Nasty School Letter -- Other Way

[BBGirl]

Ommission does not teach tolerance.

And I'm not meaning this negatively--but can you think of ONE holiday that won't be problematic to at least ONE person.

By ommitting practices b/c of offense--we are not teaching tolerance. We are teaching "My way or the highway". By cancelling the activity--they caved to students who would be missing school. And then offered a substitute day.

But substituting the day does not change why they are having the day. They modified and moved it--but they are still doing it. This is not showing any bit of tolerance at all.

This isn't about rights at all--this isn't about being unified. This is about--let's not offend someone "so we don't get sued."

No but when dealing with school age childern ommitting the holiday is the only option we have. Maybe tolance was the wrong word and respect would be better. The reason they would be sued is because they are/have violated someones rights. I wonder how the little boy or girl who can't do halloween feels. We don't substitute here, we just do it at least not in school. They talk about fall and harvests and other thing relating the season as they do with other seasons. It's easier for adults to be present and not pretisapate(sp) then childern therefore I feel we need to be more aware of childerns rights then adults rights esp. when it comes to religion. No I can't think of one Holiday that someone somewhere would not have a problem with but I also don't believe school is the place for holidays to be celebrated. I believe holidays are celebrated with family and friends at home. Days that I feel are holidays you may not feel are. I respect your right to celebrate your holidays your way while I celebrate mine my way. You can't do that in a PUBLIC school not with the diversity of this country, where there can be a holiday everyday for some reason somewhere in the world. Whose holidays do we say are important enough to celebrate. I should have quoted the person in the first post who said if 30 kids want to have a halloween party and only one doesn't then they should have the party. I would not want my child to be the one that has to leave therefore I do not feel any other child should have to leave.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I think it is important to share culture in school---as a part of Social studies.

Holidays--are a part of Social Studies.

This is another reason I homeschool. The fact that schools are removing so much. It is so silly.

And i'm not talking about Christmas being left in lieu of winter holidays. Just basic stuff. Such as a traditional obervance in America. It was never required when I was growing up--it was always optional. You didn't have to dress up if you didn't want to. Now I don't remember all to well what actual activities we did..it has been a while.

I agree it should not be required and perhaps your child could have an alternate activity. But omitting it...I think it teaches that one's own individual rights are more important than someone elses. JMHO.

I think there is more to education than just strict academics--and that is where field trips and celebrations/observances comes into play. And academic lessons can be learned from those type of activities.

 

[Hannahsmom]

I've tried so hard to not jump into this one.........................I've read the entire thread over the course of the last week, and a few points keep coming to the surface for me.

I should have quoted the person in the first post who said if 30 kids want to have a halloween party and only one doesn't then they should have the party. I would not want my child to be the one that has to leave therefore I do not feel any other child should have to leave.

BBGirl......If you do not believe in celebrating Halloween, and you are teaching your children not to take part in any/all celebrations regarding this holiday, they should not be upset then that you would expect them to leave. I worked with a woman who was a Jehovah Witness, and I asked her if she felt she was missing out when not participating, especially as a child. She said that it was simply their way of life, no more and no less.

I am thankful that our school district does not have any rules regarding classroom Holiday celebrations. We had a wonderful party in Hannah's kindergarten classroom last week. Every child was there dressed in costume. We paraded through the school, made some caramel apples, ate some treats (healthy and not-so-healthy), played some games and did the monster mash. Then Monday night my daughter dressed in her Jasmine costume and went throughout our neighborhood to Trick or Treat. There is so much in the world that is "wrong", why do some people need to find a way to ruin something as innocent as that. I think my God was smiling down on us as we spent an evening together as a family, delighting in the joyful laughter of the children in the neighborhood and enjoying the sense of community we felt as we passed neighbors out doing the same thing.

If you don't celebrate, that's fine, but don't ruin it for others.

