Need help explaining something ... opinions

[rockundergirl]

So soon to be dh and I have very different ideas about money. We talk about it a lot.. and most of the time just respectfully each do things our own way. His accountant ( his uncle ) told him that filing jointly is almost always better tax wise once you are married and he mentioned it at dinner last night. This sparked our first in depth conversation about taxes... it went poorly.

Me : I claim 3, to insure I get a very small refund at the end of the year, I see no purpose having the gov't hold onto my money all year and gift it back to me like its a gift...

Him : claims 0, so that at the end of the year he joyfully gets back an insane refund in one lump and feels like he hit the lotto. ( as a side effect he sees this as fun money to be wasted)

I tried many different angles to explain why I feel so strongly about my way of doing things.
Also.. I'm a little up set at this because we decide on who pays what bills on how much we each make in our paychecks each month... I was not happy to find that hes shorting himself about 500 a month that he gets back in a refund and wastes.. while I have my paychecks paying out how they should and in turn I'm paying more then my share of the bills. ( to give you an idea of our math.. If our paychecks combined are say 10k per month , and 4 k of it was from my pay check, I make 40% of the money so I pay 40% of the mortgage, 40% utilities etc) I thought this was a fair way to each have a fair amount of spending money / extra money etc.. Its not perfect since I work a lot more hours and still make less then him lol , but it works for us.

His solution : I start claiming 0 then a the end of the year we split the refund as fun money or spend it on a family vacation or something.

my solution :we meet in the middle he claims 1, I claim 2 when taxes are done we spend the money on something for the family .. vacation/ home upgrade etc..

What do you guys think? I'm a missing any factors that might help me explain my point? Maybe I'm just wrong? Idk... its crazy how much we talk about money and try to be open and still stuff keeps coming up .

 

[Microcell]

Ohhhhh... You have to get on the same page before you get married. Money issues are usually a big factor in divorces.

I think Dave Ramsey or other Gurus might have a better explaination so he can see it in black and white. I know it is very smart to do what you do, and horribly not smart doing it the way your DH to be does. I do like your DH does because we are not yet disciplined enough to save back anything we might owe on taxes. We are in the process of paying down debt so it all goes to that. The surest way for you all to incur debt is to spend like its found money.

Good luck!

 

[lost*in*cyberspace]

You are correct, your future husband is wrong. He essentially is loaning the government his own money interest free. Not smart financially. It's a forced savings plan where the government gets all of the benefits. I agree that you need to talk about finances before getting married. If your husband just can't handle money, perhaps you two need to agree that you will manage the money.

 

[moonpie85]

My husband and I have joint everything because we agree thankfully. But I just want to say my parents have been happily married for 45 yrs now and have always kept everything separate because they don't agree on finances. This is what works for them.

Yes, it's smarter to jointly file but if it saves frustration perhaps you should go ahead and file separately.

Good luck.

 

[Kellydelly]

The tax thing is a dumb thing to argue over. My dh claims like 4, I think so that we get more out of his paycheck to pay living expenses, I claim 1, so that we don't owe any taxes and should get some back (and honestly you may think he's giving the gvt his money to play with all year, but if you would blow it/not invest it otherwise than it is not a dumb idea!). It's not a big deal. What is a big deal is how you guys split your expenses from your paychecks. When I got married I made less than half of what dh made (I worked as a nanny). We got a mortgage based on what his income would cover, not including mine. He has always paid the mortgage/bills from mostly his paychecks. Both of our money has always gone into one account, there is no division of who is paying what for bills or who gets more fun money. It's his, mine, and ours. So all the bills are paid from OUR money. It shouldn't matter who is bringing more or less in, it should be treated equal in how you guys spend it. I think if it isn't you guys will never agree on financial issues. Dh covered our bills by himself for 10 yrs until I started working as a nurse and now bring in extra income to the equation again. Do you guys have a plan for children and if you are going to work or stay home with them? I would straighen out financial goals and ideas before you tie the knot. If you are not on the same page with tax exemptions there are much bigger things in the future that will trip up your relationship. Unless your fiance is a moron with money and you can't trust him, I don't think you should worry so much about his tax status.

