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[cabanafrau]

I've never understood from the first time it was mentioned why you were consulting elder care attorneys. You've never mentioned your DH's age that I'm aware of, but I suppose he could be significantly older than you.

Quite frankly you're always looking for immediate gratification, the quick fix, the easy answer supplied by someone else without you ever putting in the effort to research and learn the facts for yourself. Your situation is exactly the same as your DH's, nothing about either of your lives will change until each of you takes responsibility for your own situation and makes changes. Just as his situation is never going to change until he decides to address his diet, meds, activities, etc., yours is never going to change until you quit waiting for someone else to hand you a ticket out while you cloak yourself in the busyness of cleaning the bathroom, running him to doctor appointments, making fast food runs, etc. The answers you seek aren't here, neither are the answers for your husband. You need to address your own issues as much, possibly more, than he needs to address his. "Venting" here, seeking answers and cleaning up the bathroom are going to leave you precisely where you are -- no, that's not true, both of your lives are declining by degrees while you both doggedly cling to the brokenness.

 

[Lisaloo]

You are getting a lot of attention from your posts. I have to wonder if that is the goal since it seems like you have complained before about these choices you keep making. This guy is literally crapping all over you and you seem to be a willing participant in the abuse.

 

[ronandannette]

Wow heroin?!! That is a great analogy and should be a wake up call for OP.

And sadly, the true answer is probably YES. Have you ever seen that show Intervention? Lots of people enable their addicts up to and including paying for drugs and driving them to their dealer in order to avoid the conflict that will occur by saying NO. It's not really about the addict at that point - it's about the enabler's feelings...just like with our OP.

When you boil it all down, (and we've been reading similar posts for years now, mind you), the OP can't face how she will feel about herself and/or stand in the face of others' opinions if she leaves. She needs this to be his idea, needs to not be the "bad guy", needs for someone or something else to ultimately "make the decision for her" so that she's not accountable for whatever happens to him then. Heck, she left the guy once and didn't even TELL him...funny thing is, he never noticed because she came right back...

 

[NewRVLady]

OP-I get your pain and I understand feeling stuck in this madhouse you are in.
its easy for all these anonymous posters to give advice and wonder why you don't DO IT ASAP!!


My deceased SIL felt the same-we all urged her to LEAVE DH's brother-he was a miserable person who yelled at her constantly. He wasn't as bad off physically as your DH ( and she had a bunch of $$ she inherited)-and she still would not do it.

 

[Nancyg56]

This is at least the third thread from you with the exact same story. You've been given a lot of good advice in the past, but it's falling on deaf ears. If you're not willing to leave or stop your own enabling behavior, what exactly are you looking for? Do you know how ludicrous it sounds to have gotten him White Castle and Dairy Queen in the span of hours, let alone at all? Yet you wrote it so indifferently, like, "whatever". You even used the passive voice - "he had me go through", not "I went through". Take some responsibility for your actions, or lack thereof, and the resulting circumstances.

If that sounds harsh, I only hope it's to make you see how appalling things look from this side of the keyboard.

I remember this as well, and I am concerned. I was a caregiver for my first husband and it sucked. A lot. I refused to do teh things that the OP is doing. The OP said she has refused her own treatment, so for me, this is a huge red flag. There is no way anyone can provide appropriate care for another if they cannot manage their own medication.

I want my old life back. That isn't going to happen. I guess now I want a life where I do not have to clean up messes all the time, not spend all my time back and forth to doctors appointments, I want live in a pleasant environment.

As far as the impatience, I guess I want my freedom quickly. But you are right, maybe I am not impatient because I have been digging myself in deeper every day that passes. I guess I am just trying to avoid facing reality.

That ship sailed.

From this point forward, no matter what you read about laws, consider his disability income HIS income, and not a shared asset or shared income. I simply will not work that way.

I agree.

Please take this advice. His "income" is from the federal government and has an unbelievable amount of protection from being taken from him. If you plan to move forward in a divorce, or you plan to put him in a home in order to gain access to that monthly "income", it would be a huge mistake. It simply won't happen and I can't explain it further than that.

