More updated Fastpass+ information

[Robo]

And another thing.


There are some posters here who claim that Disney doesn't care if we "power users" are miffed by this draconian change in FP laws.

Disney wants to bring in NEW fans.
Well, then.

WHO will BE the "new fans?"

When the newbies think of a possible vacation destination, doesn't Disney want them to consider coming back to Disney park first and foremost?

Won't these new fans want to have gained info (to have LEARNED the ROPES) about how to maximize their Disney parks vacation?

It is beyond the scope of reason to think that a retailer (ANY retailer) would
not be interested in building and keeping repeat customers.
The old adage about how much more difficult it is to get a NEW customer
than it is to keep and maintain an existing customer is still very true.

Disney park fans have grown, generation after generation.
Families in the 1950's and 1960's whose kids came, and those kids grew up and brought THEIR kids, etc.

The idea that "Disney fairness" is only fair if it's fair to NEW guests... to the exclusion of the established "family of the Disney faithful" is sophistry.

 

[Tekneek]

Disney takes their fans for granted. They've raised ticket prices, raised room rates, slashed benefits, slashed perks, shuttered attractions without replacements, and these Disney fans just keep coming back for more. They figure they've got all those folks anyway. All they need to worry about is keeping the newbies happy, because all the diehards will (apparently) put up with anything.

 

[doggydoc]

The 2 statements you made appear exactly opposite to me.

Are you saying these 2 statements you made are saying the same thing?

I didn't make the second statement I quoted it. The former was an argument in response.

 

[Robo]

disney takes their fans for granted. They've raised ticket prices, raised room rates, slashed benefits, slashed perks, shuttered attractions without replacements, and these disney fans just keep coming back for more. They figure they've got all those folks anyway.

all they need to worry about is keeping the newbies happy, because all the diehards will (apparently) put up with anything.

Why would they care MORE about the newbies?

 

[Tekneek]

...

 

[Tekneek]

Why would they care MORE about the newbies?

If you raise your rates over and over, and charge a 4 year old with an AP the same price as an adult, you're telling your most ardent fans that you don't like them. You're daring them to walk out on you. The fact that they keep coming back has demonstrated to Disney that they can do just about anything and they'll keep throwing their money in the pot. Once it was proven that the most devoted fans don't need any love, they came up with a plan to appease the newcomers and hope they eventually turn into diehards as well.

 

[CuteAsMinnie]

And another thing.


There are some posters here who claim that Disney doesn't care if we "power users" are miffed by this draconian change in FP laws.

Disney wants to bring in NEW fans.
Well, then.

WHO will BE the "new fans?"

When the newbies think of a possible vacation destination, doesn't Disney want them to consider coming back to Disney park first and foremost?

Won't these new fans want to have gained info (to have LEARNED the ROPES) about how to maximize their Disney parks vacation?

It is beyond the scope of reason to think that a retailer (ANY retailer) would
not be interested in building repeat customers.

Disney park fans have grown, generation after generation.
Families in the 1950's and 1960's whose kids came, and those kids grew up and brought THEIR kids, etc.

The idea that "Disney fairness" is only fair if it's fair to NEW guests... to the exclusion of the established "family of the Disney faithful" is sophistry.

That is their claim, isn't it..... to attract new repeat guests.

We'll see.

This will be our last trip with the kids being kids (DS17. DD20). We have obviously been very successful in them wanting to continue coming to WDW every few years -- for all the simple reasons. Now it is up to Disney if they will return as adults.

At this point they, btw, think its ridiculous to schedule a time slot for a ride 60 days out. I'm hoping we won't have to.

 

[dadddio]

I make arguments based on facts and limit supposition to the effects they may have. We know there will be a limit of 3 preplanned FP+'s in 1 park per day. Will there be other's? I hope so but until "they" say so we only know what "they" have already stated. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst.

I also prefer to concentrate on the facts. Fact one: the product is named FP+. That suggests that they took the current product and improved it somehow. Fact two: the stated purpose is to push people out if the lines. Reducing the number of FPs and putting a greater number of people in the SB lines doesn't do this. Fact three: the tests all allowed for same-day FPs in addition to the preselected ones.

 

[mom2rtk]

I agree. It wouldn't be a good marketing strategy for Disney to call it FastPass minus though.

If they put the person who came up with "Limited Time Magic" in charge of naming the new fastpass program, I wouldn't rule anything out.

 

[Robo]

If you raise your rates over and over, and charge a 4 year old with an AP the same price as an adult, you're telling your most ardent fans that you don't like them. You're daring them to walk out on you. The fact that they keep coming back has demonstrated to Disney that they can do just about anything and they'll keep throwing their money in the pot. Once it was proven that the most devoted fans don't need any love, they came up with

a plan to appease the newcomers and hope they eventually turn into diehards as well.

So, they want to abuse the OLD diehards in order to create NEW diehards...
to abuse in the future, perhaps?

What did they do in the past (without the abuse) to "create NEW diehards?"

 

[DougEMG]

If that was true, which I'm not sure it would be, then I say, "have at it". There can't be that many guests who would go to such extremes for a few extra rides.

Actually buying two annual passes to do this might not be such a bad idea for someone who goes a lot.

 

[Brian Noble]

Disney wants to bring in NEW fans.
Well, then.

WHO will BE the "new fans?"

When is the last time you spoke with someone on their first trip? I mean, actually sat down with them and talked to them about what they thought?

Almost invariably, these people are having the time of their lives. That's despite the fact that they have no f'ing clue about what they are doing. But, they are rip-roaring ready to come back for another vacation, right then and there.

