning in the classroom (there are keyboards that you type into and then download the info into the computer at the end of the day).

Sometimes filters help kids with disabilities, so yes, either sound filters (ie headphones) or visual filters (ie colored paper) can help make the important written work stand out for the student. This is a trial and error type thing.

If it is specifically the writing only (and not reading too), I WOULD insist on an OT consult through the schools. Districts have OTs on their staff somewhere and use them in different ways, but at least a consult can get the district OT and the teacher working together.

Hope it all goes well!
C

 

[pirateofthecarolinas]

My DS11 has extended time on tests and a scribe for writing tests (ex. NC writing test that is given at the end of the year).

 

[LadyTrampScamp&Angel]

Thanks for the replies.

Some more background: DS is 9 and in the 3rd grade, we also live in NC. He has a very high IQ and is in a program for gifted kids. In fact, it is fortunate that we are getting an IEP meeting, thanks to help from the school psychologist and his teacher. He can perform at grade level in writing as compared to national test scores. However the "IQ" score he got on writing eval done by our private psychologist is 37 points lower than his overall IQ, which our psychologist termed a "severe" learning disability. His dysgraphia has caused behavior problems due to frustration in the past, before he entered the gifted program. He has a great teacher this year and has made progress but it still affects him in several ways. He refused to write at all on an end of quarter test earlier this year when it was administered by a substitute teacher, he writes as briefly as possible, tries to do math in his head instead of writing down the steps, and gets B's (now, after work) on timed math tests - he says it's not the answer but the writing it that slows him down. I know a "B" is ok but the point is he knows the answers he just can't write them down quickly. I know this also doesn't sound so bad but he also needs constant supervision to keep on task, he tries to avoid writing if possible. DS is bright enough to do lots of compensating to cover his disability but we would like him to grow and be able to function without so much frustration and closer to his overall potential. He doesn't have reading problems.

Whew! Anyway . . .

challada - even with private OT therapy you think we should ask the school for it too? We plan to use our entire years benefit with our OT so that will give him six months of weekly therapy. Come to think of it that will be done with early in the next school year so you're right - it would probably benefit him to continue at school.

We are going to ask if he can use a word processor (like alphasmart). Heck, if the school says they can't provide one I'll buy it. I just want them to let him use it - is that a pretty standard solution for dysgraphia? Do other kids have problems with one child being able to use a word processor? He needs it but I hate to make him seem too different from his classmates. I have no idea how understanding other children at that age are.

pirateofthecarolinas - I am so dreading that big writing test in fourth grade. I'm a little concerned about the end of grade test this year but I think it will only make him write a paragraph - and hopefully he can get through that. I will definitely ask for extra time. When you say "scribe" do you mean your DS gets to dictate to someone? Sorry, that's new to me. Dictating has worked for us at home when he's had long written assignments. If he could do that at school it would be wonderful.

Thanks for the good wishes and your help

 

[pirateofthecarolinas]

Thanks for the replies.
pirateofthecarolinas - I am so dreading that big writing test in fourth grade. I'm a little concerned about the end of grade test this year but I think it will only make him write a paragraph - and hopefully he can get through that. I will definitely ask for extra time. When you say "scribe" do you mean your DS gets to dictate to someone? Sorry, that's new to me. Dictating has worked for us at home when he's had long written assignments. If he could do that at school it would be wonderful.

Thanks for the good wishes and your help

My son has a 31 point discrepancy and is also considered severe dysgraphia. It is also because of a high IQ. My son had a scribe for the 4th grade writing test last year. He dictates his story to a teacher and she writes it down. He scored a 2 last year and failed the test. I was thrilled he got a 2. Nothing happened to him since he has an IEP and a supportive family. His principal said not to worry about it. He is doing his personal best.

He is on the honor roll this year and is doing well. He also has severe dyslexia. We're taking it one year at a time! I'm tutoring him for his EOGs now. He didn't take them in 3rd because he was at a private LD school. He broke out in hives the other day for the first time ever and I'm convinced it's the pressure of the EOGs. It's all his teachers talk about. I also have a DD in 3rd. Boy are we going to celebrate on May 19th!!!!!!!!!

