More updated Fastpass+ information

[Tekneek]

Not the PP you were referring to but.....

We park hop and we still know what parks we will be in on what days because of crowd calendars, EMH's (while they last) and special events. I usually know this at least 60 days in advance. It's the way we plan. We don't just wake up and decide where to go that day. But to each his own.....

No, I don't plan it the night before, but I also park hop depending on the weather as well, and that is a bit of a wild card. You aren't going to know about a downpour that makes one park preferable over another until it actually happens.

Also keep in mind that FP+ can only be used for one park per day, so knowing you'd be in two different parks that day doesn't allow you to reserve slots at both parks 60 days in advance.

 

[BridgetR3]

No, I don't plan it the night before, but I also park hop depending on the weather as well, and that is a bit of a wild card. You aren't going to know about a downpour that makes one park preferable over another until it actually happens.

Also keep in mind that FP+ can only be used for one park per day, so knowing you'd be in two different parks that day doesn't allow you to reserve slots at both parks 60 days in advance.

I'm not arguing the fact that I think FP+ will not work for me. I'm simply saying that I know the parks I will be in well in advance.

And just to be devil's advocate here - in Florida, sometimes you don't know what the weather will be like even the night before. Some of the days that were supposed to be good weather for us last summer were the worst.

We do agree though that FP+ isn't a really good idea for seasoned visitors.

 

[mom2rtk]

I noticed that elementary school analogies are popular around here, so here is one:

At a child's birthday party, both cake and ice cream are often served. The mere fact that a child doesn't like ice cream doesn't mean that he can have two pieces of cake because that would mean that some other kid can't have cake.

It is good for the group as a whole that one kid isn't allowed to hog the cake.

Except that up until now the child has been to birthday parties many times. And both cake and ice cream have been freely available without so much as a second thought.

In your analogy, everyone would have been served calorie-free, fat-free, non-artery clogging cake (because theme park rides have none of those concerns). Everyone there got a piece. So seconds were offered. Apparently there were still other kiddies who stayed up far too late and could not bother to be awake and make it to the party on time. Then when they arrived at the party and found the cake gone, they stomped their collective feet and threw a fit that nobody bothered to save any for them.

 

[Brian Noble]

Still, the mere fact that others use such a system doesn't mean that Disney will.

No, that's true. And, I don't expect that they will for at least the near term, mostly because Nick Franklin is on record saying they won't.

But, it sure seems like the writing is on the wall long term---especially if the cost savings/revenue increases already built into NextGen's business model don't fully pan out.

Edited to add: I don't even necessarily believe that they will tie it to resort tier or onsite status, necessarily. But, I expect that somehow, in the next five years, P&R will figure out a way to monetize FP+ more directly.

 

[catra121]

No, I don't plan it the night before, but I also park hop depending on the weather as well, and that is a bit of a wild card. You aren't going to know about a downpour that makes one park preferable over another until it actually happens.

Also keep in mind that FP+ can only be used for one park per day, so knowing you'd be in two different parks that day doesn't allow you to reserve slots at both parks 60 days in advance.

Yes...it appears that only ONE park will be allowed for FPs if you are hopping. BUT...this is a case where I personally see a big advantage.

If you know you will be in MK in the morning until lunch (arriving at RD or for EMH) then you probably won't need any FPs. You will be able to ride your favorites with shorter lines before it gets too crowded. You can then hop over to HS and you will also be able to ride your favorites over there with little to no wait because you reserved your FPs for them already ahead of time...something you can't really do now.

I think it's all going to be in how you use the system and we can't really know how to best do that until we know all the details. But as a park hopper I'm actually looking forward to being able to reserve FP times for my second park of the day and not missing out on FPs for TSM or Soarin' or whatever just because I wasn't there in the morning to get FPs before they ran out.

I actually think this will make planning my park days easier.

 

[Rosanne]

Ha! We found ourselves thinking the same way, "We've had to wait *four* minutes. Huff!"

I think Universal handles the express/stand by mix much better than Disney does. At a lot of the Universal rides, they just use a dedicated row or car for express users. They also merge the lines with a better ratio, in my opinion.

I think the only time one could legitimately argue that the express pass users made it impossible to enjoy the park is over the most super busy weeks of the year - when any theme park is going to be difficult. And even then, arriving early and having a plan would alleviate a lot of that.

All I can say is, there must have been a unique plan in place on the day we went. We could see the FOTL people riding over and over and never having to wait for the standby people. I do mean never. We'd think a standby person might get on and a FOTL group would come running (yes, running) through their line just in time to catch the car again and they would be put on the next car. It was not unusual for 10 minutes to pass without a single standby person allowed in a car. This was repeated at the three rides we hit after the initial first ride we rode at park opening.