 

[MrsPete]

. Please excuse my sons David and George from school on October 31. It so happens that they will be uncomfortable fitting in with the Halloween celebration to be held at school that day.[/url]

1. It's sad that today schools are caught in the middle when it comes to holidays. They're damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Half the parents say that school is for learning, not playing, and they'd rather keep their children home if they're not doing something constructive that day. The other half say that fun is important too, and classroom parties make memories with school friends.

The school can't get it right, regardless of what they do. Personally, I'm in favor of elementary kids having a short party involving some small snacks and a simple seasonal craft -- not a big-deal party, but also not ignoring the holiday.

2. What on earth would make CHILDREN uncomfortable about a Halloween party? I'm sure they don't fear cupcakes.

 

[MrsPete]

Where my child would go to school (in Massachusetts where the OP Lives) they have gym once a week for 1 hour taught by a man who is no less then 300 pounds. I have watched him heave like he is going to have a heart attack just standing around doing nothing. In this instance our national PE program has failed all 500 elementary students there.

Yeah, we have one of those too! Well, he's not 300 pounds, but the point is still valid. The real kicker: He put up a sign in the teachers' lounge offering his services as a personal trainer!

 

[MrsPete]

Since when did Halloween become a Christian holiday??? Ask any elementary school kid the meaning of Halloween and s/he will tell you "dress up in a silly or scary costume and walk around the neighborhood getting candy." So what if a gazillion years ago it had Catholic meaning. When was the last time that anyone took any of that seriously? All this political correctness put on little kids by adults only does one thing....ruin some fun for them. Can't we simply let kids be kids?

I'm with you on this one. Halloween is about dressing up and candy.

As for it being a "Christian holiday", I don't think that's true at all, but neither do I think it's a sin to dress up as a fairy or a scarecrow. It's a secular holiday, no different from Independence Day or Mother's Day. Many churches in our area throw Fall Festivals or Halloween parties as an alternative to Trick-or-Treating. However, that's done because traditional Trick-or-Treating has become so dangerous these days.

 

[MrsPete]

I agree that there needs to be more emphasis on physical fitness. I don't know what the "national PE program" is, but it can't be particularly strict. Here the children get about 40 minutes of PE every other day, and it's not all active time. Our school discourages outside/active recess all winter long. They really do need more. (Though parents also need to get the kids moving more when at home.)

Beth

I agree, and I think kids would do better in the classroom if they'd had ample time to run off some energy and get their blood pumping.

 

[MrsPete]

Ommission does not teach tolerance.

I have to agree. Omission teaches . . . well, nothing.

 

[MrsPete]

Our school system has Harvest parties and Winter parties because their is apparently alot of religious and cultural diversity in our area.

I think this is kind of useless. In the KIDS' MINDS (and probably the teachers' and parents' too), it's a Halloween party and a Christmas party. Even if the teachers have them make pumpkin decorations, I'd be willing to be the majority of the kids draw jack-o-lantern faces on their pumpkins. I assume parents send in the snacks for the party. I'm willing to bet they get ghost-shaped cookies and Christmas tree-decorated cupcakes.

I think a good argument can be made that Christmas is essentially no longer a religious holiday in America. It's about Christmas trees, Rudolph, and -- the biggie -- gifts. It's a secular holiday to the great majority of today's generation.

 

[MiknMinMouse]

And I despise seaweed. (and tofu)
Does that make me a terrible parent?

Now that makes you a wonderful parent TOFU ~ yuk!!. Actually, I was glad that our school was closed on Halloween this year. My children don't particpate in Halloween either.

I remember during my DD's first two years of school come December so much time was spent discussing all of the different celebrations they didn't learn much of anything else. I don't send my children to school to learn about holidays, I send them to learn to read, write, spell, for PE, for art for music, etc. I don't send them to school to constantly celebrate every little holiday that comes around. I love parties, I love fun, I like school to be fun, but you don't have to have holiday parties to make school fun. Supposedly our school district has a policy in force that prohibits any type of holiday party. I'm all for it. Why should Jewish children have to celebrate or participate in Christmas activities or Christian children have to particpate or celebrate Hannaka (sorry bout the spelling). Add to that children of other faiths who don't particpate in those holidays or children from homes where parents are not Christian. I'm the last person in the world to be PC, but when it comes to endless parties at school for a zillion different holiday's count me out. Save it for an end of the year bash Just my humble opinion.

