Mousesavers "BASH" DVC!!

[tamu91]

Mary's article is what helped me to buy into DVC over Marriott, HGVC and others Knowing that I can rent out points if we decided to skip a year was the clincher. Banking is an option but having several options at my disposal is what sold me to DVC.
I see tons of timeshares for rent on the internet, dirt cheap mind you (FF Bonnett Creek, HGVC, Marriott) that goes unsold. Not so with DVC.
It probably was not possible years ago before the internet but I don't see why people think DVC doesn't make sense, financially I'm not a financial guru but I work with numbers and it makes sense to me

 

[Y-ASK]

The 150 point buy in minimum gives you, frankly, too many points (!)

This is a great observation and one the I agree with completely. The minimum buy in should be 80 points, which of course is just my opinion.

Y-ASK

 

[SpoonfulofSugar]

Keep in mid that that part of that 18-21% is bed tax and helps fuel the CVB and local tourist economy. Now of course with Disney and Universal being in Orlando, they don't need it as much as other cities, but where do you draw the line? I don't think the OP's point was whether or not DVC is for everyone, but more that the article was deceiving.

The 18-21% is the interest paid on the credit card balance, not the tax added to the room rate. At 9.75%, and with the interest deductable for income tax purposes, there is a much greater benefit financing your vacations long term, than expanding your credit card debt.
When we bought DVC, my husband said flat out this isn't an investment, and we're not going to make money on it. It's a prepaid vaction plan that allows you to spread out the cost of your vactions.
Mousesavers sole purpose is to look for ways to save money on Disney. Period. Outlaying 12-15 thousand dollars is not a way to save money on a trip to Disney. DVC is not a way to save money, (although a point can be made that it does), it is a way to spread out the costs and stay in much nicer accomodations.

 

[sleepydog25]

Outlaying 12-15 thousand dollars is not a way to save money on a trip to Disney. DVC is not a way to save money, (although a point can be made that it does), it is a way to spread out the costs and stay in much nicer accomodations.

Well, if a family wants to save money, then they shouldn't be looking at vacationing at Disney at all! Although I agree with your basic assessment--that the costs are spread out for DVC members--the whole issue is one of semantics. If a family is reasonably certain they will take vacations routinely over the course of the next X number of years (especially WDW vacations), and if each time they attempt to "save" money by looking for discounts, then that's not essentially any different than searching for that "discount" DVC offers by paying more up front and cutting your costs on the back end. Given an equal amount of vacations and similar accomodations (yes, yes, that's an argument unto itself ), then over the years it's likely the DVC owners will wind up "saving" money vs. those who seek annual discounts. BTW, I love this topic.

I loved it what you said! Especially the last paragraph... It was sweet and beautiful and so true. It is exactly MY sentiment and of many here on the boards.

Thanks, Sarhenty, for your kind and gracious words. . .

 

[Joni]

I agree with everything sleepydog25 had to say. When we bought at BWV and BCV we didn't even know about renting points. We knew we would save a lot of money staying where we wanted to using DVC. We go to Disney every year and love the ease of having our own points to use for whatever we want. We even talked our friends into buying when we got home from a trip without them ever seeing BWV. I can't say we figured all the costs as much as Mary did. We just knew when we left from our vacation we would have no room costs which was most of our vacation cost. If we did not buy DVC we probably would have never rented points unless I knew who we were renting from. I don't deal in the unknown very well. My husband and I don't dwell on every nickel and dime. If we go out to dinner once in a while we spend close to $100.00 each time without thinking about it. Needless to say we don't go out much and spend most of our income on our kids and our home. So I feel DVC is something we own and its there every year for us. I don't feel the mf are to much to ask of us but it does keep me from buying to many points. We now have 600 points and it fine for us now but we don't want to over extend ourselves later. I guess I'm trying to say that DVC works for us. It is a fun, safe, beautiful place where we can go and enjoy the parks, great dining, or even do nothing at all. I think it will fit us for many years. Joni

 

[deerh]

I see Mousesavers point, but I STILL think she is somewhat "Skewed" on her views.

