Naked as a Jay Bird!

[Alesia]

Again...you (and a couple of others) are taking this whole subject to a whole new level....over the top...we agree to disagree on this subject (and it sound like many others as well)...at least I know my child will never be used in this way for some pervert to get his "jollies"...if someone photoshops my child's head on someone else's body...well then, it is not my child is it???? It makes me sleep better at night knowing I am doing the right thing in my opinion...I am sorry you feel differently...end of conversation!! Oh, yeah...and I am sorry the way I sometimes respond makes it difficult for you to follow...I guess that makes it simple...do not read my responses.

Many molesters aren't necessarily getting their jollies from seeing naked children. Many enjoy seeing them in shorts, or bathing suits, or princess dresses, or whatever. If you can imagine it, there is some sicko that gets off on it. What are you going to do? Put your kid in a burka so no one sees them at all? The whole point I have been trying to make is that you can't control the thoughts of a pervert. What you can do is supervise your child. Yes, you should be cautious, but you should be more concerned about things that are statistically likely to happen. This is like when people are terrified of terrorist attacks, but aren't at all concerned about riding in a car, which is not very dramatic, but it is statistically the most dangerous thing we do.

 

[mkycrzy1971]

The AIDS virus dies immediately after leaving the body

This might be partlytrue...but how immediate is immediate??? It does live for a short while (according to what I can see it can be for a few hours although it is in a week, fragile state...enough for me to not take a chance...why would anyone???)...although, I am sure there is a medical expert lurking on this board that can clarify this for us....anyone???

 

[seashoreCM]

The AIDS virus dies immediately after leaving the body

How does the AIDS virus know that the urine it is floating in is now in a puddle in the street or that the blood it is in is now in a mosquito and therefore it must die?

We need to be gentle dealing with these kids running around naked. Too many kids who had a lot of self confidence taking their clothes off get scolded and then they get very self conscious not wanting to take their clothes off, say in a locker room, later in life.

Frolicking in Jello or milk or chocolate pudding or agar (the latter is used to culture bacteria in laboratories) is equally hazardous as frolicking in urine although urine takes on a bad odor from bacterial growth faster than the other substances named.

Don't sit on the streetcar track on Main St. The horses ...

I was in a store recently and a kid in diapers had an accident on his way to the rest room. A store employee mopped up the mess (including feces). A little while later I saw the employee mopping the floor elsewhere. I was not sure whether he did not change the water in the bucket in the meantime. Unlike urine, feces is laden with bacteria.

Disney hints: http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/disney.htm

 

[mkycrzy1971]

I don't think of sickos on a normal nightly basis either, but I just have the common sense to know that I'm not going to let my daughter run around naked in front of potential perverts.
Of course, she can always be a target no matter what she is or is not wearing, but, like I said in my previous post, I'm also not going to facilitate any potential pedophiles fantasies by letting her run around naked in public.

AMEN!!!

 

[mkycrzy1971]

That is 1 case! You were trying to convince me that this is how it is most of the time. I have never said it doesn´t happen, just that it wasn´t the most common type of child molestation.

Maybe you do not see the US news there in Iceland...it is quite the problem here and to say otherwise it ridiculious!!! Believe me, there are many instances...and according to reports, they think this guy has been at it for years....he has a whole library of his "acts"!!! I surely hope that you do not find this undisturbing....I certainly find 1 case disturbing....let alone the multitude of cases that are a reality.

 

[mkycrzy1971]

I guess you don´t let her run around naked anywhere then? Not even at home!

I think she said (as you have highlighted) "in front of potential perverts"....to me that equals PUBLIC

 

[mkycrzy1971]

Many molesters aren't necessarily getting their jollies from seeing naked children. Many enjoy seeing them in shorts, or bathing suits, or princess dresses, or whatever. If you can imagine it, there is some sicko that gets off on it. What are you going to do? Put your kid in a burka so no one sees them at all? The whole point I have been trying to make is that you can't control the thoughts of a pervert. What you can do is supervise your child. Yes, you should be cautious, but you should be more concerned about things that are statistically likely to happen. This is like when people are terrified of terrorist attacks, but aren't at all concerned about riding in a car, which is not very dramatic, but it is statistically the most dangerous thing we do.

Well now...we cannot help that...but I can help a pervert having a NAKED picture of my child....

 

[mom2taylorandemily]

I don't think of sickos on a normal nightly basis either, but I just have the common sense to know that I'm not going to let my daughter run around naked in front of potential perverts.
Of course, she can always be a target no matter what she is or is not wearing, but, like I said in my previous post, I'm also not going to facilitate any potential pedophiles fantasies by letting her run around naked in public.

