Need Marriage/Divorce Advice (VERY Long)

[Christine]

I meant to discuss counseling also.

I'm not totally against counseling. In fact, I spent MUCH time in it myself since my cancer diagnosis. I have many other anxiety issues. We have always discussed my marriage at some point and the general consensus has been that my DH may not be supportive enough.

He has had some counseling on his own and, of course, I am the villian there.

We've never tried joint counseling but have looked into it. Very expensive for what we checked out. We have not had much success with some of free counseling we received.

I won't say that we have thoroughly investigated this option but, right now, it seems pointless as far as saving a marriage. But, I do think it would be a good idea as far as parenting goes.

 

[snoopy]

Yes, Christine, both sides would have to agree to living together for the sake of the children for it to work. If both sides were indifferent, I do believe it could work. Wouldn't be much different than two friends living together. But when one party wants more than the other can give, nope, can't see that working.



Do try some counseling, if nothing else, a trained therapist can help you sort it all out.

 

[chrissyk]

My parents are still married, but they are, and have always been, like 2 ships passing in the night. It was not lost on me as a child that they had no relationship with each other. The pathetic thing is that they will both say that they have a good relationship They will literally go for MONTHS without talking to each other, even to this day.

This is just my honest opinion, but I think that I would have been a lot happier if they'd gotten divorced when I was a kid. For some reason, they never considered that option, though. If they were divorced, there wouldn't have been terrible stress in the house whenever my father was home. Also, if he had visitation, perhaps he would have been forced to deal with his children instead of ignorning us.

Seeing my parents' empty marriage taught me nothing of what a marriage was supposed to be. I would watch TV and see Mike and Carol Brady being so lovey-dovey, and then get confused when I saw my own parents being so cold and nasty to each other. I married young, and thankfully my husband had a very good idea of how to have a warm, close relationship with your spouse. I really lucked out! On the other hand, my younger sister is 28, still lives with my parents, and hasn't had a relationship in 6 years. She doesn't think that she can "stand" anyone well enough to marry them. That's what my parents' version of marriage taught my sister

Sorry that this is so long, but I wanted to give the child's view of life inside of an empty marriage. Good luck with whatever you decide. Only you know what is best for you and your children.

 

[aprincessmom]

I can tell you from experience though that not all Marriage Counselors are created equal and sometimes you have to try 2 or 3 before you'll run into one that is acceptable for both parties.

ITA...that was my experience as well.

Yes, I think they are beginning to see. Now we do not fight or have disagreements. But, they see a lack of a "team" that should be there and they definitely see that mom and dad don't seem to have much fun together. I don't think it is bothering them overly, but they notice.

I wouldn't be surprised if it is bothering them but they haven't told you because they don't want to upset you. Even DD, who was quite young at the time, realized something wasn't right and in her own way tried to make us happy together. It wasn't until after the divorce was final and she felt comfortable in the situation to comment to me that she could tell I was not happy with her dad and that she was glad to have her happy mom back again.

In fact, her behavior and general disposition, which wasn't noticeably bad during that time, improved dramatically when her dad moved out. She was less tense, less quiet, and much more like herself. We never argued in front of her or let her feel as though we weren't a family...in fact, we thought we hid our feelings and actions very well but it turns out we didn't at all.

 

[NMAmy]

Christine-- I'm so sorry that you're going through this. It's a very personal decision and though we can give you advice, it will really depend on what you want for your life. It's a terrible thing to go through but things will get better.

And just a note about retirement: If you do divorce, you are entitled to half your husband's retirement funds up to the date of the divorce. Talk to an attorney to find out your rights.

My ex will probably never retire in an effort to keep me from getting half! He has an excellent retirement plan and the two of us were planning on retiring on that. I worked jobs that did not have great retirement plans.

