My dd2 was called a BRAT today @Walmart:(

[Mouse House Mama]

You said in your post that a 2 year old is old enough to know how to behave, and at 24 months I think you are are wrong. Its not about being reminded, its about being taught. You may have been one of thse lucky parents who old your 24 month old exactly how they should behave in every situation for therest of their lives, and at 36 months they only needed to be reminded when they *forgot* that they were told a year before that they need to be quiet in a public place. I however did not have any 2 year olds like that, teaching them appropriate behavior was an ongoing thing when they were that age. Now that they are older comes the little reminders, but not at two.

I think perhaps I am saying it wrong but we actually do agree on this. I call them reminders, you call it being taught. I think we mean the same thing. If we go to the store they will sit in the stroller/shopping cart/ or hold onto it and walk. Yes, I will have to remind them probably 90 times to stay next to me etc. But that is my point. Parenting is an ongoing job. So while they may not always do as they should, constant reminding makes it become second nature. When you do nothing about it because "they're 2" then at what age do you (a general you for all this) decide that you should parent?
I know someone who never made her kids share before the age of about 4. She said kids that young don't understand it and she isn't going to make her kids share. So what happens at 4? You automatically make your kid share and now they are supposed to understand when for 4 years they had cart blanche?
Everyone has days where they want to lay down in the store and beg for mercy because the kids have had enough and you simply must get meds/milk/dinner. Nobody is denying that. I just don't understand why you need to be out leisurely shopping when your child has clearly had enough.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

I did not read your post first. I could have saved myself much typing if I did!!!!

Got to get looser bloomers to hand out when women get *****y at Walmart.

See, now you are using your noodle!

 

[luvmy3]

I think perhaps I am saying it wrong but we actually do agree on this. I call them reminders, you call it being taught. I think we mean the same thing. If we go to the store they will sit in the stroller/shopping cart/ or hold onto it and walk. Yes, I will have to remind them probably 90 times to stay next to me etc. But that is my point. Parenting is an ongoing job. So while they may not always do as they should, constant reminding makes it become second nature. When you do nothing about it because "they're 2" then at what age do you (a general you for all this) decide that you should parent?
I know someone who never made her kids share before the age of about 4. She said kids that young don't understand it and she isn't going to make her kids share. So what happens at 4? You automatically make your kid share and now they are supposed to understand when for 4 years they had cart blanche?
Everyone has days where they want to lay down in the store and beg for mercy because the kids have had enough and you simply must get meds/milk/dinner. Nobody is denying that. I just don't understand why you need to be out leisurely shopping when your child has clearly had enough.

Yes, I think we do agree. I believe that a child is never too young to learn how to behave, because if we parents don't teach them then things will only get worse the older they get. I just don't think a 2 year old has the mental capacity to take in the *rules* and retain them, so I guess what I thought you were saying is that they can. I am not giving the mom in the OP a pass, I hope she was trying to get her child to behave. I don't know what she did, the only thing I do know is that an angry woman came up to a 2 year old and called them a brat, and no matter what the circumstances that lead up to that, its just plain wrong.

 

[Kennywife]

I don't have kids and may never even be able to, but I can attest to how my parents raised me. My parents didn't believe in being the kids "friend" or "kids will be kids." They taught me to behave at ALL times. My mother could take me anywhere; restaurants, church, stores, etc. and I was always quiet. If I acted up, she pinched my thigh or gave me "the look.' If I continued, which was extremely rare, I was removed from the situation and spanked. BTW, I have disabilities too. But my parents thought it was important for me to behave and be a little lady.

The other day, I saw kids running in a restaurant. My mother would have NEVER allowed that for fear I would have hurt myself or someone else. My mother told me I acted up one time as a child and she spanked me in front of a crowd! I never did that again. My mom was one of those leash moms who put leashes on their kids.

Yeah, my parents were strict and still are at times. I'm grateful though for them now. I didn't go through my rebellious phase till I was in college. But I'll tell you what. If I ever have kids, I will raise mine the same way my parents did.

