Much to your chagrin...

[raidermatt]

...I have returned!!! Some random thoughts...

Was at the BWV from 5/25-6/8 and the trip did nothing but reaffirm my car 1 status.

Saw Spetcro, Figment, and got pictures with Lilo and Stitch on Saturday.

Found the Singin' in the Rain umbrella and am happy to say it was fully functional.

Apparently, we just missed the re-opening of Carousel and Timekeeper, which is too bad, but hopefully they will continue to open during peak times.

BAH is an excellent icon, and beautiful at night.

Saw workers climbing around on Space.

Saw Pop Century from the road.

While I'm not completely convinced Dinorama belongs in AK, or couldn't have been better, it is still a nice addition to the park. I frankly went expecting to come away with a negative opinion, but it just didn't happen. PW really is a lot of fun, and I know that's not all we expect from Disney, but it is much better done than I expected.

Shula's is awesome. As good a steak as I've ever had.

Of course the usual suspects were great, including Tower, Pirates, Peter Pan, the Mountains, Kilamanjaro, Fantasmic, Illuminations, Tapestry of Dreams, etc etc etc.... But since this was only our second trip to WDW, there were some things we saw for the first time that we particularly enjoyed:

Hunchback show
Cranium Command
Wave Pool at TL
All of the new parades
Tarzan Rocks
Festival of the Lion King

Transportation was great. Never waited more than 10-15 minutes for a bus/boat, and ususally 5 or less. However, it would be very "Magical" if AK could get some other transportation to it other than busses. Its the only park we couldn't take boat/monorail to. Not a time issue, but just a "Magic" issue...

Of course I'll happy to answer any questions, or provide more worthless opinions....

 

[toefungus]

How were crowds and the lines??

 

[raidermatt]

We were in the parks at some point almost every day from Sunday 5/26 through Saturday 6/8.

We were a little surprised at how light the crowds were the first week, including Sunday and Monday of Memorial Day weekend. We rarely saw any posted wait times over 60 minutes, and those were easily avoided by using FastPass. Most posted waits were 30 or less, which really means 20 or less.

Things were definitely picking up the second week. Walkways were getting more crowded at all of the parks, and we started seeing wait times over an hour.

Still, by using FastPass, we never waited longer than 20 mintues for any attraction.

One thing I noticed on this trip is that people are getting FastPasses and then waiting at the FastPass entrance for their window to open. Not only is this a waste of their time, it causes traffic problems in the more crowded areas, like outside Buzz and Peter Pan.

Of course, there are huge crowds if your trying to see Spectro, but maybe that will get better now that there are more showings. We had planned on heading to MK on Sat 6/1 because it was going to be our only chance to see it, but fortunately they added a Spectro on 5/31, so we saw that one and just stayed at Epcot on 6/1. 5/31 was still crowded, but I'm sure 6/1 was much worse.

 

[raidermatt]

Well, it was the first parade I'd ever went to that passed an offering plate!

Seriously though, I'm sure somebody will point out how in reality, we only believed our guest experience was being enhanced, and that this was all part of some ploy to get us to buy more plush at Downtown Disney...

 

[mrtoadslastride]

Originally posted by thedscoop
Welcome back Matt!

Sounds like you had a great trip!

Hey, why do you think WDW decided to add the previously, unscheduled 5/31 Spectro showing?

Were you charged extra for this? Did the WDW cast members agree to waive their pay for this? Do you think adding this extra Spectro increased the costs for operating WDW on May 31, 2002?
If so, were there any characters outside the entrances ringing bells and asking for voluntary contributions by guests to offset the increased costs of adding this Spectro? Was there an exit fee instead maybe?

And, finally, did adding this Spectro increase or decrease the guest experience that day?

Just curious. No ulterior motives at all. Nope, just curious....

