NBC should be ashamed

[LoraJ]

Originally posted by TnKrBeLlA012
They also need to go to Iraq and see first hand whats going on. I wonder how many would change their opinions then. I am also amazed at some of the responses on this post. I will not feel sorry for any man in Fallujah. They are to be considered armed and dangerous. If they meant no harm ,they wouldn't be there. Thankfully some of you people are not part of our military!!!!!!!!

Since you are such a big believer in this war, why are you not there fighting?

 

[mickyzzzzz05]

I did not take the time to read the entire thread so forgive me if this point has already been raised.
If the Marine had hesitated and not fired and if the wounded man was armed and managed to harm or kill several of our soldiers then I believe there would be people saying that he hadn't done his duty in protecting himself and his buddies. He had a split second to make a decision and this decision follows days of fighting - instances of ****ytrapped bodies and insurgents "playing" dead only to attack our soldiers.

I know there is still an investigation to take place but with what I have seen on tv I would tend to believe that the Marine acted correctly for the preservation of his own life and that of his fellow soldiers.

 

[Teejay32]

Originally posted by mrsltg
He, too, cannot just kill people who may or may not be a threat to him. The thing they all have in common is the experience to say, "Something is not right here."

I agree - if the situation was as you described, I'd be in your corner. Something is definitely not right, but is the problem with the Marine, or with the version of events as reported? Valid question I think. I'm not seeing where this was a group of POWs, who would have been "neutralized", or how any soldier was out killing people indiscriminately, and I haven't seen the tape but you've said no one sees the actual killing on tape anyway. This is not a police force or a peacekeeping operation - your DH and your father would know that.

Best thing to do is keep a healthy level of skepticism toward reporting of any kind, until all the facts are in.

 

[beattyfamily]

Originally posted by mickyzzzzz05
If the Marine had hesitated and not fired and if the wounded man was armed and managed to harm or kill several of our soldiers then I believe there would be people saying that he hadn't done his duty in protecting himself and his buddies. He had a split second to make a decision and this decision follows days of fighting - instances of ****ytrapped bodies and insurgents "playing" dead only to attack our soldiers.

I know there is still an investigation to take place but with what I have seen on tv I would tend to believe that the Marine acted correctly for the preservation of his own life and that of his fellow soldiers.

ITA.

This soldier was wounded the day before with fellow soldiers killed, he 'thinks' the guy is 'playing dead' and if that is the case, he could have a gun hidden, could have a granade hidden, could have a bomb strapped to himself. I'm willing and glad to give him the benefit of the doubt and let the investigation take place before I judge him. Innocent till proven guilty. IMHO.

I nor anyone here that I know of has said there's no need for an investigation; some of us just want to wait to judge and others, unfortuately don't.

 

[raidermatt]

Ultimately, the question isn't whether or not the man was armed, its whether or not it was reasonable for the marine to feel he needed to act in self-defense.

That's why its unfortunate that the tape is being viewed by many out of context. It may very well be that the marine acted improperly, but its also at least as likely that he did not.

Its fine to say "if he's guilty he should be punished", but the very fact that one feels more of a need to say that than "if he's innocent he should not be punished", shows a certain bias based on incomplete information.

That is all.

You may now return to your regularly scheduled closed mindedness and hyperbole.

 

[auntpolly]

Originally posted by raidermatt


Its fine to say "if he's guilty he should be punished", but the very fact that one feels more of a need to say that than "if he's innocent he should not be punished", shows a certain bias based on incomplete information.

.

It shows nothing of the kind. One could just as easily say that blasting NBC shows a certain bias against showing the world what's going on over there. But I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that I'm glad that people are looking into it.

And by the way, I'm still waiting for someone to show where mrsltg "basically accused him of being a war criminal". I saw where she said that she's not sure because all she knows is what she saw on tv. I saw her say 'if". And I saw her talk about what she thought about the action itself "if" it turns out that he is guilty. And I saw her say it needed to be looked into.

 

[Serena]

I think the media needs to shut up. The soldiers have enough problems without pieces of video showing up on the news for the sole purpose of sensationalism and ratings.

If he acted improperly, he will be dealt with. We surely don't need to give the enemy another reason to hate.

