My son.....the next Martin Luther

[barkley]

i'm probably one of the kind of examples the catholic church sites for making the confirmation process more cumbersome for teens (i know i was the specific example in the region i grew up in). i was baptized in the catholic church but by the time i came along the family was not regularly attending. when i reached age 18 or 19 i returned to the church and decided after a period of thim that i wanted confirmation. i was much younger than the adult confimation group (and few or none had been raised in the catholic faith so the training was not realy appropriate to my situation) and well older than the teen confirmation group so i was given private instuction and counseling. because i had taken a comparative religions course in college and the instuctor had talked of researching official church doctine regarding membership vs. what is presented in local churches/parish i did. i presented a number of questions to the priests, many of which they had to research before they could answer. i ultimatly was confirmed, but based on my questions it brought to light to church officials just how much the younger confirmation candidates were NOT questioning. the policy for confimations changed drasticly the next year. the age was raised as was the level of instuction.

i am no longer a practicing catholic. while my children attend a seventh day adventist school and my husband was raised as such i am adamantly against their joining until they become adults (which in sda church is done via "baptism" and although the church still advocates it only be entered into as an adult is widely being done for teens). my husband questioned my adamant stance on this, but after showing him the official church policy on what is entered into (spiritualy and physicaly) by virtue of membership he came to realize how little he knew of his own faith (and he had had 11 years of instuction via daily religious instuction in school). i opted to have my children baptised as infants, but in a christian church that did not recognize it as an affiliation to a denomination.

 

[simba928]

FWIW - I also think most organized religions confirm children to young. I think you should be 18 and not 13. For many of me I was doing it because mom said I had to. Looking back, if I had actually been an adult I would not have gotten confirmed.

~Amanda

I got confirmed this spring (I was 14). I only did it because I had to. My parents are also making me go to church on Sundays. I usually don't pay any attention there because I don't believe anything they are saying.

 

[Lil_Tink]

I am not really religous but I agree that is alot of work, our church says "Do you beleive" you say "yes" and your in..

 

[Lil_Tink]

I got confirmed this spring (I was 14). I only did it because I had to. My parents are also making me go to church on Sundays. I usually don't pay any attention there because I don't believe anything they are saying.

That stinks.. Lol.. My parents let me go to whatever church/religous group I like.

 

[Bichon Barb]

LOL. You can tell Bradley that the Lutherans welcome him with open arms, but first you better tell him that I went to confirmation class for two years, and did a weekend retreat too. And this was the ELCA Lutheran's--the laid back liberal folks.

 

[pw2pp]

My parents are also making me go to church on Sundays. I usually don't pay any attention there because I don't believe anything they are saying.

You don't believe ANY of it?

 

[RoyalCanadian]

LOL. You can tell Bradley that the Lutherans welcome him with open arms, but first you better tell him that I went to confirmation class for two years, and did a weekend retreat too. And this was the ELCA Lutheran's--the laid back liberal folks.

I'm Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada here -- just as laid back and liberal as the ELCA folks, or at least that's what I've been accused of.

The youth in my confirmation class would kill to only have 26 weeks of confirmation -- but that would break the 5th commandment.

Two years of confirmation class -- 90 minutes each Saturday afternoon -- participation in worship services as an acolyte -- regular worship attendance -- attendance in the Sunday Church School programme and participation in a week-long confirmation camp programme at the end of August are all a part of the expectations I have of the young adults in this programme.

 

[RoyalCanadian]

You don't believe ANY of it?

Wouldn't be the first 14-year old to lie on their confirmation day and, sadly, won't be the last.

 

[Bichon Barb]

I'm Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada here -- just as laid back and liberal as the ELCA folks, or at least that's what I've been accused of.

The youth in my confirmation class would kill to only have 26 weeks of confirmation -- but that would break the 5th commandment.

Two years of confirmation class -- 90 minutes each Saturday afternoon -- participation in worship services as an acolyte -- regular worship attendance -- attendance in the Sunday Church School programme and participation in a week-long confirmation camp programme at the end of August are all a part of the expectations I have of the young adults in this programme.

Seriously, I think everything that involves a "class" is boring when you are 14 year olds. But looking back, I had a great time with my church youth group. We had some fun retreats at Vanderkamp, because the topics were interesting. We had the requisite "sexuality" topics, but we even had one retreat on "death and dying" where they even brought in a funeral director to talk to us. Needless to say, that's very cool for a 14 year old. LOL.

But this was...like...a million years ago.

 

[pw2pp]

Wouldn't be the first 14-year old to lie on their confirmation day and, sadly, won't be the last.