Good luck!

Lori

 

[LadyTrampScamp&Angel]

Pirate -

our DS's sound so similar and it's funny you mention celebrating when the EOG's are over - I am so counting down the weeks!

I have a test prep book we're starting on, I'm really only worried about the writing and hoping he doesn't get "stuck" on that. Something our psychologist said about DS was that with bright kids, most things come so easily to them that they don't deal with frustration well. I certainly see that in DS. He will try to give up if we would all let him. I will ask about dictating, I think that would make a world of difference.

Thanks so much and good luck to you too. There'll be a whole lot of celebrating late May!

 

[pirateofthecarolinas]

double post
Lori

 

[challada]

I am glad to hear that you have taken the time to learn about your son's disability! As a school psyc, I wish I had MORE parents interested in accommodations like you are!

An Alphasmart is a reasonable accommodation that could be put into his IEP. They are pretty expensive so I would recommend that you have the district provide it for at school stuff. I don't know a district out there that doesn't have some floating around.

The key to one of those, though, is that you need to have a kid who can type...the hunt and peck method will NOT work with it and will only frustrate him more. At third grade, he may be a little young yet to use one.

I would do the school OT as well as the private...you will find that the services are widely varied.


If you are looking at a scribe next year for his state testing (every state does it as part of NCLB), you MUST have a scribe start working with him NOW. Accommodations that are done for the state tests must be accommodations that the student receives regularly...so you can't ask him to dictate to a scribe once on the test and never do it in class.

Most of the state tests are untimed, so the extra time accommodation is usually pretty useless...but you can ask about it.


So based on what you are saying the school pysc said, your son performs lower than expected in writing. In our state, that would be a learning disability-writing specific. Severe dysgraphy, however, are students who literally CANNOT perform the operations of writing. It almost sounds to me like your son has difficulties with the organization of ideas rather than the mechanics. If that is the case, he needs instruction in specific writing skills of organization as well as the ability to predraft most anything he does.

Again, good luck and I hope all goes well!
Chris

 

[daisyduck123]

Do other kids have problems with one child being able to use a word processor? He needs it but I hate to make him seem too different from his classmates. I have no idea how understanding other children at that age are.

I teach a 1st grade class with 26 students.

Months ago, at an IEP meeting, it was decided that one of my students use an ALPHSMART for most of his writing tasks.

Our special ed. teacher had a FABULOUS idea.
She came into my classroom, distributed one to each child & showed the entire class how to use them.
She left 5 ALPHASMARTS in my room.

My spec. ed. student uses one everyday.

Each day, I let 4 other students use one to do their writing assignments for the day.

They love using them!!

I just rotate thru my class list & by the end of the week, everyone has had a turn to use one.
When they are finished with their work...we print it out.


I'm going to ask to have 5 Alphasmarts in my room next year if they are not needed in another classroom. (Our school has about 60 of them).

 

[Snow Brite]

I am SO glad you asked this question! I am just exploring this with my 2nd grader as well! His teacher did the same thing daisyduck suggested and brought the alpha smarts in for the entire class. They kept three of them (she only has 16 kids in her class) and my son gets one every day and two other kids can check them out also. My son does all of his writing on the alphasmart and his typing skills have improved immensely very quickly. I also got him a typing teaching program for the computer at home and I think that is helping.

His teacher lets him do his math test verbally and he has JUMPED in how much better he is doing. It is a timed test, you have to get so many right in such and such a time to move on to the next level. He was taking 2-3 weeks per level. Now he is doing a level in 2-3 tries. It was the WRITING that was holding him back.

My son has severe ADHD and has always been resistant to homework and assignments. He is on Focallin at the moment to help him focus at school. But while that has helped with so many problems, it has not helped with him doing the assignments and homework. We finally figured out that there was something else going on!

