Mom's with large strollers vs bus aisles

[Chuck S]

This thread is not DVC specific. I am moving it to the Transportation board.

 

[my4kids]

There have been lots of threads about this. Usually it winds up with "Why didn't you wait for the next bus when you could have gotten a seat?"

Well, actually they end with curtious people not understanding what has happened in the world that people can not help others when they are in a position to do so, and a vocal minority of people who take the attitude "wait for another bus, this is MY seat"

Why wait for another bus that is also full? No one enters a bus EXPECTING a seat, we will stand if we have to, it was our choice to board the bus and take the risk that it is full of selfish callous people, but it is still nice when someone does something simple to help you.

I used to think when this happened in Disney, that it was due to the large number of foreigners that perhaps do not have this etiquette in their cultures. But I was 9 months pregnant and taking public trasportation in my city (your balance is way of at 9 months pregnant) and I would still have to stand alot of times. Occasionally there was a gentleman....but more often than not I was surrounded by healthy young males that were more interested in their IPODS than in a woman in severe discomfort struggling to reach the holding bar (I'm vertically challenged)

 

[Deb & Bill]

...Why wait for another bus that is also full? No one enters a bus EXPECTING a seat, we will stand if we have to, it was our choice to board the bus and take the risk that it is full of selfish callous people, but it is still nice when someone does something simple to help you. ...

You can't tell a person's condition just by looking at them. I hear that all the time on the threads about big kids in strollers. So, someone who looks perfectly healthy and selfish to you, may have a medical problem that requires them to sit down from time to time.

And, if I have been waiting in line for 45 minutes for a bus, and I finally get a seat after walking all over the park for hours, should I have to give up my seat to someone who just showed up 5 minutes ago or got there as the bus was arriving? If you really want to sit on the bus, wait for the next one.

My husband offered his seat once to a woman. Our son remained in the seat (he was about 7 at the time). She pushed our son up against the bus wall until he couldn't breath so her two older kids (than my son) could squeeze in the seat with her. Those two could have stood.

 

[Dean]

You can't tell a person's condition just by looking at them. I hear that all the time on the threads about big kids in strollers. So, someone who looks perfectly healthy and selfish to you, may have a medical problem that requires them to sit down from time to time.

No question, but your impression may be right on target. There are people who get wheelchairs and ECV's just for the convenience and even some who get them to game the system. They do an injustice to those that need them of course.

 

[my4kids]

You can't tell a person's condition just by looking at them. I hear that all the time on the threads about big kids in strollers. So, someone who looks perfectly healthy and selfish to you, may have a medical problem that requires them to sit down from time to time.

I can't tell a persons conditions by looking at them, but odds are more than one person on the bus is probably healthy. This issue always gets turned around to "don't judge people , maybe they have a health condition" Of course I am not judging anyone - but my guess is that not everyone on the bus has a health condition. The issue is this - If someone is comfortable standing, then they should offer their seat to someone who is not comfortable- or in obvious need. No judging. It rarely happens. And just because some people may not be able to is not a reason to hide behind them and say "well none of us should, because you can't tell if Im able or not"

And as far as the older kids in strollers comment - the difference is this - How the heck does it inconvienence you or your friends and family or anyone else in the park if and older kid (with a health condition, or no condition at all) is tired and jumps in a stroller? While you may not agree with it, it does not affect anyone in the least so it is no one elses business. Not offering someone in need a seat on the bus when you are physically capable does in fact directly affect others.

And, if I have been waiting in line for 45 minutes for a bus, and I finally get a seat after walking all over the park for hours, should I have to give up my seat to someone who just showed up 5 minutes ago or got there as the bus was arriving?

No you shouldn't "have to" but if you can with out being in terrible discomfort, it would be NICE of you to if someone needs it more than you.

If you really want to sit on the bus, wait for the next one.

Done this before, it was usually also very full when it came, and my kids sat and cryed waiting for it.

My husband offered his seat once to a woman. Our son remained in the seat (he was about 7 at the time). She pushed our son up against the bus wall until he couldn't breath so her two older kids (than my son) could squeeze in the seat with her.

So are you saying that just because your husband was a gentleman once and his kindness was met with somewhat rude behavior, we should never be kind to anyone anymore?

Those two could have stood.

yeah, they probably could have, but as you said , you can't tell by looking at them what someone's condition is.

 

[kaytieeldr]

No question, but your impression may be right on target. There are people who get wheelchairs and ECV's just for the convenience and even some who get them to game the system. They do an injustice to those that need them of course.

Sigh.... Just as Deb & Bill indicated in the post about not being able to tell by looking at someone sitting in a seat on public transportation what their medical condition/health status is... one also cannot necessarily tell simply by looking at a person in an ECV or wheelchair what their medical situation is.

