My most shockingly, un-Disney moment - Courtesy of the DVC

[HGLightlyj]

I talked with DVC rep Gib McCain for several years before I purchased a resale. He was very nice, explained everything to me - never got a call from him when I went home. After I bought my resale all the DVC reps I encountered were very nice to me. Never had a problem - but it has been several years since I toured models. Gib sends me promotional material about add-on opportunities from time to time.

 

[TisBit]

I agree with everything here except the bolded, but that's not the point. If your standard is "some element of truth in the statement," that's a pretty sad commentary. There's some element of truth in pretty much any statement.

Further, the suggestion that BLT prices are going to increase by 20% (so, say, to $120pp resale) and SSR prices decrease by a further 50% (so, say, to $30pp resale) -- over any time horizon -- is absurd under any scenario in which 7 month bookings remain possible.

All that I think I was trying to say (and Dean as well) is that this guide did not lie or say anything untruthful per se. He was speculating about the future, same as you or me. Even if you throw in a word or two more to his statements, it can change everything. Truth is that SSR resale is already down, depending on what the OP pays, it could go down, etc.

No, there is some statements that are completely false and some guides have been caught saying them, unfortunately this is not that case. If you peruse these boards to perspective buyers many DVC members have made these exact same statements.....are they being untruthful.

Look, no one has defended the guide and said this is acceptable. Truth is, we expect DVC to be better then a normal timeshare. This guide seems to have crossed the line and could hurt the reputation of DVC. But, even this action is nothing compared to what you normally see in timeshare presentation. A normal presentation is much more then a salesman and one manager. You usually need to go through at least 3-4 people, all pushing a hard sale, in order to get out of the room.

 

[Dean]

I agree with everything here except the bolded, but that's not the point. If your standard is "some element of truth in the statement," that's a pretty sad commentary. There's some element of truth in pretty much any statement.

Further, the suggestion that BLT prices are going to increase by 20% (so, say, to $120pp resale) and SSR prices decrease by a further 50% (so, say, to $30pp resale) -- over any time horizon -- is absurd under any scenario in which 7 month bookings remain possible.

Compared to retail before discounts, I doubt we'll see any appreciation but if so, it's almost certain to be very little. However, the resale prices between BLT and the existing resorts is likely to separate further. Actually, IMO, there is a lot of truth to the statements. Certainly they're all a stretch but not a big one. I commented on the areas where I felt the statements were off in numbers but not in principle. As far as timeshare sales rhetorrhic, these are pretty mild on the BS curve and that's likely why they aren't a big deal to me. Those that wear the glasses and drink the koolaid will likely find them varying degrees of outrageous.

 

[gkrykewy]

the resale prices between BLT and the existing resorts is likely to separate further.

I suppose we will see; I respect your experience with this stuff, but I just don't see how that's possible unless the ability to book at non-home resorts is meaningfully impaired. BLT appears to be following a similar post-construction resale price trajectory as AKV after one year. There will always be a "new hotness" that commands a premium before reverting to the mean- again, unless the rules are changed.

 

[burnsoc]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember reading maybe 1 or 2 years ago how Disney adjusted the numbers and commission pay of DVC guides. It seems since this time they've gone the route of more traditional timeshares. As usual I find Dean's observations to be logical and in line with my opinion. My "guide" was never anything more to me than a salesperson. To the Op, I'm glad you're passed this nonsense and enjoy SSR.

 

[tjkraz]

I doubt anyone knows DVC's close rate but I'm sure it's much higher than the industry average though likely not for the reasons most here think. First, they don't pressure people into touring (at least not so far) so those touring are a better prospect than say Wyndham or Bluegreen, they don't tour current members which would have a lower rate as well, they are generally touring people who have already made some investment in Disney and/or have some interest and they have the parks as a draw for future possible trips. IMO, DVC would have an even higher close rate than they do now if they employed more traditional sales pressures and that would far outweigh those turned off by such tactics who did not buy.

I was thinking along the same lines. Those touring DVC accommodations are more willing participants--they are not folks who took a "free stay" offer and then must attend a mandatory sales session. Also DVC prospects are both financially and emotionally invested in Disney from the start.