One thing I have insisted on is that while he does not have to hand write things for other subjects I want to ensure that he is still getting instruction on HOW TO WRITE. I don't want to just give up on it altogether. His teacher and I were saying though that he is so lucky to live now, when hand writing is not going to be important to his daily life at all, unlike 50 years ago. His teacher also taught him the "arthritic" grip for his pencil. Its awkward at first but has helped him a lot. I cannot explain it, but an OT should be able to.

Other things that I think play a part in this besides the ADHD is that he has sensory perception issues, particularly kinetic ones. An OT can test for this as well, but my son does not like tags in his clothes, or socks in his shoes, or waistbands with a snap and zipper. He is a klutz and bumps into EVERYTHING and is also very sensitive to noise and lights. So he has a walkman with classical music for when he is working at school to block out noise and often will take his big tests in the conference room in the office with all of the fluorescent lights off and just using a lamp and the window light. This sounded a little hippy dippy to me at the time it was discussed but it has made a HUGE difference.

Things we will be adding to my sons IEP are the alphasmart, scribe for writing test, verbal math testing, and OT for hand writing.

Let me know what else you come up with!

 

[HaleyB]

I have a disgraphic child as well.

Two other things that were tried were teaching him to write in cursive. This helped him some, I was surprised. But the Resource teacher said that cursive is really easier than printing. He is very dyslexic and it is much harder to reverse when writing cursive too.

After much thought we decided in his IEP to really work on writing numbers. He will never be able to do a lot with pen and paper but being able to write down a phone number is handy. Small goal, but huge for him. Towards this aim we have him write his math homework (he does half of the assignments) but we turn the paper on it's side- so the lines make columns for him. This really helped him. Also writing on graph paper seems to help him.

The second other mod they tried was a slant board. This gives a slanted writing surface, it did not help my son at all but it is always worth a try.

Oh and we were able to teach him a (almost) correct pencil grip by giving him really short pencils, so short he could not grip them his normal way. Also pens are easier for him. He has some sensory issues and I think the feel of pensil on paper bothers him.

He started on an alphasmart this year. If your school has newer and older ones specify a newer or larger "screen" one. That is all I can think of for now. Good luck.

 

[Snow Brite]

I thought of a couple more that the OT has used when teaching hand writing before we had success with the arthritic grip. She used either a "fat" pencil (the kind they use in Kindergarten) or one of those cushy sleeves for a pencil to help with the sensory issues.

Please do report back in with what happens.

 

[LadyTrampScamp&Angel]

Thank you all for taking the time to offer suggestions and help. I'm going to print out your ideas and put them in my IEP binder.

It almost sounds to me like your son has difficulties with the organization of ideas rather than the mechanics. If that is the case, he needs instruction in specific writing skills of organization as well as the ability to predraft most anything he does

challada - you are right he definitely needs more instruction in the organization of writing, which we will ask for, but he also has problems with the mechanics. He really bears down, and grips his pencil hard, which causes him to fatigue quickly. His OT says he needs that pressure to be able to feel how he's moving. She says he's almost 2 years delayed in those motor skills I got this quote off schwablearning.org "Failure is one of the main causes of poor motivation. Students who expect to fail at writing tasks will engage in them reluctantly, if at all." That is so my DS. I like the predraft idea, will bring that up too. Thanks!

daisyduck123 - thanks so much for your idea re the alphasmarts too. I hope the school has enough of them and would be open to doing that! I hate making him stand out as being so different.

Snow Brite - I'm hoping DS's school will also let him do timed tests verbally. It does make a huge difference. We (especially DH) don't want to give up on handwriting all together either so I'm hoping they will work with him on it and the OT is. She has him write with a weighted pen, maybe that's what you're talking about? I think they are intended for people with tremors but works for giving DS that feeling he needs to know where he is with it. Thanks for all your suggestions

HaleyB - DS says he doesn't like cursive but I actually think it would be better as it kinda flows forward, so we're going to look into that. DS occasionally still flips a number, you know writes it backward? When he was younger they told me that was pretty normal but I think he should've outgrown that by now. He has to really concentrate on forming whatever he is doing That's a good idea about the pens and short pencils, also the slant board - I'm willing to try it all to see what works!