Best advice in this thread.OP- you have got to accept that there may be a circumstance that you are entitled to HIS income, but that is not a given. Until you have retained an attorney who is skilled in this area, you have no idea what you are entitled to. You only have lawyers who are promising something that may not be a given. and you should not count on this occurring. You could be in a huge sack of trouble if you take SS money.

OP- I am going to be blunt and perhaps some would say rude. I have been a caregiver for my first husband and it was awful, bu ti do think it gives me some insight into what you may be thinking and feeling. You have said that he makes you do things. No...you do what he wants. But let's be honest here.. Much of what you discuss is how you need his income and that you have attempted to research how you could retain his income if he was placed in a facility. So, are you staying with him for the income? And because his health is worsened when you give him the foods you know are detrimental for him, why are you doing so? You really need to think long and hard about this and what the consequences are for him.. and then for you , if you continue to give him sugar laden foods.

You are not the first person who makes decisions based on the income of another, but at least you need to face that is what you may be doing. So, the first thing I would do if I was in your shoes is to get myself to a therapist who could help me manage my own depression. There is no way you can care for him if you cannot care for yourself.

I would also use that opportunity to figure out what I wanted to do. A good therapist can help you with this. You really need to develop a long range plan for yourself. You will not be able to live on his income if he passes, and you cannot count on his income if he is placed in a care facility, I don't care what anyone tells you. You need to figure how to support yourself. It is not ever a good idea to be financially reliant on anyone, especially when the person who you are relying on cannot be relied on. For the love of God, you need his income to survive, you give him food that can kill him, and you refuse to make him responsible for his own health. Why? You need to figure this out.

I am not unsympathetic, but I do think that there is so much here that you need to own and that you are blaming your husband for.

 

[Goofy_Disney_Dad]

I remember this as well, and I am concerned. I was a caregiver for my first husband and it sucked. A lot. I refused to do teh things that the OP is doing. The OP said she has refused her own treatment, so for me, this is a huge red flag. There is no way anyone can provide appropriate care for another if they cannot manage their own medication.



That ship sailed.



I agree.



Best advice in this thread.OP- you have got to accept that there may be a circumstance that you are entitled to HIS income, but that is not a given. Until you have retained an attorney who is skilled in this area, you have no idea what you are entitled to. You only have lawyers who are promising something that may not be a given. and you should not count on this occurring. You could be in a huge sack of trouble if you take SS money.

OP- I am going to be blunt and perhaps some would say rude. I have been a caregiver for my first husband and it was awful, bu ti do think it gives me some insight into what you may be thinking and feeling. You have said that he makes you do things. No...you do what he wants. But let's be honest here.. Much of what you discuss is how you need his income and that you have attempted to research how you could retain his income if he was placed in a facility. So, are you staying with him for the income? And because his health is worsened when you give him the foods you know are detrimental for him, why are you doing so? You really need to think long and hard about this and what the consequences are for him.. and then for you , if you continue to give him sugar laden foods.

You are not the first person who makes decisions based on the income of another, but at least you need to face that is what you may be doing. So, the first thing I would do if I was in your shoes is to get myself to a therapist who could help me manage my own depression. There is no way you can care for him if you cannot care for yourself.

I would also use that opportunity to figure out what I wanted to do. A good therapist can help you with this. You really need to develop a long range plan for yourself. You will not be able to live on his income if he passes, and you cannot count on his income if he is placed in a care facility, I don't care what anyone tells you. You need to figure how to support yourself. It is not ever a good idea to be financially reliant on anyone, especially when the person who you are relying on cannot be relied on. For the love of God, you need his income to survive, you give him food that can kill him, and you refuse to make him responsible for his own health. Why? You need to figure this out.

I am not unsympathetic, but I do think that there is so much here that you need to own and that you are blaming your husband for.

I can't like or agree with what you've written here enough. Thanks for putting it in a way I struggled with.

 

[Hrhpd]

OP, I don't think you are ready yet for change. I have read all 10 pages and there is an excuse for every excellent suggestion you have received.

