MM+ never materialized?

[cakebaker]

The initial thought was that this would be cheaper and for some people it's clearly enough. This whole thing works great for the blissfully unaware and the people with unlimited time and resources. As people have stated the project is a success for them simply because they can now sleep in and still get a FP for one ride at EPCOT or HS. They're fine with the rest as long as that one thing works out at some point during their trip.

I'm not sure why some people who don't like FP+ insist that those of us who do are either "blissfully unaware", have more time or money than anyone else, or like to lay on our backsides and sleep in.

Why can't you just accept that no matter how much you hate it, for some people FP+ is a huge improvement over the old system? It works for us and it works well. It isn't because we are "unaware"- we've visited WDW for many, many years. It isn't that we like to sleep in- we never do. It is certainly not because we have unlimited resources or time- Ours is a family of teachers- our time is extremely limited and teachers are not wealthy. And it is certainly not because we have low expectations and getting to ride 1 ride at Epcot or HS would satisfy us. We manage over the course of our trips to ride all the headliners at Epcot at least once without waiting in lines.

We wouldn't have needed fp+ for HM, JC or POTC and we would not have stood in long lines without it. In fact, these attractions (POTC being closed this trip) were absolute walk ons for us- every time we rode them in June and we rode them multiple times over the course of our trip. We also rode them without waits on our previous 2 trips that were much shorter- fewer times, but still no waiting in long lines.

I fully accept some people hate FP+, that it does not work for them and they feel as though they were much better off with the old system. It would be nice, if without the demeaning generalizations, those who dislike it could accept that there are others who have high demands and expectations and find that FP+ not only meets those demands and expectations, it exceeds them.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

I'm not sure why some people who don't like FP+ insist that those of us who do are either "blissfully unaware", have more time or money than anyone else, or like to lay on our backsides and sleep in.

Why can't you just accept that no matter how much you hate it, for some people FP+ is a huge improvement over the old system? It works for us and it works well. It isn't because we are "unaware"- we've visited WDW for many, many years. It isn't that we like to sleep in- we never do. It is certainly not because we have unlimited resources or time- Ours is a family of teachers- our time is extremely limited and teachers are not wealthy. And it is certainly not because we have low expectations and getting to ride 1 ride at Epcot or HS would satisfy us. We manage over the course of our trips to ride all the headliners at Epcot at least once without waiting in lines.

We wouldn't have needed fp+ for HM, JC or POTC and we would not have stood in long lines without it. In fact, these attractions (POTC being closed this trip) were absolute walk ons for us- every time we rode them in June and we rode them multiple times over the course of our trip. We also rode them without waits on our previous 2 trips that were much shorter- fewer times, but still no waiting in long lines.

I fully accept some people hate FP+, that it does not work for them and they feel as though they were much better off with the old system. It would be nice, if without the demeaning generalizations, those who dislike it could accept that there are others who have high demands and expectations and find that FP+ not only meets those demands and expectations, it exceeds them.

I thought it would be obvious that the blissfully unaware was in regards to people like my brother-in-law who think any FP+ is a good FP+ not knowing that they've created artificial lines and interest in attractions.

I'm acknowledging that it works for some and most people who like it give the answer that they don't have to get up or get 10 day trips. I'm glad that you are able to ride Soarin and TT on the same trip without FP but that requires multiple trips now where it didn't in the past and that's losing efficiency any way you look at it.

I don't know of anything in history that has had everyone love it and that's part of life but it doesn't change the fact that there are far more negatives than positives in this experiment.

 

[wisblue]

I think that quote you posted and that interview were late in the game when things had already changed.

Agree to disagree, but it's always been pretty clear to me that these interactive elements were originally planned to be one of the cornerstones of MM+. Plans change, but if you're saying that was never the plan, or that was just one little extra that was a maybe ... that's not the impression I got.

I don't remember exactly what articles and things I saw over the last few years that influenced my expectations for MM+.

But, here is something from Undercover Tourist from January, 2013 that includes a link to a Disney press release (yes, they do issue press releases about things like this) and a link to a blog entry from Tom Staggs describing MM+:

https://www.undercovertourist.com/b...n-in-trip-planning-with-mymagic-and-fastpass/

The press release describes what I have considered to be the main focus of MM+: MDE, Magic bands, FP+, and the systems changes needed to support them, and concludes with the statement "Like any offering, MyMagic+ will evolve over time based on guest and cast member feedback. Additional features are in development and will be introduced in the future."

