My notes on the DVC focus group I went to (kinda long and probably boring, but...)

[KNWVIKING]

Please don't doubt what I'm telling you about AKL. It is absolutely fact. I'm not going to go digging thru "stuff" to find physical proof, I don't need to. It happened. As for CC and EE, well the only proof I have is the gazillion posts on this and several other boards. Maybe a little more tangible proof: CC has ended,EE is back.

 

[KNWVIKING]

"Due to restricted property access in order to allow our animal "neighbors" at Disney's Animal Kingdom Lodge plenty of time to adjust to their new home, the DVC pool hopping privilege will not be available when this new Walt Disney World Resort hotel opens later this spring. Check with Member Services for updates to this current policy."

Been two years, adjusting must be a slow process.

Of course, all other access restrictions have been lifted. When resort first opened, it was supposed to be soooo popular that only resort guests were allowed on property. But when it started looking like a ghost town they suddenly decided it was okay if we came for a visit. So I guess the animals adjusted to all the cars and buses driving in, but not to DVC'ers swimming in their pool. You know how animals can be, they are just so finicky.

 

[RobDoc]

Originally posted by KNWVIKING
Please don't doubt what I'm telling you about AKL. It is absolutely fact. I'm not going to go digging thru "stuff" to find physical proof, I don't need to. It happened. As for CC and EE, well the only proof I have is the gazillion posts on this and several other boards. Maybe a little more tangible proof: CC has ended,EE is back.

Absolute fact? On one hand you claim that (your memory of) what DVC published to explain no pool hopping at AKL is "absolute fact" (I wish I had that kind of a memory) and, on the other hand you claim that what DVC published about EE is totally false? Where do you draw the line between what is "fact" and what is a "LIE"- especially when you claim they both come from the same source?

Sometimes it's pretty hard to distinguish what is "absolutely fact" and what is "tangible proof"- especially when both come from the same source with no reference. (Are you suggesting that anything posted on "this and several other boards" is "proof" of anything? So if I reference anything I want from this (or any of several other boards)- you'll accept them as proof?)

The credibility of any argument based on such wishy-washy evidence is pretty questionable...but that is just my opinion and I'm happy to state that as an opinion- not a fact that I can prove (except that it IS posted on the internet).

 

[KNWVIKING]

You misunderstood. While I'm not certain of exactly how it was worded, I'm absolutely sure they used the animals as the reason.

As for CC and EE. My facts are what I read here & what I see actually happen. Disney slashes park hours for cost cutting. Then suddenly EE ends because WE want CC. If you monitor these boards, you'll remember that the vast majority thought that was a crook. Now all of a sudden EE is back and CC is gone. Why is that ? Didn't Disney's top secret data say we wanted CC ?

I'll ask you the same question the Capt' has chosen to ignore,(although I'm pretty sure I can guess your answer):

Do you believe the PH was not allowed at AKL to protect the animals ? Was the published reason fact or fiction ?

If I recall, back in '01 when this reason was given, the general consensus was a big "Yeah,Right".

 

[KNWVIKING]

"(Are you suggesting that anything posted on "this and several other boards" is "proof" of anything? So if I reference anything I want from this (or any of several other boards)- you'll accept them as proof?)"

No, but I have no trouble believing it when posters here state that when they were at SAB it was very crowded. But when I stated my experience to the contrary you insisted I give specific times and dates. I'm not going to assume Capt' statements are lies because we don't agree on a topic.I will never belittle a persons opinion or doubt their honesty.

 

[RobDoc]

Originally posted by KNWVIKING
"Due to restricted property access in order to allow our animal "neighbors" at Disney's Animal Kingdom Lodge plenty of time to adjust to their new home, the DVC pool hopping privilege will not be available when this new Walt Disney World Resort hotel opens later this spring. Check with Member Services for updates to this current policy."

Thanks for the reference, but where is the "LIE" in that statement?
Especially since this was published prior to the resort even being open? Are you doubting that there was restricted property access when AKL opened? (It definitely was restricted when it first opened.)

