NBA at Walt Disney World

[rteetz]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1271653476762882048

 

[Mit88]

Maybe Kyrie thought by bubble, they meant they were playing in a cave with no cell service, no WiFi, the media couldn’t get in and they were just playing basketball in front of each other while fans had to wait for last nights stats from the scroll that the cave carrier pigeon delivered to everyone’s homes.

 

[TomServo27]

Whats the issue here? If they dont want to work, dont get paid. Potentially risk your contract. I have no ill will for those who are not comfortable working in this enviornment.

Kyrie will still get paid because he is injured. That’s why he is a bad messenger for this.

 

[mmackeymouse]

Not to be nasty, but what's the point of having a players association, if players can hijack a negotiation? The whole point of a PA is to have a centralized group to be the players' collective voice. If the players, or at least some players, are not trusting the PA to do the right thing for them, then what's the point?

On top of that, Kyrie Irving is VP of the NBPA...so I have to imagine he has already had his say during the negotiations. No matter what he personally believes, at some point the PA came to an agreement that this was the way to go forward. He had two options: convince the players association of his point of view OR fall in line and go with the plan of the group. He didn't convince them....okay, well, that's the show.

Disney essentially put a lot on the line here. They put re-opening on hold, or at least delayed the sequence of events, so that they could get all their ducks in a row to make this NBA thing happen. Somewhere between 1-3 resorts, depending on the source, are being shut down. Guests will be getting displaced. If I were Disney, I wouldn't be very happy if they back out now.

 

[Marthasor]

They do want to work. It’s only “several” players that don’t want to play. Not nearly enough to shut it all down. If Kyrie wants to quit and retire, then that’s on him. But he’s also not an active player going into this proposed play in and playoff

Gonna need a source for that claim.

 

[tjkraz]

Disney/ABC/ESPN has pretty deep ties with the NBA, so I don’t think there will be any long-lasting hard feelings if this falls through. Certainly people who worked on it will be frustrated, but everyone will soldier on.

That said, I don’t think it will fall through. Having a social conscience is admirable. I suspect the NBA will approach players with a variety of opportunities to share their voices as play resumes. In the end, I think players will be forced to see that they have far more to lose by walking away.

If this plan falls apart, the Collective Bargaining Agreement will get torn up. Owners will claim force majeure to void the deal. They cannot continue to operate under a framework that assumed 82 game schedules and packed arenas. Then you’re faced with the challenge of negotiating a new CBA with the pandemic timeline unknown. Revenue will be dramatically lower, impacting the players as well.

If money = power, players can do a lot more good today and in years to come if they don’t force the league into turmoil.

 

[Marthasor]

Not to be nasty, but what's the point of having a players association, if players can hijack a negotiation? The whole point of a PA is to have a centralized group to be the players' collective voice. If the players, or at least some players, are not trusting the PA to do the right thing for them, then what's the point?

On top of that, Kyrie Irving is VP of the NBPA...so I have to imagine he has already had his say during the negotiations. No matter what he personally believes, at some point the PA came to an agreement that this was the way to go forward. He had two options: convince the players association of his point of view OR fall in line and go with the plan of the group. He didn't convince them....okay, well, that's the show.

Disney essentially put a lot on the line here. They put re-opening on hold, or at least delayed the sequence of events, so that they could get all their ducks in a row to make this NBA thing happen. Somewhere between 1-3 resorts, depending on the source, are being shut down. Guests will be getting displaced. If I were Disney, I wouldn't be very happy if they back out now.

The NBPA never approved the deal. They approved further negotiations. Apparently they are now negotiating. https://nbpa.com/news/nbpa-statement-on-return-to-play-scenario

 

[tjkraz]

Gonna need a source for that claim.

*Anecdotally*, there doesn’t seem to be an overwhelming amount of support. Yesterday’s call was rumored to have up to 200 participants. In reality only about 80 turned-up, including an unspecified number of WNBA players.

Only 4 all star caliber players were mentioned by name (Irving, Chris Paul, Kevin Durant and Donovan Mitchell), plus Dwight Howard and Carmelo Anthony.

LeBron James, the most influential player in the league, supports playing. And it’s a given that Rich Paul Is with James. Paul represents multiple all-star players.

We’ll see what today holds; whether support seems to grow or wane. The financial fallout from canceling the season is tremendous.

The NBPA never approved the deal. They approved further negotiations. Apparently they are now negotiating. https://nbpa.com/news/nbpa-statement-on-return-to-play-scenario

Per the reporting, the thrust of Friday’s call was social justice issues. There wasn’t much time spent addressing specific living and play conditions. If players had philosophical objections to any form of return-to-play, they could have been voiced before June 5.

 

[Marthasor]

*Anecdotally*, there doesn’t seem to be an overwhelming amount of support. Yesterday’s call was rumored to have up to 200 participants. In reality only about 80 turned-up, including an unspecified number of WNBA players.

Only 4 all star caliber players were mentioned by name (Irving, Chris Paul, Kevin Durant and Donovan Mitchell), plus Dwight Howard and Carmelo Anthony.

