My Points are all Messed Up by MS

[Belle & Ariel]

I cancelled a reservation for June today. My use year is August and I asked to bank the points. The gal told me I could only bank part of them. I have 150 points and have banked 22 so far, so I figure I should be able to bank up to 128 for a total of my 150. I only wanted to bank the 99 from the res. I cancelled.
It turns out when I made a made a reservation last year, they borrowed points from this year even though I had 162 points available at the time. The girl on the phone said they would not have done this without me requesting it--I insisted I would not have done such a thing and she kind of patronizingly said well we don't know what transpired in the conversation. You must have or we would not have done it. I definitely know I did not and would not borrow into the next year, possibly wasting points.
It turns out they have banked points I did not know about also--with several months left in the year.
What should I do to avoid losing my points?

 

[drusba]

You need to talk to a higher authority and thus call and ask for a manager. What she accused you of doing does not occur with anyone. No one ever borrows points when they have sufficient current points for a trip and if someone actually started to do that the MS person should tell them not to. Thus, call back and get to a manager.

 

[arthur06]

I don't know this for a fact, but I thought I read that MS actually records call in case there is a dispute.

 

[Belle & Ariel]

The points were borrowed to fill a wait list that came through...there was no phone conversation except for when I had the WL created--so I was not there to authorize the borrowing.

 

[Dean]

The points were borrowed to fill a wait list that came through...there was no phone conversation except for when I had the WL created--so I was not there to authorize the borrowing.

Generally when they WL or you do it online, the info is gathered whether it's OK to borrow points if necessary. If your sure you didn't give permission when you started the WL, escalate the issue. One thing that gets some people is they don't understand that the points must be available at the time of a given reservation. Say you had banked points in a reservation then make a second reservation with current UY points. At a later time you canceled the first freeing up banked points. The end result is you have banked points in your account and current UY points in your reservation. They often can make it work but you must ask them to do so.

 

[DebbieB]

You need to talk to a higher authority and thus call and ask for a manager. What she accused you of doing does not occur with anyone. No one ever borrows points when they have sufficient current points for a trip and if someone actually started to do that the MS person should tell them not to. Thus, call back and get to a manager.

It happened to me once. I had plenty of current year points for the reservation. I was calling in January for a December reservation with an April use year. So they should have used the April points that were current year for that reservation, I did not have any banked. For some reason, they borrowed points from the following year instead! When she gave me my balance, I told her it was wrong but she insisted that the computer just needed to "catch up". Good thing I checked online and called back. It took a couple of days to straighten out. They ended up cancelling the reservation I made and redid it, good thing I didn't lose it. So it can happen when you have someone at MS who doesn't know what they are doing.

 

[Deb & Bill]

You appear to have two reservations based on your tickers. If you made the second one before the first, they may have had to borrow to get the points you needed. And if you waitlist without the necessary points to make that reservation they borrow. So you authorized borrowing.

Could you reallocate the points used for the second trip and bank those instead? Unless they were borrowed.

 

[JimMIA]

It sounds to me like there was no mistake on MS' part -- just another of the inherent problems with the automatic waitlist.

However, as Dean suggested, you might be able to go back and reallocate the non-bankable points to the trip you are still taking and bank all or most of the rest.

Good luck.

 

[Belle & Ariel]

You appear to have two reservations based on your tickers. If you made the second one before the first, they may have had to borrow to get the points you needed. And if you waitlist without the necessary points to make that reservation they borrow. So you authorized borrowing.

Could you reallocate the points used for the second trip and bank those instead? Unless they were borrowed.

The girl there said I had 162 points available when the 60 point waitlist was filled and points borrowed.

I have an August use year, so my September trip would be too late for me to use them.

After next September's trip points have been deducted, I have 164 2011points without counting the ones that cannot be banked. I bought a loaded contract with banked points and have never been in a position where I needed to borrow points.

 

[gkrykewy]

I would call again, play dumb, tell them it looks like your points are all screwed up, and see what they can do to help ou out. I've heard of one-time exceptions being made when a member forgets to bank -- perhaps they can do something similar for you.

 

[Sandisw]

Are the points correct in terms of your Sept vacation? Did they use the right ones for that?


Is it possible that the CM banked your 2010 UY points prior to making your September 2011 trip so they could be used then?

If that happened, it would then make sense as to why they would have borrowed for the wait list for June.

Have you gone on the DVC membersite and checked the point activity for your contract? It should give you the dates that things were done and may at least give you more specific information for when you call back and talk to someone.

Good luck!

