*~* Muggles, Welcome to the Burrow! *~*

[golfgal]

Why would Borgin and Burke be working against Voldemort? They own a shop devoted to dark objects. They would be fascinated with a horcrux, not repulsed.

Moreover, they are both alive, although RAB seemed quite certain he would soon be dead.
And neither of them have made any effort to join the Order, or in any way fight against the Death Eaters, which seems odd for someone who was willing to risk death to steal the horcrux in the first place.

The real locket Horcrux is almost certainly the locket that was found in the drawing room at 12 Grimmauld Place and that Kreacher stole out of the trash. If Borgin or Burke was RAB, how would the locket have ended up in the Black family home?

What Sirius says about his brother has to be understood through Sirius' bias. Sirius is angry at his brother for being a DE. He has the typical older brother contempt for a younger brother.

Besides which, we know that Burke's first name is Caractacus.

I don't understand the logic behind "it's too easy" as an argument. JKR does make things easy. Remember the Mark Evans fiasco? A passing reference was made to a boy named Mark Evans in OoTP. All over the net, speculation went crazy - ooh, the name Evans means he had to be related to Lily and this is Harry's long lost cousin. Nope. Just a coincidence, even though fans swore JKR never has coincidences.

And Dumbledore is dead? That's the simplest, most obvious conclusion at the end of HBP. Entire websites sprung up devoted to the idea that Dumbledore could not be dead, with some elaborate and very clever explanations of how he could have faked his death. But JKR came out and said, plain as day "Dumbledore is dead."

Ron and Hermione - the obvious romantic coupling, and per JKR - that's the way it is. Harry's mysterious power referenced at the end of OoTP. Oh it couldn't be love, that's too obvious, that's too easy - but nope! Dumbledore confirmed in HBP that it's love, "just love."

I will bet you a $25 gift card to the Disney Store that RAB is Regulus.

We don't know WHERE Burke is, Borgen is the only one mentioned as being in the shop any time they have been there. Also, just because they sell dark objects doesn't mean they are evil, Borgen certainly doesn't like Malfoy one bit.

The too easy comment is based on everything JKR has ever 'hinted' at in upcoming books. Most people think they are easy answers and they turn out to be something totally different. RAB is not Regulus Black, it is too obvious for her writing style.

Where in any of the books does it give Burke's first name???

The locket horcrux could very well be that locket and it could have been given to the Blacks, who were NOT death eaters other then Regulus, for safe keeping/hiding by Burke, easily.

One thing you have to remember and it was said in the books, being a bad witch/wizard doesn't automatically make you a death eater so just because someone was in Slytherin doesn't mean they are death eaters.

 

[SueM in MN]

Count me in too.
I've read all the books at least twice, seen all the movies numerous times and I am starting to read Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix to my younger DD (after reading the earlier books aloud to her - she has Cerebral Palsy and can't read them herself, but loves to hear them read to her). I've found reading aloud to her really slowed me down and made me think about what I am reading; things like, should this be read angry? pleading??, etc.

Anyway, I do have some thoughts about Snape (I agree with most of the other posters on this thread that in the end, he is going to end up to be on the side of the Order).

One of the continuing elements in the Harry Potter books has been the choices people have to make between what is right and what is easy.

Harry is going to have a dilemma in the next book concerning Snape.
Trust he is on the side of the Order? Or think the worst of him and think he is on the side of Voldemort?
It would be very easy for Harry to hate Snape. After all, Harry saw Snape kill Dumbledore, Snape has always treated Harry badly, Snape hated Harry's father, Snape had some responsibility in Sirius Black's end, and Snape repeating the prophesy he heard to Voldemort led to the death of Harry's parents. It would be very easy to hate Snape, but would it be the right thing to do?
The same things fit for the other members of the Order. It would be easy for them to distrust and hate Snape. But, is it the right thing?