 

[MrsPete]

Sadly, this day seems to be growing each year in the UK. Sadly, as its clearly just a money making scheme with stores and card shops pushing it to grab some extra cash off people before Christmas.

Scoff if you like, but this is the root of many holidays! Do you know who invented Mother's Day? It was Hallmark. Seriously, that wasn't a joke.

I'll throw out something else that bothers me: Every holiday has become a major gift-giving occasion. Take Valentine's Day, for instance. When we were kids, we gave little 30 for $1 Valentines to our friends at school and Daddy gave Mom a box of chocolates in a heart-shaped box. Today many people give their children multiple gifts for Valentine's day: Big gifts -- things I'd give my children for birthdays!

It's just more and more consumer-ism, which leads to children who have too much and appreciate too little. And with America's consumer debt at an all-time high, we as a nation need to reign this stuff in at bit!

 

[MrsPete]

Possible origins of Easter:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eostre

Easter is as pagan as Halloween or Christmas. i.e. there are a lot of pagan traditions there - the name, the time of year (though Easter coincides with Passover - its date hasn't been as "arguably randomly chosen" as Christmas), eggs and bunnies....even the rebirth isn't original to Christianity and is found in many preChristian religions, usually in the Spring as Spring is the season for rebirth. But pagan does not equal evil or bad, and just because Christianity borrowed the traditions of earlier religions does not make it invalid as a belief system. If you throw out all the pieces Christianity borrowed, you won't have many traditions left - even communion disappears as it was a feature of pre-Christian Roman religious life.

Early Christians were heavily persecuted by the Romans, and they found it convenient to "blend in" by celebrating their religious holidays at the same time as everyone else. So they made at least a token effort to do all the things that their neighbors did, but they added in the religiously significant things too (probably quietly, on the sly). Eventually, the old and the new were fused together as one holiday.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Now I know it takes much much longer to teach a classroom full of kids...but for the early grades (K-2)--the strictly academic work...would be completed in less than 2 hours--and the child spends what...maybe 6-8 hours in school? (ETA: based on the curriculum I am using to homeschool my "1" student. I am completely aware that a classroom situation is different--that is why I doubled the time of my curriculum which has me aim at only one hour per day--I am talking strictly academics to not include arts & crafts and extra stuff!)

Unless they were partying daily--I hardly see how the parties would take up that much time as to be disruptive to the school year.

And I wonder how little it has to do with being considerate of the students affiliations and more to do wtih making sure that x-clock hours per day are spent on academics.
In our county--they will have to make up a day for Wilma as school was closed. They tacked it onto the first day of winter break--on a Monday. I asked a Kindergarten teacher if they could do assemblies or other stuff and she said "no"--that they had to have classroom hours--and that reading time...I forget what it is called had to be a certain # of uninteruptted 90-120 minutes. Now the classes will probably be fluff that day as well as a HIGH rate of absences...but they have to have the clock hours of class in on the calendar.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I'll throw out something else that bothers me: Every holiday has become a major gift-giving occasion. Take Valentine's Day, for instance. When we were kids, we gave little 30 for $1 Valentines to our friends at school and Daddy gave Mom a box of chocolates in a heart-shaped box. Today many people give their children multiple gifts for Valentine's day: Big gifts -- things I'd give my children for birthdays!

It's just more and more consumer-ism, which leads to children who have too much and appreciate too little. And with America's consumer debt at an all-time high, we as a nation need to reign this stuff in at bit!

Oh my--I am with you on that! I cannot stand it!

We (at the present) still even keep birthdays modest--though we evaluate on a case by case basis each year .

 

[MrsPete]

Add to that children of other faiths who don't particpate in those holidays or children from homes where parents are not Christian. I'm the last person in the world to be PC, but when it comes to endless parties at school for a zillion different holiday's count me out. Save it for an end of the year bash Just my humble opinion.

