Need eBay auction advice regarding filing a dispute. UPDATE in post 6!

[Ladyhawke]

I posted this on the Community Board, too. There are so few people online because of the holiday weekend. I need all the advice suggestions I can get.


I won two auctions for sweaters that were supposed to be, according to eBay's category description: "New without tags: A brand-new, unused, and unworn item." Seller described them even as "New Without Tags." What I received were two sweaters far from NEW. They are obviously used, have been washed and worn a few times.

One sweater is dingy from being washed with darks. And the other sweater, I don't even know what discolored it so badly and unevenly! I have a feeling it was from body oils left on the clothes for so long, and had been unwashed. Anyone seeing them in person would know the discoloration did not happen overnight.

Both sweaters shows wear & tear from being worn & washed. One has a frayed tear in the hem. Obviously not a new tear as the yarn has natural fraying from washing a few times.

The Seller must have doctored & photoshopped the eBay pictures, because colors are so much brighter, and the contrast is so much more between the light and the darks. There was just one picture of each item. No closeups to see actual detailing from wear or the dinginess.

I tried to be nice and ask if perhaps he sent the wrong set of sweaters and still has the new ones, or if he had made a listing mistake. Now, he is trying to use that against me, saying his pictures show they are new or I wouldn't have asked.

He had also put in a description towards the bottom that some of the items he sells "are used and in like new condition in addition to New With Tag and New Without Tag condition." At first, I wondered if he was going to use that as his disclaimer, saying he warned people they might instead get a used item. But, I told him eBay has two different categories, Either an item is New, unworn, OR Used, pre-worn. He can't sell something in describing it as "New Without Tags" when it is really a USED item.

Instead, when I told him I could supply pics of having been washed & pre-worn, in his second email back, he is claiming the sweaters were New, unworn, and that _I_ must have washed them and dinged them up. (Unevenly too, I suppose?)

I'm shocked, because he's a longtime Seller with 100% positive feedback, which was why I was nice to him. Although, now I wonder if the feedback isn't from bullying other people and making the same claims and getting away with it all this time. I guess because I was nice to him in my first correspondence and tried to give him a way out, he thinks he can bully me and I'll roll over. I'm not the roll over type.

I am planning on taking pictures to show the sweaters do have wear & tear on them to show eBay and to file a dispute. I have no problems giving him 2 negative feedbacks if this doesn't get resolved. I don't care what feedback he gives me. Although, isn't the rule now that he can't neg me in retaliation?

I'm surprised he's willing to take the hit to his Seller rating. But, maybe bullying and being passive aggressive in the past has worked for him. Maybe he needs the money so badly he needs to lie about the condition of the items to get a few dollars more? I don't care.

But, how do I fight this claim that he says the items are new, and that I must have washed them? Can he actually win the dispute?

Do I need to file a separate dispute with PayPal?

 

[Gantu]

I'm a seller and a buyer who just filled a dispute.

Don't go the ebay center, file in paypal: Item not as described.

Never file both, since the paypal case will file with eBay too.

Its really too bad.

What I did was call paypal and they were very helpful and helped me escalate the case. I'll have to pay the shipping back and that really unfair since I received a totally broken item.


Good luck!

 

[a1tinkfans]

Sellers like these are what makes ebay so awful sometimes. Personally I only pay using paypal with my credit card.
If I ever have an issue I call the card company and tell them the issue. They immediately give me my money back. They then fight the powers that be. I have been successful both times. I did not even have to send back the broken item. It was supposed to be new and was clearly Not new. I told them if he wanted it back, he could refund me $ to paypal to cover it/return, he declined. I also left a negative. Sellers cannot leave a negative. WHat they can do though, is reply to your NEG comment without leaving you a feedback at all. ANd you will NOT be able to reply to his reply since he did not leave you an actual feedback...its how sellers get around and still can be snarky. Be concise and honest and Best of Luck! Oh, just wanted to add that you should ONLY correspond thru ebay messages when dealing with a seller. That is tracked. SO, send a final message saying that the items received were not new as described and were in fact worn and (smelly etc etc) and you expect a full refund or will file a formal complaint, and leave a negative feedback if it is not resolved in 24 hours. Then follow thru. Don't let his 100% make you second guess yourself! You know if something is worn or not. Again, good luck!!