LeBron James, the most influential player in the league, supports playing. And it’s a given that Rich Paul Is with James. Paul represents multiple all-star players.

We’ll see what today holds; whether support seems to grow or wane. The financial fallout from canceling the season is tremendous.



Per the reporting, the thrust of Friday’s call was social justice issues. There wasn’t much time spent addressing specific living and play conditions. If players had philosophical objections to any form of return-to-play, they could have been voiced before June 5.

Dang - I don't think Howard and Anthony would like to hear they aren't All Star caliber, LOL!

I don't know - the NBPA agreed to further negotiate. They never agreed to anything else. I think this is all just part of the negotiations and they obviously have some leverage here. If part of the negotiations means the NBA has to come up with some type of plan to address the players concerns regarding social justice, I, personally think that would be great. Given the NBA's track record in that area, I would think they would have a more than willing partner. NBA Cares could do a lot and they obviously have a huge platform through the broadcasting of the games. Yes, huge fallout if they cancel the season. I predict something will be worked out and if some players want to sit out, I think they should be allowed to. Everyone should be able to follow their conscience, IMHO. I'm really not one to talk as I am not in their position, but I tend to agree with Lebron that they can both play basketball and have a voice for social justice. In fact, I think it could be amplified if they resume the season. I do think it is something that needed to be discussed in the negotiations, so hopefully they can work something out.

 

[Krandor]

i still think they are going to play. Too much money not to but just like MLB this is just not a good look for all this negotiaion to be done publically. Should have done it behind the scenes and get to playing.

Though I expect the sticking point in NBA players want first dibs at park reservations.

 

[Mit88]

They’re 100% going to play. They have unlimited access to the media that can get their message across. The issues causing them not to want to go back have been going on for 100s of years, yet they continued to play the games. Using the pandemic as a reason to not play is defeated by the purpose of the bubble. The bubble that has been widely talked about as being in use since early April. These plans didnt just pop up out of nowhere. The perimeters have been laid for a long time. Spike Lee didnt delay the release of “Da 5 Bloods” out of fear that it would cause a distraction. People are fully capable of multi-tasking, enjoying basketball, talking about basketball, while also fighting against racial injustices. And if they’re not, then how committed were they really before basketball started back up?

 

[mgardner]

i still think they are going to play. Too much money not to but just like MLB this is just not a good look for all this negotiaion to be done publically. Should have done it behind the scenes and get to playing.

Though I expect the sticking point in NBA players want first dibs at park reservations.

Would that be fair though? I read somewhere that they're only playing and can't go to the parks. Of course, you never know what is true. I just can't see that being fair for everyone who has had to cancel or modify multiple times, and then to top it off, we all still have to get reservations to even get in. If they just get to go whenever they want, I think there would be a lot of unhappy people. I don't think they should get special treatment especially when not everyone is guaranteed a spot. Just my opinion though. We go August 1 so I wouldn't want a player taking a spot inside a park from me lol

 

[TomServo27]

i still think they are going to play. Too much money not to but just like MLB this is just not a good look for all this negotiaion to be done publically. Should have done it behind the scenes and get to playing.

Though I expect the sticking point in NBA players want first dibs at park reservations.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1269018307425980416

 

[rteetz]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1271863583295655943

 

[cel_disney]

Would that be fair though? I read somewhere that they're only playing and can't go to the parks. Of course, you never know what is true. I just can't see that being fair for everyone who has had to cancel or modify multiple times, and then to top it off, we all still have to get reservations to even get in. If they just get to go whenever they want, I think there would be a lot of unhappy people. I don't think they should get special treatment especially when not everyone is guaranteed a spot. Just my opinion though. We go August 1 so I wouldn't want a player taking a spot inside a park from me lol

First - these guys probably need a lot of training time. They will need to work out some amount every day. It’s a job.
Second - at least every other day they are going to have to play a game right? So a longer day?

I don’t see Park visits ever fitting into their bubble activity during the season. They will hang at the Bubble resort pool, play golf, enjoy Resort dining - but they are not heading to the parks. And I can’t imagine that actually being a bargaining concern for them?

I’m sure that there will be some amazing entertainment CMs in the bubble jist like when there is a hurricane that can do anything - especially photo ops with the NBA - and entertain their families when we get to that point.

I don’t object to a call with players to discuss social justice reform - but I would have thought most would be aligned with LeBron. The level of access to media and the ability to influence would be much greater while they were at work.

 

[Anthony Vito]

Sorry if I've missed it, but is there a chance if things improve they might allow fans for the conference finals? Or is the agreement written in a way that leaves no room to change policy? I know allowing fans in breaks the bubble, but if it was limited enough I see no reason the players/staff couldn't still be kept completely out of guest areas. No fans in the first 15 rows or so with social distancing in the rest of the seats. 30% capacity maybe. Bus the players in to where they only ever touch the locker rooms and court. Who am I kidding, even if they did that tickets would be insane.
. . .

There are reports that the Players Association believes there will be no fans in attendance for the entire 2020-21 season as well.

