My FP+ Park Strategy WILL SAVE ME ALMOST $20,000!!!

[MrInfinity]

I'm on cold medicine and foggy, so forgive me. . . Why do AP's turn Disney into a Six Flags? I'm guessing it turns them into day guests vs resort guests, but I'm not sure how that negatively affects the parks themselves (this is assuming you meant a comparison to six flags as a slam, which is how I took it)

Lake's riddle was cute. I hadn't heard it before, but enjoyed the moral.

Basically it's saying that the AP holder is the lest profitable guest. A guest that visits to ride lots, buy the minimum food, and no souvenirs. Like a teenager at Six Flags. To that, I'd agree.

You have to look at rides like resources. You have X to give out in a year. Each one you give out can generate a certain amount of cash.

An AP holder might pay $500/year and visit 10 days riding 12 rides per visit, or consume 120 rides for $500. Disney made $4.17 per riding of the rides it operated.

A resort guest might pay $5000/year and visit for 7 days, riding only 6 rides per day. $5000/42 is $119 per riding of the rides it operated.

So if Disney can sell a riding on one of its headliners for $119, then all the ridings they sell for $4.17 are monies lost. Now this is an exaggeration for effect and could vary greatly from person to person. But it is the basic math. Disney wants to covet resort stayers who want to visit for a week, stay in a resort, eat in the resort, shop in the resort, and get them on a few rides so their experience is magical and they want to do it again next year. They don't care that someone used to live locally, come for the morning, and rides 24 rides in a day via FP-. This ex-FP- commando was simply not a profitable customer. Rasulo outright stated in his last call that their core visitor base was the 8-day resort guest. Not surprising. Even Universal is trying to covet the resort guest and get out of the day-pass business cuz it's the least profitable way to dish out a company's rides.

Using rides to sell rooms differentiates a resort from a day-park.

 

[mom2rtk]

Mom, why is it so hard to adjust? Yes, we had it down to a science. It was great. But it isn't "not-great" now. Really. FP+ works fine. If I can take my family of 6, and ride tons of rides in a day during moderate to busy times including all headliners multiple times -- then seriously what is the deal. It's really fine. It's just a ride-queuing system. And it has some pretty awesome benefits that offset the changes.

Yeah. It happens to most benefit those people who can figure out how to master a system, and therefore be one step ahead of the masses. Like... Oh yeah... us! Most of the Dis! The company we sit among are the best tourers who have figured out the best ways to use FP-. Why is it so inconceivable to think about finding similar ways to master FP+?

We love repeating headliners, and we love spontaneity. That makes FP+ 0 for 2 in my book. No matter how great I am at mastering the system, my odds of repeating headliners is vastly lower with FP+ that it was with legacy FP.

 

[Laketravis]

You really need to work on comprehension. I though (sic) Eanes schools were suppose to be good. If you said you saved $20k, and I said the $25k savings was the "majority" of your savings, then I already took into account your $14k food budget. Otherwise I would have said it was "more than" your projected savings.

Ah, see? Eanes schools ARE very good (it's "thought", not "though") and that's why I comprehended your statement exactly as you worded it:

"I assumed your three family members are all adults, so the dining plan math is: 3 people times $60 times 28 days times 5 years = $25,200. There's where the majority of your "savings" comes from."

As $25,200 actually exceeds the amount saved, one can only deduce that you meant the entire cost of the meal plan constitutes the majority of savings. Which, as I've already pointed out, is wrong. We will save $80 a day by not purchasing DDP and still allocating $100 a day for meals. We will save $93 a day by not staying at CSR ($200 a night) but instead at a 2 bedroom condo ($107 a night).

Last time I checked, a $93 savings is greater than $80 in savings. Therefore, a majority of the savings is derived from the lower lodging expense.

Love you too.

 

[mom2rtk]

I won't argue that one can accomplish the same *number* of rides, but I do believe that whether or not that number comprises the *same* rides is up for debate.

For example, we may have had a similar number of rides done at DHS this year, but instead of 2 rides on TSMM we had 1 (fp+) for tsmm, and then 1 LMA. Instead of 3 rides on star tours, we did 1 (sb), and saw Indiana Jones and characterpalooza instead of 2 other rides on ST. Why not a second ride on tsmm or star tours? No fp+ left, and long stand by lines - not the conditions we experienced under similar crowd levels in previous years.