 

[Ladyhawke]

Sellers like these are what makes ebay so awful sometimes. Personally I only pay using paypal with my credit card.
If I ever have an issue I call the card company and tell them the issue. They immediately give me my money back. They then fight the powers that be. I have been successful both times. I did not even have to send back the broken item. It was supposed to be new and was clearly Not new. I told them if he wanted it back, he could refund me $ to paypal to cover it/return, he declined. I also left a negative. Sellers cannot leave a negative. WHat they can do though, is reply to your NEG comment without leaving you a feedback at all. ANd you will NOT be able to reply to his reply since he did not leave you an actual feedback...its how sellers get around and still can be snarky. Be concise and honest and Best of Luck! Oh, just wanted to add that you should ONLY correspond thru ebay messages when dealing with a seller. That is tracked. SO, send a final message saying that the items received were not new as described and were in fact worn and (smelly etc etc) and you expect a full refund or will file a formal complaint, and leave a negative feedback if it is not resolved in 24 hours. Then follow thru. Don't let his 100% make you second guess yourself! You know if something is worn or not. Again, good luck!!

Thanks to both of you! I also paid using PayPal with my credit card. They have been wonderful to me before when I someone stole my credit card and had fraud charges. They took care of the whole thing after the phone call. I guess that's the way to go.

My feedback for 10 years, is also 100% positive. Almost all my positive feedbacks left for others usually state, "Item as described." A Seller can look down the page and see I do reward them for being great Sellers by telling other Buyers they are great to buy from. And Buyers know someone else bought from them & can trust their description.

I hope PayPal/eBay & my nitwit Seller can see that I've never been out to scam Sellers. Why this Seller wouldn't think my word has some integrity when I will leave his negative feedback is beyond me. Luckily, I have 2 lines, since I'll leave 2 feedbacks, to explain to people.

 

[ellone]

File a "Significantly Not as Described" case with paypal. You will most likely be required to send the items back to get your money back. Get delivery confirmation on the package.

 

[Ladyhawke]

UPDATE here from OP:


I got a full refund!!!!! WOOHOO! Doing a happy dance!


Thank YOU to all of you for helping me!

I literally couldn't have done it without all your advice, knowledge & support.

I didn't have to send any pictures, although I described in MICRO detail what the (many) pictures would show. That alone probably scared the eBay Resolution people, that I know that much about the difference between a new and a washed several times piece of clothing. They are probably saying, "This gal needs a life!"

a1tinkfans: I waited on calling my credit card company to dispute the charge. I wanted to see what eBay & the Seller would do. I didn't want to have to have my credit card company put in the extra manpower, just to call them back & say, it's been resolved. BUT, it was really nice knowing that I have that back up plan.

As far as I could tell, I DON'T have to return the sweaters either and pay for that. I did offer to send them back at the SELLER's expense. I think that helped my case. I wasn't trying to keep them for free. Off to the Salvation Army they will go. Someone will end up with nice used sweaters for the new year.

 

[DMRick]

As far as I could tell, I DON'T have to return the sweaters either and pay for that. I did offer to send them back at the SELLER's expense. I think that helped my case. I wasn't trying to keep them for free. Off to the Salvation Army they will go. Someone will end up with nice used sweaters for the new year.

I'm surprised you didn't have to send them back. Usually the refund only comes once you do that..and you are supposed to use tracking. Sometimes it's not worth it. I wonder if they have had problems with this seller in the past.

I have a feeling it was from body oils left on the clothes for so long, and had been unwashed. Anyone seeing them in person would know the discoloration did not happen overnight.
Both sweaters shows wear & tear from being worn & washed. One has a frayed tear in the hem. Obviously not a new tear as the yarn has natural fraying from washing a few times.