She is Assuming that dues will go up 3.14%/year, and you all know what
ASSuming means! She also does not include the rates of DVC WILL go up in the next 40+ years as well. She did not state all the "facts" of Dvc.

I agreee as DVC may not be for everyone, but could you say that for every
timeshare as well?? Marriott, etc.

As Clark Howard says here in Atlanta, a timeshare is not worth it if you do not use it. He is a "consumer guru" here in Atlanta.

DeerH

 

[Dean]

In many ways that's not an apples to apples comparison either. I think one should compare to what you'd get without DVC and possibly to the costs of an off site top quality timeshare. Then take into account what you hope to do without DVC (moderate, WL, AKL, etc). Comparing to the suites gives a very high and false value unless that's what you would pay for otherwise.

I don't see it as a slam and I've said essentially the same things many times.

• consider the lost income on investment and/or interest paid if you do finance - check
• Compare to what YOU would spend without DVC - check
• Account for the dues - check
• Buy to use at DVC only - check

The other item not pointed out in this overview on Mousesavers, is that of weekend points. From a dollars standpoints, DVC only makes sense to use the points at DVC resorts, go light on weekends and buy cash. If one wants to pay for the feeling, that's cool, just be honest and don't try to justify the cost by doing stupid comparisons like to DVC rack rates unless that's what you're going to pay if you don't buy. The ONLY exchange options that makes sense financially is that of a very small subset of II exchanges during peak times.

I know it's not usually cool to quote oneself but I did it for a reason. rocketriter wondered whether my negative sentences were directed at him. For the record, absolutely not. I was merely generalizing considering previous discussions we've had on this subject. Thus the stupid comparison was to those in general who compare to DVC rack rates, I stand by that feeling as a general statement but there may be variables like Xmas. IF, not that I would, but if one is comparing to a a suite, the rack rate is probably reasonable in that instance as I doubt they discount them very much, the same is usually NOT true for DVC units.

Some of the above posts are very funny. The idea that one shouldn't worry what the cost is seems funny to me. What one should worry about is the value which includes cost and may be different for you than for me. And since one can easily rent DVC, one can enjoy it without necessarily buying. Thus the choice for many is not whether to DVC or NOT DVC but whether to buy or rent for some people. I guess I don't understand the idea of buying into the club to get a sense of belonging. I own DVC to make the most of it for MY family. I can get the Disney Magic and still control the costs. It is true that one spends a lot of money at WDW even if the accommodations were free. But to say one shouldn't worry about the cost because it's expensive anyway just seems very aloof and likely irresponsible.

And one last point is that usually when these issues come up we're talking about buying DVC, not already owning it. The two are totally different. Not much different than deciding whether to hold a stock you already own vs buy it new; totally different set points. I stand by the points I made above and similar to those on Mousesavers. But they apply to buying, not already owning. If one owns, then you have to decide whether keeping DVC or selling it is best, a totally different discussion, IMO.

As for the dues, I think an assumption of 3-3.5% per year is a little low. One should likely assume more in the 4-5% per year AND no resale value down the road.

 

[Laurajean1014]

It's not the nicest thing you can say about DVC - she left a bunch of things out, but I didn't take it personally.

Hey, less DVCers means for ressies for me.

 

[GrimGhost]

......... but it seems ironic given the recent changes to the AP program.

This is EXACLTY where I was going to go!

 

[OneMoreTry]

I am the first to admit that I am not sure DVC makes financial sense for me. HOWEVER, you also have to consider the investment in yourself and your family... hard to put a price tag on that.

Same here. I bought for owning a piece of Disney -- it was psychological. And to "lock in the vacation" as she says.

I'm glad she brings up the points she does. People need to think about their purchase. It balances all the positives they hear from DVC sales reps. Hopefully, it will keep some from making a financial mistake.

We could definitely have cheaper WDW vacations than with DVC, but they would be uncomfortable.

She fails to compare to other timeshares. Although that's not her purpose. I wouldn't be surprised if it's #1 for holding it's resale value -- as long as Disney continues to build and sell, and therefore needs to exercise its ROFR. Seems like that will go on for quite a while with all the plans ahead.