You guys are so smart! Our meeting is this afternoon so I will post an update soon and let y'all know what happened

Have a great weekend!

 

[Pixiedust34]

I have had some success with this handwriting program for my ds:

http://www.hwtears.com/

It's an easy-to-use program that you can do at home if you are interested in handwriting practice. It is great for kids with dysgraphia! You do need to buy their special paper if you use this program because their paper is not the same as lined paper that the schools use.

I hope your meeting goes well today!

 

[ZachnElli]

My neice has this. I can't offer you any advice, but you are not alone. She is also VERY bright. She doesn't have anything else, no ADD or anything. They just diagnosed her last year, but they knew from 1st grade that something wasn't right, she's in 4th now. Best wishes!

 

[minnie61650]

A word of encouragement.
My younger son has dyslexia and dysgraphia. He also has a high IQ.
You would never know he had any of these problems when you talk to him.
He just has trouble writing and spelling. I just wanted to let others know we worked with the schools and went to the IEP's and DS had a B average all through HS and continued on to college and got his degree. He is now 25 and has a very good income.
So keep up the help and the praises and keep working with the teachers. Build a good working relation between the student, the teachers and the parents. You need that good solid triangle and your child will succeed.

I am posting this for those of you have loved ones with dyslexia and/or other LD issues.

Here are the names of some of the many individuals who are dyslexic, or had symptoms of dyslexia or related learning problems:
Actors & Entertainers:
Harry Anderson
Orlando Bloom
Harry Belafonte
Tom Cruise
Dave Foley
Danny Glover
Tracey Gold
Whoopi Goldberg
Susan Hampshire
Jay Leno
Keanu Reeves.
Edward James Olmos
Oliver Reed.
Billy Bob Thornton.
Tom Smothers
Robin Williams
Henry Winkler
Loretta Young
Artists, Designers, & Architects:
Ansel Adams, Photographer.
David Bailey, Photographer.
Leonardo da Vinci.
Ignacio Gomez, Muralist.

Tommy Hilfiger, Clothing Designer. Pablo Picasso.
Robert Rauschenberg.
Auguste Rodin.
Bennett Strahan
Robert Toth
Jørn Utzon (architect, designed Sydney Opera house)
Andy Warhol.
Athletes:
Muhammad Ali, World Heavyweight Champion Boxer
Duncan Goodhew, Olympic Swimmer
Bruce Jenner, Olympic Decathlon Gold Medalist
Magic Johnson
Greg Louganis
Bob May, golfer.
Diamond Dallas Page , World Wrestling Champion.
Steve Redgrave, Olympic Gold Medalist (rowing).
Nolan Ryan, Baseball Pitcher for the Texas Rangers.
Jackie Stewart, race car driver.
Entrepreneurs & Business Leaders:
Richard Branson, Founder of Virgin Enterprises
John T Chambers, CEO of Cisco Systems
Henry Ford.
William Hewlett, Co-Founder, Hewlett-Packard
Craig McCaw, Telecommunications Visionary.
O.D. McKee, founder of McKee Foods.
David Neeleman, CEO of jetBlue Airways.
Paul J. Orfalea, founder of Kinko's.
Charles Schwab , Investor.
Ted Turner, President, Turner Broadcasting Systems
F.W. Woolworth
Filmmakers:
Robert Benton
Nicole Betancourt , Emmy-winning filmmaker
Walt Disney
Søren Kragh Jacobsen (Danish film director)
Inventors & Scientists:
Ann Bancroft, Arctic Explorer.
Alexander Graham Bell.
Thomas Edison.
Albert Einstein.
Michael Faraday.
Dr. James Lovelock.
Willem Hollenbach, astronomical photographer and inventor.
John R. Horner, Paleontologist.
Archer Martin , Chemist (1952 Nobel Laureate)
Pierre Curie, Physicist (1903 Nobel Prize)
John Robert Skoyles, Brain Researcher.
Werner Von Braun
Law & Justice:
David Boies, Attorney.
Erin Brockovich, Investigator.
Jeffrey H. Gallet, Judge.
Military Heroes:
Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson.
George Patton.
Musicians & Vocalists:
Cher .
Brad Little .
John Lennon.
Nigel Kennedy, Violinist.
Bob Weir, Grateful Dead Guitarist.
Physicians & Surgeons
Harvey Cushing, Surgeon.
Fred Epstein,Neurosurgeon.
Political Leaders:
Winston Churchill.
King Carl XVI Gustaf of Sweden.
Michael Heseltine.
Andrew Jackson.
Thomas Jefferson.
John F. Kennedy.
Gavin Newsom, Mayor of San Francisco.
Nelson Rockefeller.
Paul Wellstone,U.S. Senator.
Woodrow Wilson.
George Washington.
Writers:
Hans Christian Andersen
Avi
Jeanne Betancourt, (Author of "My Name is Brain Brian").
Steven Cannell, television writer & novelist.
Larry Chambers.
Andrew Dornenburg, award-winning author and chef.
John Corrigan, novelist..
Agatha Christie.
Fannie Flagg (Author of "Fried Green Tomatoes at the Whistle Stop Cafe").
F. Scott Fitzgerald.
Gustave Flaubert.
Patricia Polacco, Children's Author and Illustrator.
Eileen Simpson (Author of "Reversals").
Elizabeth Daniels Squire (author of mystery novels)
Bernie Taylor, author of Biological Time.
Victor Villaseñor
W.B. Yeats