Here's an oddity for you: We're celebrating NO ONE'S holidays! Seriously. I teach high school, so we're not big into the parties like the elementary kiddos, but we do have bulletin boards in the commons areas that acknowledge the various seasonal holidays. Right now we have a board full of pumpkins. Soon it'll be changed to something wintery to advertise the winter semi-formal.

But back to no one's holidays . . . last year we had a bulletin board that was divided into three equal parts: Christmas, Chaunnakah (sorry, no clue how to spell that), and Kwanza. Now, we live in the deep South. This is not called the Bible Belt for nothing. We're mostly Baptists and Methodists; Catholics are even few and far between here. I am personally aware of two Jewish students in my entire school -- oops, no, one of them graduated last year. Of course, it's possible that there are some I don't know. I agree that they are a part of the school and "their holiday" (hmm, that sounds crass) deserves recognition. Last year the students in one of my classes asked me what Kwanza is. I told them as best I could, and they were interested in the concept, but they were surprised to find that no one in my entire class had ever even heard of it. So they set out to see who at our school celebrates Kwanza. They found no one. Should we really be commemorating holidays that mean nothing to anyone in the school?

 

[vhoffman]

I think its sad that schools no longer offer Halloween parties. Our school used to have a Fall Festival, along with two nearby churches. It was all fun, no religious overtones. However, this year there were no Fall Festivals anywhere. Not at school, church, anywhere. My kids hardly had any place to wear their costumes! Such a shame, to spend so much time and money for costumes, only to wear them for a few hours Halloween night. What's the harm in a little fun?Our churech just asked that no one dress up as witches, devils, etc. However, last year several came in such costumes, so I guess that's why they didn't have a Fall Festival this year. Oh, honestly, I really don't think anyone's inmortal soul was defiled by those little costumes.

This year my children's souls were saved--and they were all dressed up with no place to go!

 

[Disneyrsh]

Here's an oddity for you: We're celebrating NO ONE'S holidays! Seriously. I teach high school, so we're not big into the parties like the elementary kiddos, but we do have bulletin boards in the commons areas that acknowledge the various seasonal holidays. Right now we have a board full of pumpkins. Soon it'll be changed to something wintery to advertise the winter semi-formal.

But back to no one's holidays . . . last year we had a bulletin board that was divided into three equal parts: Christmas, Chaunnakah (sorry, no clue how to spell that), and Kwanza. Now, we live in the deep South. This is not called the Bible Belt for nothing. We're mostly Baptists and Methodists; Catholics are even few and far between here. I am personally aware of two Jewish students in my entire school -- oops, no, one of them graduated last year. Of course, it's possible that there are some I don't know. I agree that they are a part of the school and "their holiday" (hmm, that sounds crass) deserves recognition. Last year the students in one of my classes asked me what Kwanza is. I told them as best I could, and they were interested in the concept, but they were surprised to find that no one in my entire class had ever even heard of it. So they set out to see who at our school celebrates Kwanza. They found no one. Should we really be commemorating holidays that mean nothing to anyone in the school?

Most of my friends that are african american think kwanzaa's a joke. Evidently it was created about 20 years ago by a felon while in jail.

At some point the ACLU's going to ban just about everything spiritual in our public daily lives, anyway...

 

[MiknMinMouse]

Just one other thing for those who love having all the parties at school. When we started this school year I spent about $200 in school supplies for my 9th grader (no joke) and about $50 for my 2nd grader. School is expensive enough as it is. Field trips average about $10 each. That may not sound like much to some of you but with two kids in school coming home just about every week with something else to spend money on (PTA, fund raisers, book fairs, etc. etc. etc.) the absolute last thing I need is to have parties every month. Last year's end of year party ended up costing me personally almost $100 by the time I got the teachers gifts and gifts for the kids in the class. I don't protest parties at the school. If there is a party there I don't want my kids involved in, I keep them home or check them out, but I know there are a lot of children in my daughter's class especially who can barely afford the basics that are required. I can only imagine what happens when they come home with a note from the class mom to please send in money for little Susie for this party or that party. Think beyond the wanting your child to dress up to the economics of all of it. Who pays for all of the parties, if the parents don't then the teachers (who make very little anyway) end up footing a lot of the bill. For our end of year party last year my daughter's teacher bought a lot of things for the children out of her own money. Let them save their money and spend it on their families. Have parties at home.