Edited to add: And don't kid yourself that those people are only there because of the "old fans". Disney spends a ton on marketing, and a "Disney trip" is widely regarded as a right of passage amongst certain demographics.

 

[doggydoc]

I also prefer to concentrate on the facts. Fact one: the product is named FP+. That suggests that they took the current product and improved it somehow.

I'm with you on that one. Several others have made arguments as to justification of the nomenclature even in light of proposed worst case implementation so you can argue that point with them

Fact two: the stated purpose is to push people out if the lines. Reducing the number of FPs and putting a greater number of people in the SB lines doesn't do this.

We actually know that they are greatly INCREASING the number of FP's by adding almost all rides to the FP+ system, as well as parades and character interactions. The proposed justification is that it will somehow improve things for the majority of users by allowing to get at least 1 top-tier FP. The belief being that too many were unabe to with the old system. This is not my argument just what has been stated previously

Fact three: the tests all allowed for same-day FPs in addition to the preselected ones.

Yes but this was due to both regular fastpass and FP+ operating simultaneously. We know for a fact that this will not be allowed at rollout. We have seen how day of updates to FP+ can occur at a kiosk. While this makes me somewhat optimistic, and certainly is an interesting function either way, it is not proof that more than the 3 FP+'s will be allowed.

 

[Robo]

When is the last time you spoke with someone on their first trip? I mean, actually sat down with them and talked to them about what they thought?

Almost invariably, these people are having the time of their lives. That's despite the fact that they have no f'ing clue about what they are doing. But, they are rip-roaring ready to come back for another vacation, right then and there.

Sounds right to me.

They want repeat customers.
Customers who are comfortable knowing how to negotiate the parks and ride the rides.

There are many posts here claiming that Disney doesn't care about what their repeat customers think.

 

[Tekneek]

So, they want to abuse the diehards in order to create new diehards...
to abuse in the future, perhaps?

They want to make as much cash off of the weakness that the diehards have for Disney. It is just about business. They don't have any special sentiment for their fans. They like you to the extent required to get you to give up your money. I expect there are executives who laughed all the way to the bank when they started increasing prices at twice the rate of inflation and attendance didn't decline. They probably laughed privately when they raised the AP price for children to match adults and people still bought them. They created a fan club, with membership fees, to allow you to pay more to attend events, that are primarily geared around getting you to buy special merchandise. Money, money, money. That is what they think of us. They keep charging more and we keep paying. Why would they need to be concerned about giving us anything? This is a one-sided relationship.

What did they do in the past (without the abuse) to "create new diehards?"

They used to offer value. They used to offer discounts. I was once offered an on-property room for $40/night by Disney. CM training used to be more extensive. The Disney Way used to mean something more than it does today. Although it was always about running a profitable enterprise, you never felt like that was at the top of their priorities. It used to feel like the profit was a by-product of everything else being done right. Now I feel like all they want to do is separate us from as much of our cash as quickly as possible.

 

[dawgsgirl]

I keep thinking that Disney has become so popular that lines at the attractions have been getting longer and longer. All this enhanced customer experience stuff seems to be a lot about long wait times. So...why is Disney really slacking about building new attractions? This would solve a LOT of problems!!

 

[Robo]

They want to make as much cash off of the weakness that the diehards have for Disney. It is just about business.

I won't go down that path, as it has nothing to do with MyMagic+ / FP+.

Expecting to make a profit by raising rates is, well, Capitalism.
And, if "supply and demand" are in balance that can continue.

But, I'm talking about why they are investing a lot of their money in
a new system that so many are arguing will favor newbies but punish
repeat customers for being savvy "power users."

Newbies: good.
Wizened returnees: bad.

What makes an ever-increasing bankroll for Disney in that situation?

 

[Robo]

I keep thinking that Disney has become so popular that lines at the attractions have been getting longer and longer. All this enhanced customer experience stuff seems to be a lot about long wait times. So...why is Disney really slacking about building new attractions? This would solve a LOT of problems!!

Buzzackly!

A new E-Ticket attraction costs roughly 100 million dollars to create.

A billion dollars (proclaimed price-tag of MyMagic+) would net a cool
TEN brand spanking new biggie attractions.

 

[CuteAsMinnie]

I won't go down that path, as it has nothing to do with MyMagic+ / FP+.

Expecting to make a profit by raising rates is, well, Capitalism.
And, if "supply and demand" are in balance that can continue.

But, I'm talking about why they are investing a lot of their money in
a new system that so many are arguing will favor newbies but punish
repeat customers for being savvy "power users."

Newbies: good.
Wizened returnees: bad.

What makes an ever-increasing bankroll for Disney in that situation?

You are right.

 

[Tekneek]

What makes an ever-increasing bankroll for Disney in that situation?

The examples provided already answer the question. What about all the other things mentioned would make Disney think they have to care about the existing diehards? Diehards might grumble about it, like they do about all the other things, but what will they do? Will they stop coming? Or will they grin and bear it, get used to it, and keep booking the trips? Disney expects them to get over it and they probably will.

Do you think this will be the final thing that just makes all of that unbearable? They will draw a line in the sand over a FP change while so easily bearing all those other things? Seems unlikely to me.

Diehards keep coming. Newbies have a more pleasant experience. Disney wins.

They use MM+ to connect people with more purchase opportunities for "unique" offerings. The opportunities are limitless to match up their customers with more and more things to buy, especially things that are targeted specifically at them rather than generic. $$$! Profit! That's the goal anyway.