need dog advice

[ElizK]

We have 3 dogs: elderly 13 yr old beagle (Dixie), 6 yr old cocker mix (Grace), and 1 yr old mutt (Mandy). We're having a problem with Grace.

She has been Alpha dog since the day we brought her home as an 8 week old puppy. She is usually the sweetest dog, but will remind the other two of their places if she thinks they need reminding. For the most part we let them work things out.

In the last month or two, Grace has become VERY possesive of us (DH, me, DD17, and DD14). If I sit on the floor to do something she will attack either of the other two dogs if they approach me. DH was working in the garden tonight, and the beagle just went to lay down near where he was working. Grace attacked her, wouldn't let go even whe DH picked her up trying to get her off of Dixie. Dixie ended up with bloody scratches down her ear where Grace's teeth scraped her.

I don't know what to do. We absolutely love this dog, is probably one of the sweetest dogs we've ever had. We do NOT want to find her another home, unless there is absolutely no other option.

Any ideas for us to try?

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

I'd take her to the vet, and have them look for some kind of a medical issue.

My dog suddenly became much more "assertive" and it turned out that he had crystals in his urine and the pain was making him irritable.

 

[ElizK]

I guess that would be a good place to start. She's generally a happy dog, always has that tail going. She plays and is eating fine. It's just the possesiveness. She's not acting like anything hurts.

 

[Luvchefmic]

Oh boy this is NOT going to be a quick fix, let me give you a little background here we have 8 dogs..as I was involved with rescue. I have 2 females that challenged each other all the time and being uninformed it has led to 3 fights where blood was drawn. The natural inclination was to keep them seperated but that is the worse thing to do. I have been watching the Dog Whisperer Cesar Millan on the National Geographic Channel for years...are you familiar with him? There are tapes/books available and his website is www.cesarsway.com you need to get some professional help I seriously encourage you to do that your family can get hurt and these animals can elevate the fighting to the point of killing each other. I am not trying to scare you but this is not something that will fix itself Best of luck to you
Ruthie

 

[yoopermom]

I would check on the health of your elderly beagle, as well. We're a multihound household, and the alpha one seems to "sense" when one is ill, and will often turn on them. In the meantime, PLEASE keep at least a short leash on the aggressor whenever she is in reach of the other dogs, so that you can grab it if she acts out. Many dog bites (of humans) occur when the owner grabs for the collar of the aggressive dog.

Terri

 

[ElizK]

Yikes! I am definitely afraid of her hurting the other two, especially the old one. Her health is already a little fragile.

I have heard of Cesar, but we don't have cable. I'll see if I can get some info from his website or from the library. Thank you!

 

[Luvchefmic]

Yikes! I am definitely afraid of her hurting the other two, especially the old one. Her health is already a little fragile.

I have heard of Cesar, but we don't have cable. I'll see if I can get some info from his website or from the library. Thank you!

You are welcome the reason I gave you this answer is because of the foundation/history with this dog that you stated in your OP the dog decided she was the Alpha dog....again while I recommend educating yourself re-Cesar you need to find someone in your area that can assist you..not just a typical dog trainer (sit, stay, etc) but someone that can work on these issues. Informing your Vet is not a bad idea either maybe their office can recommend someone.

Another thought yahoo.com if you can get a free account there are at least 2 Dog Whisperer groups on there...a trainer may be in your area.

 

[ElizK]

You are welcome the reason I gave you this answer is because of the foundation/history with this dog that you stated in your OP the dog decided she was the Alpha dog....again while I recommend educating yourself re-Cesar you need to find someone in your area that can assist you..not just a typical dog trainer (sit, stay, etc) but someone that can work on these issues. Informing your Vet is not a bad idea either maybe their office can recommend someone.

Another thought yahoo.com if you can get a free account there are at least 2 Dog Whisperer groups on there...a trainer may be in your area.

Thank you for this information!

 

[jwhtewolfd]

I work with cats, but the same principle applies - rule out medical causes before assuming the problem is behavioral. Get thee to a vet. Animals don't express pain the same way humans do, so it's hard for us to recognize it.

I've found that owners are REALLY reluctant to admit their pets are in pain.