Those factors likely lead to a higher closing ratio. However, applying a little pressure certainly cannot hurt the numbers.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember reading maybe 1 or 2 years ago how Disney adjusted the numbers and commission pay of DVC guides.

The change that became public knowledge affected the Cast Members who staff the theme park and resort booths. I believe they are called Advance Sales Associates or ASAs. These people are not salespeople--their sole responsibility is to get non-members to agree to a tour.

That said, it stands to reason that Guides are expected to put up better numbers than they were 10-15 years ago when DVC was a little niche unit of TWDC.

 

[burnsoc]

The change that became public knowledge affected the Cast Members who staff the theme park and resort booths. I believe they are called Advance Sales Associates or ASAs. These people are not salespeople--their sole responsibility is to get non-members to agree to a tour.

That said, it stands to reason that Guides are expected to put up better numbers than they were 10-15 years ago when DVC was a little niche unit of TWDC.

Thanks tjkraz!

 

[DonnaL]

It really makes me sad to hear this kind of thing about DVC guides. Yes.....I know they are timeshare salespeople and they DO have a product to sell, but, IMO the most important thing that used to set DVC heads above other timeshare sales people was their low key sales approach and tactics and it makes me sad every time I hear one of these horror stories. I really appreciated the way we were treated by our guide way back in 2001 when we first purchased and again when we added on in 2003. I worked in direct sales myself for 12 years and loved it, but, I treated potential customers with respect and was never pushy.......because I personally liked and enjoyed the product I represented and always felt that was the best possible sales approach......just showing my customers and potential customers how much I myself enjoyed my product. I always felt that was the way we were treated when we purchased. Just hearing this story.......makes me wonder exactly HOW MUCH has changed within the DVC organization as they have continued to grow........have DVC guides truly become just like the "other" timeshare sales people and why have they become the way they have.......I believe these are some of the questions that need to be answered by DVC upper management.......since if this truly is the case......then DVC upper management needs to step up and accept responsibility for at least some of the actions of these so called guides.....

 

[SabresFan]

We took the tour in July, didn't buy then, and have just made a purchase of an SSR resale contract (still waiting on the ROFR process). I will say our guide was completely professional, very limited pressure (he did say our incentives expired on the last day we were checking out of the Poly this summer), never said anything I would consider false or even stretching the truth (and I've done A LOT of research between July and now, although only cursory research before July). So there are still good guides there. I'd be happy to ask for him to be assigned to us if our resale does go through as our guide in the future.

 

[dianeschlicht]

We took the tour in July, didn't buy then, and have just made a purchase of an SSR resale contract (still waiting on the ROFR process). I will say our guide was completely professional, very limited pressure (he did say our incentives expired on the last day we were checking out of the Poly this summer), never said anything I would consider false or even stretching the truth (and I've done A LOT of research between July and now, although only cursory research before July). So there are still good guides there. I'd be happy to ask for him to be assigned to us if our resale does go through as our guide in the future.

In all likelihood, you wont have to request him as your guide, because he probably already is assigned to you.

 

[TisBit]

It really makes me sad to hear this kind of thing about DVC guides. Yes.....I know they are timeshare salespeople and they DO have a product to sell, but, IMO the most important thing that used to set DVC heads above other timeshare sales people was their low key sales approach and tactics and it makes me sad every time I hear one of these horror stories. I really appreciated the way we were treated by our guide way back in 2001 when we first purchased and again when we added on in 2003. I worked in direct sales myself for 12 years and loved it, but, I treated potential customers with respect and was never pushy.......because I personally liked and enjoyed the product I represented and always felt that was the best possible sales approach......just showing my customers and potential customers how much I myself enjoyed my product. I always felt that was the way we were treated when we purchased. Just hearing this story.......makes me wonder exactly HOW MUCH has changed within the DVC organization as they have continued to grow........have DVC guides truly become just like the "other" timeshare sales people and why have they become the way they have.......I believe these are some of the questions that need to be answered by DVC upper management.......since if this truly is the case......then DVC upper management needs to step up and accept responsibility for at least some of the actions of these so called guides.....