 

[LadyTrampScamp&Angel]

Thanks for the posts and good wishes everyone.

We're back and I really couldn't be more pleased. I had heard many unpleasant stories about IEP meetings and ours was easy, so that was great too.

The staff is very supportive at DS's school, they know us, we've talked with them a lot about DS's issues. The LD teacher is the mom of one of DS's good friends/classmate. I suppose that made us all feel comfortable with each other and it was easy to talk.

We got everything we asked for and then some. DS will start right away with three 30 minute sessions weekly with the LD teacher. She will work with him on the mechanics and basics (organization and all) of writing and helping him with self-regulation and his attention problems. She is going to talk with the school system's OT on Monday, give her our OT's eval report and talk with her about working with DS. They don't think that getting him OT through the school will be a problem. DS can use a word processor (pending us teaching him to type through the summer), a voice recorder if that works (dictate to himself, then transcribe) and a scribe when necessary. They will allow him to take tests separately, in a room where he won't be distracted by others, give him additional time, and frequent stretch breaks during the tests.

I'm trying to remember it all right now (don't have the IEP in front of me) but one thing I was very pleasantly surprised is that they have the "Play Attention" program at DS's school. www.playattention.com DS's principal said kids really like it and the LD teacher said they could even use it as a reward

I am so very happy and feeling positive about DS's future in school. Thank you all so much. Many of your suggestions we can try out at home also so we'll do that.



Oh BTW I found a book that sounded so much like my DS, it was really helpful too so if anyone else is interested it's called Smart Kids with Learning Difficulties, Overcoming Obstacles and Realizing Potential by Weinfeld, Barnes-Robinson, Jeweler and Shevitz.

 

[ElizK]

Wow! I'm surprised to see how many dysgraphic children we have among us! I'd never even heard of this before my dd10 was diagnosed when she was 8. Something that has worked for us: the doctor said that Ritalin helps about 50% of dysgraphic children Ritalin. They don't know why. But in my child's case, it helped significantly. Her problem is pretty mild, and as of about 2 months ago she no longer qualifies for an IEP. Makes Mom nervous, but she's doing GREAT! I'm so proud of her!

And one other thing I learned... dysgraphia is most often hereditary. If one child is diagnosed, it's possible another of your children might have it. I can see that my older daughter probably has it, too, but more mild than DD10.

 

[teacherforhi]

Most of the state tests are untimed, so the extra time accommodation is usually pretty useless...but you can ask about it.
Chris

The End of Grade tests in NC ARE timed. Timed to the point where students have to write how long it took them to complete the test on their test book. However, if the OP's child only qualifies in writing, then he will not receive extended time on the reading and math tests. There are no writing required on these tests. They are multiple choice.