Moderate or Value Disney Resort as a DVC???

[Dean]

I was thinking about the future of DVC and the chances of whether EP would actually happen. One of the reasons I could come up with for DVC to continue in the business is guaranteed guests for WDW. Then my thoughts moved to Pop Century which is a large resort on permanent hold for now.

So here's my question. What do the members here think about Disney selling a value resort (like Pop Century) or a moderate (like French Quarter) as a timeshare idea? If you think it's a possibility, do you think it could be fit into the current DVC or would it need to be a totally separate entity? If you think it could be incorporated, how do you see the rules to protect the current DVC members. Would you buy this type of membership for the appropriate price and if so, are you a member of DVC also.

I can't think of anywhere that has a timeshare for just a regular hotel without the minikitchen but if it could work anywhere, it'd be at WDW. Just think, more guaranteed guests and since there's no kitchen, more guaranteed restaurant income as well. I have just started thinking about this and I'll post my thoughts later when I have more time.

 

[mb168]

I'm sure it would sell, but I wouldn't buy it. Two nights at CBR is what convinced my wife we were gonna buy DVC or not come back! She would "never stay at a moderate again." WL and VWL spoiled her even on $$$ and our first trip home to OKW Labor day slammed it home.

 

[Richyams]

I remember one of the press releases or something that some posted. It mentioned something about waiting for a better deal, or a more inexpensive DVC or something. There was some small amount of speculation about the treehouse villas, but that was quahed for some reason.

It still seemed that the press release aluded to something like DIV(Saratoga ?????) was going to be less expensive. It seemed to indicate something along the lines of moderate or value.

I think it would be a big draw. Disney was surprised at the number of people that bought to use only the studios. I think many would love to get a one bedroom at studio point levels or something to that effect. I think it could be incorporated into the current system. We already have three levels of points throught WDW DVC, OKW, SV and everything else is PV. I think they could add VV(value view) and have these rooms be the not much improved old DI villas. THey were nice.

Does anyone else remember the post or article that I am refering to?

 

[CaptainMidnight]

Seems like a good alternative to me as long as the point values reflected the differences and accounted for demand levels.

 

[Johnnie Fedora]

How many points would you spend to stay at the Villas of Pop Century?

 

[sheryl0521]

I would only say 3-5 points a night for Pop Century. We purchased DVC because of the deluxe accomodations. I don't want to sound like a bi#$*, but after staying at CS last year, we decided we didn't want to stay anywhere but the deluxe resorts.

Just my .02.

 

[fkj2]

Oh, I don't know.....if you think about how far you could stretch those already existing points.

The problem as I see it, what if someone buys points (cheaper) to stay at a converted POP Century resort and then wants to use them at OKW, BCV, VWL, etc. Then you have to get into differentiating between those points and premium points, so to speak.

 

[joepoe]

It seems DVC has all it can handle in selling the Deluxe model, with prices continuing upward. There is so much more competition for the hotel dollar of those who want to go more for a budget room. Orlando is full of cheap accomodations.

Having said that, we all know how popular the studio is with DVC members. Why not build more DEDICATED studios at Saratoga Springs and Eagle Pines, etc? That way people have more budget options, but are still part of the deluxe resort with all the amenities. Also, why not at the same time lower the minimum point buy-in? That will bring in more buyers and get them hooked like the rest of us!

 

[Richyams]

No, I don't think that would be a problem. The points would cost the same and go as far at the regular DVC resorts, the point schedule would be lower and maybe the corrosponding minimum number to buy could be lower since the points per night would be lower.

 

[Lesley]

Sorry, Disney would have to pay me to stay at Pop Century.

That said, I have no problem with the moderate resorts (I've never stayed in a value resort, so I can't comment there). I will say that I've become accustomed to larger beds and better accomodations after a few stays at deluxe and DVC resorts....and though the moderate resorts are fine, they just aren't the same.

I think if points were low enough (unlike the points cost to stay at a moderate as it stands now) I'd probably occasionally go for a few nights in a moderate on points.

Now the idea of selling one of the moderates (or god forbid, Pop Century....my solution for that one is a wrecking ball) as a DVC? Hmmmm...I don't know that I'd buy points there, but if I could use my other points there and they were very low, why not? I think they'd need to very carefully assess the demand for such a thing. It would be horrible if they did a 75 point buy in level, then have all these new members not staying at their home resort, but at the deluxe DVC's. Though I suppose the 11-7 setup for home resorts would protect most of us earlier members....only those who tend to book on short notice would be effected very badly. And it might actually mean there would be more short notice availability....at the new moderate DVC. Or perhaps they could make it a 6 month reservation window rather than 11-7.