If this is not the norm that is good because it was deeply unpleasant. Some of us can't come at times that are not busy. I'm a teacher and am absolutely forbidden to take vacation time other than what is on our calendar. I am allowed personal days but not allowed to string them together in any way. I did arrive at park opening.

I think the hardest thing was not that some were allowed FOTL access. It was the unlimited aspect where the ratio got out of control.

 

[MikeandReneePlus5]

Because "good intentions" won't create a higher number of maximum riders per hour on a popular attraction.



The problem many of us have is that they may decide (like a lot of companies) that their first "drawing board sessions" are
enough and we all will have to live with the outcome, at least for a very long time.

I continue to think this all may be as simple as they are taking a chunk of existing FP capacity and making it appointment based. Which would be a cool improvement, for some. So in the end it will benefit the most knowledgable guests most, exactly as it does now, and exactly as everything does in just about any walk of life.

And also adding tons of other bells and whistles based on how they use the data mined from the RFID (i.e. targeted communications etc).

 

[Tekneek]

And just to be devil's advocate here - in Florida, sometimes you don't know what the weather will be like even the night before. Some of the days that were supposed to be good weather for us last summer were the worst.

Oh, I know this. This is the beauty of park hopping. We've enjoyed great evenings at MK when a long afternoon downpour sent most people back to their rooms. We've left Epcot in a thunderstorm and then had a small E-Ride Night type crowd at MK for the next 4 or 5 hours. All because we were able to adjust to the change in conditions. Things like that keep me paying for park hoppers, but time will tell if FP+ sucks some of that value away.

 

[DorianDonP]

Yes...it appears that only ONE park will be allowed for FPs if you are hopping. BUT...this is a case where I personally see a big advantage.

If you know you will be in MK in the morning until lunch (arriving at RD or for EMH) then you probably won't need any FPs. You will be able to ride your favorites with shorter lines before it gets too crowded. You can then hop over to HS and you will also be able to ride your favorites over there with little to no wait because you reserved your FPs for them already ahead of time...something you can't really do now.

I think it's all going to be in how you use the system and we can't really know how to best do that until we know all the details. But as a park hopper I'm actually looking forward to being able to reserve FP times for my second park of the day and not missing out on FPs for TSM or Soarin' or whatever just because I wasn't there in the morning to get FPs before they ran out.

I've been trying to find "pros" for FP+ for me specifically, and I hadn't thought about that. Great point.

 

[Rosanne]

No, that's true. And, I don't expect that they will for at least the near term, mostly because Nick Franklin is on record saying they won't.

But, it sure seems like the writing is on the wall long term---especially if the cost savings/revenue increases already built into NextGen's business model don't fully pan out.

I hope they don't implement it but if they do, I hope they at least wait until long after the mine train is completed so we can squeeze in a trip first.

 

[mom2rtk]

I continue to think this all may be as simple as they are taking a chunk of existing FP capacity and making it appointment based. Which would be a cool improvement, for some. So in the end it will benefit the most knowledgable guests most, exactly as it does now, and exactly as everything does in just about any walk of life.

And also adding tons of other bells and whistles based on how they use the data mined from the RFID (i.e. targeted communications etc).

I do hope you are right. Which would certainly fit with the fact that they have been experimenting with the system all year to see how many "extra" they can milk out of that system.

Except for I have said all along, even back when they experimented with centrally located kiosks in Animal Kingdom. The easier you make the acquisition of a FP, the more it will be used. I'm one who doesn't mind putting in the effort for a payoff. Once people have them at the tips of their fingers with little effort, that alone will change the system, regarless of anything else.

 

[DorianDonP]

All I can say is, there must have been a unique plan in place on the day we went. We could see the FOTL people riding over and over and never having to wait for the standby people. I do mean never. We'd think a standby person might get on and a FOTL group would come running (yes, running) through their line just in time to catch the car again and they would be put on the next car. It was not unusual for 10 minutes to pass without a single standby person allowed in a car. This was repeated at the three rides we hit after the initial first ride we rode at park opening.

If this is not the norm that is good because it was deeply unpleasant. Some of us can't come at times that are not busy. I'm a teacher and am absolutely forbidden to take vacation time other than what is on our calendar. I am allowed personal days but not allowed to string them together in any way. I did arrive at park opening.

I think the hardest thing was not that some were allowed FOTL access. It was the unlimited aspect where the ratio got out of control.

Yeesh. Sounds awful. I would have vowed to never return again if I saw that. Can honestly say I've never witnessed anything close to that on my many visits.

As was said earlier, I notice that a lot of the attractions have their own carts just for express users. And for rides like Hulk, the express people join the standby line.

 

[Tekneek]

I continue to think this all may be as simple as they are taking a chunk of existing FP capacity and making it appointment based.