Disney/ABC/ESPN has pretty deep ties with the NBA, so I don’t think there will be any long-lasting hard feelings if this falls through. Certainly people who worked on it will be frustrated, but everyone will soldier on.

That said, I don’t think it will fall through. Having a social conscience is admirable. I suspect the NBA will approach players with a variety of opportunities to share their voices as play resumes. In the end, I think players will be forced to see that they have far more to lose by walking away.

If this plan falls apart, the Collective Bargaining Agreement will get torn up. Owners will claim force majeure to void the deal. They cannot continue to operate under a framework that assumed 82 game schedules and packed arenas. Then you’re faced with the challenge of negotiating a new CBA with the pandemic timeline unknown. Revenue will be dramatically lower, impacting the players as well.

If money = power, players can do a lot more good today and in years to come if they don’t force the league into turmoil.

Add to this that the TV deals will likely be renegotiated as well. Given how much as changed since the deal was last extended as far as people cutting the cord, etc., the networks might not want to be paying nearly as much through 2025 (current deal goes through 2024-25) given this trend.

 

[Anthony Vito]

A big issue for me (other than Kyrie being the leader of this) is that there are varied and, in my opinion, very conflicting reasons for the pushback. I've tried to read what I can find on this, but it's really not clear if there's a MAIN reason for those who don't want go back. The statements attributed to Kryie don't help either because they either don't make sense (talking about only 20 guys in the league really get paid - he's 18th highest by the way - given the salaries of the top 40, 80, and averages, etc., this is just a bad message; it also makes it unclear if he now has an overall issue with CBA in general, player salaries, I mean, is he just anti-league/anti-ownership and leading a movement for that reason?).

I understand 2 of the 3 main issues players have, but they would all appear to be issues that would be mutually exclusive to those who have them and divide them into one of those 3 camps, not just a list for some players to have all of them:

I understand those who are concerned about wanting to go back to play given the current protests and civil rights movement, the optics involved, and the debate as to what's best for that. There's obviously quite a bit out there about this, and while I think giving the players a platform to speak on the issues since this will draw a lot of attention, I certainly cannot criticize those who believe not going back to just playing games hurts the movement.

Then there's a group apparently who are worried about starting back up right now as far as safety and health during the ongoing pandemic and whether it's safe and wise to do so. These are CERTAINLY legitimate concerns, and, especially given some of the pushback (and it's reasonable to question the logic) of the Disney employees that they will be around are not being tested or required to stay in the "bubble." They have the right to question the safety of going back to work, in a "job" that requires being exposed to a lot of other co-workers' bodily fluids. Being forced to return to work right now, either by employers or so someone can put food on the table and keep paying their bills, is a major issue. These players are in a financial position that they don't NEED to go back to work, so if they don't feel safe in doing so, they are right to at least be asking the questions related to that.

Then there are apparently those in this group who are on the other end of the spectrum and have a problem with the "restrictions" of being in the "bubble" and want more freedoms. While I can have some empathy for having to live in a hotel room for 5 weeks to 3 1/2 months, I don't have that much actual sympathy - that is what's necessary to make this happen in the safest way possible (see those concerned about safety) and this sentiment is selfish and does not show concern for everyone else involved.

The last group that kind of doesn't fall into any of these that I found intriguing, are those who are about to become free agents who are worried about injuries under the circumstances - there is greater injury risk going from months off to a short training period then into an intense playoff (or near-playoff) situation. Those players are looking to be insured against injury and its impact on their free agency. Certainly interesting and reasonable, but probably the most addressable of the concerns and one that could actually overlap with some of the others.

The problem with this in general is that it's not clear what kind of split there is between the players and to what degree they fall into each camp. There's just a lot to unwrap here and the "leader" of this movement just seems to be pushing back in general and saying there's opposition, but it's not clear what that opposition to going back to play under the circumstances really entails.

 

[emilymad]

I haven't read this whole thread but I have followed the story on ESPN. Is Disney still holding to the idea of using three resorts? I know it is mostly rumors at this point but trying to decide on our July vacation.

 

[Krandor]

I haven't read this whole thread but I have followed the story on ESPN. Is Disney still holding to the idea of using three resorts? I know it is mostly rumors at this point but trying to decide on our July vacation.

We don't know.

 

[tjkraz]

I haven't read this whole thread but I have followed the story on ESPN. Is Disney still holding to the idea of using three resorts? I know it is mostly rumors at this point but trying to decide on our July vacation.

Nothing new on that for a few days. Probably taking a back seat to bigger issues at this stage.

Regardless, players will be isolated from everyday guests. The number of hotels that Disney will be operating for paying guests appears to be very small into the forseeable future. Through the first half of July, they’re moving everyone in to DVC villas—not even Deluxe hotels will be utilized. That may expand in late-July and into august, but not even Disney knows how many people are willing to pay thousands of dollars for a WDW vacation under current conditions.

For a July trip, figure none of the value or moderate resorts will be open. If you’re staying at a DVC, you should be fine. If you’re booked at a Deluxe hotel, you may be OK or asked to move if that hotel won’t be operating. If youre booked at a Value or Moderate, you’ll be moved to a deluxe or DVC.