 

[Serena]

Living without my husband wasnt so much the hard part. It was being afraid of being alone. Not lonely, since I had been that for a long time. But actually being alone. I had never done that in my life.
I've had counseling, I'm on an antidepressant, I journal, and I count my blessings. Sometimes to the point that I woke up that morning. It helps.
My divorce will be final in a couple weeks. Instead of feeling like trash that someone threw away, I feel freedom. I'm free to be me, to be happy. I'm free to make my choices for good or bad. I have made sacrifices, and will have to make more. But my soon to be ex is a good ex-husband. Probably a better ex than he ever was a husband. But that's also because of how I've dealt with things. I could have done a lot of things to make getting along harder than it is. I've taken the highroad, and everyone is better for it. My kids, my inlaws that live next door, and my ex. And I'm proud of how I've acted, THAT is what's most important to me. Whatever comes, will come. It's how you deal with it that makes the person you are and your future.

But I won't have a marriage without love. I've learned I just can't do it. Maybe some day my prince will come. In the mean time, I plan to be happy, or as well as I can, and try to live life each day.

 

[totalia]

Maybe I'm the wrong person to ask but...

I divorced my "child."

I married at 22 years old. We had been together for 4 years by that point and were together for another 3.

I realized LONG before we had kids that dealing with his behavior would be a lifelong problem. When it devolved to him coming very close to hitting me (I knew it was a matter of time) I left.

I reccomend a counsellor but I have the feeling that isn't going to work. Your man seems to want a mother, not a wife.

I wouldn't stand for it. Pride or no pride and kids or no kids.

 

[Tiggeroo]

You need to ask yourself some hard questions. Do you think you'd be a better person alone. Are there personal problems/issues that you need to work on. Often we have problems that we bring into a marriage, then we project those problems onto the marriage. If you dealt with those problems would you be a better wife and mother. Why in the world aren't you and dh into counseling together. I know you say it's expensive but in the long run a divorce will be much more expensive then a year of counseling. You've stuck it out this long, what would 4 months of really trying hurt. It sounds like dh doesn't want a divorce, just doesn't like living with you unavailable.

 

[Poohnatic]

Christine,

I really feel for you and send you .

While my situation wasn't the same, some aspects of your life mirror my first marriage. The passive agressive behavior was a big portion of how my ex treated me. Then he left for another woman.

We split, and I entered therapy. That was the best thing I ever did for myself. Not marriage counseling-personal therapy. I was fortunate that I had a great lady as my therapist (and a few years later, as a coworker).

As the child of divorced parents, I can tell you I was happier that my parents split. It was better to have the two of them apart and happy, than together and fighting. Even if you're not arguing, the tension in your relationship will impact your kids.

I will say, your concern about money is a valid one. Here I am, 10 years later and FINALLY out of the financial hole (he charged up credit cards before he left and fought the divorce so that he could run up my legal bills). It was far better to be free of him and deal with the debt-something I never would have considered when I was with the EX.

You are worth more than what your husband is giving you in your life.

Suzanne

P.S. I have a happy ending. I'm married to my closest friend (who was friends with both me and the ex) and have the two kids I wanted. It does happen!

 

[disykat]

I also say counseling. We found it very helpful and are still together. Our marriage counseling was actually paid by our medical insurance because I was so upset and received a depression diagnosis - my doctor prescribed it.

There are parts of your post I could have written. I too have a passive-agressive spouse who is at times uncommunicative. I like to express frustrations verbally - sometimes too much for him to handle. The only difference I saw was that HE is the one who withholds sex if he is unhappy with me, whereas I see it as a way we can create bonds.

We actually negotiated some change. Now we have an agreement where I can vent if I'm unhappy about something stupid he did, but I'm allowed only a certain timeframe to do it in. I agreed to give him space to stew, but he agreed to be more forthcoming about his anger - and try to communicate his feelings to me verbally. We try to set aside time each week to do something fun together - even if it's finding a tv show we can both enjoy. We also try to set aside time to "talk" - kind of like making an appointment to fight - when we need to. He is also trying to be willing to hug me, etc. when he is mad, realizing that for me that is key to the making up process.

Our major problems were 9 years ago now. I can honestly say we have a happy, loving marriage. Not perfect, but happy. We both feel like we are happier together than we would be apart. Many of the problems we had/have would follow us into divorce (his parents, etc.), so using divorce as the solution just didn't make sense for us. While I would hope for something slightly different for our children, I think we set an example of compromise and of working to make your marriage work for you. Our kids see us being affectionate with one another (I think that is VERY important) and can tell that we have love for each other.

I read a book at the time called "Divorce Busting" by Michelle Weiner-Davis that I found very helpful.

