My first post: Thinking of joining the DVC, but...

[JMF]

...I can't seem to get past this partial hypothetical example.

I just got back from WDW - we were there over Easter and had a great time as we always do.

The trip I just took cost me approximately $3,200 before spending money and food. *(We stayed at AKL for 9 nights) Essentially, the hotel cost about $2,000 and the rest was the park passes. *Given that the cost of the DVC does not include park passes, that means that an assumed $35,000 investment is allocated to the hotel alone. *That being said, if, over the next 35 years I go to WDW every other year, (our average) that's a comparable price of about $34,000. *When you add in the annual maintenance fees, I don't really see what you're saving. ???

I don't really buy the assertion that "I'm locking in costs now" because hotel prices will go up. *I think the cost of a hotel room is pretty stable for the most part.

Maybe I'm missing something. Can anyone elaborate?

Also, I'm a little leary that there is no real ownership involved here - that this is simply a lease in it's purest terms. It would be nice if in 30 years time I had something to hand over to my children.

Thanks,
JMF

 

[dianeschlicht]

Over the 45+ years of SSR, the cost of a room at that resort will go up SIGNIFICANTLY! The real problem with your figures is that you are figuring in the cost of a hotel room versus the cost of a villa. If you only plan to stay in a studio each time, it probably doesn't make as much sense, but at DVC resorts, you can stay in 1,2,or 3 bedroom villas that have their own kitchens, laundry rooms, whirlpool tubs etc, etc, etc, and the accommodations just can NOT be compared to any other resort where you will have "just a hotel room". This is like pre-paying your vacations and locking in at today's rate versus the rates that will be in the future. We have only owned for just under 9 years. We paid $62.50 for our first batch of points, and now resales for that same resort are going for around $70 per point, and from Disney they are selling for $89 per point. You can see how in that short time, our cost/value has gotten better and better.

You wont really "get it" unless you stay in a 1-2 bedroom villa and experience it yourself. These truely are 'Vacation homes' versus hotel rooms.

 

[lllovell]

I also think you need to do some looking into the number of points that it would take to stay when you would most likely (and the size of accomidation you would like - because as Diane pointed out, these aren't hotel rooms - they are like homes....even the studios are better appointed than MOST hotel rooms with balconies, etc) and then divide the number in 1/2 if you are confident you will only go every other year. If you spent $35000 on points, you would have WAY more than you would use for one vacation every other year.

A quick check of the Easter week from this year for a 1 bedroom at Boardwalk Villas would have run you 350 points for a week (this is the highest point season). You would only need 1/2 that many points for an every other year trip (you can bank your points from one year and combine them to the next one) meaning you would have to buy a minimum of 175. Those 175 would cost you (high estimate) $85 per point or $14,875. And this is locked in. They can change the points for a night (by raising points on one night and then lowering them for another - the total points for a year at a resort can NEVER change).

The annual dues would be approximately $612 a year - but that will change as year goes by, but keeping cost down is part of what the management is resposible for.

For most, its more than a financial decision, its also an emotional one. We love Disney and know we will be back many times.

 

[JMF]

A bit more information would be appropriate I guess.

First of all, thanks to Lovell and Diane for replying. I guess that I'm pretty much focused on the "studio" accomodations. We're only a family of 4 so we don't need to sleep any more than that. And by and large, when we are there, we are very rarely in the room so there's not a big need for kitchens, private laundry, etc.

I agree too that this is partly an emotional decision, which is why I think it's important to evaluate the financial side of it carefully, so that emotions don't cloud the issue.

I think it's also important to note that: 1) we go for at least 7 nights at a clip, never less and 2) I don't ever envision going over Easter vacation again - it was too crowded for part of the time. My wife and I are inclined to pull the kids from school next time. (at least that's the thinking now)

J

 

[dtheboys]

I don't ever envision going over Easter vacation again - it was too crowded for part of the time. My wife and I are inclined to pull the kids from school next time. (at least that's the thinking now)

J[/QUOTE]

That is EXACTLY what we thought....that was then this is now.....
We have THREE boys, and always pulled them out of school when they were younger.....REALITY, then struck.....When the oldest was in High School we pulled him for a week ( honor student) he had a very hard time catching up.

Now we have no choice, but to travel at Easter......yes, it is very, very crowded, but I love Disney..............

One of the best things I ever did for my family was purchasing DVC!!

 

[lllovell]

Have you looked at the points charts that you can link to from the top of the page here? That will give you some idea how much time you can spend at a DVC resort for how many points.