As a family member of somebody in a very similar situation, except that the sick person is an alcoholic, and the caregiver runs out and says they are "forced" to buy bottles of wine every week, I can tell you that it is just as frustrating for family members on the outside because you cannot help somebody until they are ready for the help. We would love to step in and help, but much like you have posted here, we are met with excuse after excuse why the help won't work. Not for the lack of trying, but we cannot break the toxic, symbiotic relationship without the person buying in that they actually need help. Right now, the caregiver gets a lot of his self worth from a "poor me" mentality, a "look what a hero I am in the midst of all this abuse." But it is a skewed perspective born out of an illness, one that needs a doctor just as badly as the sick person he is taking care of.

I feel for you, just as I feel for our family member. But it is you who has to take that first step. And the first person that has to be helped is you, not your husband. You need to make that call to a mental health professional, you need to go to the appointments and you need to take the medication, which you have indicated in the past you didn't do, if prescribed.

You need help to understand why you are giving a man with a life threatening illness the very thing that will kill him. Do you subconsciously see a prolonged hospitalization or even death as the only way out? You need help to understand what kind of need is inside yourself that is causing you to enable him. You need help to know that you have your own important needs and that it is ok to walk out and have your own life.

We would love to help our family member, but have come to the frustrating realization that you can't help somebody who is not ready to be helped. It is terrifying to watch somebody throw their life away in an abusive, toxic relationship, but we can't force the caregiver out of the toxic situation. We have even had him involuntarily committed (when he started insinuating that the only way out would be suicide,) but it didn't work because he didn't follow through with the help he was getting because he did not buy in yet that he needs as much help as the person he is caring for.

Start looking deep into yourself and try to figure out what you are getting from this relationship, because you are getting something. And then decide if you are worth more than that and should go get help. Because nobody can help you until you want to help yourself. Nobody can help you until you stop making excuses in order to stay in the situation and stop buying things to keep your charge sick. I understand that mental illness, even temporary like this brought on by a perceived hopeless situation, is scary because of the stigma. But you don't have to live like this. There is a brighter world out there. Make that call and more importantly follow through on you. Because you are just as important as your husband.

 

[NHdisneylover]

The OP doesn't want to leave a sick husband, she wants to leave an abusive addict.

To the OP-call the domestic abuse hotline, go to a shelter, call a specialist in domestic abuse situations, please talk to somebody that can help you form a plan to get out. Not just financially, but mentally and emotionally. Leaving an abusive partner is scary; it's why so many women (and men actually) stay in abusive relationships for so long. They're isolated and lonely, please please at least talk to somebody.

Question: was your husband abusive before he had so many complications from diabetes?

I just think this quote needs repeating.

 

[Mizzoufan]

OK, checking in:

It was not the most pleasant of nights last night, he woke me up at like 3:00 AM. My fault though, when I cleaned the bathroom, I forgot to put the toilet riser thing back on the toilet. (Granted when I got to the bathroom, he had it on the toilet, it was just done incorrectly. He had the seat down and was trying to put it on top of that). Either way, this is something he could have figured out on his own, instead it is much easier to start yelling at me. It was my punishment for making a mistake. Thank goodness our neighbor is gone, because this place will not tolerate people making a lot of noise etc...

I did manage to get back to sleep thankfully. After I got up, cleaned the bathroom, again. Picked up around the apartment, again. I let him sleep til almost lunch time, I made lunch and cleaned up the kitchen. After that I just went back to bed. Thankfully he didn't bother me. I slept a while. He had fallen asleep while I was sleeping and was still asleep when I got up and picked up the stuff he left strewn about the place and started getting cooking supper. I served supper and while cleaning up the kitchen he started in on me about how I really should have done laundry today. "I just really thought you would have done some laundry' about 5X. Bonus, he left me a mess in the bathroom. I said something to him about it, and his response is "I cleaned it"... maybe he tried to clean it, but it was still an unholy mess.

Safety is a concern at this point yes... call me paranoid, but I am concerned with that the messes he are making this home a haven for disease. I do not know if this is a legitimate concern or I am just squeamish but after the list of infections he has had (including mrsa) I am going through latex gloves and disinfectant like a maniac. (Not tonight, couple days ago) I about lost it when I went into his room and saw a poop covered wash cloth ON a dinner plate. I threw the plate in the trashcan. Maybe it is extreme and a dishwasher might have disinfected it, but I just couldn't stand it.