So yes, we did the same, or similar, # of things, and we DID enjoy them - but it was not the same experience as pre-fp+. We altered our touring to adjust for the differences and enjoyed ourselves (characterpalooza rocked!), but did miss the opportunities we used to have as well.

It might even be possible to get the same number of FPs as we used to under legacy FP. But most reports show that headliner access after the first 3 is sketchy at best, and should not be counted on. Now what you are most likely to get after the first 3 are things that previously didn't even require a FP.

 

[Laketravis]

It might even be possible to get the same number of FPs as we used to under legacy FP. But most reports show that headliner access after the first 3 is sketchy at best, and should not be counted on. Now what you are most likely to get after the first 3 are things that previously didn't even require a FP.

I think that's when the strengths of FP+ come into play now that SB times are consistently higher; it's both the cause and the cure. Reserve those three in the afternoon or evening and literally walk onto them. Take advantage of anything else that might have reasonable SB lines, stick around for a parade and some fireworks, see ya tomorrow. And I don't have to stay onsite or eat at WDW or get up early for rope drop to do that. So what dawned on me is that is how our touring was starting to turn out anyway, even more so with our having to go during busy times and moving from on-site to off-site wouldn't effect that and we could complete our fix each day at another park system and save five figures to boot.

 

[Angel Ariel]

It might even be possible to get the same number of FPs as we used to under legacy FP. But most reports show that headliner access after the first 3 is sketchy at best, and should not be counted on. Now what you are most likely to get after the first 3 are things that previously didn't even require a FP.

I was thinking about FP+ booking combinations on my drive to the grocery store a little bit ago, and that same thought came to my mind.

it makes me wonder if maybe we should book DD's FP+ for headliners..then I use her MB to ride a 2nd time with DH and my nephews who would use the RS pass we pick up for headliners she's too short for (pretty much all of them) to ride a second time. Book the FP+ to be done by 12/1ish, and then try to get 4th FP+ for rides she can join us on (the things that previously didn't require FP)...

It's an interesting theory...I'm not sure what I think about it, but it's wormed it's way into the possibility list.

 

[mom2rtk]

I think that's when the strengths of FP+ come into play now that SB times are consistently higher; it's both the cause and the cure. Reserve those three in the afternoon or evening and literally walk onto them. Take advantage of anything else that might have reasonable SB lines, stick around for a parade and some fireworks, see ya tomorrow. And I don't have to stay onsite or eat at WDW or get up early for rope drop to do that. So what dawned on me is that is how our touring was starting to turn out anyway, even more so with our having to go during busy times and moving from on-site to off-site wouldn't effect that and we could complete our fix each day at another park system and save five figures to boot.

Perhaps Disney really does hope we will all add more days in an effort to get more FP+ slots. If I can get less done each day (you know, of the things I want to do, not of what Disney wants me to do) then that seems like the only answer. But once I'm put in the spot where I need to evaluate that alternative, then I need to evaluate ALL the alternatives. I still think the optimal trip to WDW in the age of FP+ is to stay onsite at US. Start each day there with FOTL in their parks. Split by lunch, eat somewhere offsite, then head over to Disney for a quick 3 plus maybe a parade or fireworks, and call it a night. Back to your room at US and repeat the next day. That leaves Disney with a lot smaller slice of my pie.

 

[mom2rtk]

I was thinking about FP+ booking combinations on my drive to the grocery store a little bit ago, and that same thought came to my mind.

it makes me wonder if maybe we should book DD's FP+ for headliners..then I use her MB to ride a 2nd time with DH and my nephews who would use the RS pass we pick up for headliners she's too short for (pretty much all of them) to ride a second time. Book the FP+ to be done by 12/1ish, and then try to get 4th FP+ for rides she can join us on (the things that previously didn't require FP)...

It's an interesting theory...I'm not sure what I think about it, but it's wormed it's way into the possibility list.

I absolutely would do just that.