Even if all that's left is the "rental" market, the value of points will be maintained. If I rented mine for $10 pp and account for my dues, I would get about 10% return on the "capital" each year before taxes. But I'd have to be pretty desperate to rent.



The value of DVC is closely tied to the value of Disney. If Disney drops so does DVC. Although I think HH resort would still have popularity and appeal.

 

[vascubaguy]

I was toying around with some costs earlier today because I am considering DVC. However, I'm also thinking about just renting points and avoiding the upfront costs of DVC.

From my estimates, if I were to buy resale and use all of the points each year (and assuming the MF's stayed constant), the overall total costs of points would be about $6-7 (this is for all of the points that would be included in the contract... example: 50 x 36 years). If I could rent the points for $9-10 per point, it almost seems worthwhile to just go that route.

I'm also considering just trying to get 50 points at say OKW and then rent additional (or add on later).

I do, however, think that there is many other things missing from that analogy. I mean the accomodations for an All-Stars resort doesn't come close to comparing to that of a DVC. And for a 4 night stay at ASmo you'd be looking at $350 during value season... You could rent 40 points for about $400 and stay 4 nights at OKW...

Geez, just thinking about it makes me want to buy now!!!

 

[SoCalKDG]

I was toying around with some costs earlier today because I am considering DVC. However, I'm also thinking about just renting points and avoiding the upfront costs of DVC.

From my estimates, if I were to buy resale and use all of the points each year (and assuming the MF's stayed constant), the overall total costs of points would be about $6-7 (this is for all of the points that would be included in the contract... example: 50 x 36 years). If I could rent the points for $9-10 per point, it almost seems worthwhile to just go that route.

Just remember that the cost to rent will go up. So if you rent for the next 5 years, and the rental cost is suddenly $13 per point, then that gap widens. Additionally the longer you wait to buy, the more expensive it gets to buy those points. I bought resale at BWV 9 months ago for $74(final cost after all the xtras). It would now cost $85(or $92 though Disney). Your idea of buying a small contract and renting to supplement might be a good way to go. A nice 100 pt. contract at OKW wouldn't be bad.

 

[simpilotswife]

Mary's advice was actually pretty reasonable. I also felt the same way that she did before we bought. Why buy when you can stay cheaper elsewhere? She's correct.

DVC does save money maybe not always as much as you think but that is not where its beauty lay. The beauty lay in the way you can vacation. DVC puts deluxe accommodations in the hands of its owners. That advantage cannot be measured in dollars and cents.

 

[lovesdisney]

Doesn't bother me - everyone is entitled to their view, right of free speech and all that! Also, not all decisions made in life are purely about money and DVC is one of those decisions, for me at any rate!!!!

 

[bcvillastwo]

I think the OP is wrong, mousesaves isn't "bashing" DVC. Instead mousesavers appears to be trying to help people find the most economical way to visit WDW. At least that's how I've always viewed Mousesavers. But, many of the posters are correct in that Mousesavers probably didn't do the best job at presenting the overall DVC picture.

With that said, everyone has their own perspective on whether DVC makes sense for them. For some the financial aspect is most important, for others it the investment in family, for others its a bit of both and so on.

But, as so many have said so many times DVC only makes sense (financially) if you are already visiting WDW at least once every two years and you tend to stay in moderate or better resorts (on property). Oh, I guess it goes without saying the you start the analysis by first loving to go to WDW. Once you've decided that you love WDW, you prefer to stay on site at moderate or better resorts and you go at least once every two years, then you are probably in the best position to start you own personal analysis of why DVC is (or isn't) a good deal for your particular circumstances.

 

[Dean]

I was toying around with some costs earlier today because I am considering DVC. However, I'm also thinking about just renting points and avoiding the upfront costs of DVC.

From my estimates, if I were to buy resale and use all of the points each year (and assuming the MF's stayed constant), the overall total costs of points would be about $6-7 (this is for all of the points that would be included in the contract... example: 50 x 36 years). If I could rent the points for $9-10 per point, it almost seems worthwhile to just go that route.