Anna

 

[Scurvy]

I think perhaps I am saying it wrong but we actually do agree on this. I call them reminders, you call it being taught. I think we mean the same thing. If we go to the store they will sit in the stroller/shopping cart/ or hold onto it and walk. Yes, I will have to remind them probably 90 times to stay next to me etc. But that is my point. Parenting is an ongoing job. So while they may not always do as they should, constant reminding makes it become second nature. When you do nothing about it because "they're 2" then at what age do you (a general you for all this) decide that you should parent?
I know someone who never made her kids share before the age of about 4. She said kids that young don't understand it and she isn't going to make her kids share. So what happens at 4? You automatically make your kid share and now they are supposed to understand when for 4 years they had cart blanche?
Everyone has days where they want to lay down in the store and beg for mercy because the kids have had enough and you simply must get meds/milk/dinner. Nobody is denying that. I just don't understand why you need to be out leisurely shopping when your child has clearly had enough.

Exactly! And though some posters seem determined to act as though people on this thread are completely intolerant of any bad behavior by a two year old, no one on this thread has been criticising the mother who is trying her best to deal with a toddler who is having a meltdown. Of course things like that happen, and we all need to try to be tolerant and to let the mom know she isn't alone. However, in the case of the OP that isn't what was going on. The OP fully expected everyone to deal with the screeching and she had no intention of attempting to make the child stop. That is what most of us have a problem with - the idea that something like screeching is perfectly acceptable if it's coming from a 2 year old, and that the parent does not need to do anything to stop it.

luvmy3 - I for one know that 2 year olds are to young to have learned how to behave, but they are not to young to be learning how to behave. They are able at that point to start to retain information about rules and proper behavior. That's one reason it is so important to be continually teaching them at that age. A parent can't just wheel them screeching through the store, because that teaches them that it's okay to do that. By always correcting the behavior, the parent is teaching them what is and is not acceptable. That's how they learn, so that by the time they are old enough to have retained the information it will be firmly ingrained in them that some things are not acceptable in public. That sort of teaching would be lost on a 3 month old, of course, but by 2 they do start to retain the information and the things they learn from age 2 until age 4 will make a huge difference in their behavior as they reach school age.

 

[NHdisneylover]

Do you have kids? Two is too young to completely understand this concept. Two is too young to think to themselves, "well I'm not at home now, I better make sure I don't act up".

I have 2 kids and I taught 18 month to 30 month olds in preschool for almost 10 years. You are right that 2 is too young to think this to themselvse--BUT that age is leanring all the time. Everything you do (or do not do) with them gets absorbed. It is astounding. So, if you allow the child to screech for the joy of hearing herself in Walmart she WILL learn taht being loud in a public building is okay. On the other hand, if you stop her at the first screech and say something like "Opps, that is an ouside voice. You need ot be using a soft inside voice right now like this." She learns the screeching is not okay. Hopefully she will stop then (but she may forget in 20 minutes and need a reminder). Sometimes toddlers just have to oush the limits and see if you meant it so she may screech further. At that point you tell her again to use an inside voice and tell her you will have to go sit in the boring car for a while is she does it again. Then you follow through if you have to.

I think I'm going to start a new religion devoted to the worship of "minkydog the parent"!

I swear, I think you are doing more things right as a parent than most.

I agree. minkydog I am so very impressed by you

 

[inkedupmomma]

Ladies, ladies, ladies (and gentlemen)----this thread has turned into something that isn't constructive. It isn't about blame---was the mom wrong for letting the kids shreek, or for not leaving the store so the little one could take a nap. It isn't about if the women who made her unkind remark. Some awful comments about the OP have been made here---without any of as knowing her,or her children , her life or her circumstances. Heck, we don't even know her favorite tv show, or if she like brussels sprouts or lima beans.

But this is what I do know. As the old saying goes--it takes a village. We as women should be offering constructive and compassionate advice. Heck ladies, she is one of us. The imperfect mom, who is learning as she goes, doing some things to perfection and totally failing in others. We can offer our advice and viewpoints, but be constructive.