 

[BuckNaked]

And by the way, I'm still waiting for someone to show where mrsltg "basically accused him of being a war criminal".

I am sure that they are terrified, sleep deprived, and pumped on continuous adreniline. None of that justifies shooting an unarmed man. You can't do that, no matter what. The man was lying on the ground, injured. Yes, I expect that medical help would be called for him. I don't care if our troops would not be shown the same respect and dignity, we are Americans and we do not behave this way. Clearly the Marines agree or they wouldn't be investigating. It is a sad day when people can defend barbary simply because it happens under an American flag.

 

[auntpolly]

Nice try --- but <b>NO</b>

She's talking about "if". She's talking about the kind of person that would do something like that.

Show me where she said he was guilty!

 

[auntpolly]

sorry double post

 

[auntpolly]

I'm really messing up! I just wanted to correct a spelling error on the first post I made!

Where it says "she" - read "show"! Sorry!

 

[BuckNaked]

Originally posted by auntpolly
Nice try --- but <b>NO</b>

She's talking about "if". She's talking about the kind of person that would do something like that.

Show me where she said he was guilty!

Right here:

None of that justifies shooting an unarmed man. You can't do that, no matter what.

No if, ands or buts in that statement.

 

[auntpolly]

Originally posted by BuckNaked
Right here:



No if, ands or buts in that statement.

OK once again - she is talking about the act - not the man. You can't cut and paste only the parts that you like to try to prove your point. Some people would call that slander! Reading everything that she has said, she means that "if" it turns out to be true, he is guilty. Now, if you disagree with that - that's another matter. But I'd still like to see where she has said that that she's sure that this man is guilty of this crime.

 

[raidermatt]

It shows nothing of the kind.

Sadly, it does. (and yes, this applies to someone who only looks at the other side as well.)

Show me where she said he was guilty!

Technically she doesn't, but she is using the wrong standard to judge guilt.

None of that justifies shooting an unarmed man. You can't do that, no matter what.

Again, whether he was actually armed or not has very little to do with it. The issue is that of reasonable perceived threat.

If its only an issue of whether or not the man was armed, the investigation should have taken all of 5 minutes.

So based on her statements, she would judge the marine guilty, because if the insurgent really was armed, we probably wouldn't even be having this discussion.

Practically speaking she has judged the marine guilty, and at the very least is making false statements about what constitutes his guilt.

 

[TnKrBeLlA012]

Originally posted by LoraJ
Since you are such a big believer in this war, why are you not there fighting?

Did I say I am a big believer in the war? I will say that I support our troops that are fighting over there! I guess I'm seeing things alot different! I'm sure there is so much more that dosen't get reported. We take one incident and rip it apart. What else goes on that we don't know about? I will never judge till I am enlisted and serving in Iraq. Until then I commend our military for what they are doing!

 

[auntpolly]

Originally posted by raidermatt
)




Technically she doesn't, but she is using the wrong standard to judge guilt.

First, thank you for answering me - because the people who made the accusations are very quiet right now and I would have liked to hear from them. I disagree with you anyway, though, because this is a debate and IMO she's just trying to counter the side that wants to give carte blanche to the military.

 

[BuckNaked]

Originally posted by auntpolly
First, thank you for answering me - because the people who made the accusations are very quiet right now and I would have liked to hear from them. I disagree with you anyway, though, because this is a debate and IMO she's just trying to counter the side that wants to give carte blanche to the military.

Please show me where anyone here has said that the military should be given carte blanche.

Thanks.

 

[auntpolly]

Originally posted by BuckNaked
Please show me where anyone here has said that the military should be given carte blanche.

Thanks.

LOL - you are too much. Why should I when you've never answered my question?

 

[beattyfamily]

Originally posted by auntpolly
LOL - you are too much. Why should I when you've never answered my question?

What a cop out!

 

[auntpolly]

no cop out - I just needed time to collect a few quotes - which doesn't change the fact that my question was never answered. But I quess you only consider it a "cop out" when you disagree with someone - typical.

From just the first few pages of this thread:

Shoot first, ask questions later.


I agree. Kick the reporters out!!! How dare they put that video out and have people start to second guess how soldiers "work"!!!

all bets are off. It's kill or be killed over there.