Best wishes whatever you decide. I know this must be a very difficult time for you.

 

[chell]

s to you no matter what you decide.

 

[floridaminnie]

Children know the tension is there and know that something is wrong. Just sending {{Hugs}}

 

[Antonia]

My nieces suffer the consequences of a broken home. I would not recommend it to anyone. The are shuffled between two homes and it is not good. They definitely feel the consequences of the divorce and it has been several years. They are now 8 & 10 and sometimes they seem worn down and depressed by having parents in two differnent places. Neither parent ended up all that happy after the divorce and the mom has definitely suffered financially. I would not recommend divorce unless Dh was abusing you physically. Work it out through counseling. Nobody ever said marriage was a bed of roses.

 

[snarfer1]

Dear Christine:

I'm sorry for your pain, but glad that you chose to ask your DIS family for some help. You are NOT alone.

I agree with most of the others, you will benefit from personal counseling. There is nothing wrong with you that needs to be 'fixed' but a good counselor can give you an objective assessment of your life and offer new and effective coping strategies. You are a great candidate, you see/admit the problem, want a solution, are clearly intelligent and motivated! Just note, you need the right counselor, if you don't 'click' with the first therapist, try again, remeber that they work for you!

Having said that, IMO, (thanks to your honest reporting of who you were, and what you were thinking at that time), you never had a marriage, just a roommate!

And now the roommate has become a lazy roommate!

As in most American homes the wife (especially when she works), works longer and harder by doing most of the domestic chores as well.

Of interest, is your claim of birth control failure twice, IMHO this was a sunconcious attempt on your part to improve the marriage, perhaps by making your H (BTW-why is he still DH, not just H or DR [Dear Roommate?]) into a father with 'real' responsibilities. (Just MHO, YMMV!)

Old school thought was that kids do better in school and life if unhappy parents stick it out. New school data suggests just the opposite, kids (even todlers) aren't fooled by their unhappy parents acting and grow up unhappy, and frequently divorced.

So if your primary concern is your Dear Children get divorced.

However, life is not that simple, and your needs and wants also must be considered. That doesn't make you selfish, just human !

Can you live with a roomate in a non-intimate situation? (He certainly won't, not forever. Does he get your permission to go out and play? What if he gets a disease? or falls in love with someone else?) Basically, I don't see the current situation being able to last long-term.

Thus as another poster suggested, get yourself prepared.

You need a lawyer to secure your share of his retirement!
What about child support?
Where will you live?
With your past medical history, your medical costs may be much greater than 'average', and coverage (with your prior diagnosis) very hard to get/afford!

Thus along with counseling to give you new options, skills and hopefully strength, you need to consider education for a better job, solo bank accounts, STARTING SOLO CREDIT CARDS NOW to establish a solo credit history, etc.

No path that you choose will be painless or easy, but what I see right now is:

You are unhappy and know you derserve better (you do!),
Are concerned about life after divorce (you should be),
and DH/DR is gonna stray, especially without the intimacy. (meaning even if you wanted it to, this current situation will not continue much longer-so a change is comming)

It is best that you pre-plan these changes as opposed to reacting to them.

I hope this response came across correctly. It was meant to be a warm and supportive expose of the options available to you. I have nothing but respect and good wishes for you.

Hope, Love and Pixie Dust,

Tony

 

[Christine]

Originally posted by snarfer1
Dear Christine:


Of interest, is your claim of birth control failure twice, IMHO this was a sunconcious attempt on your part to improve the marriage, perhaps by making your H (BTW-why is he still DH, not just H or DR [Dear Roommate?]) into a father with 'real' responsibilities. (Just MHO, YMMV!)


Tony

Tony,
I had to comment on this one!! Believe me, there was nothing subconcious there. This is probably TMI but due to my inability to tolerate birth control pills with estrogen (back in 1990 they didn't have all the good ones they have now), I had to take a progesterone-only pill, called Micronor--sometimes called the mini-pill. I was told that it was 96% effective versus 99% effective. What my GYN did not tell me was that there was a one-hour pill taking window on this pill (versus up to an 8-hour window on a regular pill). This meant that every weekday I took that pill at 6:00 a.m. but on weekends it might be 9:00 a.m. How I made it 2 1/2 years without getting pregnant is a miracle. Of course, I didn't find out any of this until much later. After the first accidental pregnancy, I went back on that pill thinking it was just a fluke (I NEVER missed a pill). I made it another 2.5 to 3 years. I was moving at this time and I had to get an new GYN. When I told him the whole story, the new GYN informed me about the drawbacks to that pill. He said he NEVER, EVER puts a woman on it who is serious about birth control. Only breastfeeding women!! Great, huh?