Maybe if they hadn't cut Spectro to a couple of times a week they wouldn't have had to add it on 5/31. We were in WDW 5/25-29 and there was only one night we could catch Spectro. We took our niece and had to spend an extra $50 because we weren't planning on going in the parks on our first day (didn't arrive until 5), but since there was only 1 show we had to buy an extra day for her. I really don't like having to plan my trip around the occasional Spectro show. Is Spectro any less popular than Illuminations or Fantasmic? Why haven't they been cut back to a couple of nights a week? If it is just because management knows that guests will abandon MGM and Epcot after dark if there isn't a show. If so, it just shows that they are trying to cut visitor experience as much as possible without affecting the money spent by guests.

 

[Bob O]

Im glad you had a great time!!!!!

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Mr. Matt (or Sir Raider, if you prefer),

Welcome back!! I’m glad you enjoyed yourself. I know the feeling well!!

Was at the BWV from 5/25-6/8 and the trip did nothing but reaffirm my car 1 status.

Yep! I know what you mean. Now don’t tell anyone, but I leap into car #1 whenever I’m there!! I have a unique ability to push most of the nonsense into the background and just go with the flow (although I’m not shy about visiting guest services every now and then). I enjoy my family and we make our own magic (not that Disney doesn’t help out quite a bit still). Which is why I can empathize with my good friend the Pirate (or Captain) when he says that Disney still holds the magic because his kids enjoy it so!!

It’s only when I get back and reflect on the way things used to be and the obvious (and rather radical) change in philosophy that I get back into the driver’s seat of car #3!! And I really can’t understand how anyone could possibly feel differently! I’m really not kidding, or setting up a huge debate. It is really how I feel.

But since this was only our second trip to WDW, there were some things we saw for the first time that we particularly enjoyed

Well!!! This little tidbit took me by surprise. You probably mentioned it before and I wasn’t paying attention. I thought you were a long time seasoned veteran!

So it got me to thinking (a dangerous thing in the best of times). When I (or any old-timer) posts that things are radically different today from the philosophy that they used to employ, what are your thoughts on the subject? Do you believe it? Do you totally disregard it? Do you give it any consideration at all? In other words, what’s your base line? To what do you refer when judging whether or not Disney is living up to its standards? (a subject that is kicked around here quite a bit.)

Seriously though, I'm sure somebody will point out how in reality, we only believed our guest experience was being enhanced, and that this was all part of some ploy to get us to buy more plush at Downtown Disney...

Lately, very sadly, it is certainly the way it seems.

 

[raidermatt]

Mr. Matt (or Sir Raider, if you prefer),

Matt is fine, until the Raiders win another Super Bowl, anyway...

...I really can’t understand how anyone could possibly feel differently! I’m really not kidding, or setting up a huge debate. It is really how I feel.

While I may not agree with everything you say, believe me, I do not doubt your sincerity or passion.

When I (or any old-timer) posts that things are radically different today from the philosophy that they used to employ, what are your thoughts on the subject? Do you believe it? Do you totally disregard it? Do you give it any consideration at all?

No way I can disregard comments/opinions from WDW old-timers. For example, your comments on another thread about park hours being less now than pre-1998. You (and others) have certainly proven your sincerity and honesty in the past, so I take it as being fact without trying to dig up old info in some dank corner of the web.

In other words, what’s your base line? To what do you refer when judging whether or not Disney is living up to its standards? (a subject that is kicked around here quite a bit.)

Well, while my first trip to WDW was in 2000, I was fortunate enough to get to make some trips to DL in the 70's and 80's, as a little tyke and through my college years. Most of the pre-1986 dates in my signature are guesses, and I may have even missed one or two. Certainly I look at things differently at 33 than I did at 8, but I did grow up with the belief that DL was the absolute most wonderful place in the world.

So my frame of reference is a bit different, and perhaps less complete than others here, but its rooted in the same love for Disney.

I also try to keep an open mind on the various issues. I certainly look at things with a more critical eye than I did prior to getting insights from you, AV, Pirate, Captain, BobO, Show, hopemax, Jeff, etc, etc, etc,....