The statement that they are giving the animals "plenty of time to adjust to their new home" is hardly the same as your statement "What bothers me is that the reason given was to protect the animals. Protect them from what ? 2000 resort guests coming & going & swimming is okay, but I'm a threat to them." It doesn't seem that DVC ever stated that the animals ever needed to be protected from anyone.

It would appear that you have now admitted that your "fact" is actually just an exaggeration (DVC never stated that the prohibition was to protect the animals, as you stated).

 

[CaptainMidnight]

I did get a chuckle from your line about the poor animals taking two years to adjust, being those finicky animals....

 

[KNWVIKING]

That's just one statement I pulled off the board search. There were other similar statements. Why hasn't PH started at AKL ? Have they chosen to ignore PH ? Seems AKL got exactly what it wanted and used the animals for an excuse. You'll never believe Disney could do something like that, I do. We will never convince each other differently. Guess I really understand the Car #1 mentality now.Thank you and good nite.

 

[KNWVIKING]

"(DVC never stated that the prohibition was to protect the animals, as you stated)."

You're so right Doc. I said protect, they said adjust. I'm such a liar. Please forgive me.

 

[RobDoc]

Originally posted by KNWVIKING
"(Are you suggesting that anything posted on "this and several other boards" is "proof" of anything? So if I reference anything I want from this (or any of several other boards)- you'll accept them as proof?)"

No, but I have no trouble believing it when posters here state that when they were at SAB it was very crowded. But when I stated my experience to the contrary you insisted I give specific times and dates. I'm not going to assume Capt' statements are lies because we don't agree on a topic.I will never belittle a persons opinion or doubt their honesty.

Ahh, but I never doubted your observations about SAB. I've already stated in this thread that I'm sure there are times each day and during the year when the pool is not crowded- but that doesn't affect the validity of the decision to end pool hooping at SAB. (The decision was announced over a year ago in case you hadn't heard.) I was just trying to get a time frame for your observations- since pool occupancy can change by the minute and certainly over the course of the day. I was trying to see what time frame you used for your statements since the level of use at 10:00 am may have been different that what occured at 2:00pm and 5:00pm. You are the one challenging the decision to end hopping at SAB due to overcrowding- I was just trying to get the reference for your observations. I'm still confident that Disney has data to support their statement and decision. I was just trying to get you to show the basis your your claims and whether they were based on "fact" or opinion. There is a difference.

. I said protect, they said adjust. I'm such a liar.

You're the one who accused DVC of a "LIE". No one accused you of any such thing- only exaggerating to defend your position.

If you can find a statement from DVC in the last year suggesting that the AKL prohibition is to "protect the animals" or "allow them time to adjust to their new home", I'll agree with you 100% and will gladly make several calls to my contacts at DVC challenging such a policy statement and will gladly report everything here. The same goes for any confirmed data you have about SAB or EE.

 

[KNWVIKING]

Then what was this post of yours supposed to imply. ? Trust ?

******"So, you sat at the pool all day, every day counting guests? How many were there at 10:30am? 11:15am? 1:30pm? 3:00pm? 5:00pm? What was the usage during the days before and the days after your stake out? So, because you observed a few minutes on one day (or a few minutes for a few days) your assessment is that the pool should have been open to anyone? Have you provided your detailed data to BC/YC/BCV/DVC for consideration or is this just some anecdotal evidence for an internet bulletin board? "*****


"(The decision was announced over a year ago in case you hadn't heard.) "

While I don't know what that comment has to do with this thread, I'm actually glad you brought it up,( and yes,I know when they announced it). They announced the end of PH toSAB before BCV was even open. What data did they have to support ending it ? The first guest hadn't even checked in to the resort,much less jumped in the pool. Sounds like Y&B or whoever ASSUMED the pool would be too crowded.

". I was just trying to get you to show the basis your your claims and whether they were based on "fact" or opinion. There is a difference."