What about Snape?
He's also had turning points when he had to choose between what was right and what was easy.
One point was when he chose to become a Death Eater in the first place. he had been an unhappy child and had been picked on in school. Choosing to go with Voldemort meant an easy way to power and maybe a way to get even with some of those people who made his life unhappy. It wasn't the right way because Voldemort's power was based on making people afraid, intimidated and putting them in danger (besides, getting even is not exaclty good Karma).

When Snape overheard the prophesy, passing it on was an easy thing to do, an easy way to power. But, it meant betraying innocent people, which is never right. I think when Snape heard who had been killed because of his betrayal, he realized the consequences that were connected to the choice he had made and he made a choice to join Dumbledore.
I do think that Dumbledore realized/never believed Voldemort was dead, only incapacitated in some way. Maybe, some of the things Snape told him lead him to finding out more about the horcruxes and how Voldemort was able to stay alive.

I think Dumbledore's trust of Snape came from Snape coming to him after Harry's parent's death and admitting his part in it. I think Snape was upset when he found he had betrayed Lily. Even if he didn't love her, she was one of the few people who had actually treated him kindly.
I think he also told Dumbledore about something we found out about in the Prisoner of Azkaban; that Harry's father had actually saved Snape's life once when they were all at Hogwarts (Snape had seen Madame Pomphrey leading Lupin to the whomping willow and Sirius encouraged Snape to go thru the willow to find out the secret. Harry's father went after him and saved him).
That saving formed a bond between them - After Harry saved Peter Pettigrew, Dumbledore explains that there is a powerful magical bond between Harry and Peter. The same kind of bond existed between Snape and Harry's father. Not only had Snape not saved Harry's father's life in return, Snape's actions led to his death. I think Dumbledore knew about the bond, but Voldemort did not. Dumbledore knew that Snape had chosen what was right.

I think Dumbledore knew about the unbreakable vow that Snape had sworn to help and protect Malfoy. I believe that Dumbledore had asked Snape to kill him when the time came. When Snape got up to the roof, his choices were to try to prevent Dumbeldore's death or to kill him.
If he chose to try to prevent DD's death, that would mean his own death because of the unbreakable vow and would also mean Malfoy's death because he had not completed his mission and mabe the deaths of other students as they tried to fight the Death Eaters. It would be the easy thing to do in some ways, because Dumbledore had trusted and been kind to him when most others were not. So, that doesn't seem to me to be the right thing to do.

I think choosing to kill Dumbledore, would have been the harder thing to do. Not only did he have to kill someone who had trusted him, but I think he knew that Harry was there, watching. Killing Dumbledore would also make him hated by members of the order and non-Death Eaters. Dumbledore's death would also mean that the Death Eaters would leave Hogwarts (since their mission was to kill him) and the danger to the other students would be gone.

 

[kirbsam]

we need a harry potter board. then we could discuss multiple subjects and they would all be in one place. who has some pull with the webmasters and get them to give us our own board. it would have to be more popular than some of the other boards around here. what do you think??

 

[HomeSweetDisney]

I will bet you a $25 gift card to the Disney Store that RAB is Regulus.

Ooooh, you're really raising the stakes!


Count me in as someone who believes R.A.B. is Regulus. I absolutely think it's him. JKR has dropped some pretty anvil sized hints in that department. And it makes sense when you look at Regulus' background, his past as a Deatheater, etc. It makes sense to think that after being accepted into the Death Eaters that he might come across something like the horcrux (the locket one) and be completely horrified. It's like Sirius said in OOTP, Regulus along with the rest of the Black family, were all for the purification of the wizarding world. They probably thought "wow, this Lord Voldemort has the right idea!" Of course, this was before he went psycho (although I think it's safe to say he's been psycho all along) and started killing Muggles and Muggle born wizards/witches. So then after Regulus realized what he'd gotten himself into he wanted to get out of it. But I think he did know that you don't just up and leave the Death Eaters, not without heavy consequence. So when he found out about the horcrux that could have been his way of getting back at Voldemort so that his death wasn't in vain.

