Need Marriage/Divorce Advice (VERY Long)

[Christine]

Lately, it seems that there have been a few marital discourse posts on this board. A lot of great advice has been given. After something that happened yesterday, I thought maybe I would add my own post. I wanted to go anonymous but, why bother? Also, I feel weird putting this out there, but I have no one that I know personally that I can say all this too without feeling judged or that *they* have some personal, vested interest in my marriage.

I guess I'll start at the end rather than the beginning--what happened yesterday. My husband got in a small accident. He was *probably* tailgating and admittedly, he was not watching what was in front of him. He was in traffic, slow speed and passing by the kids' music school. As he was driving, he was looking into the music school to see if it was open (they have been closed for a week). Everyone in front of him suddenly stopped and he rear-ended someone. He was charged with the accident. So now, my car insurance is probably going to skyrocket as he caused an accident, has points assessed, and there will be repair claims. Doesn't seem like a big deal, right? Well, I was angry and I let him know. Now, historically my DH doesn't like it when I let him know that I think he does stupid things. Gets real defiant. He accuses me of treating him like he is an idiot, etc.

Now, I will go on the the history of this situation.

I got married very young--19. DH was 21 and in the Air Force. I got married for all the wrong reasons. I was partying too much, no direction, everyone around me was directionless, I had dropped out of college, etc. I felt like I was lost at sea and looking for some stability. For some reason, my parents, who had always been stable and guiding for me, stopped when I was 18. I felt I was floundering. About this time, I initiated a relationship with DH (we knew each other in high school but no dating). While he was wild too, compared to everyone else I knew, he seemed very stable. He was also joining the Air Force and we began a long distance relationship. So for most of our "dating" we never saw each other. I really enjoyed being with him and he was fun when we were together. It came to a point though that the LD relationship was wearing thin. It was either get together or break up. As I said, I was floundering and packing up and moving, getting away, seemed like a "direction" for me. Of course, in the Air Force you get no benefits if you just "shack up" (which my parents were recommending). No, we had to get married in order to get more pay and housing benefits. So, we started planning wedding. About a month before the wedding, he came home and right there I felt like my feelings for him weren't as they should be, but I chalked it up to stress. Shortly after that he was involved in an incident (very minor) that caused him to get in to trouble with the military. He was fined, lost a stripe, and was threatened to lose his leave for the wedding. But, they did let him come home to get married. So we went into the marriage with even less money than we thought and we definitely suffered financially. It was such a strain that I had a very rough time. He then got stationed somewhere else, made a bit more money, and things looked up. So we were overseas and then he got charged with drunk driving on base (and he was a cop). He got fined $1,000 (which is a lot if you are an E-4), his promotion was put on hold and he lost his license for one year. Income loss again, plus I was driving him to and from work, etc.

Now those are the two big things. When he got the DUI, I remember him calling me from jail telling me and he said "don't even get on my back about it, I know it was wrong and maybe you should just leave." All I really wanted to do was vent my anger, but I wasn't allowed apparently. I stayed because my pride wouldn't let me pack up and leave. I should have but I was so embarrassed to admit that I didn't have a great marriage.

DH finally got out of the AF and we made a life back here in the States. Our marriage has never been normal by most standards. DH has always had a group of friends that he parties with. I am not much of a "carouser." I didn't think my conservative attitude should interfere with his fun, so I often had no problem with him hanging out with them. Nothing bad came of it, but in hindsight because of this, we never really had a life together. We just sort of did our own thing. Also, after a few months into our marriage, I was never really interested in DH in *that* way anymore, if you know what I mean. This has ALWAYS been a horrible sore spot as you can imagine. Don't get me wrong, I still have interest in my head, just not that wild about him.

About 9 years into the marriage I got pregnant due to failed birth control and it happened again 3 years after that. That's how we have two children. I always wanted kids but could never embrace the idea with DH (this was all not very clear to me at the time). Things went well and still do. We get along, we don't argue much, etc. We are very calm people.