But to me, the heart of the magic is still there in Peter Pan, Pirates, and most other places I turn. I can feel it in most of Animal Kingdom, and while I understand the points the car 3'ers make, to me, they are merely small chinks in the armor. I know that not everything Disney is doing lives up to the true Disney standard. (I've made that clear on several occaisions, including the "walk time memo") But there is still so much that does! Additions as recent as Splash and most of AK. Things that are below the Disney line, but still above just about anyone else's line (like Dinorama) cannot damage the Magic enough to move me out of car #1.

Its sort of like throwing rocks at The Great Wall. Yeah, eventually it will start to crumble, but after how long? Walt created such a huge "Great Wall of Magic", that either the rocks have got to get a lot bigger (like permanently closing Jungle Cruise without an adequate replacement), or I'm just going to cruise along in car #1 and enjoy the ride.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

But to me, the heart of the magic is still there in Peter Pan, Pirates, and most other places I turn. I can feel it in most of Animal Kingdom, and while I understand the points the car 3'ers make, to me, they are merely small chinks in the armor. I know that not everything Disney is doing lives up to the true Disney standard.

Now, I quoted the whole paragraph because I want you to know that I agree with your first thought on it. YES!!! Peter Pan, Pirates, and almost 95% of the stuff they have there I LOVE!!! It’s the next little bit I have a problem with. There was a time when there were no chinks in the armor. Does that mean that Disney did everything perfectly? NO!! Of course not. Many, many, many mistakes were made. Just mention the Garden Wings or The Golf Resort (which I still think was NOT a mistake) and you know what I mean. But those were mistakes!! Plain and simple. They were not motivated by greed or a spreadsheet. You somehow knew, right down to your socks, that Disney was trying it’s ever-living best to exceed your expectations. To WOW(!!) you every chance it got. To be the absolute best it could possibly be no matter what the competition did or what their guests would allow them to get away with (Damn the cost, full speed ahead)!!!

I don’t know about you, but Dinorama doesn’t fill me with that kind of feeling. I don’t see it as an honest mistake at all. I see it as a trend. A trend that says, “Hmmm. If they buy this garbage, I’ll bet they’ll even pay for this swill’! And you know what? Most of the time they’re right!! Pretty sad, isn’t it?

Its sort of like throwing rocks at The Great Wall. Yeah, eventually it will start to crumble, but after how long? Walt created such a huge "Great Wall of Magic", that either the rocks have got to get a lot bigger (like permanently closing Jungle Cruise without an adequate replacement), or I'm just going to cruise along in car #1 and enjoy the ride.

What a beautiful analogy!!! That’s perfect!

Now picture (if you will) a brand new, pure, perfect and pristine wall. Newly built! Innovative. Creative. Built to stand the test of time. And that is certainly the way one can envision Walt’s philosophy. And today, as I look at that wall, it looks similar to the wall which stands today in China. A great big portion of it still stand (which is why I haven’t sold my DVD interest). But it has taken a beating!!! A severe beating. It is weathered and crumbling. I can still stand in its majesty when I’m there, but it isn’t even close to the same as when it was new. And it looks, at times, that all that’s needed is a strong wind and it’ll come right down!

 

[DisDuck]

Baron.. How do you know that the Garden Wing &/or The Golf Resort were not motivated by money? Being motivated by money is not always a 'bad' thing.

When I get back from my end of June trip, I will let you know if I see any scratches in the 'wall'.

 

[space42]

Anyone know when the heck the garden wings were added to the Contemporary anyway? I know they were not always there.

 

[DisDuck]

I know they were there in July 1986 as I stayed in one at $110/night.

 

[Another Voice]

The Garden Wings were added to increase the capacity at the Contemporary Resort. Back in the day (for Mr. DisDuck, back in the dark olden days filled with nothing but us old farts), the Con was by far the most popular hotel. In the seventies, the hotel really represented the sleek future we had all been promised in the sixties. The design of the buildings reflected the Tower’s design and was really very impressive for the time. Again, that fashion hasn’t aged well mostly because it’s now seen in every industrial park throughout the country.