As for the rest of your post, thanks for the advice. It is all taken well.

I am a little concerned about the retirement issue. I mean, my DH kind of blames me for all this. He feels that *I* am the one who fell out of love and am causing all this pain. I guess he's right. Should I be entitled to all this *stuff* when I am essentially the one bailing on the marriage?

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Originally posted by Christine
I mean, my DH kind of blames me for all this. He feels that *I* am the one who fell out of love and am causing all this pain. I guess he's right. Should I be entitled to all this *stuff* when I am essentially the one bailing on the marriage?

Sorry it takes two to tango. You both share the blame.

Same thing for a successful marriage. It works because BOTH people want it too.

 

[MeanLaureen]

I can understand your fear of "how can I do this" - about leaving the comfort zone of two incomes and being alone for the first time in a long time.

I had to make this decision back in 1998. I had thought about it for a long time but I had such horrible self esteem, I tolerated more than I should have. If it wasn't for something extremely horrible that he did to me, I'm not sure what would have happened.

I know in the state of VA you have to be seperated for at least a year when you have children before you get divorced. Have you ever thought of just doing a trial separation?

Maybe your judgment is clouded and you don't realize how much he does mean to you until he is no longer a constant in your life.

The advice of staying together for the children - PLEASE - never do that. Children can see and feel the tension between parents who are only in it for convenience, not love. It's one of the worst things you can do to kids growing up. Children are happy when their parents are happy. And if that means that their parents live apart, well, that is just for the best.

Just be sure to never, EVER, trash your husband in front of them. Unless he does something majorly wrong like murder, you should never speak about him in a negative light. Remember that your children realize that they were also created by him and by criticizing him, you are also criticizing part of their makeup also. They may play along to make mom happy, but deep down inside, they hurt. Trust me.. I was one of them.

Take care and you will be in my thoughts

 

[snarfer1]

Christine, I hate to admit it but I was clearly wrong about the unconscious pregnancies! (In other words, IMHO - I'm wrong!)

You have worked longer and harder than your DR, and you are entitled to some of the retirement!

You do not need to be vicious in a divorce, but you need to be true to yourself and your kids.

I also agree with the prior poster MeanLaureen about always being nice and not knocking your ex, who will always remain your children's DAD!

Best of luck, and keep us informed, we're here to help if we can!

Tony

 

[RobinMarie]

Christine I read your entire posts and the responses. I believe you have received excellent advice.

I kept wondering if you had a realization after your diagnosis of cancer. I've heard stories of re-newed appreciation for others and yet others where 'life was too short to settle for less..'

I would encourage counseling for you individually and later bringing in your husband. You both have so much time invested it seems worth a little more investment to figure things out.

 

[lightningcoach]

Christine,

Even if you believe it was just circumstances a long time ago that brought you and your DH together there must have been some kind of attraction. Something more than just an arranged marriage feel. Some little spark.

I would try for an entire month (even if it feels like its killing you) to pour into your DH. Take care of him, build him up, treat him like a king and a protector. Encourage him, send special notes to him, cook him his favorite meals, be intimate with him and let him know that you are on his side.

Call it reverse psychology, but most men do not respond to anyone telling them to change. They need to feel needed. We all have that need. Most people will go to where others are giving encouragement. People know when they screw up and no one likes someone reminding them they screwed up. We would rather be around people that tell us "it's okay that really stinks but I am by your side". That is probably why he is hanging out with his party buddies still.

A great book to read is "The Five Love Languages." We are all different and each of us have different needs. I went thorugh the same thing you are going through with your DH. It took me changing my attitude and behavoir first to then get him to want to make a change to improve our marriage. We are 90% better than where we started 10 years ago.

My prayers are with you.