True story - once had a client come in, cat had some how managed to get a large wound on the top of it's front foot. Clean, treat, bandage, send home on pain meds. Owner calls back in a few days - cat is chewing at wound. We tell her to come in so we can see it. Come to find out, she stopped giving pain meds. Send her home with more pain meds and instruct her to give them. A couple weeks later - owner calls again, foot was getting better, but now cat's chewing at it again.
US - Have you been giving pain meds?
HER - Well I was, but she was getting better, so I stopped.
US - You need to keep giving the pain meds until it's healed, or she'll keep chewing at it.
HER - Well, I don't think she's in pain.
US - (exasperated) Well why do you think she keeps chewing at it?
HER - Well, I think it's uncomfortable for her.
US - Why do you think it would be uncomfortable for her?
we went round and round with her until we finally got her to admit that it HURTS! UG!

Sorry, that was a long, round about way to say not to eliminate the possibility of pain.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Alpha behavior in the dog pack isn't usually aggressive. It doesn't need to be. It is understood. Which is why this strikes me as something more, as in simply obnoxious behavior. (Naturally, ruling out medical causes is a good thing, but I doubt you'll find anything going on here.)

Besides, YOU are actually the alpha so Grace is mistaken thinking that she is.

You need to re-establish yourselves as pack leaders.

How?

Grace must work for everything. No free rides.

Food? First she must do as you say. Affection? Same thing. Do NOT allow her to come up to you and demand affection. Everything has to be on your terms. You get the idea, but it goes for everything, including you telling her where and when she can lay down, etc.

She should also be on a leash for a while so you can stop behaviors *when she's thinking about them*. Use your voice - firmly. "No, Gracie. Leave it. Lie down." She submits to you. Practice it and make it a way of life. Otherwise poor Dixie is going to be tormented in her remaining senior years.

If you want to read more, Brian Kilcommons talks about Doggie Push Ups, as he calls this, in his book Good Owners, Great Dogs. Good luck.

PS also make sure the dog is getting plenty of exercise daily and consult a professional - possibly a veterinary behaviorist - if Grace shows any signs of aggressiveness toward you or your family members during retraining.

 

[Luvchefmic]

Although we all have different points of views here I am glad that the bottom line is we all agree that OP and her family need to seek professional help....doesn't matter how they ended up in this situation ,, just needs to be fixed..hope you will post again with updates

Ruthie

 

[ElizK]

Alpha behavior in the dog pack isn't usually aggressive. It doesn't need to be. It is understood. Which is why this strikes me as something more, as in simply obnoxious behavior. (Naturally, ruling out medical causes is a good thing, but I doubt you'll find anything going on here.)

Besides, YOU are actually the alpha so Grace is mistaken thinking that she is.

You need to re-establish yourselves as pack leaders.

She's not agressive with us, only the other dogs. And she minds. I almost always make her sit/lie down/stay when I feed her. You can tell she's not thrilled with the idea, but she will do it.

After yesterday's incident with the beagle, DH held her down on the ground for a few seconds to remind her of who's boss. She didn't struggle, just layed there and submitted.

I will call the vet for starters. I think she's due for her yearly checkup this month or next anyway.

I do really appreciate everyone's advice, and we will start working toward getting her more agreeable.

 

[Luvchefmic]

Keep the updates coming I'm sure I speak for the other pp we're thinking of you !

 

[EllenFrasier]

I saw something similar on Animal Planet with a family that had like four Pugs. There was one that was always attacking the others. The person on the show said to try to associate positive things happening to all of them at the same time. Like passing out treats to all of them at the same time, petting them all at the same time (more than one person), etc. Her name is
Victoria Stilwell, Dog Training, It's Me Or The Dog : Animal Planet - not sure if she has a book or videos out there that you could get at a bookstore or from the library.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

She's not agressive with us, only the other dogs.

I know, I saw that. I just added it in at the end in case she does become aggressive with you during retraining.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I saw something similar on Animal Planet with a family that had like four Pugs. There was one that was always attacking the others. The person on the show said to try to associate positive things happening to all of them at the same time. Like passing out treats to all of them at the same time, petting them all at the same time (more than one person), etc. Her name is
Victoria Stilwell, Dog Training, It's Me Or The Dog : Animal Planet - not sure if she has a book or videos out there that you could get at a bookstore or from the library.