 

[JunieJay]

And Dumbledore is dead? That's the simplest, most obvious conclusion at the end of HBP. Entire websites sprung up devoted to the idea that Dumbledore could not be dead, with some elaborate and very clever explanations of how he could have faked his death. But JKR came out and said, plain as day "Dumbledore is dead."

Ya know before I read HBP I knew Dumbledore was history, but still, her confirmation of that fact, even after I read it so clearly, just blew me away. I think that was the first time I have ever truly grieved a fictional character's death.

I know, I need a life.

Oh, one other thing, back to the deaths. The reprieve that JKR has discussed has me intrigued. I wonder if she gave Neville that reprieve...I have been seeing signs for his death in the last few books and I hope he survives; maybe she had planned to kill him but changed her mind? I think Neville's death would be, in a way, a worse blow than any. He has always been so underrated and yet so sweet and brave.

 

[JunieJay]

we need a harry potter board. then we could discuss multiple subjects and they would all be in one place. who has some pull with the webmasters and get them to give us our own board. it would have to be more popular than some of the other boards around here. what do you think??

I like it. This thread surely has my thinking cap firmly planted on my head, I'll say that. I'm not even done with va32h's post and it looks like I have 4 more to think about after that.

 

[SueM in MN]

Where in any of the books does it give Burke's first name???

According to the Harry Potter Lexicon (which JKRowling says even she uses as a resource:

Burke, Caractacus
One of the founders of Borgin and Burkes, a shop in Knockturn Alley. The man behind the counter when Lucius Malfoy came in (CS4), however, was Mr. Borgin.
Burke was one of the people that Dumbledore interviewed when he was piecing together the story of Merope (Gaunt) Riddle. Burke purchased a heavy gold locket from her that he knew once belonged to Salazar Slytherin, paying her 10 Galleons even though he knew it was priceless. Caractacus is described as a small old man with a thatch of hair that covered his eyes (HBP13).
Burke hired Tom Riddle when he was fresh out of Hogwarts to research and "persuade" owners of powerful, valuable magical objects to sell them to Burke. Burke was as surprised as anyone that Riddle vanished one day without leaving word (HBP20).

So we do know the first name of Burke (but not of Burke).

The locket horcrux could very well be that locket and it could have been given to the Blacks, who were NOT death eaters other then Regulus, for safe keeping/hiding by Burke, easily.

They were not Death Easters, but we find out in Order of the Phoenix (especially in that book) that they were very bad wizards. The ones who were for things like 'Muggle Rights' had their names burned off the family tapestry.

 

[va32h]

We don't know WHERE Burke is, Borgen is the only one mentioned as being in the shop any time they have been there. Also, just because they sell dark objects doesn't mean they are evil, Borgen certainly doesn't like Malfoy one bit.

The too easy comment is based on everything JKR has ever 'hinted' at in upcoming books. Most people think they are easy answers and they turn out to be something totally different. RAB is not Regulus Black, it is too obvious for her writing style.

Where in any of the books does it give Burke's first name???

The locket horcrux could very well be that locket and it could have been given to the Blacks, who were NOT death eaters other then Regulus, for safe keeping/hiding by Burke, easily.

One thing you have to remember and it was said in the books, being a bad witch/wizard doesn't automatically make you a death eater so just because someone was in Slytherin doesn't mean they are death eaters.

Half Blood Prince, Chapter 20. You can also read the full entry for Caractacus Burke in the Harry Potter Lexicon at:
http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizards/a-z/b.html

which is a fun read anytime.

Are you taking me up on the bet?

eta: Sue beat me to it!

 

[HomeSweetDisney]

JKR is just being coy about Harry biting it, I think. I can't see how she could with good conscience kill off such a beloved character, knowing how much it would affect children. I know Dumbledore and Sirius were heartbreakers, but Harry? Geez, I want to jump off a bridge just thinking about it.