I am sure the economy and the growing number of guides/salesmen they have employed has affected this as well. I think up until a few years ago, DVC mostly employed people from around WDW, our guide for example was a CM before going to DVD as a guide. I am sure as they have grown and experienced salesmen/realtors that have lost their jobs lately in that area are looking for work, they are being picked up by DVC. So, in general you probably have a lot of people that don't know much about Disney working those positions. But, this is just speculation on how it seems the climate with "some" of the guides have changed.

 

[Dean]

I suppose we will see; I respect your experience with this stuff, but I just don't see how that's possible unless the ability to book at non-home resorts is meaningfully impaired. BLT appears to be following a similar post-construction resale price trajectory as AKV after one year. There will always be a "new hotness" that commands a premium before reverting to the mean- again, unless the rules are changed.

To be more clear, I'm talking $$$ not % as SSR is already at close to $60 a point it appears.

 

[hitman007]

I hate to be the one to point out the obvious but don't you think that perhaps it was a bad idea to go there and tell them you bought a resale? Those sales people are commission only. It really is hard for them to take time out of their day to meet with someone that has basically said "we bought elsewhere and someone else got the commission but we want to waste your time showing us the unit while the guy who earned the commission is home having dinner. " Of course the way he handled it was poor but he is only human. Maybe he had no sales that month and had a mortgage payment due or a car payment or his child needed glasses and he was under stress already. It wasn't personal since he didn't even know you until you walked in the door. Also what you quoted him as saying about SSR was accurate! Perhaps the way he said it was harsh but I see nothing that you listed that isn't true. Hopefully Disney will send you some sort of "forgive me" award and they should. I am just saying we all have a breaking point.

 

[Candy Orlando]

Walt Disney loved horses. He was a great polo player. Saratoga Springs Resort and Spa is a reflection of him. He would be proud of it. The theme is perfectly elegant. Of all of the Vacation Club Resorts, it is equal to the Grand Floridian because of it's chosen theme and decor.

 

[Dean]

I hate to be the one to point out the obvious but don't you think that perhaps it was a bad idea to go there and tell them you bought a resale?

To me it would depend on how it was done. In this case the person apparently was roped in to a tour they didn't want or need, just wanted to see the models which are supposed to be for members only though they obviously don't monitor it very well and I'm surprised that someone didn't mention the option along the way.

However, companies tour people all the time who say they're not going to buy (some do though) and in many cases, repeatedly when they haven't bought retail in the past even if they are resale members. Often they pay the person $75-125 or more to tour knowing this info. They set the rules and as long as one is honest, no reason for the one touring to be concerned about how these decisions are made or the economics of the system or the guide related to their tour. Whether it's appropriate to tour once you know the ropes (the OP didn't it appears) is another 20 page discussion with clear lines drawn between various participants. I wonder if we'll see DVC go more that route, IF they establish a distinction betweenn retail and resale, I bet we will.

 

[keishashadow]

I was thinking along the same lines. Those touring DVC accommodations are more willing participants--they are not folks who took a "free stay" offer and then must attend a mandatory sales session. Also DVC prospects are both financially and emotionally invested in Disney from the start.

Those factors likely lead to a higher closing ratio. However, applying a little pressure certainly cannot hurt the numbers.



The change that became public knowledge affected the Cast Members who staff the theme park and resort booths. I believe they are called Advance Sales Associates or ASAs. These people are not salespeople--their sole responsibility is to get non-members to agree to a tour.

That said, it stands to reason that Guides are expected to put up better numbers than they were 10-15 years ago when DVC was a little niche unit of TWDC.

being the business(and semi considering the job if i ever retire to FL), i've chatted up the booth reps, most recently end of July @ ASMo with a gent who was a retired broker from NYC. He said getting hired as full-fledged guide is a hard gig to get, even with a lot of experience. Apparently, many toil in the outposts hoping to overshoot their quota (he wouldn't divulge what it was) to try get a leg up in their application status.