This is asking for trouble. Unless you have LOTS of dog training experience and know EXACTLY what you're doing. But even then, bringing food into the mix in a situation like this is not a good idea, IMO. If it's happening without food, then adding food will only make heighten the stakes for the dog, ie what it's willing to fight for.

 

[castmemberb4]

I think since you've had Grace for 6 years and this problem has just started that it's more than likely medical related and not behavorial. Otherwise she would have been argessive from the beginning. Being an alpha dog is not considered agressive that's normal behavior. I agree with the poster who says take both her and Dixie to the vet. Than your vet can help you address this issue.
Good luck and keep us updated.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

I agree with Pea n Me & I say leash her and retrain her that way. Don't allow her free roam anymore (for the most part). If you guys are home, she is on a leash. You will be able to clearly see who is doing what. You might find you have an instigator on your hands from one of the other dogs.

When you go to sit down on the ground or do any other trigger behavior have someone else take the leash to correct her BEFORE she becomes aggressive. In other words the person sitting on the ground (target)should not have the leash.

As Pea n Me stated she might turn on the leash holder. Now she might not but as you stated becoming possessive can really trigger a reaction because you are challenging her place in the pack.

I am a fan of the "set up". That way you have the people there to help with the training and you are proactive instead of reactive.

Now if you are really unsure of how to read your dogs or have not done any behavioral training with them, see a professsional.

 

[walden]

Alpha behavior in the dog pack isn't usually aggressive. It doesn't need to be. It is understood. Which is why this strikes me as something more, as in simply obnoxious behavior. (Naturally, ruling out medical causes is a good thing, but I doubt you'll find anything going on here.)

Besides, YOU are actually the alpha so Grace is mistaken thinking that she is.

You need to re-establish yourselves as pack leaders.

How?

Grace must work for everything. No free rides.

Food? First she must do as you say. Affection? Same thing. Do NOT allow her to come up to you and demand affection. Everything has to be on your terms. You get the idea, but it goes for everything, including you telling her where and when she can lay down, etc.

She should also be on a leash for a while so you can stop behaviors *when she's thinking about them*. Use your voice - firmly. "No, Gracie. Leave it. Lie down." She submits to you. Practice it and make it a way of life. Otherwise poor Dixie is going to be tormented in her remaining senior years.

If you want to read more, Brian Kilcommons talks about Doggie Push Ups, as he calls this, in his book Good Owners, Great Dogs. Good luck.

PS also make sure the dog is getting plenty of exercise daily and consult a professional - possibly a veterinary behaviorist - if Grace shows any signs of aggressiveness toward you or your family members during retraining.

I would like to emphasize -- do not allow Gracie to be possessive of you. She may approach on your terms, only. The aggression toward the other dogs could escalate to include your family members easily.

I'm glad you are getting the vet check, and agree that you should have both Dixie and Gracie looked over to rule out health problems. I recommend that you ask for referrals to a reputable local behavioralist/trainer -- someone who can observe the interactions in your own home and give you hands on advice. I much prefer positive reward-based to aversion techniques myself, but think Brian Kilcommons is wonderful and that Victoria Stillwell represents a fairly level headed combination of the two.

Please do not rely on TV or books with something this potentially serious. One last caution -- the "Alpha Roll" you describe your DH using on Gracie is no longer taught by the Monks of New Skete as it is now considered dangerous, counter-productive and out-dated. I know Cesar Millan used it during a couple of older programs, but he cautions strongly against it's use by amateurs and has recently said that he is rethinking recommending it at all.

Please keep us posted. It is clear that you love Gracie and want the best for her.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Please do not rely on TV or books with something this potentially serious. One last caution -- the "Alpha Roll" you describe your DH using on Gracie is no longer taught by the Monks of New Skete as it is now considered dangerous, counter-productive and out-dated. I know Cesar Millan used it during a couple of older programs, but he cautions strongly against it's use by amateurs and has recently said that he is rethinking recommending it at all.

That's good. Even the Monks, when they did recommend it, said it should only be done in the rarest of circumstances and only with extreme caution. I was actually surprised to see Cesar Milan doing it on TV with some frequency. I wonder what types of things happened to bring about these changes (we can imagine ).