I have been in line in back of the women who is trying to make the escape from the grocery store because 2 year old Johnny is having his meltdown. You have all seen that women, haven't you---the one not sure if she should cry, or scream at the kid to just shut up. She is the one trying to bribe the kid with the box of cookies she just bought, but that kid throws them on the floor and screams louder. She swipes her debit card and in her frustration types in the wrong pin, and has the re-do the debit card machine thing again. There is no bagger so she throwing the toilet bowl cleaner in the same bag with the banana's. I am the observer, until I take the initiative. I try to get the kids attention----pretend to play with the little one, make funny faces anything to divert the kids attention for 10 seconds. I turn to mom and say, one of those days-huh. I tell her don't worry, its happened TO ALL OF US!!! And for just a second before Johnny starts round 2, mom knows she is part of something bigger, and that we as women can stand and help constructively and with compassion.

And thats all I have to say about that.

Just thought this was worth repeating!

I also think this is worth repeating! I said it earlier and I'm going to say it again, why are some of you so venomous?? You seem so full of angst and superiority. We're all woman, we're all Disers..why are we judging each other SO harshly I hope you keep this angst to yourself and do not teach your children to be so judgmental and intolerant

 

[luvmy3]

I have 2 kids and I taught 18 month to 30 month olds in preschool for almost 10 years. You are right that 2 is too young to think this to themselvse--BUT that age is leanring all the time. Everything you do (or do not do) with them gets absorbed. It is astounding. So, if you allow the child to screech for the joy of hearing herself in Walmart she WILL learn taht being loud in a public building is okay. On the other hand, if you stop her at the first screech and say something like "Opps, that is an ouside voice. You need ot be using a soft inside voice right now like this." She learns the screeching is not okay. Hopefully she will stop then (but she may forget in 20 minutes and need a reminder). Sometimes toddlers just have to oush the limits and see if you meant it so she may screech further. At that point you tell her again to use an inside voice and tell her you will have to go sit in the boring car for a while is she does it again. Then you follow through if you have to.



I agree. minkydog I am so very impressed by you

Yes, I know, and actually have said that in my posts. Even if we do our absolute best on our best days, it doesn't mean that a 2 year old will do what is right in the situation, and thats really my point. We have no idea what the OP was doing to control, or stop her 2 year olds behavior, so I don't think its so unreasonable to assume that she was trying and her child just happened to not cooperate. I doubt the OP will come back to this thread and tell us so I am willing to give her the benefit of the doubt, and assume that she was doing something to quiet her child before the woman approached her. Which again, no matter what the OP did or didn't do, that woman had no business calling a 2 year old a brat to her face.

 

[Scurvy]

Yes, I know, and actually have said that in my posts. Even if we do our absolute best on our best days, it doesn't mean that a 2 year old will do what is right in the situation, and thats really my point. We have no idea what the OP was doing to control, or stop her 2 year olds behavior, so I don't think its so unreasonable to assume that she was trying and her child just happened to not cooperate. I doubt the OP will come back to this thread and tell us so I am willing to give her the benefit of the doubt, and assume that she was doing something to quiet her child before the woman approached her. Which again, no matter what the OP did or didn't do, that woman had no business calling a 2 year old a brat to her face.

I think that many of us are basing our assumption that the OP was not attempting to control her child on the information from her own posts. Not only did she not say that she was trying anything to stop the behavior, she said the following:

That said, I will shop anytime I have to and want to, during the day.

................

Did I get annoyed or mad at this woman for the hugea-- motorized thing she was on getting in my way or taking up the entire aisle? Or the annoying beeping noises from the dang thing when she put it in reverse. Or her ugly, dorky looking halloween clothes(she should have been wearing a witch costume to match her personality)? No, its called tolerating and dealing with people/everyday life situations.

..............................

My 2 year old is definitely not the first in a public place to be loud....and thats all it was was loud. NO CRYING, NOTHING. SHE WASN'T HAVING A MELTDOWN OR ANYTHING ELSE, JUST SCREECHING TO HEAR HERSELF.
If people don't want to hear possible "loud noises" (which is pretty much anywhere you are in public) STAY HOME!!!! SHOP ONLINE.