BUT, I feel as if I have 3 children, not two. I don't feel that DH takes much care of me, I feel like I do it all. He feels like he does it all. How do you settle that?

We both work full time. Due to his job, he has to leave the house at 4:30 a.m. Due to this, I have full responsibility for the kids each morning (getting them up, breakfast, packing lunches, getting to daycare etc.). This causes me to be very stressed, be in the worst commuting traffic you can imagine. I KNOW THIS IS NOT HIS FAULT. But, I am still stressed out. I then come home and cook dinner and about half the time clean up. DH is either doing yard work or fixing his bike. If he isn't doing that, he will either play X-Box or go running. I do 90% of the laundry, and probably 60% of the house cleaning, sometimes more. If I back off, it won't get done. He takes care of the dogs. I also do all the grocery shopping (since I cook). He changes the oil in the cars.

Okay, well I'm getting too detailed. So, last year he takes the dog to the vet. After that, he stops and gets some carryout and thinks the dog might be *happier* in the bed of the pickup truck versus in the cab. So he puts her back there while parked. She freaks out and jumps out shattering her leg. This cost $2500. The reason I bring this up is that my DH has done some stupid things and each and everyone of them have cost the family money. Just when I think we've got a bit of savings he does something so irresponsible that it just ticks me off. Last night was the accident.

Now, of course this isn't all about stupid things. I think you can gather that a long time ago I lost the proper feelings for my DH. I even brought it out in the open about 5 years ago because it kind of hit me then (oh does age ever bring wisdom). DH was totally surprised. I felt our marriage was very empty and it had never occurred to him!!! Except for the intimacy part. We are just so different. We have nothing to talk about unless it's the kids, we have no discussions, nothing in common. DH was okay with this. I wasn't. He's happy to have his sports and biking and guy friends and have me around doing the home things. When we go out we don't have much to say to each other at all. It is getting to the point that I'm not even comfortable around him anymore. It is coming from me too. He has also, historically, been quite passive/aggressive. Usually I would do something *wrong* that would either hurt his feelings, piss him off etc. I never knew what those things were. I would just know that there were times that, all of a sudden, he would be very quiet and uncommunicative. This would go on for days and I would get so upset. It would take me days of questioning to figure out that I had either said something sarcatic that he took personally or lord knows what else. He still pulls this passive crap except that I don't try to find out anymore what I did (which I guess he wants me to do) and that only prolongs things. But, I've had it.

Also, I've had a major health crisis and I felt that he was really of no comfort to me. I had cancer surgery and when he came to the hospital he just kind of laid on my bed, watched TV and paced around wondering when we could get out of there. He was also very "uncomforting" at the hospital when Ihad my second child. I guess it was boring for him. He allowed his father to come pick us up (why I don't know because we live 5 minutes away and have our own car). He and his father spent one hour bugging the nurses to sign my release papers because THEY were tired of sitting there. I just wanted to stay at the hospital. I know all this sounds petty, but there are a million different incidences where these things happen. I tell DH, but he turns it around and says I don't allow him to help me.

Last night he broached the topic of this unhappiness and felt that we would be better off apart. I agree with him; however, HOW do people live apart? We live in a very expensive area of the country. We both make about the same money. I just don't know how I would be able to live. It is a shame to have to stay together for the "money" but it seems like how can you not? I stand to lose a lot in a divorce--my home, my health insurance, retirement, etc.

As for counseling, I don't think it would work. The interest is just not there for me. It would be different if I was really in love but was upset over a certain behavior. But I just feel numb inside. And I believe it is really effecting my mental health. What do you do after 21 years of marriage?

So, I guess I want to know two things: Has anyone been in a marriage like this and do you think it's worth staying in AND exactly how is a divorce handled if it is amicable (and I hope it is) and you have no money to spend on such a thing?

Oh, that was way too long.

Thanks.

 

[DoeWDW]

I still recommend counseling. You can use the counseling to either work on the marriage or to help you sort through the decision of whether to stay married or not. You need some outside objective party to talk to and that's what a counselor is. Please, please, please don't do anything before you've spent some time with a counselor. These decisions will affect you, your DH and, most importantly, the kids.