By and large everything on this board is opinion. My "facts" are what I observed several times on three seperate occasions. You choose to not believe my "facts", but you had no trouble accepting the "facts" from posters who observed crowds.

"If you can find a statement from DVC in the last year suggesting that the AKL prohibition is to "protect the animals" or "allow them time to adjust to their new home", I'll agree with you 100% "

Doc, when we- these boards- read that statement in VM, along with a lot of the "yeah,right"s was optomism that the statement left the door open for PH in the future after " our animal "neighbors" at Disney's Animal Kingdom Lodge plenty of time to adjust to their new home". But what has happened is all other restricted access has been lifted except PH with no explanation. All DVC states now is (SOMETHING TO THE EFFECT OF, NOT AN EXACT QUOTE) that PH is not allowed at AKL.


"only exaggerating to defend your position."

Where did I exaggerate ?

BTW, Good morning.

 

[RobDoc]

Originally posted by KNWVIKING
While I don't know what that comment has to do with this thread, I'm actually glad you brought it up,( and yes,I know when they announced it). They announced the end of PH toSAB before BCV was even open. What data did they have to support ending it ?

You really should read this entire thread, as most of your current questions have already been answered, but to save you some time:
Disney already has data showing the daily utilization of the SAB pool (including the number of pool hoppers). They also know exactly how many guests were checked into YC/BC during those days. Thus, they can apply a ratio of pool usage per day based on resort occupancy. They also knew the number of rooms being added with BCV and could very simply apply a similar ratio for the added rooms- thus giving them a very accurate estimation of the likely pool utilization for each day of the year. In their estimation, the additional guests added with BCV would strain the comfortable limits of the pool and the decision to stop hopping at that pool was mathematical. Some have suggested it was a sales ploy, but I have no data or information to support or deny that.

The SAB pool was originaly built to allow a certain comfortable occupancy for guests at YC/BC. When DVC began, the decision was made that the pool could support a few more guests without exceeding that comfortable occupancy. With the additional growth of DVC and now, the additional growth of the YC/BC/BCV complex, the decision has been made to stop poolhopping. I'll admit that I don't have the data to support those comments, but I've been told that the resort does, in fact, have the data. I'm willing to accept that as "fact"- especially since I also know that pool hopping is something that can be changed/ended without discussion.

Then what was this post of yours supposed to imply. ? Trust ?

By and large everything on this board is opinion. My "facts" are what I observed several times on three seperate occasions. You choose to not believe my "facts", but you had no trouble accepting the "facts" from posters who observed crowds.

As I already stated (twice), I do believe that there are moments each day and even whole days when SAB is not crowded, but don't see how that "fact" invalidates the decision to stop pool hopping there. My questions to you were directed at seeing the extent of your observations- (were you basing it on a 10 minute period on one day or throughout a week-long stay). You never made an attempt to support your method of data collection si I choose to not weigh the data as enough to contradict the decision made to end hopping. Those who chose to contibute their observations of overcrowding are consistent with the final outcome already. All of these reports are anectdotal (both for crowded and uncrowded) and I'm still certain that Disney does have data to support the decision (probably a daily/hourly The individual report carries no more or less weight than any other.

If you look out the window at 6:00am and see the sun shining but, 10 minutes later, a rainstorm lasting the rest of the day comes through, how would you describe the weather for that day- sunny or rainy?

All DVC states now is (SOMETHING TO THE EFFECT OF, NOT AN EXACT QUOTE) that PH is not allowed at AKL.

What more do they need to state?

Where did I exaggerate ?

"Of course,if you truely believe the animals out on the savana were endangered by my being at the swimming pool, then please accept my apology and ignore my posts."

"Please don't doubt what I'm telling you about AKL. It is absolutely fact. I'm not going to go digging thru "stuff" to find physical proof, I don't need to. "

You also stated that DVC announced the AKL had no pool hooping to "protect the animals".

Since you've been unable or unwilling to support these as "facts". I'll assume you did exaggerate.

 

[KNWVIKING]

*****"Of course,if you truely believe the animals out on the savana were endangered by my being at the swimming pool, then please accept my apology and ignore my posts."***

Exaggeration ? Where ?