 

[rockundergirl]

The tax thing is a dumb thing to argue over. My dh claims like 4, I think so that we get more out of his paycheck to pay living expenses, I claim 1, so that we don't owe any taxes and should get some back (and honestly you may think he's giving the gvt his money to play with all year, but if you would blow it/not invest it otherwise than it is not a dumb idea!). It's not a big deal. What is a big deal is how you guys split your expenses from your paychecks. When I got married I made less than half of what dh made (I worked as a nanny). We got a mortgage based on what his income would cover, not including mine. He has always paid the mortgage/bills from mostly his paychecks. Both of our money has always gone into one account, there is no division of who is paying what for bills or who gets more fun money. It's his, mine, and ours. So all the bills are paid from OUR money. It shouldn't matter who is bringing more or less in, it should be treated equal in how you guys spend it. I think if it isn't you guys will never agree on financial issues. Dh covered our bills by himself for 10 yrs until I started working as a nurse and now bring in extra income to the equation again. Do you guys have a plan for children and if you are going to work or stay home with them? I would straighen out financial goals and ideas before you tie the knot. If you are not on the same page with tax exemptions there are much bigger things in the future that will trip up your relationship. Unless your fiance is a moron with money and you can't trust him, I don't think you should worry so much about his tax status.

Well it might be a little different in our situation. We are both working professionals. I have a son from a prior marriage, we do plan on having a child together, but I would never consider being a stay at home mom. We are both very independent people. In addition , because I'm divorced the idea of relying on someone else's income is a bad idea to me. My goal is to have the most comfortable lifestyle I can for my family, while not being dependent on anyone in order to afford that lifestyle. ( clearly this a goal . but not 100% achievable.. you always have some dependence). I like our % based division , but it all goes out the window if its not done fairly.. Thank you for your advice, I will think about it, and what it means.

 

[MomToOne]

For this immediate issue, I think you just need to come up with a different way to split the bills. Instead of basing what you each pay on take home, base it either on gross pay or gross pay minus insurance, etc. (if one of you are carrying the bulk of those type of expenses).

Of course, there's also then the long term issues. If you two are otherwise on the same page financially then I think you can meet in the middle on this one issue somewhere. But if you are a save a lot/carefully consider every penny type and he's a spend a lot/who knows what tomorrow holds so spend it now type, or vice versa, then I think you need to find someone to help you both get on the same page before you get married.

 

[DisneyDebbie]

DH and I have separate accounts and we each pay what was decided in our original discussion. We didn't % base the decision, we decided which bills to pay by our gross income. For example, he pays the mortgage and utilities, I pay for the groceries, cable, internet, and kid stuff. Obviously, he pays more per month, b/c he makes more $. We each take care of our own car. We do get some money back at tax time -not a huge amount- that goes into our joint savings, and we have to discuss before we use that money.

I never thought I would like this type of situation, but I do. We rarely fight over money issues. However, we are both very dependable when it comes to paying our bills, and neither of us carry credit card debt.

As for your tax issues, try it one way for a year, if you don't like it, do something different the next year.

 

[Irin997]

Right after DH and I got married 6 months ago we combined all of our finances. It was actually a much easier transition than I thought it would be. We pool all of our money, pay all of the bills from one account, and then just let the other know if we plan on spending an unusual amount on something. But mostly it's just gas and groceries. It's worked out so well and we're working toward a common financial goal...saving for a house.