 

[MrInfinity]

I won't argue that one can accomplish the same *number* of rides, but I do believe that whether or not that number comprises the *same* rides is up for debate.
instead of 2 rides on TSMM we had 1 (fp+) for tsmm, and then 1 LMA. Instead of 3 rides on star tours, we did 1 (sb), and saw Indiana Jones and characterpalooza instead of 2 other rides on ST. Why not a second ride on tsmm or star tours? No fp+ left, and long stand by lines - not the conditions we experienced under similar crowd levels in previous years.

Hi Ariel,
So you were able to do LMA but not TSMM? Why not just do TSMM in the time you saw LMA? It takes forever to get into and out of that theater... even an hour wait on TSMM you'd have been no worse off.

And Star Tours vs IJ and Characterpalooza? When we were there for SWW opening day, Star Tours was a consistent half-hour. i.e. not a huge wait. Surely doable in the time one could be seated for, watch, and leave IJ. Ditto for Characterpalooza.

So you're willing to do these other things in the same amount of time, but not do what you actually want. I don't get that. Why not just do what you actually want to do there?

 

[Laketravis]

Perhaps Disney really does hope we will all add more days in an effort to get more FP+ slots. If I can get less done each day (you know, of the things I want to do, not of what Disney wants me to do) then that seems like the only answer. But once I'm put in the spot where I need to evaluate that alternative, then I need to evaluate ALL the alternatives. I still think the optimal trip to WDW in the age of FP+ is to stay onsite at US. Start each day there with FOTL in their parks. Split by lunch, eat somewhere offsite, then head over to Disney for a quick 3 plus maybe a parade or fireworks, and call it a night. Back to your room at US and repeat the next day. That leaves Disney with a lot smaller slice of my pie.

I'm going to have to look into that. Last month I think we paid roughly $250 a night to stay at RPR but that was over New Years and was peak pricing; I haven't seen yet what sort of AP discounts they offer. At that price we lose the lodging savings but the food expense could still be less. I was impressed by the choices CityWalk had to offer, many of them reasonably priced - but then International Drive isn't far away and has no shortage of great places to eat.

 

[Cormoran]

LT, I just don't understand why you're being called obnoxious. I am constantly being told by FP+ proponents that FP+ is here to stay and everyone needs to adapt or go elsewhere. So isn't that what you're doing, adapting? I think it's great that you have found a way for this to work for your family especially when it saves money.

It wouldn't work for us, since we couldn't take advantage of annual passes. But we have figured out a way to save money on our Disney vacations by visiting DLR instead of WDW. We drive there instead of flying and we stay off site. Also the offsite restaurants are great and within walking distance, so we don't have to dine in the parks. Overall a DLR vacation costs about 1/3 the price of a WDW vacation and our park experience is not managed by a bunch of reservations and our access to attractions is not rationed. It's just a simpler vacation, and I love that most of all. Planning a WDW vacation used to be a fun, even if it was a bit of a hassle. But now I feel that planning a WDW vacation is more hassle than fun!

 

[Angel Ariel]

Hi Ariel,
So you were able to do LMA but not TSMM? Why not just do TSMM in the time you saw LMA? It takes forever to get into and out of that theater... even an hour wait on TSMM you'd have been no worse off.

And Star Tours vs IJ and Characterpalooza? When we were there for SWW opening day, Star Tours was a consistent half-hour. i.e. not a huge wait. Surely doable in the time one could be seated for, watch, and leave IJ. Ditto for Characterpalooza.

So you're willing to do these other things in the same amount of time, but not do what you actually want. I don't get that. Why not just do what you actually want to do there?

First, let me be clear - we *enjoyed* what we did. I didn't say we "didn't want to do them" - just that, given previous availability/options, our choices would have been different. DH enjoys LMA and wanted to see it one more time as we expect it to close, possibly even before our November trip. He felt the same way about IJ.

That said, we spent *more* time in DHS on this trip than on our previous trips, and got about the same # of things done. On previous trips, with the amount of time we spent in DHS on this trip, we would have been able to do everything we DID do on this trip *as well as* the things we didn't get to do.

But now, to answer your questions:

#1 - TSMM was well over a 1 hr wait. Closer to 90 mins, IIRC. We had a RNRC FP+ whose window was ending before that time. (We lucked out with a glitch before our trip that allowed us to book both TSMM and RNRC). We left LMA early in order to get to RNRC before the window ended. We would not have gotten through TSMM's SB line in time.