I am confused about sending them to the Salvation Army...they sounded pretty bad to me in the above description.
Our Salvation Army likes next to new wearable clothes. They don't give them away, they resell them. Clothes like described above go in the rag pile and they have to pay to get rid of them from their garbage pick up.

 

[Ladyhawke]

I'm surprised you didn't have to send them back. Usually the refund only comes once you do that..and you are supposed to use tracking. Sometimes it's not worth it. I wonder if they have had problems with this seller in the past.



I am confused about sending them to the Salvation Army...they sounded pretty bad to me in the above description.
Our Salvation Army likes next to new wearable clothes. They don't give them away, they resell them. Clothes like described above go in the rag pile and they have to pay to get rid of them from their garbage pick up.

My guess is because I requested that the SELLER pay for shipping, either eBay or the Seller decided it wasn't worth it. Refunding the shipping charges came to $10, which is out of pocket for the Seller. (The refund has already been processed in my PayPal account. ) To send the items back at her expense would have been another $10 for her.



You are right in reminding me that one sweater is too funky, because of the body oil discoloration. So, for the Seller, if (s)he's really honest about not re-listing that sweater, (s)he'd really only break even, paying for return shipping of both sweaters and just listing the one decent sweater, (the dingy one) as used.

You're right, I will only be sending the one dingy sweater to the Salvation Army. Maybe someone is willing to Oxyclean it, and see if that takes off the dinge from being in a dark wash. I am tempted to buy some Oxyclean just as an experiment, to see what Oxyclean does. But, I've never used it, and I'm really not willing to pay for it just for a sweater I am not keeping.

Otherwise, the sweater is in a really good/decent shape for someone into used clothing and can see the sweater in person, and decide on it. It has a pretty pattern. It's wool. It's only when you see the cream areas is it really obvious that it was washed with darks. On the pattern itself, it doesn't show too much. Maybe someone can make felted mittens out of them.

 

[DMRick]

Yes, I understood you requested it, but it's not what Paypal usually does. Sounds like you had a seller willing to just give it up and not fight back. That's good for you.

My guess is because I requested that the SELLER pay for shipping, either eBay or the Seller decided it wasn't worth it. Refunding the shipping charges came to $10, which is out of pocket for the Seller. (The refund has already been processed in my PayPal account. ) To send the items back at her expense would have been another $10 for her.

 

[Swalphin]

I guess he was motivated to settle to not get a negative feedback, doesn't sound like he was the most ethical person out there . I soooo value my ebay rating, I am over the top honest with people. Glad you worked things out, that would have bugged me to no end.

 

[ceecee]

I had a guy say he didn't receive the item. I provided tracking and THEN he said it was not as described (new in package American Girl outfit) EXACTLY as described. So now he gets a refund and doesn't have to return the item either.....not at all right. I need to call Paypal and get this straighted out, the first call said that if it's under a certain $ amount they don't have to return the item to get a refund, I've never heard of that before. He has 0 feedback (should have been blocked from bidding in the first place) and I have all positive over 3000!

 

[ellone]

My guess is because I requested that the SELLER pay for shipping, either eBay or the Seller decided it wasn't worth it. Refunding the shipping charges came to $10, which is out of pocket for the Seller. (The refund has already been processed in my PayPal account. ) To send the items back at her expense would have been another $10 for her.

Ebay may just have paid you out of their pocket (they are doing that sometimes for smaller $ value disputes).
Makes me think this is the case here since you didn't have to send it back.

 

[cm8]

I had a guy say he didn't receive the item. I provided tracking and THEN he said it was not as described (new in package American Girl outfit) EXACTLY as described. So now he gets a refund and doesn't have to return the item either.....not at all right. I need to call Paypal and get this straighted out, the first call said that if it's under a certain $ amount they don't have to return the item to get a refund, I've never heard of that before. He has 0 feedback (should have been blocked from bidding in the first place) and I have all positive over 3000!

That is so sad. So after lying about never receiving it, he was allowed to change his reasoning to not as described, that would have made me very . I hope you were able to take a picture of it and any serial number attached to the box. It is shame what people will do to get something for nothing at the expense of someone else. I hope you get that issue resolved ASAP