My baby was strapped into a cart not doing anything but making noise. Not running wildly through a store or pulling stuff off shelves. I don't see any reason for someone to say "take care of your child", "she's a brat", "your a b....". Im so glad my dd2 didn't understand what came out of the womans mouth. Or that my other 4 children were with me and heard someone call their mother that.

When it comes down to it, that kind of behavior from an adult versus a 2 yr. old who doesn't know any better, is whats wrong in this day and age. If we had kinder, more understanding, tolerable people out there, the world would be a much better place.

The judgemental people here must never have been in this situation or don't have kids. I really would love to see what you would have done. I will shop anytime I wish to. The situation imo, did not call for me to leave the store, which I will state, has NEVER happened! I need to get what I need to get and have no other time to do it. I run the household and the kids, they don't run me. That said, I would not deliberatly take a melting down, screaming kid
into a public place. But a kid who is being loud????


Public places = noisy. My child was not calling this woman a brat or b.... like she said to us. She was the one that was wrong here, not me.

Those quotes, along with the fact that she never mentioned trying to calm her child, lead me to believe that she really didn't try to stop the behavior. I get the impression from her posts that she thought anyone who had a problem with the screeching should leave the store and shop from home. She didn't seem at all apologetic toward those who had to put up with the noise, and instead seemed angry at the suggestion that she was wrong to continue to subject her fellow shoppers to the noise. Given that she was posting in an attempt to get sympathy for what the mean old woman at the store said to her, I would think that she would have mentioned it if she was frustrated and frazzled and doing her best to calm the child. Instead, she defended the behavior as "just noise".

If the OP had posted and seemed to feel badly about her child's behavior at the store, and seemed apologetic about the noise, I think most posters would have reacted quite differently. I would have felt terrible for her, and of course would have thought that the other woman was completely in the wrong. However, faced with the attitude that the OP displayed on this thread, it's hard not to feel some sympathy for the other woman in the store, even though I do think she should not have called the OP and her child names.

 

[LoraJ]

I think that many of us are basing our assumption that the OP was not attempting to control her child on the information from her own posts. Not only did she not say that she was trying anything to stop the behavior, she said the following:




Those quotes, along with the fact that she never mentioned trying to calm her child, lead me to believe that she really didn't try to stop the behavior. I get the impression from her posts that she thought anyone who had a problem with the screeching should leave the store and shop from home. She didn't seem at all apologetic toward those who had to put up with the noise, and instead seemed angry at the suggestion that she was wrong to continue to subject her fellow shoppers to the noise. Given that she was posting in an attempt to get sympathy for what the mean old woman at the store said to her, I would think that she would have mentioned it if she was frustrated and frazzled and doing her best to calm the child. Instead, she defended the behavior as "just noise".

If the OP had posted and seemed to feel badly about her child's behavior at the store, and seemed apologetic about the noise, I think most posters would have reacted quite differently. I would have felt terrible for her, and of course would have thought that the other woman was completely in the wrong. However, faced with the attitude that the OP displayed on this thread, it's hard not to feel some sympathy for the other woman in the store, even though I do think she should not have called the OP and her child names.

 

[minkydog]

I think I'm going to start a new religion devoted to the worship of "minkydog the parent"!

I swear, I think you are doing more things right as a parent than most.

Nawww. I just had parents and grandparents who put the fear of God in me about behaving in public. I have not chosen to use their methods *beating, screaming, humiliation, sarcasm* but I do see their point--nobody wants to be around kids who are poorly behaved. And I have enough co-dependence in my that, you know, how my kids acts MUST reflect on me. Ugh. still working on that one...

I don't have kids and may never even be able to, but I can attest to how my parents raised me. My parents didn't believe in being the kids "friend" or "kids will be kids." They taught me to behave at ALL times. My mother could take me anywhere; restaurants, church, stores, etc. and I was always quiet. If I acted up, she pinched my thigh or gave me "the look.' If I continued, which was extremely rare, I was removed from the situation and spanked. BTW, I have disabilities too. But my parents thought it was important for me to behave and be a little lady.

The other day, I saw kids running in a restaurant. My mother would have NEVER allowed that for fear I would have hurt myself or someone else. My mother told me I acted up one time as a child and she spanked me in front of a crowd! I never did that again. My mom was one of those leash moms who put leashes on their kids.