***"Please don't doubt what I'm telling you about AKL. It is absolutely fact. I'm not going to go digging thru "stuff" to find physical proof, I don't need to. "***

The poster was doubting that AKL used the animals as an excuss to not allow PH. I'm quilty of being lazy,but telling him to accept asfact that they did isn't exaggerating.

***You also stated that DVC announced the AKL had no pool hooping to "protect the animals". ***

Again, I misquoted a statement I read two years ago. I said protect, they said adjust. Hardly an exaggeration.

**** Since you've been unable or unwilling to support these as "facts". I'll assume you did exaggerate."****

You classify that as exaggeration ? I supplied the facts I witnessed.

 

[RobDoc]

Originally posted by KNWVIKING
*****"Of course,if you truely believe the animals out on the savana were endangered by my being at the swimming pool, then please accept my apology and ignore my posts."***

Exaggeration ? Where ?

DVC never said that- you were quoting yourself there. Please show me where DVC ever said animals were in danger by you being at the swimming pool? (exaggeration)

***"Please don't doubt what I'm telling you about AKL. It is absolutely fact. I'm not going to go digging thru "stuff" to find physical proof, I don't need to. "***

The poster was doubting that AKL used the animals as an excuss to not allow PH. I'm quilty of being lazy,but telling him to accept asfact that they did isn't exaggerating.

DVC never said that pool hopping was eliminated to protect the animals- as you had stated. Here you are insisting that they did state that and that you don't need to document your statement. (exaggeration)

***You also stated that DVC announced the AKL had no pool hooping to "protect the animals". ***

Again, I misquoted a statement I read two years ago. I said protect, they said adjust. Hardly an exaggeration.

Your "misquote" changed the whole meaning of the DVC statement and that makes it an exaggeration, IMO. They didn't even simply say "adjust"- they said it was to give the animals time to adjust to their new surroundings. Big difference, IMO.

**** Since you've been unable or unwilling to support these as "facts". I'll assume you did exaggerate."****

You classify that as exaggeration ? I supplied the facts I witnessed.

You didn't supply many facts- mostly your own opinion, based apparently on a few minutes of observation. How many were using the pool while you were there? How many more could it hold before becoming "crowded"? (You didn't answer my question about the rainy day either.) It's fine to offer opinion, but it is nice to identify it as such. You did supply the exact quote from DVC about AKL and it was considerably different that what had previously been presented as a fact, IMO.

A fact would be "The pool capacity is 150. When I was there at 10:00am- there were only 107 in the pool."

An opinion would be "The pool didn't look crowded at all when I walked past on the Boardwalk."

Oh... and "Good morning vike"!!

 

[KNWVIKING]

Doc, My forehead is sore from smacking it against yours. It is obvious we are both to bullheaded to concede anything of importance. I'm sure will tangle again pretty soon, I smell an OKW pool slide thread starting to brew. Have a nice day.

 

[Nanajo1]

I keep asking myself ,"Why don't I unsubscribe to this thread?" I tell myself maybe somone will have something else from the focus groups to report. This justifies my voyeur side. This discusion is addictive.

 

[CaptainMidnight]

Does anyone live near VINELAND,NJ and know where KNWVIKING lives or could get in touch with him and check on him? I haven't seen a post on this thread in almost 2 days and I'm worried he might be hurt or unable to type. I just want to make sure he's OK..... I hope he didn't try to crash some local pool where they might not be as accomodating.....

 

[KNWVIKING]

but your concern is noted and appriciated.

Actually I was in Boston for my DS's graduation from Northeastern. Just got home this evening, tomorrow morning we fly down to Orlando for kind of a last family vacation. He'll be heading back up to Boston to begin his life up there, youngest DS will be heading back to college in Rochester NY in Sept to start his 3rd year and chances are he won't becoming home very much any more.

We'll have the laptops handy and I'll be checking in occasionally, just in case an OKW slide thread starts