 

[Belle & Ariel]

The waitlist was not for June. It was on a trip I have already taken. My June reservation should have been current points if prior trips had banked points allocated correctly.
I called again today. The first person said what I was told yesterday was not the problem, could not figure it out, and passed me to a manager. He went through my account, told me my Dec. 2010 stay at the BWV was on borrowed points. I had my account pulled up and had 210 points when I made the reservation for a stay of about 100 points--why would they borrow????
I asked why banked points would not have been used. Again he said they used borrowed points. My account did not show points being borrowed for the transaction and I said so. After a while he said they had used about 40 banked points and current for the balance---why not use all my banked points first? Why would they borrow (I don't think they did) when I had points available?
He did not know why, said I must have set it up that way, talked about a reservation I cancelled a few years back which was a switch from an 11 month home reservation to a stay at AKL which was less than 10 points difference total being the problem.
Then the best part--he puts me on hold and comes back to gruffly say I talked to Jane Doe yesterday and she explained it clearly--so why don't I get it. I told him if she explained it clearly (remember she said the problem came from borrowed points when I had 162 available--I actually had 182) then he had not explained it clearly because he was talking about a lot of other stuff.

I feel my Dec 2010 stay should have had all banked points allocated--not sure why they did not do this, but is there a way they can correct what I am sure is THEIR error?

 

[bookwormde]

If you had current use year points available it should not be possible to borrow points, so if the supervisor new that what he is saying makes no sense.

Call back one more time and ask for a supervisor again. If the answer still does not make sense then ask for the next level up to call you and if they are unwilling to do that ask for the number of quality assurance and give them a call. Be sure to keep the names of everyone you talked to for QA since they will likely want to send trainign notes back to MS if they figure out it was an MS error.

bookwormde

 

[Sandisw]

The waitlist was not for June. It was on a trip I have already taken. My June reservation should have been current points if prior trips had banked points allocated correctly.
I called again today. The first person said what I was told yesterday was not the problem, could not figure it out, and passed me to a manager. He went through my account, told me my Dec. 2010 stay at the BWV was on borrowed points. I had my account pulled up and had 210 points when I made the reservation for a stay of about 100 points--why would they borrow????
I asked why banked points would not have been used. Again he said they used borrowed points. My account did not show points being borrowed for the transaction and I said so. After a while he said they had used about 40 banked points and current for the balance---why not use all my banked points first? Why would they borrow (I don't think they did) when I had points available?
He did not know why, said I must have set it up that way, talked about a reservation I cancelled a few years back which was a switch from an 11 month home reservation to a stay at AKL which was less than 10 points difference total being the problem.
Then the best part--he puts me on hold and comes back to gruffly say I talked to Jane Doe yesterday and she explained it clearly--so why don't I get it. I told him if she explained it clearly (remember she said the problem came from borrowed points when I had 162 available--I actually had 182) then he had not explained it clearly because he was talking about a lot of other stuff.

I feel my Dec 2010 stay should have had all banked points allocated--not sure why they did not do this, but is there a way they can correct what I am sure is THEIR error?

If it were me, I would go through your point activity statements and write down exactly what points you had (and the status of the points) and do an explicit time line of what should have been done.

The only downfall I think you have right now is that you already traveled on the borrowed points. There is no way to "give them back' to you. Had you noticed the issue when the wait list was first filled, then I think you would have been able to fix it as it would have shown that you still had points available for that trip.

If you look at your account right now, what does it have it in? I would start there and work backwards.

This is one of the reasons I think that members should always check your online accunt as soon as you make a reservation to ensure MS did what you wanted them to do in terms of points.

Good luck!

 

[OurDogCisco]

If it were me, I would go through your point activity statements and write down exactly what points you had (and the status of the points) and do an explicit time line of what should have been done.

The only downfall I think you have right now is that you already traveled on the borrowed points. There is no way to "give them back' to you. Had you noticed the issue when the wait list was first filled, then I think you would have been able to fix it as it would have shown that you still had points available for that trip.

If you look at your account right now, what does it have it in? I would start there and work backwards.

This is one of the reasons I think that members should always check your online accunt as soon as you make a reservation to ensure MS did what you wanted them to do in terms of points.

Good luck!

I agree, you need to log on to your DVC account to follow your transactions. I would write everything down on a spreadsheet of what should have happened. Then, when you call MS you can show them what should have happened. Otherwise, I wouldn't be hung up on why they used borrow points show them that they should have used current year points.

Good luck..

 

[Dean]

The waitlist was not for June. It was on a trip I have already taken. My June reservation should have been current points if prior trips had banked points allocated correctly.
I called again today. The first person said what I was told yesterday was not the problem, could not figure it out, and passed me to a manager. He went through my account, told me my Dec. 2010 stay at the BWV was on borrowed points. I had my account pulled up and had 210 points when I made the reservation for a stay of about 100 points--why would they borrow????
I asked why banked points would not have been used. Again he said they used borrowed points. My account did not show points being borrowed for the transaction and I said so. After a while he said they had used about 40 banked points and current for the balance---why not use all my banked points first? Why would they borrow (I don't think they did) when I had points available?
He did not know why, said I must have set it up that way, talked about a reservation I cancelled a few years back which was a switch from an 11 month home reservation to a stay at AKL which was less than 10 points difference total being the problem.
Then the best part--he puts me on hold and comes back to gruffly say I talked to Jane Doe yesterday and she explained it clearly--so why don't I get it. I told him if she explained it clearly (remember she said the problem came from borrowed points when I had 162 available--I actually had 182) then he had not explained it clearly because he was talking about a lot of other stuff.