Yeah, my parents were strict and still are at times. I'm grateful though for them now. I didn't go through my rebellious phase till I was in college. But I'll tell you what. If I ever have kids, I will raise mine the same way my parents did.

Anna

Haha, my mom was a leash mom and I inherited that trait. Lord knows, I've gotten some looks, but at least none of my kids every ran out into traffic. Or in Christian's case, into a thermal geyser at Yellowstone last summer. I do believe in leashes!

My grandparents grew up hard in the country. They expected us to behave at all times, but especially when they took us out in public. I can well remember going to the country store--we were made to pull out a large tub of lard(!) and sit on it quietly until Granny was finished shopping. If we were good, the store keeper would reward us with a small hunk of sharp cheese. It sounds funny now, but back then that was a big treat.

minkydog I am so very impressed by you

thank you very much. You all are so kind. It's not easy to raise kids today, and it's especially not easy when they have special needs. But it never occured to me to have a different standard of behavior for Christian just because he's handicapped. In fact, we have had to make him toe the line from very early on because it takes him so long to learn things. If we waited until he "understood", we'd still be waiting and he'd be obnoxious and running amuk. He's 5'7" and 120-lbs, strong as any normal 14yo boy. Can you imagine if we had no disciplined him in his younger years?

 

[surfgirl]

I think some of the opinions which others are viewing as 'judgmental' come since (in my mind) the OP has lost the benefit of the doubt.

Why ?
- she saw the screeching as perfectly acceptable
- she admits the child was tired/needed a nap/etc.
- she engaged this women ("excuse me", "what, should I beat her ?")
- when she came back to clarify, she was condescending ("did I complain about her annoying ECV? did I complain about her ugly clothes?" "why doesn't she do her shopping on-line ?" )

There are times that we've all come on to vent. There are times that I've seen the errors of my ways and realized that maybe I could have handled a situation differently. I don't think the OP sees that.

 

[beautybelle]

To be quite frank about it YES I would indeed knock someone silly over calling my child a bad name, you better believe I would. And besides who would REALLY, REALLY be so low as to come up to a parent and a child and have the nerve to say something like that to the child with the parent standing right there and then NOT expect to get flailed? Good grief, Ive actually sat here and ran that scenario through my head and to be honest I wouldnt expect nothing less than the parent to kick my butt from one side of the store to the next.
You may say, and Im sure you will from the looks of it, all kinds of things about me and try to twist what I say or mean into all kinds of pretzels, I honestly do not care one way or another but I stand by what I say because I mean it. You come up to me in a place like wal mart and say something to me directly you may or may not get a discussion about it. Depending on how I feel at that moment I may very well walk off and leave you standing there BUT you come up to my child and call him or her a bad name and there will be no discussion about it period, and I can assure you I will not be walking off and whoever said it wont be walking off either.
Now I may be the only person on HERE that is that protective over their kids but I can assure you that Im NOT the only person in the world like that so to anyone who will ever deem it necessary to approach a child (not necessarily mine) and say something, they might want to think "well how important is it that I say this; do I want to let them know how I feel bad enough to end up at the police station?"
You may get lucky enough to find someone who will mutter something and walk off but then again you might come up on somebody like me.
My kids are the most important thing in the world to me and I will defend them fiercely.
I know, I know, LOLOLOL
Now im not directing this at anyone here im just stating how I feel personally about a situation like this.

 

[AndyPanda]

I joined Disboards a month or so ago after reading that it was a friendly place for Disney discussion. After choosing this thread to read last night, I realized that I need to learn more about computers and people. I read this woman's question and realized I am out of my league. I thought everyone would comfort her and give her friendly advice about this Walmart incident. Wow. How do I unsubscribe? Alittle kindness goes a long way. And yes, I have 2 grown professional children, one a prosthodontist, and I never spanked them. And believe you me, they were kind, public schooled, well mannered children just as they are as adults. God Bless you, OP

 

[KAMKIM]

I think some of the opinions which others are viewing as 'judgmental' come since (in my mind) the OP has lost the benefit of the doubt.