The Golf Resort was intentionally designed as a non-Disney, non-themed resort to cater to people not interested in the theme parks. At the time, people took vacations – today people go to WDW for a “brand experience”. It was a different time that had different requirements.

 

[Bstanley]

The Golf Resort was intentionally designed as a non-Disney, non-themed resort to cater to people not interested in the theme parks. At the time, people took vacations – today people go to WDW for a “brand experience”. It was a different time that had different requirements.

This is something that continues to baffle me about WDW. There are many things to do there that have nothing to do with visiting the Theme Parks. But whenever you talk to folks about visiting WDW they only talk about visiting the Theme Parks.

Which came first - the chicken or the egg?

Did Disney stop trying to convince people to visit WDW as a 'Resort' and people stopped coming for that reason, or was it that no one was coming for the 'Resort' so Disney stopped trying to convince them?

 

[DisDuck]

Bstanley.. never thought of it just that way. Good idea. Maybe that is why the AllStars and now Pop Century were built. Could be most people now come for the Theme Parks and the resorts are just a place to sleep (hang your hat so to speak). Except of course to some here who believe that the resort itself is a destination.

Question for that crew... If there were NO THEME PARKS would you still go to the Disney Resorts, deluxes or moderates?

 

[raidermatt]

A great big portion of it still stand (which is why I haven’t sold my DVD interest). But it has taken a beating!!! A severe beating. It is weathered and crumbling.

I understand perfectly what you are saying, I just disagree with the condition of the Wall. It's not crumbling. I can see warning signs, but the structure is still sound and wonderful, and I see reasons to believe Magic is still being created.

It will take more than a few years of spreadsheets to really do any damage. Besides, without the financially prudent side (Roy O.), things can fall apart quicker than they would with a few years without great creativity.

 

[All Aboard]

If there were NO THEME PARKS would you still go to the Disney Resorts, deluxes or moderates?

Absolutely not. The resort is ancillary to the total experience. The are part of the whole (an important part) but without the theme parks would serve no function for me.

I am not a "passive" vacationer, I need activity. "Going to the beach" is not my type of vacation. (perhaps because I can see one from my office window - well, sort of.)

That's one of the reasons that the All Stars and Moderates serve me perfectly. I spend the lion's share of my waking hours at WDW in the theme parks. To me, the resort is a bed and closet.

I can't bring myself to drop $150+ a night to stay in a deluxe. I'd feel compelled to spend time at the resort in order to "get my money's worth." And that's just not how I want to spend my time at WDW. Perhaps one day, but not now.

 

[daannzzz]

"Question for that crew... If there were NO THEME PARKS would you still go to the Disney Resorts, deluxes or moderates?"

I definatley would go to Disney's resorts. i would stay at all levels at different times. BUT I would not stay nearly as long. I am not oneof those who goes on vacation to sit at the pool or beach and read. There is a pool in my back yard the beach is less than an hour away and books are on the shelf in my room. I have to go do stuff on vacation even if it is just driving around.
Staying at a Disney resort would be great for a 2-3 days but I would have to move on if there was nothing in the area to go do.

 

[mrtoadslastride]

Originally posted by DisDuck

Question for that crew... If there were NO THEME PARKS would you still go to the Disney Resorts, deluxes or moderates?

I would probably still visit, but maybe just once ever 5-10 years instead of every chance I get. Obviously WDW, without the parks would have to have some other draw (golf, gambling?). Part of the answer to this question would be what that draw would be. WDW doesn't have the location to live make money on just the Resorts, put them in the Carribean or Gulf Coast and they would.

 

[YoHo]

I would still Go. To me the Poly has some of the best themeing in the entire place, but certainly it would not draw me quite the way the complete package does. And really I'm not the kind of person who does all the extra curicular activities except Pleasure Island.

to me it's like a night on the town, except the hotel rooms are still cheaper and so are the meals.