#2 - Basically it came down to - why wait spend that much time waiting when we could do other attractions in that waiting time? It was 3:15, our 3 FP+ had just been used up, and we went to get a 4th FP+. TBH, we expected to see ST availability. We have *never* seen ST run out of FP. But there wasn't any availability. IJ was available for a 4pm show, so we took it - remembered about characterpalooza starting around 3:30 and headed over there with my friend while DH went to IJ ahead of us. My friend and I made it to IJ right at 4pm. Characterpalooza was *well* worth it.

Had ST had a FP+ available when we checked FP+ at 3:15, we would have taken it and headed over to ST then - but there was no availability (has never happened to us before), and we were trying to get as much done as we could as we wanted to leave the park not too long 6 (wanted to see Osbourne lights for a few mins at least) to get over to AK to see it at night (never done before) before it closed at 8pm. So we altered our plans. Yes, we missed re-riding what we used to be able to re-ride. But we enjoyed what we did instead.

I wasn't complaining about what we did, I was just pointing out that saying to someone that "the same # of things can be done with FP+ as with legacy" may be true, that doesn't mean that *what things can be done* are the same. For some - including us on *this* trip, with only having 3 adults in our party - that may not matter much. For others, the ability to re-ride what they want is more important than being able to do "x" # of attractions total for the day.

 

[WillAustin]

It might even be possible to get the same number of FPs as we used to under legacy FP. But most reports show that headliner access after the first 3 is sketchy at best, and should not be counted on. Now what you are most likely to get after the first 3 are things that previously didn't even require a FP.

Our new strategy is APs and 2-3 times more park days as before.

We were considering DVC, but changed our minds mainly because of FP+. I think another timeshare might work better for us.

We just spent this past weekend at Universal. Doesn't have the "magic" though, even our kids said that.

 

[ariane37]

We love repeating headliners, and we love spontaneity. That makes FP+ 0 for 2 in my book. No matter how great I am at mastering the system, my odds of repeating headliners is vastly lower with FP+ that it was with legacy FP.

It might even be possible to get the same number of FPs as we used to under legacy FP. But most reports show that headliner access after the first 3 is sketchy at best, and should not be counted on. Now what you are most likely to get after the first 3 are things that previously didn't even require a FP.

OK the new "like" button is making me lazy, I keep hitting that instead of responding to posts!
Not being able to ride the headliners as often as we used to is the main reason I'm not a huge fan of FP+ and why we finally gave in to DS12 and are trying Universal on our Nov. trip. I still kind of hate the idea of losing park time to US, but then I remember we won't be doing our favorite rides as often as we like so......why not
Also, since we'll be leaving Disney for Universal anyway, we'll rent a car and stay off-site (using our timeshare) for the 1st time since 2010, which will save us ALOT of $$. We did decide to get AP's when we go next month, and we'll go in August as well, but that trip will also be off-site and include a trip to Kennedy Space Center.

Now I won't say these changes in our trips are because of FP+. Part of it I think is b/c oldest DS is now interested in doing other things. BUT, I do know that if on our 2 trips with FP+ we'd been happy with the attractions we were able to ride/do, younger DS and I would be much more stubborn as far as agreeing to visit other places & give up WDW park time, and all of us would be much more upset at the thought of not staying on-site.

And yeah, our experience was that nothing really worth getting was available for a 4th. At least for our family, and so by "worth getting" I mean headliners

 

[cakebaker]

I think it's a bit of leap to consider AP holders day guests or that they somehow diminish WDW profits. You know what WDW got when we bought AP's last June? 3 onsite trips in a year, when normally we'd make 1 trip a year or every other year. There are a good number of AP holders who get the AP's strictly for the resort discounts. The resort board has threads on it all the time- what are the discounts, is it worth it, how many trips can they fit into a year. So to assume that a majority of AP holders are day guests is a mistake as is assuming they're a Six Flags type of person who just wants to ride the big rides.

I don't see a trend here- that fp+ somehow encourages people to stay offsite. It's a nice theory for those who don't like fp+, but I'm going to bet it's doing exactly the opposite. A couple of dissatisfied guests on a Disney forum does not a trend make.