I hope that is the case. But I've heard the "killing him off so no one can continue the series later on" theory too. That makes me nervous. I really, really don't want Harry to die But honestly, I think I would be more upset if Hermione was killed. She is my all time favorite character, I love her so much and I don't want anything bad to happen to her. Plus, she and Ron have to get married and have a whole houseful of red-headed kids and live happily ever after!
As for who else is going to die...I really don't want to say it, but I think someone from the Weasley family is going to die. That would break my heart but I just have a feeling about that. We already had a close call with poor Bill being mauled by Fenrir Greyback. But I think it may be Percy that dies. He's been estranged from the family since the end of GOF (or I am assuming rather, since they talk about it in OOTP after it's already happened) and maybe something will happen where he redeems himself to his family but gets killed doing it. Sad, but definitely a possibility I think.

Other possible deaths: Lucius Malfoy...I see him being killed in book 7.
Draco Malfoy...but I think he may be one of the characters who was given a reprieve by JKR as she said.
Hagrid...really would be sad to see him go, he is a very great character but he is also important to Harry and I can see Voldemort sending his followers after him.


Does anyone think Ginny Weasley may die in book 7? Harry broke up with her at the end of HBP because he didn't want Voldemort to use her to get to him, but what if Voldemort has already been made aware of their relationship? He could very easily go after her.

 

[lindalinda]

I love reading all these theories! I dont have anything new that hasnt already been discussed, but I think its very enlightening to read everyones thoughts.

 

[va32h]

On who will die:

For sure: Snape, Voldemort, Bellatrix, Wormtail and a slew of Deatheaters

Maybe: Percy, Dudley, Draco. Any of the high-profile and much-loved teachers are fair game (McGonagall, Lupin, Hagrid), and God forbid I hate to even consider it, but one or the other Weasley twin.

The ones besides Voldemort I most want to see meet their maker: Petunia and Vernon. The Dursley's are such deliciously vile characters, it would seem a shame not to have them meet a spectacular end.

JKR is just being coy about Harry biting it, I think. I can't see how she could with good conscience kill off such a beloved character, knowing how much it would affect children. I know Dumbledore and Sirius were heartbreakers, but Harry? Geez, I want to jump off a bridge just thinking about it.

The hard thing about predicting the deaths is that when then have to speculate about who's doing the killing - and that begs the question, which of our good guys has the capacity to kill?

Of course killling in self-defense isn't murder, but the only killing curse we know is AK - and I don't know if any of the younger Hogwart's Heroes are capable of summoning up the hatred you need to deliver an AK.

You just know Dumbledore would want everyone but Voldy rounded up and sent to reform school or something.

Voldy has to die, Snape pretty much has to die too. Wormtail also owes Harry a debt, and I think death is the only way to redeem his character also.

But I could see Bellatrix living or dying.

I think Draco will live - and will have mended his ways and usher in a new era of peace between Slytherins and Gryffindors.

A Weasley will probably die - Percy is the one most people like the least, so we can spare him. Although he can conveniently reconcile with his family shortly before death.

I predict the Durselys will survive. It reminds me of The Princess Bride by William Goldman. The obnoxious prince lives, and the little boy in the story is all "what? That's not fair!" But I think it will be so with the Dursleys. Maybe Petunia will become self-aware enough to realize how badly she treated Harry and make amends.

Among our good guys - I am positive Harry will live. Actually, the whole trio, plus Ginny, Neville and Luna. And Arthur and Molly. And Hagrid. Lupin and Tonks, too.

I am terribly optimistic! That still leaves us with lots of "names" that could die. Kingsley Shacklebolt, McGonnagal, Flitwick, Sprout. I think at least one teacher will die. One big character from the good side. Maybe Dean Thomas, Seamus? It's hard to even think about the students dying.

But I do think Hagrid was the one JKR spared. She couldn't leave Harry without any of his beloved father figures!

I don't want Umbridge to be killed, but I want her to be stripped of all power and end up as Dobby's assistant or something equally humiliating.