Also, there is a huge resale market that you need to explore along with options to buy directly from Disney. SSR has one glaring benefit (in my opinion) of having 12 more years on it than the other resorts currently in the DVC system, but the biggest advice that I think is correct that I have seen on these boards is if you are locked into children's schedules or work issues, then you need to buy where you want to stay because those will tend to be high peak times for traveling and you will need to make reservations early.

Each resort is different and offers different things. I want to try them all, but you will find some very loyal people here to only one resort. Not a bad thing.

We are going to be too big for a studio soon, but on our 250 points this year, we have had 10 days in a studio (all weekdays) and 5 more in a 2 bedroom. Both times, we are able to share our fun with family members and loved ones. I will say that we will probably stay in studios for a while longer (until coming soon baby gets to be too big) because I want to go often!

You said you do stay for 7 days minimum, which of course means a weekend stay, so you really need to do some numbers crunching to make sure that you are getting your money's worth. Many here don't sweat weekends and many others would check out and into a different hotel to save the weekend points. We live close enough that we simply go during the week (Sun - Thurs nights) and it has never been a bother. I like getting more bang for my buck. So be sure that adding in the high cost of weekends that you would still be getting a good value for YOU.

 

[mowog]

On our second trip to Disney we stayed at the CR for a price of $79 per night. This obviously was some time ago. I don't remember the first but the second sticks in my head. I figure our cost per point including purchase and dues is $6-7/point over the life of the contract. It will go up some as dues increas but this is where it is now. I haven't taken into consideration time/value of money but it gives us a basis for comparing rooms. We stay at BCV in a 2 BR for usualy 30 pt/night or less than $210. A studio would be 12 or $94. We are splurging and staying some weekends which eats up points but still a bargain.

For passes we buy annual passes and go twice in a 12 month period. We went Jan 05 and are going Dec 05 so we can use our passes and DDE card. Our next planned trips will be Dec 07 followed by Oct 08. We'll buy an AP for the Dec trip and use it in Oct also. This also gives us almost 2 years off for other trips. Some people have more points and go twice a year but we're not ready for that yet. This type of planning works well for us and the second trip is almost paid for with exception of food and transportation.

I was a skeptic when it came to "time shares" and was late to jump on the DVC bandwagon. We found ourselves going to WDW about every other year and staying in the nicer resorts- so we finally realized the DVC made sense. We stayed a night at AKL in Jan before moving to BCV and the rooms were depressing to us. I guess the dark natural colors are soothing to some but we like light and airy- couldn't wait to get to BVC.

Good Luck, Jean and Bob

 

[drakester]

We bought about 3 years ago and have almost got our $$ out of it already. We go to WDW about every other year because we can't afford to go every year. On our off year we go to HH for 5 days. We love HH the kids like it almost if not more than the World. We always get a one bedroom. We are also a family of 4 and I understand that you don't spend that much time in the room, but we really like to be able to get away from our kids for alittle while. We can go into the bedroom and close the door. Since we our with our kids all day long this is a priceless part of our vacation.
For our family it was so worth every penny!

 

[JimMIA]

*Given that the cost of the DVC does not include park passes, that means that an assumed $35,000 investment is allocated to the hotel alone. *That being said, if, over the next 35 years I go to WDW every other year, (our average) that's a comparable price of about $34,000.

By my fearless calculation, that would be at least 400 points per year. That's a whole bunch of points! For example, a nine-night stay in a Boardwalk Preferred View ONE BEDROOM, including 2 Friday nights and two Saturday nights, during April (which is to say just about as expensive as I can make this example) would be 390 points. If you normally go every other year, you're talking about 195 points...LESS THAN HALF what you are apparently contemplating, and that's in a one bedroom with 4 weekend nights (which are double the price of weekday nights) In reality, you could get by with a lot less than that, still in a one-bedroom.

*When you add in the annual maintenance fees, I don't really see what you're saving. ???

The maintenance fees on 195 points would be less than $850, depending on which resort you buy. If you want to pass something on to your kids in 30 years, you would probably buy SSR and those fees would currently run less than $750 per year.

I don't really buy the assertion that "I'm locking in costs now" because hotel prices will go up. *I think the cost of a hotel room is pretty stable for the most part.

I think you are WAY wrong about that.

Also, I'm a little leary that there is no real ownership involved here - that this is simply a lease in it's purest terms. It would be nice if in 30 years time I had something to hand over to my children.

