Monorail Expansion??

[doubletrouble_vb]

Why doesn't DISNEY just use BioDiesel (or even just straight vegetable oil) in their diesel busses? The man that invented the diesel engine intended for it to be ran by peanut oil. It was the oil companies that put a stop to that after he died.

That's what I was wondering. There are more than enough deep fat fryers going in Orlando to run the Disney busses. There are biodiesel plants in Georgia that would probably love to supply a behemoth like Disney.

 

[TSR6]

The leftover cooking oils and such is actually already recycled at WDW.

Lipstick is one of the products made from it, so i read.

 

[Lord Fantasius]

The problem is recycling anything takes at least twice if not three times as much energy as producing the same article from raw material, and subsequently increases costs for the end user. The only reason recycled anything is as cheap as it is is because of tax breaks/incentives by the federal government; otherwise, right now (current short-term mindset) there really is no benefit cost-wise to recycle anything for reuse.

Ever price soybean or peanut oil recently...it costs more and produces less energy than a comparable amount of refined or diesel gasoline (admittedly, yes, the oil co's are "in" on it). Umm...not to say we shouldn't, but Disney is a business looking almost exclusively at the bottom line these days.

-R

 

[JodyTG]

But, as I said before, the BioDiesel plant in my hometown is run from the methane gas given off at the city dump. That's where the plant is, so no fossil fuels are running the plant...just good, old-fashioned trash.

 

[YoHo]

I'm all for biodiesel, but it's not a be all end all savior. It increases Nitros oxide emissions by something like 6% while dropping CO2 by something like 70%. Is it a worthwhile tradeoff? Maybe maybe not, but I know Disney could never use a bus like that in California.


Now, a hybrid bus powered by biodiesel......

 

[Lord Fantasius]

But, as I said before, the BioDiesel plant in my hometown is run from the methane gas given off at the city dump. That's where the plant is, so no fossil fuels are running the plant...just good, old-fashioned trash.

True...but does WDW have their own landfill? I could see where Orlando would benefit from this but it would only be cost-saving for Disney if they had their own dumpsite. Don't jump on me, I just don't think even Disney has enough land and space to support a landfill...could you imagine the guests' complaints when the wind shifts? Plus, most of the remaining land at WDW is marsh/swamp so is unusable for a landfill; ergo, unless they have more property elsewhere they are using for that purpose, it really doesn't help Disney, Inc., much.

Now solar energy panels on the monorail might be a thought...

-R

P.S., Actually I think an incinerator would be better use for garbage as it reduces wasted landfill space and produces energy, but environmentalists seem to be up in arms about it!

 

[YoHo]

I believe they do have their own landfill.

 

[Favorite Auntie]

While I was on the Disney magic in 11/04, there was a Disney Imagineer that was there and he gave lectures. During one lecture he said that Disney has done all the research and they will definitly be expanding the momorail system...he didn't way when though.

 

[paulh]

the only problem with bio-diesel is that you would have to use the whole of the usa crop production to try to sustain it what would you buy from the supermarket when you got there in the bio-diesel car as everthing has gone in the tank we nead a true alturnitive fuel which goverments must be working on in secret as not to damage the worlds economy as oil stocks prop most of it up
Paulh

 

[Lord Fantasius]

I believe they do have their own landfill.

YoHo, I've been looking over the aerial photographs of WDW from the 90's (shows the land for AKL just being leveled) and can't see where the landfill is unless it's the mound of dirt at the very southern portion of the property just off of the one highway (sorry, I'm bad with highways down there) and west of Celebration. Otherwise, no other sculpted mounds that would signify a landfill on the property. Could it be off-property?

-R

 

[drakethib]

And diesel is cheaper to refine than gasoline.

Not anymore. Diesel is no longer the "junk" fuel.

New EPA restrictions (concerning sulfur content) for diesel has caused the price since Jan 05 (I believe that is the date) to skyrocket.

I wonder if the Disney buses (park transports) are allowed to burn non taxable diesel since they only travel (as far as I know) on private roads.

 

[manning]

Manning, it almost sounds like you might work for BP!!!! You know an awful lot about Thunderhorse....

Retired from the Torch and Oval in '95

 

[seashoreCM]

More reasons why expanding the monorail system is so expensive:

1. It has to be built in such a way that if a breakdown occurs in any one spot, travel between certain points is not completely shut down. Ever notice that at Orlando Airport there are two independent trams to each gate cluster so that if one breaks down, the other still runs?