Actually, if I recall correctly, I did say to my dh when we stayed at POR this summer that I'd join a DVC there if they had one. The place is incredibly beautiful and relaxing. It would probably be possible to add a small fridge and microwave to those rooms....just replace the trunk with a kitchenette.....or redo the bathroom sink area. That would make them more equivalent to a studio...but still not quite there. I can honestly say, keeping a cooler stocked with ice is not at all the same as having a fridge! CB does have larger rooms that might work better, but I don't think the theme there is as conducive to a DVC...repeat visitors may want a more relaxing environment.

I would be interested in seeing the results of any market research done on this one......

 

[fkj2]

of this Pop Century? I've not seen it but from what I've read.....it isn't good.

 

[doubletrouble_vb]

The only way I could see them getting demand for DVC-Pop Century is if the buyers were buying for the purpose of staying at the other DVC's. So that means all your last minute bookers would be staying at Pop Century.

On the other hand I think this might be viable for part of Port Orleans - Riverside or French Quarter. Studios only unless they started knocking out walls. It would have the advantage of sucking up some of the moderate space which would force more cash customers either up or down in accomodations. The downwardly mobile ones could stay in Pop Century.

I have to add I don't see any advantage to Disney with regard to lowering the entry point level. It would be more administrative overhead for little or no benefit to the corporation. At the 150 point level they are selling like hotcakes.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

I think this would work just fine, and be a good idea. After all, there is a large number of repeat visitors that stay in moderates/values. If these folks could do it with the price advantage of DVC, I see it as a 'win-win' situation.

It would be horrible if they did a 75 point buy in level, then have all these new members not staying at their home resort, but at the deluxe DVC's. Though I suppose the 11-7 setup for home resorts would protect most of us earlier members....only those who tend to book on short notice would be effected very badly.

In addition, the desire to stay at the deluxe DVCs would be incentive to by more than a 75 point initial contract.

 

[carone0318]

I don't know, I might consider it. I do not find that I am spoiled by DVC. I am perfectly happy with a studio. We eat the main meal for the day in the park somewhere and we only need a microwave to heat up snacky foods and a frig for drinks. We don't hang in the room, all we do is sleep there. I also just want to add that I have stayed in the 1-bdrm and 2 bdrm units also at BWV and OKW and I am still ok with a studio. Growing up when we sporatically went on vacation, we would stay in a hotel room (there were 4 in my family). I can now say that I treat my own family of 4 (dh, dd and ds) to a vacation at the most magically place on earth every year and we have the luxury to have a frig and a microwave. That's all I need. I know, I am of the minority....

I only seem to have issues and get my snobbish appeal when I go to hotel rooms other than Disney and I'm like, well I could stay in a place better than this in Disney for the same or less amt of money.

Just my .02. If the scenario played out, I might look and consider.

 

[dizfanz]

Dean and others, instead of going through the legal work to sell these properties as a DVC resort, why not just make these WDW resorts more economical on a DVC points basis, that is if your goal is to fill the rooms and the restaurants, etc... The Disney Collection has moderate resorts available and not value resorts. Moderate resorts in value season are 19 points/night(Sun-Thurs) and 34 pts(Fri and Sat). Huh, let's see, a one bedroom at OKW or standard size hotel room at PO, CS, CBR? Decisions, decisions. Do you really need to go the extra mile if the goal is to fill the resort. I understand technically they are seperate companies, blah, blah, blah. So maybe 4-5 pts is not reasonable. But again, if you use this as a selling tool to a family that is on a budget, drop the minimum # of points from say 150 to 100 or lower (50???) and telling someone instead of staying at a DVC resort, they can stay at PO for 4-5 pts/night, what is wrong with that. Why can't Disney Collection be more affordable???

I am sure someone will reply with some legal standpoint or the fact that that wouldn't be prudent for Disney because everyone would be DVC then, but I ask the same question: If the resort and the restaurants are filled, who cares how they got there??

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Ya know, I just had a thought about Pop Century.
DVC is known as a world class timeshare, and I don't think PC would fit into that mold. It may be a good move for both guests and filling the parks, but I feel that the long term negative DVC image may outweigh that. I think French Quarter may be okay though....just a thought.

