Monorails to no longer operate during Evening Extra Magic Hours

[mom2rtk]

I'm sure someone has said this before, so forgive me if I'm repeating this, but I think it comes down to this for the fate of EMH: does Disney turn a profit from them, or atleast break even? If not, then the fate of EMH is doomed.

There's no reliable way to know this. The only way Disney "profits" from it is in keeping people staying on-site. So the only way to quantify would be with those opinion polls people have been taking.

 

[KSDisneyDad]

People miss E-nights for one reason and one reason only. The crowds were much, much smaller than they are with Extra Magic hours. I can remember being in the park and feeling like we were the only ones there. That was really cool. Evening Extra Magic hours are just not worth it to us. Having to fight the same big crowds and then being totally worn out the next day. Unfortunately, however even if Disney decided to bring E-nights back, I don't think they’d be quite the same as they use to be, especially with the additions of all of the rooms - The Vacation Club Villas, Animal Kingdom Lodge, Old Key West, Saratoga Springs, The All Stars, The Pop and the Art of Animation resorts, the crowds would be much bigger anyway.

We attended E-Nights and stayed at the All-stars. When we were there for E-nights, all the existing resorts existed you mentioned existed except for Kidani Village, BLT and the future Art of Animation resorts. And as you mentioned the crowds were much much smaller, so there is a lot of room for added capacity.

That was my point about E-nights - few people used them. Good for the crowd level, not good from a business perspective.

But EMH are "at no additional cost" to resort guests. And since the days of E-nights, there have been lots more room discounts so on average, guests are probably paying the same or less for rooms than they were pre-2006.

Because E-Nights cost extra for guests, so technically, wouldn't Disney have lost "less" money operating E-nights than EMH? Granted, I think it was only $12 per person when we went. But for a family of 5, that was still an extra $60 for us. I think charging even a small fee would keep the crowds at evening EMH down compared to now. I am not naive enough to believe it will ever be the way it was before, but I also believe it will be a lot less crowded than the current evening EMH's.

 

[umichigan10]

There's no reliable way to know this. The only way Disney "profits" from it is in keeping people staying on-site. So the only way to quantify would be with those opinion polls people have been taking.

but people also buy merchandise and food at EMH. What I'm curious about, is whether it costs significantly more to operate, for example MK, until midnight when they're not making a lot of $$$ of the people that are staying in the park. So what I figure is, it most likely costs a lot more to keep a park open three hours plus later than normal considering the sales listed above are limited, and if that is the case Disney may want to cut it to save $, although I agree with you that a huge factor is whether or not it keeps people on-site which is questionable.

 

[hookedonears]

And unfortunately it's for the same reason it will never be back.

Never say never.

 

[KSDisneyDad]

For most people is the most critical hours of the service of the monorail. When I'm at EPCOT all day long and watching IllumiNations and now everything is over and I want to get back to my resort and quickly....oh wait...the monorial is not running anymore...gotta bus it back....well, that's wrong!!

I WANT and PAY FOR efficiency of being on a monorail resort. If I want to be a bus route resort, I would switch. I don't blame juliebug1997 for wanting to switch...you will save alot of money.

When I'm there in November every single night will be effected for me because MK closes at either 7pm or 8pm. EP at 9pm. Doesn't look like I have much of choice do I?

I think it's just the wrong time of the night to take away the easiest way for monorail resort clients to get back to their hotel.

I truly understand this line of reasoning. I agree that it is very disappointing and frustrating.

However, doesn't this occur mostly during the off-season? And off-season room rates are a lot less than peak season. Said another way, if you travel in peak season, you can generally have monorail resort service to your resort after Illuminations. If you decide to save money and travel during the off-season, Disney may substitute transportation options after Illuminations. This is no different than cutting back on operating hours, # of shows and other entertainment options, cutting back on seasonal restaurant operations, etc. There are pros and cons to travelling during the off-season and this will have to be added as a huge "con" (no pun intended - conspiracy theorists interpret how you wish). I'm not trying to apologize for it, but I am trying to rationalize it for our family as our DVC owners with BLT as our home resort.

On our last stay at BLT last month, we took the monorail to Epcot one day. We found it actually quite slow compared to driving. When we returned to Epcot later in the week, we drove to save time. For us, monorail transportation is uniquely Disney, but it is not necessarily efficient by any means.

 

[mom2rtk]

but people also buy merchandise and food at EMH. What I'm curious about, is whether it costs significantly more to operate, for example MK, until midnight when they're not making a lot of $$$ of the people that are staying in the park. So what I figure is, it most likely costs a lot more to keep a park open three hours plus later than normal considering the sales listed above are limited, and if that is the case Disney may want to cut it to save $, although I agree with you that a huge factor is whether or not it keeps people on-site which is questionable.

Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but we hardly ever spent money after hours. Aren't most of the food places closed up anyway? I think if they used that as a barometer, it's going to come up short. Just my guess though.

Never say never.

Well, I suppose that's right. Let's just say I don't expect it to ever be back in its former state...... any more than I expect to see the Pirate & Princess party back.