I feel my Dec 2010 stay should have had all banked points allocated--not sure why they did not do this, but is there a way they can correct what I am sure is THEIR error?

I know I've had points accounting issues where the fault was DVC's and others where there was an important detail I'd forgotten and the error was mine. My gut feeling is that the error in this case is not DVC's but rather there is a detail you're forgotten or a misunderstanding of the rules on your part. Here are a few variables that could be applicable.

Do you have more than one UY or home resort?
Did you have any trips that you booked and later either cancelled or changed the points for?
Did you have any existing reservations in future UY when you later banked points?
Did you have any reservations that crossed over UY?
Did you miss any banking deadlines?
Did you give them permission to borrow the points for the WL at any time, not just at the time of the reservation?

As noted above, to do a postmortem on this you've got to figure out where each point was every time there was a break point. That means every crossover date for UY and at the exact moment of every reservation or change in reservation. It's reasonably simple if you only have one UY and home resort but gets very complicated if you have multiple of either.

 

[Belle & Ariel]

I think I have figured out where things got messed up. My Dec. 2010 BWV reservation used part banked points and part current points. I did not know why they used 38 banked ones and the rest current, leaving some of my banked points.
Today I cancelled my Sept. 2011 reservation on current points and rebooked using points banked from the cancelled June reservation--they did this just to allocate my banked points. When I hung up, I checked and it had pulled points from next year because it showed less than my total as available to bank. I called and again asked that all banked points be used and she said she was doing it. Again my account showed it had not happened. On a third call she was able to use all banked points and my account now shows 150 available to bank next year.
I noticed the amount of banked points used the first 2 times was from banking done early in the year when I dropped nights at the end of a trip. I have separate banking numbers and it seems to just pull points from a banking and then use current points for the rest of the reservation. The previous BWV reservation had used 38 banked points which is also an amount banked at one time even though there were more banked another day that should have been used on the reservation.
I have spent about an hour each day the last 3 days with MS and don't think most are trained well. I have given up on getting the past corrected. I used to check my account to see that correct dates and points were posted, but now I will be checking next year's points to make sure they are not used instead of banked ones.
I will only lose one point--a friend and I will be going to Vero Beach with our sons when school gets out. I had cancelled my June reservation because we are going on a cruise instead--we will be back from Vero 8 days before we head to NY for the cruise.

Everyone really needs to watch your account if you bank points on more than one date because the computer does not seem able to sort through and find them all.
Thank you all for listening and for your advice.

 

[Sandisw]

I think I have figured out where things got messed up. My Dec. 2010 BWV reservation used part banked points and part current points. I did not know why they used 38 banked ones and the rest current, leaving some of my banked points.
Today I cancelled my Sept. 2011 reservation on current points and rebooked using points banked from the cancelled June reservation--they did this just to allocate my banked points. When I hung up, I checked and it had pulled points from next year because it showed less than my total as available to bank. I called and again asked that all banked points be used and she said she was doing it. Again my account showed it had not happened. On a third call she was able to use all banked points and my account now shows 150 available to bank next year.
I noticed the amount of banked points used the first 2 times was from banking done early in the year when I dropped nights at the end of a trip. I have separate banking numbers and it seems to just pull points from a banking and then use current points for the rest of the reservation. The previous BWV reservation had used 38 banked points which is also an amount banked at one time even though there were more banked another day that should have been used on the reservation.
I have spent about an hour each day the last 3 days with MS and don't think most are trained well. I have given up on getting the past corrected. I used to check my account to see that correct dates and points were posted, but now I will be checking next year's points to make sure they are not used instead of banked ones.
I will only lose one point--a friend and I will be going to Vero Beach with our sons when school gets out. I had cancelled my June reservation because we are going on a cruise instead--we will be back from Vero 8 days before we head to NY for the cruise.

Everyone really needs to watch your account if you bank points on more than one date because the computer does not seem able to sort through and find them all.
Thank you all for listening and for your advice.

I am glad that you at least are at a point where your Aug 2011 UY is all set and you can go forward from this point without too much damage from the past. Have a great trip!

 

[TisBit]

I am glad you figured it out and got it resolved. I am always aware of what points I have....current, banked and borrowed and make sure I tell MS that I have X number of banked points and I want to use them first, etc. Most MS personnel have already picked up on that and say they are already doing it, but it at least gets it out there for them to look for more points if they aren't seeing the same thing.

I don't think you can say that MS is lacking in training, they have to manage a lot of different situations going on with everyone's points...plus feel a crunch to get you helped and help the next guest so they don't have huge wait times on the phones. They are in a pretty high pressure job and details might get lost or there might be communication breakdowns....it is up to both parties of the conversation to help eleviate those communication problems.