While the app/site may allow booking of FP during that day, keep in mind that the paperless tickets are going to kill the current FastPass service. It's in the Terms of Service for My Disney Experience that converting to paperless tickets means you cannot participate in the standard FastPass service. Once everyone is on paperless tickets, those distribution stations will be removed.

 

[UNCFanatik]

Except that up until now the child has been to birthday parties many times. And both cake and ice cream have been freely available without so much as a second thought.

In your analogy, everyone would have been served calorie-free, fat-free, non-artery clogging cake (because theme park rides have none of those concerns). Everyone there got a piece. So seconds were offered. Apparently there were still other kiddies who stayed up far too late and could not bother to be awake and make it to the party on time. Then when they arrived at the party and found the cake gone, they stomped their collective feet and threw a fit that nobody bothered to save any for them.

Ah, but you forgot one variable.

The cake was in one room but the ice cream was in another. But only a certain number of party goers had the information that both ice cream and cake were available because the party invitation said that only cake would be had at the party. Everyone got to enjoy the cake but ice cream was only available to a select few. Also, the party throwers didnt tell everyone there was ice cream available because they didnt want everyone to be expecting cake and ice cream

 

[Tekneek]

Ah, but you forgot one variable.

The cake was in one room but the ice cream was in another. But only a certain number of party goers had the information that both ice cream and cake were available because the party invitation said that only cake would be had at the party. Everyone got to enjoy the cake but ice cream was only available to a select few. Also, the party throwers didnt tell everyone there was ice cream available because they didnt want everyone to be expecting cake and ice cream

I'm trying to follow this, but are you saying that not everybody knew about FastPass (ice cream)? It is on the maps and always has been. If I'm following correctly, then maybe ice cream was mentioned on the second page of the invite but not everyone bothered to read it all the way through.

 

[mom2rtk]

Ah, but you forgot one variable.

The cake was in one room but the ice cream was in another. But only a certain number of party goers had the information that both ice cream and cake were available because the party invitation said that only cake would be had at the party. Everyone got to enjoy the cake but ice cream was only available to a select few. Also, the party throwers didnt tell everyone there was ice cream available because they didnt want everyone to be expecting cake and ice cream

You seriously need to get over the late fastpass thing. That conversation is so 2012. Heck, maybe even 2011.

I'm pretty sure anyone with a ticket can get into a Disney park. And the park schedules are available to all. Nobody is hiding the opening time or holding anyone back at the turnstiles (except EMH, and that's a different story).

 

[MikeandReneePlus5]

While the app/site may allow booking of FP during that day, keep in mind that the paperless tickets are going to kill the current FastPass service. It's in the Terms of Service for My Disney Experience that converting to paperless tickets means you cannot participate in the standard FastPass service. Once everyone is on paperless tickets, those distribution stations will be removed.

yes, roger that.

And hopefully (key word) replaced with their equivalent.

Also - what about wasted FPs? I wonder how many get pulled and never used now?

I could see a new system being designed to recognize unused capacity and feed it back into the system in real time.

So you could get to the park at 2 pm and still have FPs for TSMM is there were a lot of no shows before you.

It seems like a more intelligent system, if I look at it that way. Which I will do, until my hopes are crushed by half-baked ideas rolled out in ham-handed fashion like many are fretting about!

 

[Rosanne]

Yeesh. Sounds awful. I would have vowed to never return again if I saw that. Can honestly say I've never witnessed anything close to that on my many visits.

As was said earlier, I notice that a lot of the attractions have their own carts just for express users. And for rides like Hulk, the express people join the standby line.

Perhaps our problem was in part that we were not riding the "big" rides due to my youngest daughter not being tall enough. She was tall enough for all WDW rides except RnRC and one or two others but the Universal thrill rides have a taller requirement (perfectly reasonable). Perhaps the lesser rides have a less well thought out system for FOTL vs. standby in busier times.

 

[jade1]

Except that up until now the child has been to birthday parties many times. And both cake and ice cream have been freely available without so much as a second thought.

In your analogy, everyone would have been served calorie-free, fat-free, non-artery clogging cake (because theme park rides have none of those concerns). Everyone there got a piece. So seconds were offered. Apparently there were still other kiddies who stayed up far too late and could not bother to be awake and make it to the party on time. Then when they arrived at the party and found the cake gone, they stomped their collective feet and threw a fit that nobody bothered to save any for them.

So a rational parent said "well lets simply keep a piece of cake for each kid that's coming to the party", duh why didn't we think of this before?

And you guessed it-the other collective feet began to stomp.

 

[Tekneek]

I could see a new system being designed to recognize unused capacity and feed it back into the system in real time.

So you could get to the park at 2 pm and still have FPs for TSMM is there were a lot of no shows before you.

That would be smart. Unfortunately, Disney wep applications/services don't have a great reputation. I hope they're going to blow this out of the park. However, the problems people continue to have with the online ADRs gives me little confidence that Disney will deliver on the full potential.