 

[2disneyboys]

the thing is, you two need to be on the same page BEFORE you get married. You need to have candid talks about your financial goals and plans. Both of you have to be willing to compromise some. neither of you should be the only one "changing" or switching. I know plenty of couples who do the money both ways.... joint accounts & seperate accounts... and I also know plenty of people who perfer to get huge refunds from Uncle Sam in the spring and others who would rather pay each quarter than get a big refund. Technically, neither way is right or wrong for all. Individually, DH would prefer to get a huge refund (this is how his parents did it his whole life and what feel's comfortable to him) I on the other hand, don't mind a little refund (I don't want to OWE) but I don't want a refund over 500-1000. you need to discuss this as a couple and figure out what is going to work best for your family.

lets say he wants to keep his withholdings how they are, but you want to keep yours how they are... you are getting more of your money throughout the year and he is waiting until tax time to get the rest of his money. if the bills division is based on the amt of your paychecks, then the refunds and or bills from IRS shoudl be the same.. lets say his refund is $2500 and your's is $600... as a family, you now have $3100 to spend, save, whatever. if he does not like this option, then I say you need to redivide how the bills are divided so that it takes into account that your check is only bigger because you are are not waiting until spring to "get" the rest of your money.

Good Luck

 

[rockundergirl]

Right after DH and I got married 6 months ago we combined all of our finances. It was actually a much easier transition than I thought it would be. We pool all of our money, pay all of the bills from one account, and then just let the other know if we plan on spending an unusual amount on something. But mostly it's just gas and groceries. It's worked out so well and we're working toward a common financial goal...saving for a house.

This is probably how most do it. Effective plan. i think i would just be in constant stomach pain thinking about how much he spends on toys. ha

 

[Irin997]

This is probably how most do it. Effective plan. i think i would just be in constant stomach pain thinking about how much he spends on toys. ha

Maybe that's what you guys need to talk about then? Come to a common financial goal like my DH and I did, whether it be saving, paying off debt, etc.

 

[rockundergirl]

Maybe that's what you guys need to talk about then? Come to a common financial goal like my DH and I did, whether it be saving, paying off debt, etc.

i see it as a good way to be. It just doesn't match us. We talk about stuff a lot because we know its going to be an ongoing disagreement. We are in love, but complete opposites when it comes to money. Combining would make it worse IMO. With my ex we combined everything, it worked for the most part. With my soon to be DH, we just have much more independent lives. We work and travel separately. He sees value in objects, I see value in experiences. I think it would build resentment for each other if we had to run everything past one another.. but Idk,, I will think about it.

 

[Kellydelly]

Well it might be a little different in our situation. We are both working professionals. I have a son from a prior marriage, we do plan on having a child together, but I would never consider being a stay at home mom. We are both very independent people. In addition , because I'm divorced the idea of relying on someone else's income is a bad idea to me. My goal is to have the most comfortable lifestyle I can for my family, while not being dependent on anyone in order to afford that lifestyle. ( clearly this a goal . but not 100% achievable.. you always have some dependence). I like our % based division , but it all goes out the window if its not done fairly.. Thank you for your advice, I will think about it, and what it means.

Your situation is definately different than what I was guessing (young, first time marrieds, no dependents). So any advice I gave you you can just throw out the window . You obviously already have plenty of life experience with sharing income/bills/tax forms with a spouse.

 

[Marionnette]

You sound like you're very independent and self-sufficient. Can I ask you why you're getting married? Please don't take this the wrong way. I just don't understand why a couple that has been living together, and is happy with the arrangement, would see a need to get married. Most companies don't require you to be married just to add a domestic partner to insurance. You don't need to be married to buy a house or create a child.

There must be something about that little piece of paper that makes things different for you and your future husband. What is that "something"?

Because to me, when one or both partners in a relationship is reluctant to combine their finances, it seems to say "I choose you for now. But maybe not forever. I'm not sure that I trust you to make the best decisions for us. I'm going to withhold this little part of me back so that there is something that I can have complete control over. And you can't."

I'll admit that I come at this from a different perspective. I got married almost 27 years ago. I'm from a different generation with a different concept of what marriage is.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

i see it as a good way to be. It just doesn't match us. We talk about stuff a lot because we know its going to be an ongoing disagreement. We are in love, but complete opposites when it comes to money. Combining would make it worse IMO. With my ex we combined everything, it worked for the most part. With my soon to be DH, we just have much more independent lives. We work and travel separately. He sees value in objects, I see value in experiences. I think it would build resentment for each other if we had to run everything past one another.. but Idk,, I will think about it.