 

[Cormoran]

I think it's a bit of leap to consider AP holders day guests or that they somehow diminish WDW profits. You know what WDW got when we bought AP's last June? 3 onsite trips in a year, when normally we'd make 1 trip a year or every other year. There are a good number of AP holders who get the AP's strictly for the resort discounts. The resort board has threads on it all the time- what are the discounts, is it worth it, how many trips can they fit into a year. So to assume that a majority of AP holders are day guests is a mistake as is assuming they're a Six Flags type of person who just wants to ride the big rides.

I don't see a trend here- that fp+ somehow encourages people to stay offsite. It's a nice theory for those who don't like fp+, but I'm going to bet it's doing exactly the opposite. A couple of dissatisfied guests on a Disney forum does not a trend make.

It depends upon the AP holders and how they travel, but Disney wants to limit AP holders access to the parks. Hence blackout dates. If an AP holder only visits the parks for 12 days/ year Disney wins, but if an AP holder visit the park more frequently it's not as big of a windfall for Disney.

I also think you are grossly underestimating the amount of people who are dissatisfied with FP+.

 

[SplashMo]

I came to a similar conclusion. Either stretch out your stay to say two weeks to do the same amount of stuff or realize that you cant do as much as you could before and spend three-five days in the park doing what you can (which is less).

 

[kaytieeldr]

Only if we don't eat. But we have to eat. You've also neglected the $100 a night savings in lodging, which is actually where the "majority" of the savings comes from ($80 versus $100). Isn't that common core math insane?

Love you too.

Mind if I ask what your fascination with Common Core is in response to an adult never subjected to it?

 

[cakebaker]

It depends upon the AP holders and how they travel, but Disney wants to limit AP holders access to the parks. Hence blackout dates. If an AP holder only visits the parks for 12 days/ year Disney wins, but if an AP holder visit the park more frequently it's not as big of a windfall for Disney.

I also think you are grossly underestimating the amount of people who are dissatisfied with FP+.

Not all AP's have blackout dates- ours certainly don't.

And I think you grossly overestimate the number who are dissatisfied. Obviously there aren't enough that it's cutting down on the crowds in the parks. Business appears to be booming despite the dire consequences hoped for by some. Looking thru the lens of the Dis isn't a very accurate way to determine the success or failure of anything.

 

[jtowntoflorida]

Lake's riddle was cute. I hadn't heard it before, but enjoyed the moral.

Basically it's saying that the AP holder is the lest profitable guest. A guest that visits to ride lots, buy the minimum food, and no souvenirs. Like a teenager at Six Flags. To that, I'd agree.

You have to look at rides like resources. You have X to give out in a year. Each one you give out can generate a certain amount of cash.

An AP holder might pay $500/year and visit 10 days riding 12 rides per visit, or consume 120 rides for $500. Disney made $4.17 per riding of the rides it operated.

A resort guest might pay $5000/year and visit for 7 days, riding only 6 rides per day. $5000/42 is $119 per riding of the rides it operated.

So if Disney can sell a riding on one of its headliners for $119, then all the ridings they sell for $4.17 are monies lost. Now this is an exaggeration for effect and could vary greatly from person to person. But it is the basic math. Disney wants to covet resort stayers who want to visit for a week, stay in a resort, eat in the resort, shop in the resort, and get them on a few rides so their experience is magical and they want to do it again next year. They don't care that someone used to live locally, come for the morning, and rides 24 rides in a day via FP-. This ex-FP- commando was simply not a profitable customer. Rasulo outright stated in his last call that their core visitor base was the 8-day resort guest. Not surprising. Even Universal is trying to covet the resort guest and get out of the day-pass business cuz it's the least profitable way to dish out a company's rides.

Using rides to sell rooms differentiates a resort from a day-park.

Couldn't agree with this more, though when I tried to argue last year that local AP holders weren't Disney's priority because they didn't spend enough money, I got my butt chewed, hard. Rasulo's comments are interesting and I missed that call. Off to find a transcript...

BTW, we're AP holders right now. Why did we do it? To save money. Two week long and one long weekend trips planned in a 12 month period. It didn't take a rocket scientist to see the savings. Disney is definitely making less money off us this year thanks to that AP. This fall is when we add Universal to our agenda, and I suspect that in 2016 Disney will see none of our money.