No, I wouldn't be surprised if other kids didn't agree with SOME of what is taught, but to not agree with ANY of it? I'm assuming she means she doesn't even believe in God? Nothing against her, I'm just curious.

 

[septbride2002]

Ummm........ya got me scratching my head here. I was confirmed when I converted, so why wouldn't I be confirmed in the eyes of the Catholic faith??

I said I wasn't sure. Back in the day when I went to Catholic Schools you could convert with the sacrament of baptism. Then you had to also receive the sacraments of Reconciliation, Communion, and THEN Confirmation. However it might just be my diocese that did it this way.

~Amanda

 

[6_Time_Momma]

I'm Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada here -- just as laid back and liberal as the ELCA folks, or at least that's what I've been accused of.

The youth in my confirmation class would kill to only have 26 weeks of confirmation -- but that would break the 5th commandment.

Two years of confirmation class -- 90 minutes each Saturday afternoon -- participation in worship services as an acolyte -- regular worship attendance -- attendance in the Sunday Church School programme and participation in a week-long confirmation camp programme at the end of August are all a part of the expectations I have of the young adults in this programme.

Wow. I think that would've turned me away from confirmation!! Sometimes (well, a lot of times) I think organized religion (at least I see this in my church) seems to work counterproductively.......they turn away the young at the very time they need to be drawing them in. I'm not talking about changing their beliefs to suit the young, but definitely need to go a bout things in a different way.

 

[DVC-Don]

Let us know when he nails his letter to the church front door.

 

[JudicialTyranny]

Bradley is taking classes for Confirmation in the Spring. He is not happy with them. He typed out a letter tonight for the priest and the teacher asking questions and protesting. He is not happy that he has to take 26 2-hour classes just to "prove" he wants to be Catholic. He is mad because once a month, they "force" him to go to mass on Sunday with the class (we usually go on Saturday evening as a family). He is upset because they give homework every week in addition to his school homework. And finally, he questions the fact that he is required to go on a $70 retreat. He says "My family can't afford that extra money. Does that make me less deserving of being a Catholic?!"

I have a reaction that seems to be different from the rest of the posts on this thread.

Why is it all about his convenience????

Is he going to complain when he's required to go to college for four long years and take all those silly classes just to get a degree?

Without those Confirmation classes, how is he learning about the Catholic faith? Is he supposed to get confirmed just because he reached the age of all the other kids getting confirmed (who took the classes)? What's going to happen during the Confirmation when the bishop asks him a question in front of everyone?

My kids get about 180 one hour religion classes a year for 8 years.... in Catholic school. So do a measly 26 classes sound so bad?

 

[JudicialTyranny]

I said I wasn't sure. Back in the day when I went to Catholic Schools you could convert with the sacrament of baptism. Then you had to also receive the sacraments of Reconciliation, Communion, and THEN Confirmation. However it might just be my diocese that did it this way.

That's the normal progression when you are "born" Catholic and progress through childhood.

When an adult converts, he/she receives Confirmation at the end of the conversion process. My wife converted about two years ago and she received Confirmation before her first Communion (her first Communion was at the same Mass as the Confirmation and occurred a few minutes later...). Also, the priest (rather than a bishop) can administer Confirmation to an adult.

My wife was baptised and raised Lutheran. There is no separate "re-baptism" when converting to Catholicism if the person was baptized as a Christian (in any denomination).

It was explained to us that if they "re-baptized", it would be as if the previous non-Catholic baptism "didn't count", when that is not the case.

 

[septbride2002]

That's the normal progression when you are "born" Catholic and progress through childhood.

When an adult converts, he/she receives Confirmation at the end of the conversion process. My wife converted about two years ago and she received Confirmation before her first Communion (her first Communion was at the same Mass as the Confirmation and occurred a few minutes later...). Also, the priest (rather than a bishop) can administer Confirmation to an adult.

My wife was baptised and raised Lutheran. There is no separate "re-baptism" when converting to Catholicism if the person was baptized as a Christian (in any denomination).

It was explained to us that if they "re-baptized", it would be as if the previous non-Catholic baptism "didn't count", when that is not the case.

I only knew non-Christians who converted.

~Amanda

 

[RoyalCanadian]

Wow. I think that would've turned me away from confirmation!! Sometimes (well, a lot of times) I think organized religion (at least I see this in my church) seems to work counterproductively.......they turn away the young at the very time they need to be drawing them in. I'm not talking about changing their beliefs to suit the young, but definitely need to go a bout things in a different way.