 

[Dean]

being the business(and semi considering the job if i ever retire to FL), i've chatted up the booth reps, most recently end of July @ ASMo with a gent who was a retired broker from NYC. He said getting hired as full-fledged guide is a hard gig to get, even with a lot of experience. Apparently, many toil in the outposts hoping to overshoot their quota (he wouldn't divulge what it was) to try get a leg up in their application status.

As a group the ASA's are too passive. DVC must train them to be that way. I believe DVD has made a mistake in not touring current members who they could easily get to buy additional points retail in many cases. Other companies call them OPC's (Off Premises Contacts) and they are usually independent contractors who get strict commissions. In most cases they are only paid on whether they get bodies, not the quality of the propect to purchase.

 

[hitman007]

Walt Disney loved horses. He was a great polo player. Saratoga Springs Resort and Spa is a reflection of him. He would be proud of it. The theme is perfectly elegant. Of all of the Vacation Club Resorts, it is equal to the Grand Floridian because of it's chosen theme and decor.

WOW! SSR equal to the Grand Floridian? Have you been to the Grand Floridian? I must say I find your enthusiasm of SSR to be commendable. As long as you love the resort, thats all that matters!

 

[csharpwv]

WOW - yeah - that is some experience you guys had!

We own three contracts - two were purchased through DVC - the last one through resale.

They both have their benefits - and among the biggest benefits of buying directly through DVC is.... service.

I would like to comment on the 'status' of Saratoga.

Out first DVC stay ever was at Saratoga - and we were a little disappointed in the service. We had to change KTTW cards several times because of mistakes - there was a maint. issue with the room that took SEVERAL calls to correct - and finally had to speak to a manager. BUT - things were eventually resolved and the stay was good.

Since then - looking back - the bad experience was due to poorly trained staff ... on all accounts (Front Desk, Housekeeping, and Maint.)
But as far as the QUALITY of Saratoga - I think what others have said about the resort having an touch of elegance and sophistication is very true.

While it does not have a theme that 'transports you' like Wilderness Lodge, Animal Kingdom etc - it has a theme that is casual yet sophisticated - and not over the top - not cheap feeling - and not tacky or gaudy.

We own a small contract at Saratoga - and one day we will book a tree house villa for a relaxation vacation - or a grand villa for a family stay.

But in all reality it only makes sense that OKW and Saratoga are consistently the LAST resorts to fill up. They are LARGE resorts - and from what I understand, sales never officially 'ended' at Saratoga - it was being finished just as the economy started to soften up some - and the other resorts WERE and ARE more attractive as home resorts - IMHO. If you can pretty much get what you want at Saratoga at 7 months - why own there???? COST - it's a very affordable resort to own!

Was the Guide out of line? Yes - to a certain extent. Was he rude - YES.

If I had been that guide I would have taken a few moments to explain the add on process - and encourage you to 'dream' and think about where you would own next - and send you out to see BLT or AKV. If I had been that guide - I would also have explained to you the incentives that are currently available - and how they are a big advantage over buying resale.

We make our add on decisions based on incentives - we have reaped the benefits of 8 nights at a DVC resort - and a 7 night cruise.
BOTH where incentives!

Should you write a letter - I would say so. Should you be soured by the experience - I would say NO!

There were two Vacation Club Guide positions posted this spring - and with 10 years of sales/customer service experience on my resume - I applied. However - I really think that my lack of real estate experience and being that we would have had to move to Orlando - I didn't even get an interview. Do I wish I worked for DVC - YES - do I want a 100% commission job in this economy.... NOOOOO!

So.... it's all in God's plan!

 

[keishashadow]

As a group the ASA's are too passive. DVC must train them to be that way. I believe DVD has made a mistake in not touring current members who they could easily get to buy additional points retail in many cases. Other companies call them OPC's (Off Premises Contacts) and they are usually independent contractors who get strict commissions. In most cases they are only paid on whether they get bodies, not the quality of the propect to purchase.

I believe they are trying to project a very casual, friendly vs actual sales persona w/the initial contacts who are instructed to be vague as to $ details.

Im always puzzled when I hear prospects describe the 'hard-sell' atmosphere of DVC. Unless things have changed dramatically since we spoke to a Guide, the sales pitch is not at all comparable to swimming with the sharks (aka full-blown timeshare presentation).