In regards to hospital discharge stuff... he behaved so badly in one hospital a few months ago, that is how he ended up in the skilled nursing facility to begin with. He was belligerent with the staff and causing scenes. The social worker helped us get him into a facility that time.

It has been a big volleyball game between mental health services and the physical people. Physical rehab says they cannot fix the mental, and a mental facility will not touch him because of the raging diabetes. They knock it back and forth and it lands on me.

He has said that he most definitely will NOT go back into a facility, so getting him to agree to it would be no easy task. He was like I don't like the BS of having to report to breakfast at 8AM and all that... However, he seems to function the best in such a setting. He actually seemed to be pretty happy in there too.

Either way, this cannot continue. I have to have either him or myself removed from this situation.

You know why he does better at the center. He kinda sounds like he needs you to set boundaries and then enforce them.

 

[cabanafrau]

You know why he does better at the center. He kinda sounds like he needs you to set boundaries and then enforce them.

Exactly, it's not rocket science.

Still trying to wrap my brain around how it's easier to clean up the bathroom, do loads of emergency laundry, run him to endless appointments, fetch him unhealthy foods, flush career and financial future down the tubes than it is to say no and leave him to his own devices if he will not respond appropriately in caring for himself.

 

[Nancyg56]

Exactly, it's not rocket science.

Still trying to wrap my brain around how it's easier to clean up the bathroom, do loads of emergency laundry, run him to endless appointments, fetch him unhealthy foods, flush career and financial future down the tubes than it is to say no and leave him to his own devices if he will not respond appropriately in caring for himself.

The truth is that it is not easier, but until the OP owns her own role in this, their lives will revolve around codependent abuse. I am not sure if that is a word but it is what I believe is happening. It is abusive to treat someone the way the husband treats the OP, but it is also abusive to give sugar laden foods to a man who is diabetic. If his blood sugar is as high as the OP says, that explains some of the behavior. The dynamics of this relationship are horrifying and in my opinion, dangerous for both of them. God forbid this man is admitted to the hospital and the authorities find he is indeed incompetent and the OP has been giving him what amounts to poison for him. I think the OP needs therapy and she needs it quickly. She has already looked into keeping a major portion of his income in the event he needs to be placed in a facility, so if something happens and he is, and someone questions his care....The entire situation is not good.

 

[PlutoPony]

OP - take a first step TODAY.
Decide what you need professional advice on - legal or medical (for yourself) and PICK UP THE PHONE TO MAKE AN APPOINTMENT TODAY.
You might not get into to see this person today but MAKE THE APPOINTMENT TODAY.

Then pick up the phone and make the next appointment.
You CAN take some control of your life and you will feel better once you take the first step. And the next. And the next....

DO IT - DON'T JUST TALK ABOUT IT

 

[Goofy_Disney_Dad]

From what I've read from her posts in this thread, she appears to be as dependent on his disability income as he is. She really needs to start there and gain some personal independence if she ever hopes to move on with her life.

 

[cabanafrau]

The truth is that it is not easier, but until the OP owns her own role in this, their lives will revolve around codependent abuse. I am not sure if that is a word but it is what I believe is happening. It is abusive to treat someone the way the husband treats the OP, but it is also abusive to give sugar laden foods to a man who is diabetic. If his blood sugar is as high as the OP says, that explains some of the behavior. The dynamics of this relationship are horrifying and in my opinion, dangerous for both of them. God forbid this man is admitted to the hospital and the authorities find he is indeed incompetent and the OP has been giving him what amounts to poison for him. I think the OP needs therapy and she needs it quickly. She has already looked into keeping a major portion of his income in the event he needs to be placed in a facility, so if something happens and he is, and someone questions his care....The entire situation is not good.

His chronic, inappropriately addressed diabetes results in a rigidity in his attitude, further diminishing the chances he will either address his diabetes or his psychological issues. His trajectory will only change when the change is forced upon him, which may come in the form of a further health crisis or all enabling support is withdrawn. It's obvious OP is only going to change her behavior when forced by outside events as well, so in this way they are a well matched set.