I'm also considering just trying to get 50 points at say OKW and then rent additional (or add on later).

I do, however, think that there is many other things missing from that analogy. I mean the accomodations for an All-Stars resort doesn't come close to comparing to that of a DVC. And for a 4 night stay at ASmo you'd be looking at $350 during value season... You could rent 40 points for about $400 and stay 4 nights at OKW...

Geez, just thinking about it makes me want to buy now!!!

Every situation is different. One should compare to their previous habits and then to what they'd like to do if they could afford it. If you usually do long weekends, your comparison will be different from my usual Sunday to Friday stays. But don't forget to include increasing dues, lost income on the money spent and/or interest paid if you finance. And using the rack rate is not reasonable to compare unless you are looking at something that's essentially never discounted.

I think the idea of buying a small contract and then renting to transfer in points when needed is a very sound idea for many people. It gives you access to all of the benefits of ownership and if you can plan accordingly, allows you to take advantage of some relatively distressed points as well as the limitation of the DVC computer handling transferred points. And while they may "fix" this quirk of the system, they've been "working on it" since at least 1999 so I wouldn't hold my breath. This method also minimizes the problem of owning at some of the higher dues resorts like VB.

 

[JimFitz]

And then there's the reality that a DVC contract does have value of its own. I our finances went south tomorrow, I could sell my SSR points for more than I paid less than two years ago (based upon the listings at TTS.)

This is the mentality that is going to burn many DVC members. Relying on the ability to sell their contract and make some money when they need the extra cash is not a smart idea. Once ROFR goes, DVC contracts will be selling for next to nothing like the majority of resale timeshares.

 

[deerh]

BY: BVillas two:I think the OP is wrong, mousesaves isn't "bashing" DVC. Instead mousesavers appears to be trying to help people find the most economical way to visit WDW. At least that's how I've always viewed Mousesavers. But, many of the posters are correct in that Mousesavers probably didn't do the best job at presenting the overall DVC picture.

I think "bash" may be a wrong term, BUT she did not state ALL the facts. I am a science teacher, and want the facts, not "skewed" toward how you want the facts to be interpreted. All I am saying is she does not take into account the rise in rates over the next 44 years or so, and only talks about dues going up.
She needs to state ALL the facts, not "skewed' toward NOT buying DVC which is what she is saying...

Just the facts, ma'am.......


DeerH

 

[bcvillastwo]

This is a little, but not completely, off topic. The prevous poster made the following comment.

This is the mentality that is going to burn many DVC members. Relying on the ability to sell their contract and make some money when they need the extra cash is not a smart idea. Once ROFR goes, DVC contracts will be selling for next to nothing like the majority of resale timeshares.

I completely agree that if someone is "counting on" being able to sell their contract at some point in the future and make some money that's probably not a good strategy in the long run. However, with that said, the above quoted post suggests that Disney is going to stop the ROFR process at some point. I'm curious, while this could occur what is the likelihood that it will. At this point Disney has used ROFR for a good while to keep the prices up. I may be wrong but I would think that they would continue to do so at least until they completely stop building new DVC places. Even then, why would they stop this doesn't the ROFR process also serve to keep people interested in DVC.

I just don't see a down side to Disney's ROFR process as long as WDW continues to thrive and the economy is sound. So again, while I agree that counting on making money is a poor strategy with respect to DVC, what are some factors that would cause Disney to discontinue ROFR and how likely are these factors to come into play in the near term, mid term, and long term picture?

 

[Dean]

I think "bash" may be a wrong term, BUT she did not state ALL the facts. I am a science teacher, and want the facts, not "skewed" toward how you want the facts to be interpreted. All I am saying is she does not take into account the rise in rates over the next 44 years or so, and only talks about dues going up.
She needs to state ALL the facts, not "skewed' toward NOT buying DVC which is what she is saying...

Just the facts, ma'am.......


DeerH

I think she covered the facts pretty well. What she didn't do is explain and expound on them. IMO, that's the type of info one needs to gather in doing their due diligence either buying or renting. But mousesavers is not the place to pursue that line of thinking either for buying or selling.