 

[KSDisneyDad]

There's no reliable way to know this. The only way Disney "profits" from it is in keeping people staying on-site. So the only way to quantify would be with those opinion polls people have been taking.

I agree with this. Disney will have to continually evaluate which on-site perks work and which ones don't. Each family will place a different value on the perks. For some families, they love DME. For us, we prefer the free parking perk. Some families love EMH, we find them good to avoid.

 

[mom2rtk]

I truly understand this line of reasoning. I agree that it is very disappointing and frustrating.

However, doesn't this occur mostly during the off-season? And off-season room rates are a lot less than peak season.

Except that ALL resort rooms are less in the off season. So the mods and values are lower too. If the monorail service isn't available many nights (potentially because of the parties) then you can get an even better value at one of the other resort categories.

 

[KSDisneyDad]

Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but we hardley ever spent money after hours. Aren't most of the food places closed up anyway? I think if they used that as a barometer, it's going to come up short. Just my guess though.

We don't spend money late either. We did go into the shops on Main Street on our last trip during evening EMH and it was empty. My sons did some vinylmation trading, but that was it.

 

[Colleen27]

But EMH are "at no additional cost" to resort guests. And since the days of E-nights, there have been lots more room discounts so on average, guests are probably paying the same or less for rooms than they were pre-2006.

I don't believe that's true. In talking about this on another forum I looked up historic rates - the rack rate for the Poly now is $200+ more (a 50% increase) than in 2005. Even with the recession discounts, which are in the process of scaling WAY back if the round of 10% off PINs is any indication, guests are still paying considerably more for their rooms than they were even a few years ago.

And in 2005, Disney had less competition - with the Waldorf, Hilton, Bonnet Creek, eventually the Four Seasons, etc. all opening on Disney property they're going to have to hold on to some perks to keep people paying the Disney premium. Magical Express and park buses alone probably aren't worth $200 more a night (the price difference between the Waldorf and the Poly) to many people.

 

[Colleen27]

Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but we hardley ever spent money after hours. Aren't most of the food places closed up anyway? I think if they used that as a barometer, it's going to come up short. Just my guess though.

We would have spent money during EMH but Disney doesn't make it easy - too much was closed at 1 (with EMH not ending until 3). There was nowhere left to get a late night snack except Main Street Bakery which was sold out of almost everything.

I think the question is how many people stay on site because of EMH. In my debate about where to stay in Nov that's proving to be the single biggest factor keeping me from clicking the "book now" button for Bonnet Creek - with as short as the park hours are in the off season I don't know if I want to give up the EMH. But given all the "avoid EMH" advice that comes from all the planning sites I wonder if I'm in a small minority with that.

 

[Eponine1]

I truly understand this line of reasoning. I agree that it is very disappointing and frustrating.

However, doesn't this occur mostly during the off-season? And off-season room rates are a lot less than peak season. Said another way, if you travel in peak season, you can generally have monorail resort service to your resort after Illuminations. If you decide to save money and travel during the off-season, Disney may substitute transportation options after Illuminations. This is no different than cutting back on operating hours, # of shows and other entertainment options, cutting back on seasonal restaurant operations, etc. There are pros and cons to travelling during the off-season and this will have to be added as a huge "con" (no pun intended - conspiracy theorists interpret how you wish). I'm not trying to apologize for it, but I am trying to rationalize it for our family as our DVC owners with BLT as our home resort.

I'm not traveling on value season...my rates are based on the fall season and are not that much less than peak season. $30.00 per night. But that's not the point. I'm still paying a very large sum for the service of a monorail hotel.

The monorail service is now being dictated by the hours of each park. So it doesn't matter off or on season, MK and EP usually run different hours. Plus it's already effecting people down there now during high season.

Also, I don't travel based on the rates of the hotel. This is the only good time for us to travel due to work and just happens to fall in the same time when the crowds are low.

I just think that Disney REALLY didn't think this through and say "well, they'll adjust". It's just another thing taken away and paying more for.

I would cancel but I have already purchased non-refundable airline tickets and I don't want to pay a penalty to change them.

 

[KSDisneyDad]

Except that ALL resort rooms are less in the off season. So the mods and values are lower too. If the monorail service isn't available many nights (potentially because of the parties) then you can get an even better value at one of the other resort categories.

True. But this seems to affect those staying at the monorail resorts the most so the decision process has to be made by someone staying at a monorail resort. If the loss of monorail service is a big enough issue, then one will have to determine if it's better to travel during peak season, stay at another Deluxe or at a Mod or Value. If enough people do this, Disney may reconsider the value of monorail service.

 

[Eponine1]

And.....I forgot to add to my post that I don't even do the EMH. I stay away from the parks on those nights.

I'm talking about regular park hours in general during the time I'll be there (or for those others that go during the fall).

 

[hookedonears]

We attended E-Nights and stayed at the All-stars. When we were there for E-nights, all the existing resorts existed you mentioned existed except for Kidani Village, BLT and the future Art of Animation resorts. And as you mentioned the crowds were much much smaller, so there is a lot of room for added capacity.



But EMH are "at no additional cost" to resort guests. And since the days of E-nights, there have been lots more room discounts so on average, guests are probably paying the same or less for rooms than they were pre-2006.