I totally agree with you, and I really don't want to stir up an even worse debate here, but tell me:

How does one know who the potential pervert is?

I don't know how to spot one, so I just err on the side of caution and keep my DDs dressed all the time in public, I also have raised them to be modest in their clothing and actions at all times.

The bottem line for me is this: yes a naked baby butt or young toddler could be perceived as adorable (ie: a great photo op for the scrapbook at home), but there is a time and place for even that, but allowing a 4 or almost 5 year old run naked in a fountain at WDW is a little bit too exposure for me. Just my .02, now doning my flame suit.

 

[Boncho]

No matter which way you look at it, a four year old is too old to be running around naked - it is 'cute' when a one or two year old strips off and runs naked until you catch him, but a four year old? Not in my opinion.

 

[DizGeek]

The AIDS virus dies immediately after leaving the body

So a used needle cant transfer the AIDS virus?

 

[Alesia]

So a used needle cant transfer the AIDS virus?

Let me rephrase. The AIDS virus dies immediately when exposed to air.

 

[mkycrzy1971]

I totally agree with you, and I really don't want to stir up an even worse debate here, but tell me:

How does one know who the potential pervert is?

I don't know how to spot one, so I just err on the side of caution and keep my DDs dressed all the time in public, I also have raised them to be modest in their clothing and actions at all times.

The bottem line for me is this: yes a naked baby butt or young toddler could be perceived as adorable (ie: a great photo op for the scrapbook at home), but there is a time and place for even that, but allowing a 4 or almost 5 year old run naked in a fountain at WDW is a little bit too exposure for me. Just my .02, now doning my flame suit.

Welcome aboard!!! You, I and a couple of others are the only parents that apparently feel this way....which is hard for me to believe in today's society, but none the less...as I said in an earlier post...we can rest easy at night knowing we are doing everything possible to keep our children safe from perverts....as you asked....how does one know who is a potential pervert??? I will not risk my children, I am glad you and the other few here that agree do not either....they rely on us to keep them innocent.

 

[mkycrzy1971]

No matter which way you look at it, a four year old is too old to be running around naked - it is 'cute' when a one or two year old strips off and runs naked until you catch him, but a four year old? Not in my opinion.

Welcome aboard!!! We are in the minority here though...expect to be highly criticized for protecting your child's innocence in a reasonable way...however, no matter how much criticism, I will not change my mind on this subject....I am glad to see you will not either.

 

[mkycrzy1971]

Let me rephrase. The AIDS virus dies immediately when exposed to air.

Still...not ALWAYS according to the info I am seeing...it is possible for the virus to live for several hours in a weakened/fragile state....however, again, I do not claim to be an expert....maybe those that do/are could respond.

 

[MinnieTink]

Doesn't bother me a bit at that age, except for the issue of sunburn risk. However, I do carry water clothes for my kids to play in fountains in, just because there are so many prudish people in this country who are liable to make a scene about the state of a child's dress. (However, at that age I discreetly change their clothes off to the side -- I can't see unnecessarily taking up a bathroom stall for the purpose when it is a simple matter of wrapping them in a towel and putting them between me and a bush for the few minutes it takes to get their dry clothes on.)

As to the whole predator thing, I don't personally see it as an issue in circumstances such as these. I decided a LONG time ago that I am NOT going to worry about being responsible for what other people are thinking, even if they have twisted minds. Actions are worth my concern, mere thoughts are not. As long as I am closely supervising my prepubescent children and know that no one is touching them or speaking to them inappropriately, then it just isn't a problem; I don't see how they could be harmed if someone that passes by happens to have untoward thoughts. Even photos are not harmful, IMO, unless they have been photoshopped or something -- a photo of a kid playing in a fountain is a photo of a kid playing in a fountain; it isn't going to become a potentially traumatizing pornographic image simply because it has ended up on a site that caters to the fantasies of perverts.

People with unusual tastes can have fetishes about just about ANYTHING; even burkhas and religious' habits. IMO, making a production of hiding from their eyes whilst doing perfectly innocent things is a waste of effort, and frightens children unnecessarily. Lots of folks will disagree with my comfort level on this topic, and that's OK by me; you have as much right to be hyper-vigilant about your own kids as I have to be laissez-faire about mine.

I guess I am proudly hyper-vigilant then....

I asked my 7 y/o DD her opinion on the issue of seeing a naked boy playing in the fountain in WDW, and her response, "Um, I think just eww!!"

Just my 2cents... I agree 4 years old is a little bit more Boy than Baby and Mom should have had enough sense to at least make an effort to throw shorts on the little dude. I am not a prude and not offended by nudity, but really... that is not the time or place.