As far as OP being prosecuted for providing White Castle and DQ, circumstances outlined here in no way rise to anywhere near the levels of prosecution for abuse of a protected individual. First her DH would have to be found to be incapacitated by a court, which he has not. The fact that he was discharged from a rehab facility and deemed able to care for self make it impossible for OP to face any charges as legally her DH shoulders that responsibility alone.

 

[FairestOfThemAll37]

From what I've read from her posts in this thread, she appears to be as dependent on his disability income as he is. She really needs to start there and gain some personal independence if she ever hopes to move on with her life.

This is part of the cycle of abuse. Abusers often make people dependent on them to 1) isolate them and 2) make it harder for them to leave.

yes, the husband has health/addiction issues and that complicates things, but I really think this situation is more about OP leaving her abuser. It may sound easy to all of us to say stop putting up with it and get out. But most of us probably have healthy lives with support networks. The OP has been completely isolated and financially dependent.

Phrases like "it was my punishment for making a mistake" are right out of the abused partner handbook.

OP-is he only verbally/emotionally abusive or is he also physically abusive?

All that talk has been about OP telling the hospital that it isn't a safe environment for the husband and getting him help through the system.

OP I will once again encourage you to go to somebody about your situation in the home not being safe and getting yourself out.

 

[RitaE]

To put it bluntly the entire thing is very dysfunctional and toxic.

My sisters and I used to joke that it wouldn't surprise us to walk into my Dad's room and find Mom injecting vodka into his IV solution while he laid in bed streaming cuss words to let her know his displeasure in how he was so terribly ill and disabled and she hadn't fixed it yet for him. I know for a fact that she snuck alcohol into him at the hospital and cigarettes also. We would warn the nurses and they'd look at us like we were crazy. He's laying there with an oxygen tube in his nose! Of course your Mom isn't giving him a cigarette. That would be madness!!!! Uh, exactly. It was kind of one of those horrific but we have to laugh things because what else could we do. We pretended it was funny in order to cope with it. But the second part of that would be that my Mom would then collapse in tears wailing "But I just can't take this anymore! He treats me so badly. Somebody help meeeee!" Then everybody around would say much of the same advice here that pretty much boils down to "Yes, we will help you but you are going to have to knock it the blankety-blank off." To which she'd tearfully agree and by the end of the next week, it'd all go back to the same thing again.

And it is kind of mean to make fun of her because they were the classic Addict/Enabler dysfunctional relationship and she needed help much more than she needed mockery, but you can't help somebody who simply won't co-operate. Dad controlled Mom with his temper and utilizing her low self-esteem to manipulate her. In many ways my Mom used my Dad to feed her weird emotional need to prove to herself over and over that she simply didn't deserve better and add to that he was also her total identity. She was the person who cared for him. She was so immersed in that identity that her language changed to "We went to the Doctor today and he told us that we have to take this medicine and then we have to ….." Once he was gone, she really saw herself as nothing at all and that's kind of where we all sit over 10 years later. To this day she still talks about the Dad situation as if it is her entire life. More than once I've encountered a medical provider who is under the impression that my Dad recently died and my Mom is still just beginning to grieve. It really isn't fair to say abused people choose to be abused, because of course nobody really wants to live like that - but at the same time anybody who has tried to deal with this type of situation knows just how impossible it is to stop a person who keeps repeating this sort of looping behavior unless the person who needs the help co-operates.

OP I do wish you the best and I sincerely hope that today is the day things are different.

 

[Nancyg56]

His chronic, inappropriately addressed diabetes results in a rigidity in his attitude, further diminishing the chances he will either address his diabetes or his psychological issues. His trajectory will only change when the change is forced upon him, which may come in the form of a further health crisis or all enabling support is withdrawn. It's obvious OP is only going to change her behavior when forced by outside events as well, so in this way they are a well matched set.