 

[Peterd]

I would think if DVC were to add resorts, they should either keep the same quality we know with the others, or improve it. Making an economy hotel able to trade into the Deluxe resorts wouldn't benefit the owners of these Deluxe resorts. Can you imagine the phones at the 7 month window? We would be forced to make resv. between 7 and 11 months. At least now, if we wait too late, you can lose your home resort, but still have a shot at one of the other DVC properties, (not such a bad thing). Put an economy resort in the mix, and we'll find out our last minute trip options would be the economy resort, because they all traded into our home resorts.

 

[CarolMN]

I'm having trouble believing that a moderate or value DVC resort could work as part of the existing DVC. Perhaps it is because of my assumption that construction costs for the mod or value hotel would not be significantly less than construction costs of a deluxe resort. I know there are some DIS posters with construction/architectural experience. Is my assupmtion regarding costs correct or am I way off base?


Would Disney be able to recover construction costs by charging less than the per point cost it charges now?

Wouldn't the points per night to stay at the mod/value have to be a lot less than the points per night to stay at the deluxe resorts?

If they are not, why would someone buy into (or stay at) a moderate or value if they could buy (or stay at) a deluxe for the same or nearly the same price (point cost)?

What about annual operating costs? Does anyone think they could operate a moderate or value hotel for a lot less per point than it costs to operate OKW? Would you want to pay the same or nearly the same annual dues for a mod/value as you pay for a deluxe? I assume the mod or value would still have pools, food courts/restaurants, grounds keepers, security, etc. Wouldn't daily housekeeping be expected if the hotel consists of standard rooms?

Disney wouldn't be continuing to build DVC deluxe resorts if they weren't among the more profitable investments available to them. If I were making the decision on this, I'd have to ask why we would invest in mod/value DVC resorts (and compete with ourselves) if we already had a proven profitable alternative.


Interesting thread. I look forward to reading more opinions on the subject.

 

[SamS]

My wife and I recently stayed at AKL and CBR. We thoroughly enjoyed both experiences, but we pretty much agree that AKL was not worth twice the money. We have since purchased at BCV, but our first trip home is not until June. I might think differently after we experience BCV, but right now I'd have to give CBR some consideration if a stay there were half the points of BCV. We only own 200 points, and could do more time if "cheaper" accomodations were available. Pop Century? I doubt it.

 

[Dean]

Rich, I think you're referring to one of the articles about DI which talked about renovating some of the older units. It didn't really say they would be part of DVC. As I understand it, some of those units could not be rebuilt if torn down to the ground. I have trouble seeing the old units in DVC proper.

I must say that I posted this with little preconceived feelings and thoughts. I am actually surprised that there was as much positive discussion about it as there has been. My thoughts currently fall into 2 categories. One is related to the idea as a business decision for WDW and the other as it pertains to the reasonableness of incorporating this into DVC itself.

From a business standpoint, it makes sense to me. Even if it’s a break even for WDW from a direct cost/reimbursement standpoint, the overall company wins (parks, restaurants, DD, etc). What are there, 3500 rooms at PC. Can you imagine a guaranteed steady stream of say another 7000 guests every day. I’m sure a large percent would be those that would have stayed at All Stars and Moderates anyway but many would have stayed off property and many others would not have been there at that time at all. I’d say put a micro-fridge and add a wet bar idea to the vanity area and you’re pretty set. As noted, it wouldn’t be a BW or BC studio but it would be workable. You also make staying on WDW property more affordable for a much larger group of visitors. You then add a restaurant idea with the food court. My idea is a set up similar to Coronado but without the fancy dining option, maybe more like PO but bigger. Also much less upkeep and maid costs for Disney compared to operating as a regular hotel.

From a DVC standpoint, I have trouble fitting it in directly. You would almost have to have a separate “Disney Cheap Club (DCC)” or whatever fancy name you could come up with. You could link the 2 with a less than 7 month priority window as was noted earlier. If you wanted to keep the points comparable, I’d say 4-6 points for weekdays at the value and 7-9 at the moderates roughly. Or you could have a separate points system with a conversion factor. This would appeal to a different type of visitor than DVC or those that would like to be in DVC but just can’t afford it. I would think that a minimum stay of say 3 days would be in order and sell every other year (EOY) options. Maybe even requiring 3 days F-S or 4 days S-T. Based on DVC points totals, I’d say a minimum of 50 points with set points packages something like 50, 75, 100 and so on with an EOY option.

I agree that WDW should consider having more reasonable DC options but at this time it’s just one company bargaining with another and the resorts seem to have the upper hand on DVC. This would go away with a DCC as the conversions and exchanges would be pretty set. They would need to be careful not to dilute the DVC value and experience. I’m sure I’ll think of a lot more later. Thanks for all of the different view points.