 

[astarr]

Love this thread! Now I am going to have to go back and re-read so I can comment.

 

[Micheme]

Since I brought it up here is my take on who dies

Snape - has to, Rowling follows such an old mythological storyline of a hero, that Snape HAS to be the one who sacrifices himself for the greater good.

Hagrid/Lupin/Order members - one if not more will go in order to push Harry and his merry band to the forefront of the fight and take them from childhood into adulthood. They'll have to step up and fight the ultimate battle. I see a lot of order members being cut down. (Although i don't see Mr or Mrs Weasley that would be too cruel of JK on Harry, come on hasn't the poor boy lost enough parental figures)

Dumbledore's army- I don't see Ron, Ginnie or Hermonie dying but I think the other members are fair game and it will happen. They all can't come out unscathed. Now the only other one is Neville who i think is a great wizard with no confidence (can you blame him, geesh he's been thru a lot) and will not die but get a chance to shine when you almost think he is done.

hmmm Malfoy - not sure still thinking about this one.

 

[WeirdTigger27]

Who are you calling a muggle! I'm a witch thank you very much!

I figure Neville is going to bite it next because she keeps aiming for my favorites. I just finished OotP again this afternoon.

 

[HomeSweetDisney]

Of course killling in self-defense isn't murder, but the only killing curse we know is AK - and I don't know if any of the younger Hogwart's Heroes are capable of summoning up the hatred you need to deliver an AK.

That is exactly why I think JKR is going to kill someone really close to Harry. If he feels that much anger and hatred towards Voldemort I think he could be capable of performing AK. I think there's a darker side to Harry, not evil, just the side of him that is still resentful of how he grew up and this very heavy burden that has been placed on him. Add that into the someone close to him getting murdered equation and I think he could do AK. But at the same time I have a feeling JKR will have Harry kill Voldemort using the powerful magic Dumbledore always told Harry made him unique and powerful...love. That's kind of been the running theme, especially in HBP. DD practically made it a mantra.

I think Draco will live - and will have mended his ways and usher in a new era of peace between Slytherins and Gryffindors.

I really want Draco to redeem himself and turn to the good side. I really, really do. I like Draco. I have always felt pity for him. I think underneath the sneering, pretentious facade he really is just a scared kid who was thrust into a life he never really wanted. So to see him change his ways would be a tiny, little dream of mine. I don't see him suddenly becoming a sweetheart or anything, I think he would still retain some of the snobbery and the cool, effortless confidence he usually exhibits but I can see him grudgingly coming to a truce with the trio if they are willing.

I don't want Umbridge to be killed, but I want her to be stripped of all power and end up as Dobby's assistant or something equally humiliating.

I STILL get chills everytime I read those scenes with the pen that carves into Harry's hand from OOTP. Umbridge was a vile, mean hearted woman and I would love nothing more than to see karma work its wiles on her. And she is a perfect example of the "you can be mean without being evil" concept. Umbridge would never support Voldemort and isn't truly evil but she is MEAN and horrible to people who don't fit into her pyramid of how things should be in her world. What a nasty piece of work she is though!

 

[HomeSweetDisney]

I figure Neville is going to bite it next because she keeps aiming for my favorites. I just finished OotP again this afternoon.

I honestly don't know what I'm going to do if JKR kills off such a beloved character as Neville. She really threw me for a loop when she killed Sirius in OOTP. I BAWLED my eyes out at the end of that book! It was awful. I was so upset because I had gotten so excited thinking "Oh, now Harry will have someone as close to a dad as can be and he won't have to live with the Dursley's anymore" but then bam! It was so sad With HBP I was very upset when Dumbledore died and I still cried because DD was such an amazing character, but I was truly expecting it. I just had a feeling that he was going to die. But when she killed Sirius I wasn't expecting that at all.