And you don't HONESTLY believe using a wheelchair is a convenience, do you? I challenge you to transport yourself in a wheelchair around any of Walt Disney World's four major theme parks for a 'regular' day of touring. Not get a wheelchair and have someone else push you around, or 'swap off' riding in the chair with other members of your party - but experience the park of your choice as someone who MUST use a wheelchair does... then let us know how 'convenient' it was.

As for "gaming the system", gee whiz, don'tcha know, Disney has provided MAINSTREAM access to as many attractions and shows as possible, meaning Guests using mobility assistance devices for the most part traverse ENTIRELY the same queues as Guests on foot.

 

[Dean]

Sigh.... Just as Deb & Bill indicated in the post about not being able to tell by looking at someone sitting in a seat on public transportation what their medical condition/health status is... one also cannot necessarily tell simply by looking at a person in an ECV or wheelchair what their medical situation is.

And you don't HONESTLY believe using a wheelchair is a convenience, do you? I challenge you to transport yourself in a wheelchair around any of Walt Disney World's four major theme parks for a 'regular' day of touring. Not get a wheelchair and have someone else push you around, or 'swap off' riding in the chair with other members of your party - but experience the park of your choice as someone who MUST use a wheelchair does... then let us know how 'convenient' it was.

As for "gaming the system", gee whiz, don'tcha know, Disney has provided MAINSTREAM access to as many attractions and shows as possible, meaning Guests using mobility assistance devices for the most part traverse ENTIRELY the same queues as Guests on foot.

I can tell you for a fact that some people get the wheel chairs and ECVs specifically to get the inherent benefits. I'm not making a judgement only letting you know it DOES happen. I have heard many people specifically state this was their game plan and know people who have told me they did it. I'm sure it happens less now with the changes you point out. I do give up my seat, hold doors, let people in with traffic, drive the speed limit, etc. But there are times when you can tell the benefit is not needed and others where you cannot. If someone pulls up to Wal Mart as the only occupant, parks in a HC spot, jumps out and RUNS into the store you can be 100% certain they do not meet the criteria for a HC parking decal. I'll give anyone he benefit of the doubt but that doesn't mean they're all on the up and up.

 

[Chuck S]

I can tell you for a fact that some people get the wheel chairs and ECVs specifically to get the inherent benefits. I'm not making a judgement only letting you know it DOES happen. I have heard many people specifically state this was their game plan and know people who have told me they did it. I'm sure it happens less now with the changes you point out. I do give up my seat, hold doors, let people in with traffic, drive the speed limit, etc. But there are times when you can tell the benefit is not needed and others where you cannot. If someone pulls up to Wal Mart as the only occupant, parks in a HC spot, jumps out and RUNS into the store you can be 100% certain they do not meet the criteria for a HC parking decal. I'll give anyone he benefit of the doubt but that doesn't mean they're all on the up and up.

For the record, you can't even be 100% sure when someone runs into the store. For instance, if a disabled relative was working or shopping at the store, and you dropped them off, and went back to pick them up, you could park in that spot to go in and fetch them.

 

[my4kids]

For the record, you can't even be 100% sure when someone runs into the store. For instance, if a disabled relative was working or shopping at the store, and you dropped them off, and went back to pick them up, you could park in that spot to go in and fetch them.

This is veering OT, but I just yesterday went to a restaurant with a friend who has a bad knee, and parked in regular parking (as I do not have a HC permit, and my friend is OK to walk, but just not very fast). As we are walking up to the door, a woman sped up to the HC spot, parked, jumped out of the car and literally did a little jog to get around us and put her name in first at the hostess station. I'm not thinking she needed that permit.

 

[Dean]

This is veering OT, but I just yesterday went to a restaurant with a friend who has a bad knee, and parked in regular parking (as I do not have a HC permit, and my friend is OK to walk, but just not very fast). As we are walking up to the door, a woman sped up to the HC spot, parked, jumped out of the car and literally did a little jog to get around us and put her name in first at the hostess station. I'm not thinking she needed that permit.

There are also people who take their pets to resorts and claim they are service animals. Actually this likely is a far larger issue in terms of percentages of abuse than the above.

 

[drakethib]

As a Dad who fights a stroller for my little one, I was a little disappointed that the drivers did not open the back door to make it easier for us.

It may be a rule that they can't though.

 

[TDC Nala]

How do you determine if someone needs a seat more than you?

I give up seats to the elderly if they take them (a lot of the men and some of the women won't), obviously disabled (including pregnant although that's not really a disability, and if I'm sure they're really pregnant because if they're not they'll get mad), and parents holding infants or small children.

Not children old enough to stand on their own, or people who just want to sit next to someone in particular, or people who just look tired.