There is a poster named RachelEllen (I believe) who has started some really interesting threads about money matters in a situation similar to yours - in a remarriage, with a child of one person involved (and later a shared child), earning different incomes. Things most of us not in those types of situations never have to think about. If you go under her username, then go on statistics, then on Threads Started By RachelEllen, you can find them there.

FWIW, my DH and I do deductions the way your DF does them - initially recommended by our accountant!

 

[kaytieeldr]

What about: you each claim "1" on your 2012 W4, and put the difference between what his employer deducts in 2012 and what was deducted from each 2011 check - in a higher- yield savings plan? Even if he earns 1/100th of a percent interest in the account (money market, CD, treasury bonds, etc. It'll pay better. Than the IRS, I mean.

 

[rockundergirl]

You sound like you're very independent and self-sufficient. Can I ask you why you're getting married? Please don't take this the wrong way. I just don't understand why a couple that has been living together, and is happy with the arrangement, would see a need to get married. Most companies don't require you to be married just to add a domestic partner to insurance. You don't need to be married to buy a house or create a child.

There must be something about that little piece of paper that makes things different for you and your future husband. What is that "something"?

Because to me, when one or both partners in a relationship is reluctant to combine their finances, it seems to say "I choose you for now. But maybe not forever. I'm not sure that I trust you to make the best decisions for us. I'm going to withhold this little part of me back so that there is something that I can have complete control over. And you can't."

I'll admit that I come at this from a different perspective. I got married almost 27 years ago. I'm from a different generation with a different concept of what marriage is.

Well we don't live together yet. I have my own home and so does he. I see your point. Its not the piece of paper, its the label. We want to be husband and wife, not boyfriend and girlfriend. I don't think money has anything to do with that decision. I think that years ago it was very difficult for a women to earn her own money. This an a combination of other reasons caused it to become common place for couples to pool money. I don't think its necessary to do anymore, but it does have charm, and utility if everyone is comfortable with it. ( i.e. one person can take on the burden of earning big incomes and one can focus on the families home life. Instead of balancing both. ) The truth is its easy to get a divorce now, people don't judge you anymore. This means people don't stick it out when maybe they should. In my situation my ex husband decided he "wasn't happy" and left. At the time I made about 16 k a year at my part time job, had a 9 month old, and was forced to sell almost everything I owned. I don't blame him... it was my fault for getting into a situation where I couldn't support myself. I love my boyfriend, I hope to spend the rest of my life with him, but I will remain independent. People leave, people die, you live and learn.

 

[BadgerGirl84]

Figuring out whether you should put a 0, 1, 2 or 3 on your taxes does not seem like it should be your #1 priority.

Rather, based on the language you used to describe your husband's spending (i.e. "wasting money" and your "stomach hurting" when you think about what he spends), you should be focusing on how you can improve your communication on finances with your husband in the broader sense and also how you can create a financial plan with your husband you can stick with.

I sympathize with you. To a lesser degree, my husband and I have similar problems. He's a spender and I'm a saver, to keep it simple. Money is a security blanket to me. I'd rather live a no-frills life and have a ton of money socked away for a rainy day and he'd rather make sure the important stuff is covered (emergency fund, retirement, money to pay our bills, save for goals) then have fun with what's left.

Not sure what the best solution is...marriage counseling, Dave Ramsey, church-based money programs are all ideas that come to mind.

 

[mrspaha]

You sound like you're very independent and self-sufficient. Can I ask you why you're getting married? Please don't take this the wrong way. I just don't understand why a couple that has been living together, and is happy with the arrangement, would see a need to get married. Most companies don't require you to be married just to add a domestic partner to insurance. You don't need to be married to buy a house or create a child.

There must be something about that little piece of paper that makes things different for you and your future husband. What is that "something"?

Because to me, when one or both partners in a relationship is reluctant to combine their finances, it seems to say "I choose you for now. But maybe not forever. I'm not sure that I trust you to make the best decisions for us. I'm going to withhold this little part of me back so that there is something that I can have complete control over. And you can't."

I'll admit that I come at this from a different perspective. I got married almost 27 years ago. I'm from a different generation with a different concept of what marriage is.

I agree!