DH and I went through a similar period. We went to counseling and jokingly told each other that we'd stay married for another 5 years. Then if we still wanted to divorce, we would. That was 16 years ago and we are very happily married with 2 teenagers. The stress of 2 small kids, 2 full-time jobs and financial worries was the real problem, and I'm glad we rode it out and are still together.

Best wishes as you look to the future.

 

[mickeyboat]

for you Christine. I haven't had a chance to digest your post, so a hug for right now. I am sorry you are going through this and I hope for the best for you.

Denae

 

[popeyeohoh]

No advice here. Just wishing you and your children peace and happiness.

 

[Pin Wizard]

Tough decisions. A counselor may be able to sort things and help you find some answers.

 

[Fizban257]

Another vote for counseling, here. My ex-wife and I didn't seek counseling when our marriage broke up, and it's hurt our ability to effectively parent our son. We both still harbor some pretty strong feelings of anger and resentment and we've been apart for almost eleven years. I can't help but wonder if counseling might at least have gotten us beyond this point so we could better partner in raising our son.

 

[enchantedpixiedust]

I'm sorry for what you're going through - I have a meeting but will write later, just wanted to say we're here for you.

 

[EsmeraldaX]

 

[danacara]

Right off the bat I'd get on the phone and line up some therapy for yourself - just yourself, to talk about everything including and beyond the marriage. You have a lot inside, and to share it with someone may clarify answers in your head. I think the cancer surgery alone would've been enough to throw me for a loop! You've soldiered on a long time. Good luck with everything.

 

[MAC3]

I have no advise for you I just wanted to offer {{{HUGS}}} and hope all works out for your family be it together or apart. But just to be happy!

 

[aprincessmom]

Has anyone been in a marriage like this and do you think it's worth staying in AND exactly how is a divorce handled if it is amicable (and I hope it is) and you have no money to spend on such a thing?

I was in a marriage that ended in divorce. We were together for many years prior to getting married and then were married for 4 more years before we had a child. And then things changed dramatically. It was noticable to me, it was noticable to family members, friends, co-workers...everyone. And it was truly just a bunch of "little things" but they were little things that really meant a great deal in the scheme of things because they pointed to issues of respect, understanding, trust, and committment.

Yes, the divorce was amicable but it stil doesn't make it any easier. Yes, it was the best thing for both of us but my daughter is suffering for it in many other ways. Yes, it was easier to handle an amicable divorce but it still costs time and money and emotional capital that is never easy to reconcil or accept.

You need to remember one thing -- you may divorce him but he will be in your life for the rest of your life. That is the one thing people with children forget. This person, the father of your children, will have a relationship with you and them for the rest of all of your lives. And while you can't save the marriage you owe it to your children to be able to work together as parents. That is your responsibility and it doesn't end when you don't live in the same house.

Whether you realize it or not, counseling will help you. Maybe it won't save your marriage -- honestly, if you have already decided this is what you want then there isn't a lot a counselor can do to save your marriage -- but it will help you both work together to parent your children. You need to understand how to work together, come up with coping strategies to use when one or the other of you does something that is upsetting...you need to learn how to have a relationship with the father of your children.

Divorce is a moment in time. The reality is your children will bind you to this person until the end of time. And it is up to you and your husband to be grown-ups and learn how to be parents together while living separate lives.

 

[snoopy]

Personally, I could not imagine a marriage where there is no love or intimacy.

But I can certainly see why people stay in marriages for the sake of their children. Its hard to uproot your children, particularly kids as old as yours, and ask them to acclimate into a life completely different than what they are use to. Many couples forsake love and intimacy for that reason, as well as for financial reasons -- lets face it, two incomes combined are better than two separate incomes.


I guess if I were you I would seriously sit down with my husband and figure out if separating is really what is best in the long run. I mean, one of you will probably be the custodial parent with the other parent paying child support......when it comes right down to it, is that what you really want? You've been in a loveless marriage for a long time, would it be possible to try and work it out, at least until the kids are old enough and out of the house? These would be the type of things I would be thinking of first, and then if I came to the conclusion of separation, I'd next be looking at affordable places to live with my children that would make for the easiest possible transition.