I can't imagine where you got that idea. You will receive a deed to an actual real estate interest, which you will own, can sell or transfer, etc. You've got this part completely backwards.

You need to really start reading these boards, and doing some thorough research. DVC is complex and there is a lot to learn, and you have some things REALLY mixed up! If your assumptions were right, there wouldn't be any DVC!

 

[PamNC]

and I'm not an owner yet...I'm still thinking and researching....here's how I look at it.

We go at least once a year anyway and we stay in a deluxe resort. With an AP rate. We like the Polynesian a lot. So based on an average of 14 nights a year at an AP rate with tax of $233. that's $3,262.00 per year we typically spend on accommodations alone. If we were to buy 200 points, which would work for us because we don't have kids and definitely need nothing more than a studio, we could potentially get a resale for about $83.00 a point. That's $16,600. Add in about $500 for closing, and one's years maintenance for about $800...that's $17,900.00. Divide that by $3,262 and that's about 5 1/2 visits for us...meaning we could have it paid for by this time. As often as we go, that's about 3 years. This is not including the maintenance, but I know we can't stay at the Poly for $800-$900 a year. So, I would say it very well could pay for itself.

Just my thinking - I could be crazy.

PamNC

 

[JMF]

I think you are WAY wrong about that.

Jim,

Thanks for replying. I was reading your other thread. From what I gather, a room at the AKL or the Contemporary is about $200 per night right now, maybe slightly less using a travel agent selling packages. Are you asserting that in 15 years time (forgetting about adjusting for time value) that these rooms will cost $300 or $400 per night in today's dollars. I can't see that at all.

I an't imagine where you got that idea. You will receive a deed to an actual real estate interest, which you will own, can sell or transfer, etc. You've got this part completely backwards.

You need to really start reading these boards, and doing some thorough research. DVC is complex and there is a lot to learn, and you have some things REALLY mixed up! If your assumptions were right, there wouldn't be any DVC!

Jim, I got this information right from the packet that DVC sent me. The DVC membership is a 30 (or 35, I don't recall) year lease at all DVC resorts except SSR where it is 4o years. After that time, all ownership rights revert back to Disney and you are left with NOTHING. That's an awfully big pill for me to swallow.

I have confirmed this with Disney "Guides" at DVC. This is nothing more than a pre-payment of vacations. It's not a "true time share". Think about it a second - do you get a pro-rated share of real estate taxes to deduct on your individual income tax for your property?

J

 

[jodifla]

I agree with earlier poster who said that if you are only going to use studios, DVC may not be worth it. We started off mainly with studios on short trips before DS came along, but always treated ourselves to 1 bedrooms on longer trips.

There are just three of us, but we are totally spoiled by the 1 bedrooms. It's MUCH more of a vacation if we can put DS, 3, to bed, then enjoy a romantic meal and some relaxing time together, instead of tiptoeing around a hotel room so we don't wake DS up. We love having the kitchen so we can have breakfast in the room, and a few dinners too. There are cost savings right there.

Also, hotel rooms have absolutely skyrocketed in the past 20 years. We stayed at the contemporary for $49 a night in the early 70s. See how much they are now!

We bought in at the 150 point level in '97, then added 56 points, and have already paid it off, so we just have our dues now. We have enought points for nice vacations, but not so much that we feel like we can only go to Disney.

Another huge benefit: We can treat family and friends now to Disney trips. It's a lot of fun to go with a gang.

If it's just about the cost savings, it's probably not a good deal. But if you walk into a Grand Villa that goes for about a grand a night and think, "Wow, I could actually stay here!", then it might be for you. The mere thought of being able to stay at a Grand Villa a few times in our life was what sold DH, and he tells me it's the best thing we ever did every time we walk into our DVC home.

 

[JMF]

and I'm not an owner yet...I'm still thinking and researching....here's how I look at it.

We go at least once a year anyway and we stay in a deluxe resort. With an AP rate. We like the Polynesian a lot. So based on an average of 14 nights a year at an AP rate with tax of $233. that's $3,262.00 per year we typically spend on accommodations alone. If we were to buy 200 points, which would work for us because we don't have kids and definitely need nothing more than a studio, we could potentially get a resale for about $83.00 a point. That's $16,600. Add in about $500 for closing, and one's years maintenance for about $800...that's $17,900.00. Divide that by $3,262 and that's about 5 1/2 visits for us...meaning we could have it paid for by this time. As often as we go, that's about 3 years. This is not including the maintenance, but I know we can't stay at the Poly for $800-$900 a year. So, I would say it very well could pay for itself.