As a Dad who fights a stroller for my little one, I was a little disappointed that the drivers did not open the back door to make it easier for us.

Here's why they don't.

I was on a bus once where the driver opened the back door to let people out, and some family decided to board through it with an unfolded megastroller with the kid still in it. He didn't see them and closed the bus doors on the stroller...and yes the kid was still in it. Didnt hurt the kid but it messed up the stroller. The parents were angry and yelled at the driver, but they had ignored the signs on the bus doors that said no boarding through the rear door...they were also boarding an unfolded stroller.

I also saw a family attempt to board a bus without folding their stroller. The bus driver told them they had to take the kid out and close the stroller. I believe it was the grandmother who had a triple dying duck fit. She yelled that the child just got to sleep and now they were supposed to take her out of the stroller? What kind of rule was that? The driver said it was dangerous to have strollers rolling around the bus. I guess that would be correct. If they board through the back door, the driver would have to get out and make sure everyone removes the children from the strollers and fold them...because a lot of them won't if they're not told to.

 

[my4kids]

I give up seats to the elderly if they take them (a lot of the men and some of the women won't), obviously disabled (including pregnant although that's not really a disability, and if I'm sure they're really pregnant because if they're not they'll get mad), and parents holding infants or small children.

Not children old enough to stand on their own, or people who just want to sit next to someone in particular, or people who just look tired.

I think that is all that can be expected. (however children who can stand on their own (or any short adult for that matter) can't always reach a rail unless they are standing next to a vertical pole, if they get pushed to a part of the aisle where there are only ceiling high horizontal bars or straps, just holding mommy or daddy's leg is not enough since mommy and daddy are moving and swaying with the bus. So I think anyone tall enough to reach these easily, should also give up to a short person who just can not reach.
Anyone who has a disability that can not be easily seen would have to politely ask I suppose.

No, pregnancy is not a disability, but 9 months pregnant and too short to reach a bus handle with a shifted center of gravity is pretty miserable on a bus. (This is where the extremists start posting "why would you go to Disney 9 months pregnant" - and that is getting into the none of your business area and has no bearing on people being kind or rude. )

 

[ValDisney]

They didn't have any other adults with them to manage the strollers????

Amazing.

There are many moms who are single like me. I was very grateful last October when I went to the Holloween parties. i got back to my resort late and both children fell asleep on the bus. i was very grateful to the people who helped me get my stroller off the bus so i could put my son in it. It was just the umbrella stroller but its hard holding a sleeping child and a stroller at the same time.
i'm going back this dec so thanks in advance and I will help anyone if I can.
Valerie

 

[drakethib]

Here is my thoughts and some may disagree but so be it.

For men.

If you are a man and in good health you should get off your behind and offer your seat to women, children, the elderly, and disabled. End of story. If you don't shame on you. It is called chivarly in my book.

Plus even as a 34 year old male, to this day, if I did not do so and if my mom found out, my mother who is much smaller then I would still tear my hide up if I didn't act like a gentleman.

I have seen where many men have chosen not to do so and saddens me.


I can't speak of what a woman should do. It is not my place to say. What I will say is before we had our little one, my wife would also offer her seat as well to those who may have needed the seat more then her.

 

[Dean]

Here is my thoughts and some may disagree but so be it.

For men.

If you are a man and in good health you should get off your behind and offer your seat to women, children, the elderly, and disabled. End of story. If you don't shame on you. It is called chivarly in my book.

Plus even as a 34 year old male, to this day, if I did not do so and if my mom found out, my mother who is much smaller then I would still tear my hide up if I didn't act like a gentleman.

I have seen where many men have chosen not to do so and saddens me.


I can't speak of what a woman should do. It is not my place to say. What I will say is before we had our little one, my wife would also offer her seat as well to those who may have needed the seat more then her.

I agree, if I didn't my dad would rise up from his grave and beat me even now. I once held the door at the local mall for a woman, I'd say Lady but I'm not sure that is true. She got mad at me and proceeded to tell me, the whole women's lib thing. I just smiled and told her that if it was between what my dad taught me and what she wanted, she'd lose. I continued to hold the door until she finally finished her rant and went inside.

 

[TDC Nala]

I think that is all that can be expected. (however children who can stand on their own (or any short adult for that matter) can't always reach a rail unless they are standing next to a vertical pole, if they get pushed to a part of the aisle where there are only ceiling high horizontal bars or straps, just holding mommy or daddy's leg is not enough since mommy and daddy are moving and swaying with the bus. So I think anyone tall enough to reach these easily, should also give up to a short person who just can not reach.

No, then I'd have to give up a seat to my friend just because I am 5'8" and she is 4"10'.