Christine. I hope it works out for you and your family, whatever decision you arrive at.

 

[tmli]

If you read my thread, you know I understand. I think that is the scariest part for me... how do you do this?

Good Luck to you, the important thing is to take care of yourself and be strong enough to look out for your own best interests as well. I learned that here!!!

 

[Toby'sFriend]

I don't have much advice Christine. I've had friends ask me the same kinds of things and the best I can come up with "you can always get divorced after the counselling if it doesn't work, but marriage counselling after a divorce is kind of out of the question."

I'm sorry you are facing this. In the same situation I would definately be finding therapist. I can tell you from experience though that not all Marriage Counselors are created equal and sometimes you have to try 2 or 3 before you'll run into one that is acceptable for both parties.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

I suppose if I were in your shoes I would better my life first.

Get counseling, get financially ready to be "divorced". In other words plan and get yourself mentally and physically optimum.
Exhaust yourself to make yourself in peak condition.

I hope that make sense.

 

[Microcell]

Please, please, please try counseling! Your kids are depending on you.

 

[caitycaity]

christine, i am so sorry you're going through this. regardless of whether you choose to go to marriage counselling, i agree with other posters that you should go to counselling just for you too. good luck with your decision, and if you ever need an ear, i am here to listen.

 

[jrydberg]

Only you and your husband can determine if the marriage is worth saving. None of us can really make that call.

My divorce was relatively amicable and it cost me about $1000 with a good lawyer. Probably could've done it cheaper. Basically you just need papers drawn up to submit to the court. You sign, he signs, submit to the judge and as long as it seems reasonable to the judge (particularly regarding child support), it's done.

Good luck with everything. It will all work out for the best, eventually

 

[KristiKelly]

I'm really sorry for what you're going through. I don't recall, did you mention how old your kids are? Someone mentioned hanging in there until your kids are out of the house. I disagree with that. I grew up in a divorced home as did DH, it's no fun - but, I don't think it would do the kids any favors by staying. I don't really know how to explain what I'm thinking, but I'll give it my best shot. Is your unhappy marriage apparent to others & your kids? If your kids see that you & your husband are not happy, they might think that's how a marriage is suppose to be, that it's just normal. You don't want your kids to think they should just "settle" for anyone & for them to think, it doesn't matter - marriage is not suppose to be happy anyway - does that make sense? Sometimes, the best thing for the kids is to see their parents happy, even if it means seeing them apart. I would suggest counseling for you & then maybe for you & your husband whether it's together or separate, if for no other reason than to figure out how to handle a divorce amicably & how to make it as easy as possible for your kids. Good Luck!!

 

[Christine]

Thanks for all the replies so far.

Snoopy - I would be perfectly willing to live together until the children are older. In fact, that is basically what we have been trying to do for the past 3 years or so. For the most part, if I immerse myself in the kids, work, chores, etc., it goes by. But when it comes to vacations, fun, and that stuff, there is just nothing there. We've tried several vacations and the end up flops because DH always ends up pouting about something. I've taken to vacationing without him. But, it seems that my husband has the problem with this "toughing it out." He can't seem to detach himself, I guess. He is constantly being hurt by my indifference, I suppose and is bugged because I'm not up for the intimate portions. He cannot deal with that. So, on his side, this is not working. He wants me there as a 100% wife even though we have discussed that I cannot be. And when I try to put on the facade of being that way, deep down he knows I'm not.

Another poster asked if my kids knew. Yes, I think they are beginning to see. Now we do not fight or have disagreements. But, they see a lack of a "team" that should be there and they definitely see that mom and dad don't seem to have much fun together. I don't think it is bothering them overly, but they notice. I do believe that us staying married IS better for them. But that cannot trump out two adults being very miserable can it?

By the way, my kids are DD (13) and DS (9).