Just my thinking - I could be crazy.

PamNC

Well, with due respect, your scenario is not too typical if you're going for two weeks a year with no children. It's certainly not comparable to mine. But yes, in your case, it makes perfect sense for you - from a monetary standpoint alone. Everything else is just a bonus.

 

[JMF]

Also, hotel rooms have absolutely skyrocketed in the past 20 years. We stayed at the contemporary for $49 a night in the early 70s. See how much they are now!

I know this is the natural mentality, but this line of thinking is wrong. That's $49 is 1970's money. That $49 adjusted for inflation may very well be $200 now, so you haven't saved a penny. I haven't crunched numbers like that, so I don't know for sure, but to not give this any effect at all for inflation is just wrong.

Ok...DS is obviously your child. But what does DS stand for?

J

 

[jodifla]

JMF, can you clarify if you've toured any of the DVC properties?? I can't tell from your original post.

 

[JMF]

JMF, can you clarify if you've toured any of the DVC properties?? I can't tell from your original post.

No, we haven't. We didnt' really start thinking about it until AFTER this latest trip. Most of the information I did get has come from Disney and also from a friend of mine who already is a DVC member.

Thanks,
J

 

[jodifla]

DS is board speak, standing for dear son. DH is dear husband, DW, dear wife, etc.

And you're right $49 was an incredible amount of money for a room in the 70s. And Disney always charges top dollar for their hotel rooms, no matter what the year. So in 15 years, Disney will be charging at the high end for their rooms.

 

[MStepelton]

At every OTHER year, DVC may not be a good deal for you.
But I really don't think your going to be paying the same amount for a room say 10 years from now ona cash basis. But then I am "assumeing" that your staying on property. If not, then you can't compare apples to oranges.

 

[TonyS20]

Well, with due respect, your scenario is not too typical if you're going for two weeks a year with no children. It's certainly not comparable to mine. But yes, in your case, it makes perfect sense for you - from a monetary standpoint alone. Everything else is just a bonus.

My DH and I also spend 2 weeks in WDW every 10-18 months depending on our schedules.

We bought into DVC because we like the deluxe accommodations - washer/dryer (no checking our luggage), full kitchen, whirlpool tub. I've never stayed in a studio and I don't have any plans to. We bought knowing that the 1 bedroom is what we wanted. Based on the numbers I calculated at the time we bought, we will break even in 6 years. The rest of the years will simply be bonus!!

There is lots of good information on this site about buying. I received lots of information and support when trying to decide if DVC was right for my DH and I. Good luck in your decision!

 

[Aneille]

DS is son, DD daughter. The first part can be darling or anything else that fits the moment and starts with D

We are in the process of purchasing in and like you we had a hard time getting over the fact that we will not own a timeshare at the end of payments. We did the DVC tour with guide in September and it sounded good, but the fact that we didn't have the $$ to pay outright, we wouldn't own it outright and we figured we needed close to 400 pts scared us. When we took the tour we were currently staying at the Boardwalk Villa 1 bedroom . We loved it, and got a great deal on it with the 7 +2 days for free and the fact that we were splitting the place with my parents. We would never be able to afford this otherwise and although DVC would allow us to again, it wasn't selling us.

Well fast forward about 6 months. Another family is going on vacation. We would like to go as well. Start looking at prices and realize between the 2 vacations we easily had our downpayment and we should really reconsider, especially since we now would not in position where we needed to finance. We did more and more research and found out we didn't need 400 pts, we will only need between 200-250 for our family of 4. And if we find out we can always add on. Our kids are young and had a great time. My parents enjoyed Disney so much too (it was their first trip) and they would love to go back, my sister wants to go to Disney with my kids...we knew we were going back and soon. So we did it, and bought a resale.

So 2 out of the 3 our reasons were taken away. We were left with the big one that we will not own anything after 40 years. Well we decided it just didn't matter to us. The times we will have will be more to us than passing it on when we were dead. And if we don't use it like we expect we will sell it. Per pt price may be the same or better when we do, but if we sell soon it will probably be a loss, but I am guessing if we go every year for 5 years, and then sell it would be a break even situation when we figure in the vacations we have had. This is all based on that our family likes to travel within the Deluxe resorts and maybe some of the moderates.

Good luck with whatever you choose to do.