The Lutheran Church decided long ago that we would do this using the Small Cathechism written by Martin Luther. Lutheran confirmation students have, for centuries, learned the Ten Commandments, the Lord's Prayer, The Apostles' Creed, and the two sacraments of Holy Baptism and Holy Communion. We read the Old Testament and the New Testament alongside the Small Catechism and the Confessions of the Lutheran Church. It is a curriculum that has stood the test of time and I have no qualms about placing high expectations upon the teenagers with whom I work.

We do it a little differently than how I remember confirmation class from the early '80s - but the same material is covered. I use Powerpoint presentations and we watch a scene from a current release DVD each week -- relating the story of the movie to the topic at hand. (We watched part of X-Men in studying the 1st Commandment, You shall have no other gods.) The programme is very intensive -- there is homework and I expect the students to work through that homework with their family.

I have no guarantees that I will ever see these youth again -- but I can rest assured that I have done the job entrusted to me of tending to the seed of faith planted within them by God at their baptism. The congregation I serve may never benefit from the tree of faith that will grow in that young person's life, and that young person may never notice the oak tree in their life -- but one day, a congregation somewhere may just benefit from what they learned when they were 14 years old. I don't know where God will lead those teenagers, but the least I can do is help them discover the tools by which they can lead lives of faith.

What is it that would have turned you away from the programme? The material covered? The high expectations? The time involved?

It's a high commitment programme, and I have no qualms about presenting that to the students at all. I'm in the job of making disciples. My job is to assist these teenagers in developing a framework by which they will be able to integrate their Christian faith and the rest of their life.

It was a woman who went through just such a process in the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America many years ago that made the decision to bring down Enron with her testimony before Congress with her pastor by her side. That's excellent integration of faith and life. I can only dream of the day when one of my parishioners will invite me to join them in prayer before they give testimony at a Royal Commission.

 

[disneymom3]

I said I wasn't sure. Back in the day when I went to Catholic Schools you could convert with the sacrament of baptism. Then you had to also receive the sacraments of Reconciliation, Communion, and THEN Confirmation. However it might just be my diocese that did it this way.

~Amanda

Well, only if she had not been baptized in another Christian faith. The Catholic church goes with once baptized, always baptized so if she had been baptized in a Lutheran, Ev Free, baptist, Methodist whatever, they would have gone straight to confirmation and generally you receive communion once you are confirmed at the same ceremony.

ETA--sorry didn't see the above reply before typing mine.

 

[phillybeth]

No, I wouldn't be surprised if other kids didn't agree with SOME of what is taught, but to not agree with ANY of it? I'm assuming she means she doesn't even believe in God? Nothing against her, I'm just curious.

There are people who don't believe in god or gods you know. And I was about that age when I started questioning. By the end of high school my mind was made up.

To get back to the OP, though, it does seem a bit intense. Although I went to Catholic school and much of this was probably integrated into religion class. I don't remember having to attend a particular mass, we didn't go on retreat- and if we had it would have been at the convent or rectory, no way were most parents in my parish going to pay extra money they didn't have, the tuiton was high enough for a working-class neighborhood.
One thing to keep in mind though- they are teaching to the lowest common denominator. Most kids in CCD (I'm assuming that's what Brad is in) do not have the religious foundation that your kids obviously have. He is ahead of the curve, and understandably bored and frustrated. He knows what he wants and he wants it NOW, not after taking classes that teach him what he already knows. I just don't know if there is a solution that will satisfy him and your parish.

 

[6_Time_Momma]

I have a reaction that seems to be different from the rest of the posts on this thread.

Why is it all about his convenience????

Is he going to complain when he's required to go to college for four long years and take all those silly classes just to get a degree?

Probably not, since he has to learn that stuff to get a degree. The stuff he is learning in these confirmation classes is stuff he already knows. And he never said they were "silly" anyway.

Without those Confirmation classes, how is he learning about the Catholic faith?

From us. From daily practice of his faith.

Is he supposed to get confirmed just because he reached the age of all the other kids getting confirmed (who took the classes)?

No, he's supposesd to get confirmed because he wants to profess his faith as a CAtholic. Because he has made the decision that this is the faith he wishes to follow. Because he wants to be able to recieve the gifts of the Holy Spirit and the graces that God can give him

What's going to happen during the Confirmation when the bishop asks him a question in front of everyone?

He'll probably answer it.

My kids get about 180 one hour religion classes a year for 8 years.... in Catholic school. So do a measly 26 classes sound so bad?

Yes, to him it does.