 

[vhoffman]

MinMouse,
I agree with you 100%!!!

I have two children in elementary and it does add up. Like you, seems everytime I open their folders there's yet another request for money for this or that, not to mention the various fundraisers for disaster victims, etc. Yes, I do give to charity, but that's a point--I've already made generoud donations to Red Cross, etc., I can't be expected to be bled dry.

Here's another gripe along the same line--the school wanting kids dressed up for various "theme" days. I've been expected to dress them up like cowboys, pioneers, Dr. Seuess, Cat-in-the-Hat, Career Day, etc. Usually I get essentially one day's notice. A notice comes home Monday, which I usually don't read until Monday night, requesting the special costumes for Wednesday. They say they give 3 days notice--Monday thru Wed. Well, duh! I don't get the notice until Monday night, they want it on Wednesday, so that gives me one day, right? And they always say "please don't feel the need to buy anything, just use what you have around the house". Well, of course, I have cowboy and Dr. seuess stuff just laying all around the house, and it will only take me five minutes to whip up something. And just how do they expect me to obtain materials for a costume if I don't buy it? It puts my kids at such a disadvantage because the mothers who plan all this, of course, know about it weeks in advance and have been at their sewing machines every day. Then my kids come in with something half-baked that I strained to pull together at the last minute. Many times I've run out at the last minute and spent $50 or more to get my kids the "right" costume, so they won't feel left out.

Well, I've learned to "just say no" to these requests. I've found over the years that they just want the kids to dress up for their scrapbooks, yearbooks, etc. They take pictures of all the "nice" costumes first thing in the morning, then take the costume off them about 9 am. The costume I spent so much time and money on (at the last minute) comes home crammed into their backpack, like its not even worth packing nicely. And they never take pictures of my kids, regardless of how cute their costumes are. It took me a few years to learn this, the volunteer and room mothers' kids (the ones who know about all this crap well in advance and can plan for it) are the only one's who's pictures are taken. When it comes to my kids I do just about anything to see to it that they don't feel left out. However, they told me that they just take pictures of the teacher's pets, then let them wear their get ups most of the day, while making the others remove theirs. When I asked a teacher why they weren't allowed to wear the get ups all day they replied "it was getting in the way of doing their work". Well, they're the ones who asked for them to be dress up that way! I've noticed that very few actually comply with these "dress-up" days, so I just ignore it this year. It a budget breaker, like all the parties!

 

[MiknMinMouse]

Usually I get essentially one day's notice. A notice comes home Monday, which I usually don't read until Monday night, requesting the special costumes for Wednesday. They say they give 3 days notice--Monday thru Wed. Well, duh! I don't get the notice until Monday night, they want it on Wednesday, so that gives me one day, right? And they always say "please don't feel the need to buy anything, just use what you have around the house". Well, of course, I have cowboy and Dr. seuess stuff just laying all around the house, and it will only take me five minutes to whip up something. !

I had to LOL when I read this. I can't even list how many times I've frantically had to run out to find something, not necessarily a dress up item but something that HAS to be had by the next day. As if I have all the time in the world (3 children are no work at all don't ya know). I'm at the just say no point. Or actually my wallet is at the just say no. I pick and choose which fundraisers I'll participate in ~ any extra activities are chosen carefully. And as for the class gifts give to every one under the sun all year long ~ not me. My children make or choose gifts from the heart for their teachers as a thank you at the end of the year. And for all the parents who do all of this stuff for their kids, half the time my kids don't even tell me and I'll ask them why didn't they mention something ~ they say because they didn't want to do whatever the crazy dress day was. HMMMM.