Why ?
- she saw the screeching as perfectly acceptable
- she admits the child was tired/needed a nap/etc.
- she engaged this women ("excuse me", "what, should I beat her ?")
- when she came back to clarify, she was condescending ("did I complain about her annoying ECV? did I complain about her ugly clothes?" "why doesn't she do her shopping on-line ?" )

There are times that we've all come on to vent. There are times that I've seen the errors of my ways and realized that maybe I could have handled a situation differently. I don't think the OP sees that.

Oh believe me the judgemental comments would have came no matter what she said or did...

 

[Hazzard101]

I am not a parent, I am married to my DW and we both work with children in the school system. We are DVC members and go to Disney World often. We also frequent the mad house referred to as Walmart. I am going to make a few observations and then let it go.

1. When going into public places we, as adults, should expect to encounter people and children not acting perfectly.

2. Adults are supposed to be mature and be able to control themselves in normal situations in public. It seems that more and more these days people feel it's ok to say whatever is on their minds whenever it comes to mind. I am still in the school of belief that there are things we all think but don't say. We all think things like "I wish this kid would shut up" but most of us know how to control ourselves, have the thought and keep on moving.

3. Are we all not Disney goers? If so, how can anyone with children talk about not taking children out when they are tired and should be napping when I know everyone has run their children ragged at DW, kept them out later than they should have, and had their child melt down on the bus on the way back to the resorts? Granted the OP didn't seem to take other peoples comfort level into consideration and try to tell the child to hush.
On the other hand I have heard other parents on the bus screaming louder than the children telling them to stop acting up after keeping them out past their bed time. I would think that all these posters who are against the behavior of the OP look at themselves. I have been to Disney world and seen a lot worse it amazes me that we all would consider the annoying screech of a two year old this offensive.. just MHO

Side note: The old lady probably needs some attention and the only way she can get it is by pushing peoples buttons. I hope she has someone to care for her.

 

[sbell111]

... We're all woman, we're all Disers..why are we judging each other SO harshly ...

We are?

 

[KAMKIM]

We are?

you better check again.

 

[Scurvy]

To be quite frank about it YES I would indeed knock someone silly over calling my child a bad name, you better believe I would. And besides who would REALLY, REALLY be so low as to come up to a parent and a child and have the nerve to say something like that to the child with the parent standing right there and then NOT expect to get flailed? Good grief, Ive actually sat here and ran that scenario through my head and to be honest I wouldnt expect nothing less than the parent to kick my butt from one side of the store to the next.
You may say, and Im sure you will from the looks of it, all kinds of things about me and try to twist what I say or mean into all kinds of pretzels, I honestly do not care one way or another but I stand by what I say because I mean it. You come up to me in a place like wal mart and say something to me directly you may or may not get a discussion about it. Depending on how I feel at that moment I may very well walk off and leave you standing there BUT you come up to my child and call him or her a bad name and there will be no discussion about it period, and I can assure you I will not be walking off and whoever said it wont be walking off either.
Now I may be the only person on HERE that is that protective over their kids but I can assure you that Im NOT the only person in the world like that so to anyone who will ever deem it necessary to approach a child (not necessarily mine) and say something, they might want to think "well how important is it that I say this; do I want to let them know how I feel bad enough to end up at the police station?"
You may get lucky enough to find someone who will mutter something and walk off but then again you might come up on somebody like me.
My kids are the most important thing in the world to me and I will defend them fiercely.
I know, I know, LOLOLOL
Now im not directing this at anyone here im just stating how I feel personally about a situation like this.

Well it's hard to argue with that! So yes, that's certainly something to consider when trying to decide whether to ask someone to control their child. What if they are going to escalate to a physical confrontation? I must admit I don't know anyone who would do such a thing, but I've seen enough Jerry Springer to know that people like that do exist. I'd hate to have to spend my day at the police station filing charges because some nut assaulted me, so I'll remember not to approach bad parents directly if I am ever tempted to!

 

[Missy1961]

Wonder how long before this thread gets shut down? My spidey-sense is tingling.

Yeah, I can't believe this is still going. It's the Energizer Bunny of threads.