 

[WeirdTigger27]

I honestly don't know what I'm going to do if JKR kills off such a beloved character as Neville. She really threw me for a loop when she killed Sirius in OOTP. I BAWLED my eyes out at the end of that book! It was awful. I was so upset because I had gotten so excited thinking "Oh, now Harry will have someone as close to a dad as can be and he won't have to live with the Dursley's anymore" but then bam! It was so sad With HBP I was very upset when Dumbledore died and I still cried because DD was such an amazing character, but I was truly expecting it. I just had a feeling that he was going to die. But when she killed Sirius I wasn't expecting that at all.

I still cry when I read it. I didn't have to work today, so I made sure I finished the book before I had to go back so I wasn't caught crying over it. I enjoy reading OotP, up until I start getting towards the end, especially when I get to the Department of Mysteries chapter. That's when I start counting pages, and I *still* cry! My DH and I were flying back east from AZ just after OotP came out and we had already read it. He was listing to GoF on his iPod and trying to be nice he asked me if I wanted to listen to the chapter called "Padfoot Returns". I just started crying again, saying that he's dead so he can't return. I'm such a baby sometimes. I really hope that Neville at least can have some kind of triumph against Bellatrix. I'd love to have at her myself.

I wasn't surprised that Dumbledore died, but I was hoping that it wouldn't happen anyway. DH reads a lot faster than I do. (I get mental images as I read, he doesn't.) When HBP came out I read though the night after it came out, and yet he stayed ahead of me, and made sure he did when he knew that Dumbledore was going to die because he knew I was going to be upset. I've always loved Dumbledore. Trying to rescue Draco even though he was supose to kill him.

Anyone else listen to Mugglecast and/or Pottercast? Just wondering.

 

[HomeSweetDisney]

Anyone else listen to Mugglecast and/or Pottercast? Just wondering.

I listen to Mugglecast! I have a subscrition for iTunes. I need to catch up on the last couple of episodes though which I plan on doing this weekend.


Okay, can I just say, I think Neville has one of the saddest storylines in the series. My heart absolutely broke for him in the scene in OOTP at St.Mungo's. Having parents who were tortured into insanity and have no idea who you are or even who they are is so sad. And the thing with the bubble gum wrappers? So tragic

Did you read the Mugglenet interview with JKR? It's super long but SO incredibly interesting. But anyway, in that interview they talk about that scene and she says where she got the inspiration for that part.

 

[CobraBubbles]

Hi everyone! This is my kind of thread!

Referring to deaths in the next book, I definitely think a Weasley will die, but I'm not sure which one. Molly's clock-thing has been going crazy though with danger, and there's been much forshadowing.

It might be Percy, but I'd reckon it'll be one of the twins, and will be heartbreaking.

---

I think that either Draco will go to the bad side for good, or will end up getting killed in the process of trying to do the right thing (probaby by his father) or end up killing his father...one of those two scenarios

---

Snape will have to die, and Harry will find out too late that he was wrong (as always in every book) about Snape - and that he should have listened to the people who are always the smartest, and rightest (Hermione, Dumbledore, and Lupin). It will be heartbreaking too.

---

I worry about Lupin.

 

[HomeSweetDisney]

I worry about Lupin.

Welcome to the Burrow

And I know what you mean about Lupin. He is such an interesting character. He's definitely someone who has been there for Harry since day 1. I think even before Sirius, Harry felt extremely close to Lupin because he was such good friends with his parents and so there was that connection. And Lupin is just an all around good guy. He accepts his role in the wizarding society as well, pretty much an outcast being part werewolf but accepts it with not a whole lot of anger or bitterness. I think he has had a long time to come to grips with the cards he has been dealt. Which is why I was SO happy when the Lupin/Tonks relationship came into play. That was a couple that I hadn't really seen coming but when it did come it just made a lot of sense. I'm glad he finally gave in at the end of HBP because I think Tonks is exactly what he needs in life. So since things are going well for him I do worry that JKR may kill him in book 7. That would be really awful though There are only 3 father figures Harry has left anymore: Hagrid, Arthur Weasley, and Lupin. So I'd really like to see him survive through book 7.