As far as OP being prosecuted for providing White Castle and DQ, circumstances outlined here in no way rise to anywhere near the levels of prosecution for abuse of a protected individual. First her DH would have to be found to be incapacitated by a court, which he has not. The fact that he was discharged from a rehab facility and deemed able to care for self make it impossible for OP to face any charges as legally her DH shoulders that responsibility alone.

Oh I know that legally they do not, but all those family members who do not want to be responsible for him may make this woman's life a living Hell for it. Years ago my husbands cousin abused drugs. Now we all loved this woman dearly, and when she was straight, she was wonderful! Well, she was disabled, and on a very limited income. The cousins all wanted to have a family commitment to supplement her income because she was often without basic necessities. My DH thought about her circumstances and told family that he would assume all of her financial obligations. We would pay all her bills, make sure she had plenty of nutritious food, and some spending money, but that we would also be responsible for that little check she received and was not spending on her needs. There was an uproar! How dare he place conditions! Well, neither one of us was willing to fund a drug habit, especially given that she was already on kidney dialysis and every hit was killing her, so we never refused to take her food shopping etc, but I would not give her money. No way was I having her death on my conscience.

Well she passed, and DH aunt told me that we were the only ones who would not give her money, but who always made the trip to her with food, etc. She felt that the rest of them had to live with knowing that every time they enabled her habit they also owned the habit. In Betty's case, no one threw stones at each other, the whole thing was a mess, and people really did try to do the right thing with her, but it sounds like the OP family may not be that way. If she has depression issues now, and something happens and then she is blamed, it will only be worse for her.

 

[cabanafrau]

From what I've read from her posts in this thread, she appears to be as dependent on his disability income as he is. She really needs to start there and gain some personal independence if she ever hopes to move on with her life.

Absolutely true. I submit this situation is far less about OP removing herself from an abusive situation than it is about OP accepting it's time she admit and shoulder the responsibility for her life and her choices for herself. It's my strong suspicion this relationship originated with the dynamic of OP being "taken care of" by her DH and devolved into the untenable situation that currently exists. Until OP changes her mindset about other people providing her the easy, instant solution it's not going to make any difference effectively if she stays in this current mess or jumps into the next frying pan.

 

[barkley]

I've never understood from the first time it was mentioned why you were consulting elder care attorneys. You've never mentioned your DH's age that I'm aware of, but I suppose he could be significantly older than you.

elder law attorneys aren't just for elderly-they are often the most skilled and knowledgeable legal resources for information on Medicare, Medicaid, social security and other issues with the disabled (and their caregivers). you don't like to think about having to deal with this kind of stuff or long term care for people until they get older in life-but when through personal choice or circumstance someone becomes unwilling/unable to care for themselves an elder law attorney can be a tremendous resource (and it's REALY hard when it's someone whose neither a minor nor a senior citizen b/c then you've got agencies like cps and aps who you can call on to get someone/anyone to listen and evaluate the issue-between the ages of 18 and 60 there's not much out there).

op-do a google search or call your local hospitals to see if they have/know of any caregiver support groups. sometimes it takes sitting in a room with others who are going through exactly what you are to realize what is and is not acceptable, and to find the strength and resources to save yourself.

 

[cabanafrau]

elder law attorneys aren't just for elderly-they are often the most skilled and knowledgeable legal resources for information on Medicare, Medicaid, social security and other issues with the disabled (and their caregivers). you don't like to think about having to deal with this kind of stuff or long term care for people until they get older in life-but when through personal choice or circumstance someone becomes unwilling/unable to care for themselves an elder law attorney can be a tremendous resource (and it's REALY hard when it's someone whose neither a minor nor a senior citizen b/c then you've got agencies like cps and aps who you can call on to get someone/anyone to listen and evaluate the issue-between the ages of 18 and 60 there's not much out there).

op-do a google search or call your local hospitals to see if they have/know of any caregiver support groups. sometimes it takes sitting in a room with others who are going through exactly what you are to realize what is and is not acceptable, and to find the strength and resources to save yourself.

I pointed it out because it's an odd way for someone who is not using the attorney's services in an elder capacity to refer to the attorney as such. I come across these issues as part of my job and it sticks out to me as unusual.