 

[mkycrzy1971]

]I guess I am proudly hyper-vigilant then.... [/B]
I asked my 7 y/o DD her opinion on the issue of seeing a naked boy playing in the fountain in WDW, and her response, "Um, I think just eww!!"

Just my 2cents... I agree 4 years old is a little bit more Boy than Baby and Mom should have had enough sense to at least make an effort to throw shorts on the little dude. I am not a prude and not offended by nudity, but really... that is not the time or place.

Me too!!! Welcome aboard!! Another advicate for keeping your children clothed in public...you are correct, there is a time and a place and it is not WDW!

 

[dqpowell]

HIV can live in certain bodily fluids after leaving the body for a short time. However, as has been mentioned several times, HIV in urine is not transmissible, even if it lives for a while.

Temperature is another regulator. HIV will live considerably longer outside the body if it is in a fluid capable of supporting it and the temperature of that fluid is kept close to body temperature. Raise or lower the temperature and the virus dies before long.

I'm going to drop out of this discussion now. It's totally unproductive. mkycrzy1971, I apologize if you think I was insulting you. I was not. I just noticed a similarity between what you were doing -- twisting the meaning of what I wrote to imply that I would encourage or allow my children to play in a puddle of urine -- and what my wife sometimes does, twisting what I say around and putting words in my mouth. The fact is that I love my wife dearly even if she frustrates me occasionally. So don't take my observation as an insult. It was more of a frustration.

David

 

[dawgfan]

I worked the Olympics in 1996 as a law enforcement officer. Of course all he cultural differences come out in that type of situation. Around the Athletes pool area they constantly changed clothes on the pool deck in full view, much the amazement of some officers (and entertainment of others ) . They showed up clothed, walked out to the pool area and then striped in order to put their bathing suit on. Why not just swim naked??? They did not change clothes in a hurry or cover themselves when doing this. Nudity in some countries is just not a big deal.

 

[mkycrzy1971]

HIV can live in certain bodily fluids after leaving the body for a short time. However, as has been mentioned several times, HIV in urine is not transmissible, even if it lives for a while.

Temperature is another regulator. HIV will live considerably longer outside the body if it is in a fluid capable of supporting it and the temperature of that fluid is kept close to body temperature. Raise or lower the temperature and the virus dies before long.

I'm going to drop out of this discussion now. It's totally unproductive. mkycrzy1971, I apologize if you think I was insulting you. I was not. I just noticed a similarity between what you were doing -- twisting the meaning of what I wrote to imply that I would encourage or allow my children to play in a puddle of urine -- and what my wife sometimes does, twisting what I say around and putting words in my mouth. The fact is that I love my wife dearly even if she frustrates me occasionally. So don't take my observation as an insult. It was more of a frustration.

David

I do not feel that is what I implied...I implied I would not allow my children to play in someone else's urine no matter how sterile (and have a VERY hard time believing any parent would even argue that point)....it is still unsanitary. No need for an apology....you have a right to your opinion as I do mine....I understand your frustration....I feel the same way with some of the responses to this topic...it makes me wonder what the world will be like 20 years from now....just when we think it could not get any worse....

 

[mom2taylorandemily]

As I read most of this thread, I do realize that cultural differences do occur. However, as the old adage goes: When in Spain, do as the Spanyards. So, therefore the same should be true of when traveling to America, do as the Americans do. In our country we unfortunately have a high number of pediphiles and I also realize that many of you recognize that fact. But the fact remains that when in WDW we have no idea who is a pediphile, case in point happened recently at the Swan by the pool. None of us know who is watching our children at play. Why would anyone take unnecessary chances that some weirdo could be scoping out your child just waiting for an opportunity to move in. And lets face it, WDW would be a pediphiles happy playground. I think that it is negligent on the part of parents to be so trusting of the public at large. While many of us would say oh how cute to the 2 yr. old who has pulled off his diaper to run thru the fountains, most moms would immediately scoop their child up and put the diaper back on. Would that be for hygiene reasons or safety reasons? I don't know, but for me it would have been both.

I just don't see why anyone would take unneccessary chances with their children like that. My children have always been very private about dressing and undressing and I as their parent have always respected their right to be that way.

I do on the other hand have a sister who has a Laise Faire attitude about the body as well. She works in a hospital and sees bodies all day long, so to her it is fact of life to see naked people. I was offended when years ago, at Water Country USA she changed her child's diaper (who was 2) right there beside the side of the pool. I told her to go the rest room to do it and she looked at me like I had 2 heads, she why, I don't feel like walking over there. In her case she was being lazy and again, the naked body is a fact of life for her. I think for most it is a matter of how people view the body.

I choose to not show my DDs off in public naked, never have and never will. I will not give some pervert any ammunition to get his rocks off.

FLAME SUIT ON NOW!!!!