Because E-Nights cost extra for guests, so technically, wouldn't Disney have lost "less" money operating E-nights than EMH? Granted, I think it was only $12 per person when we went. But for a family of 5, that was still an extra $60 for us. I think charging even a small fee would keep the crowds at evening EMH down compared to now. I am not naive enough to believe it will ever be the way it was before, but I also believe it will be a lot less crowded than the current evening EMH's.

What year was the last year for E-Rides nights? I thought it was 2002. I guess I didn't realize that all of those other resorts were completed by then. Disney should offer an Extra Magic Option when people book their package. Morning, Evening or Both. Disney should have a price tag for each, and the rist bands should come in the mail with the other documents.

 

[KSDisneyDad]

I don't believe that's true. In talking about this on another forum I looked up historic rates - the rack rate for the Poly now is $200+ more (a 50% increase) than in 2005. Even with the recession discounts, which are in the process of scaling WAY back if the round of 10% off PINs is any indication, guests are still paying considerably more for their rooms than they were even a few years ago.

And in 2005, Disney had less competition - with the Waldorf, Hilton, Bonnet Creek, eventually the Four Seasons, etc. all opening on Disney property they're going to have to hold on to some perks to keep people paying the Disney premium. Magical Express and park buses alone probably aren't worth $200 more a night (the price difference between the Waldorf and the Poly) to many people.

But how many guests stay at the Poly at $600 per night compared to the thousands of Value and MOderate rooms? We stayed at the Poly in 2007 for I believe $209 or $219 per night using a discount code. Until we purchased DVC, we found that the Value/Moderate rooms were less now than they were before the recession.

I think the prices (i.e. discounts) for the Deluxe are set based on location and demand.

 

[KSDisneyDad]

I'm not traveling on value season...my rates are based on the fall season and are not that much less than peak season. $30.00 per night. But that's not the point. I'm still paying a very large sum for the service of a monorail hotel.

The monorail service is now being dictated by the hours of each park. So it doesn't matter off or on season, MK and EP usually run different hours. Plus it's already effecting people down there now during high season.

Also, I don't travel based on the rates of the hotel. This is the only good time for us to travel due to work and just happens to fall in the same time when the crowds are low.

I just think that Disney REALLY didn't think this through and say "well, they'll adjust". It's just another thing taken away and paying more for.

I would cancel but I have already purchased non-refundable airline tickets and I don't want to pay a penalty to change them.

As I said, if enough guests cancel or move to other resorts, Disney will listen. Otherwise, this may become status quo for a while and consumers will have to decide if it's worth it or not to stay at the monorail resorts. Personally, I don't see it changing our habits, but others will disagree.

 

[mcd2745]

What year was the last year for E-Rides nights? I thought it was 2002. I guess I didn't realize that all of those other resorts were completed by then. Disney should offer an Extra Magic Option when people book their package. Morning, Evening or Both. Disney should have a price tag for each, and the rist bands should come in the mail with the other documents.

According to AllEars, E-Ride nights ran from 1997 to August of 2004.

Also, according to several sources, it is believed that the limit on the number of tickets sold for them was 5,000 per night but very few nights, if any, sold out.

They generally took place on Tuesday and Friday nights. And, generally, only 9 or 10 attractions were open (including, most importantly, the 3 mountains, HM, and POTC).

I wish they would bring this back (very close to its original form), but I know if they did it would probably at least $25 per person and the limit would be at least twice as high as the origianl 5000 tickets.

 

[mousireid]

WE are lucky that we bring our car and DO use EMH, but only AMs due to the kids early rising (and lower crowds in comparison to two hours later, we leave after lunch for a break to return in the evening OR hop) and impossibility of staying awake for evening EMH!

I enjoy staying at the monorail resorts on the very rare splurge but we are passholders and go often. It will affect us if everyone has the same ideas - avoiding evening EMHs because of the monorail, but as long as there are buses running and they prefer to stay on those deluxes, it may NOT bother them as much. In our case, even if we stayed deluxe monorail we wouldn't ever utilize evening EMHs. Some people will be going for the first time and will continue to go, being none the wiser.

I am sorry to see so many little things slipping at a time where we really had to think about passes, tickets and vacations in this economy and how to spend that hard earned cash.

 

[kaligal]

What year was the last year for E-Rides nights? I thought it was 2002. I guess I didn't realize that all of those other resorts were completed by then. Disney should offer an Extra Magic Option when people book their package. Morning, Evening or Both. Disney should have a price tag for each, and the rist bands should come in the mail with the other documents.

No, they ran until 2004 or 2005.

It was around that same time that they did the surprise evening EMH. I remember it because I was there and the changing of all the EEs and additions of late stays screwed up my plan and PSs and all that. Shortly thereafter, they announced the EMH thing.

It may have been around that same time that they jacked up ticket costs a lot, took away the "no expiration" perk and told us it was because so many of us WANTED tickets to be more expensive and for them to charge for "no expiration". "Magic Your Way." Haven't forgotten that.

I liked having EE (I forget the technical name before it became EMH) and occasional E-ride nights, but I don't see a return to that.