2. It has to be able to carry the guest load without full time paralleling bus service. The existing monorails have a hard enough time carrying just the Magic Kingdom day guests to the parking area at park closing.

Disney hints:
http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/disney.htm

 

[SeeDisney]

I truly hope it's true.

I love the monorails at WDW.

 

[Buzz2001]

Buses will be required to burn the new ultra low sulfur diesel by 2007.

07/01/2006 - must be made available by distributors
01/01/2007 - trucks and buses must be using

No regulation for installation of particulate trap filters but EPA's new standards will make it difficult to operate without them.

It will cost about $1,000,000 to retrofit 100 buses and about $100,000 for yearly maintanence.

 

[YoHo]

I thought EPA Tier II compliance was for the most part already required?

I know it is for any new purchases.

Disney should switch to Biodiesel or a blend. Especially with the jump in Diesel prices. It would make it easier for their old busses to comply.

 

[Lord Fantasius]

More reasons why expanding the monorail system is so expensive:

1. It has to be built in such a way that if a breakdown occurs in any one spot, travel between certain points is not completely shut down. Ever notice that at Orlando Airport there are two independent trams to each gate cluster so that if one breaks down, the other still runs?

2. It has to be able to carry the guest load without full time paralleling bus service. The existing monorails have a hard enough time carrying just the Magic Kingdom day guests to the parking area at park closing.[/url]

1) Obviously they didn't consider this too major of a problem since they built the EPCOT loop as a single loop; notably, it's fairly easy to divide a continuous loop into two segments if necessary. When we were there the year after it was installed, one of the trains heading to EPCOT had some major problems and while they were working on it and before they could get it pulled to the yard, they merely used the "return" loop between the TTC and EPCOT as an out-and-back line. Yes, you missed the whole intro going around SE, but hey, it still beat the buses hands-down. Unfortunately, the "two independent trams," as exampled by Orlando airport are only efficient for short runs connecting two buildings since they are limited to running only a single tram on each track. Once you start adding gates or distance, a double-loop (one heading in each direction) is more efficient.

2) Except for the MK, all the other parks have parking lots adjacent to the parks themselves, so the crush at the end of the day would be mainly for WDW resort guests...and you can always augment with bus service at peak times...I don't think anybody's arguing for the elimination of all bus service.

3) Any type of building project on WDW property is going to be expensive, but what's the point? Fortunately, you can't compare adding a monorail at WDW to the Las Vegas monorail or the proposed Seattle monorail since 60% to 80% of the cost of these two monorails were/are toward land/real estate, right-of-way, & titling costs, and not the actual monorail structure. Since Disney already owns the property and has monorails running on other places on grounds, they're far ahead of the cost curve. If you're going to do it, do it right, and have it add to the experience...not detract as an afterthought.

No matter how efficient and "cost-saving" buses become, is it more magical to ride in traffic or above it?

-R

 

[Onemotime]

Are the taxes on Diesel different than those on Gasoline?

Yes. At least 30 cents. Not sure how it is from state-to-state, but truckers normally get hammered for the priviledge to drive in each state. Ever notice all the stickers they display on their doors ? Basically they pay a fee for each state they enter. Not to mention F.E.T. on the truck purchase plus every tire they buy.

 

[Onemotime]

Buses will be required to burn the new ultra low sulfur diesel by 2007.

07/01/2006 - must be made available by distributors
01/01/2007 - trucks and buses must be using

No regulation for installation of particulate trap filters but EPA's new standards will make it difficult to operate without them.

It will cost about $1,000,000 to retrofit 100 buses and about $100,000 for yearly maintanence.

The buses that Disney operate meet all the EPA standards they were expected to meet at the time they were built. A bus built in 1980 is not expected to meet the emission standards of a 2006 bus. Impossible to do regardless of how many traps or burners are installed.

The only affect ULS diesel will have on the older buses is that the fuel supply will need additional lubricity additives. Sulfur is the lubricating property for injection pump and injectors. If you remove the sulfur you have to replace it with something else. It's no big deal anymore. Very easily done.

 

[manning]

The buses that Disney operate meet all the EPA standards they were expected to meet at the time they were built. A bus built in 1980 is not expected to meet the emission standards of a 2006 bus. Impossible to do regardless of how many traps or burners are installed.

The only affect ULS diesel will have on the older buses is that the fuel supply will need additional lubricity additives. Sulfur is the lubricating property for injection pump and injectors. If you remove the sulfur you have to replace it with something else. It's no big deal anymore. Very easily done.

There's one bus out there I wonder which standard it comes under. I think it's (bus) called puff the magic smoker.