I have always been under the impression that a significant amount of the money spent on MM+ was for the purpose of upgrading systems and allowing them to work with each other as part of MDE. Staggs refers to this in his 2014 interview when he says "On the technical side, as you would imagine, a place like Walt Disney World operates with a myriad of underlying systems. Getting all of those systems to talk with one another and through an integrated thing like MyMagic+ is a huge undertaking. That's taken a lot of time and effort." That is why I have thought that statements like "Disney spent X billions of dollars on a ride reservation system" are extremely simplistic.

Even if the specific plans may have changed, I am not concluding that things can't be done with some of the structure that is now in place. As the "Messy" article says, the Imagineers see MM+ as a tool that they can work with. How they choose to use it, if at all, remains to be seen.

 

[cakebaker]

I'm acknowledging that it works for some and most people who like it give the answer that they don't have to get up or get 10 day trips.

Yes, it's the descriptions you give of those who like it that I take issue with. Many people say they like not having to be at rope drop, but that doesn't mean they're sleeping in.

Btw- we've had 1 trip in all our trips to WDW that was 10 days or more in length and that was more than 10 years ago. Our last trip was 8, the second longest ever and the 2 previous trips were 3 and 4 days in length. In all 3 trips, FP+ worked very well for us. A vast majority of our trips are 5-6 days long.

I'm glad that you are able to ride Soarin and TT on the same trip without FP but that requires multiple trips now

That's how we do it, but it can be done by using rope drop or emh's as well. FP+ has far more negatives than positives for you, but not everyone.

Generalizations are rarely accurate.

 

[Kalliope]

I'm not sure why some people who don't like FP+ insist that those of us who do are either "blissfully unaware", have more time or money than anyone else, or like to lay on our backsides and sleep in.

Why can't you just accept that no matter how much you hate it, for some people FP+ is a huge improvement over the old system? It works for us and it works well. It isn't because we are "unaware"- we've visited WDW for many, many years. It isn't that we like to sleep in- we never do. It is certainly not because we have unlimited resources or time- Ours is a family of teachers- our time is extremely limited and teachers are not wealthy. And it is certainly not because we have low expectations and getting to ride 1 ride at Epcot or HS would satisfy us. We manage over the course of our trips to ride all the headliners at Epcot at least once without waiting in lines.

We wouldn't have needed fp+ for HM, JC or POTC and we would not have stood in long lines without it. In fact, these attractions (POTC being closed this trip) were absolute walk ons for us- every time we rode them in June and we rode them multiple times over the course of our trip. We also rode them without waits on our previous 2 trips that were much shorter- fewer times, but still no waiting in long lines.

I fully accept some people hate FP+, that it does not work for them and they feel as though they were much better off with the old system. It would be nice, if without the demeaning generalizations, those who dislike it could accept that there are others who have high demands and expectations and find that FP+ not only meets those demands and expectations, it exceeds them.

Was there something in that quoted post that made you think he was referring to you?

 

[LOL!]

It's starting to smell to me like a project that was sold on big dreams and promises (internally, in terms of returns and profit etc) based on an urgency that scared many of the brass (parks becoming stale).

But it didn't quite deliver so now the internal message is let's be quiet about it and move on. Promote the pieces we have in place, but let's move on to other things.

Disappointing, yes. But not unusual at all in larger corporations.

 

[Robo]

A totally fictional tale:

One day at corporate headquarters.

The "suits" ask the padawans to tell them about the cool new thing.

Then, after discussions, everyone agrees that "*****" is cool and new.
Then the suits assign the creation of the new "***** project" to the padawans, and big bucks start funding it.

Months later, padawans preview the "***** project" to the suits.
Suits, of course, don't get it, but hey, it's GOT to be cool as that was the whole point, no?
So, more bucks roll into the "***** project" and it gets set in concrete.

NOW, we're ready for the grand public announcement.
THAT comes from the suits.

The announcement is not exactly CLEAR, of course.

(Not primarily because of secrecy, but because the suit doesn't fully understand what the project is or how it works... never has.)

So, armed with very little clear background info from the grand announcement,
those who are the intended "beneficiaries" of the "***** project" start to ask questions.

Since the padawan creators had never ever actually EXPERIENCED what really happens on the front lines, the intended "beneficiaries" of the "***** project" questions are dismissed... as them not fully understanding the magnitude of the blessing about to be poured down their throats. Oops, I mean "offered unto them."

Next, they start to implement the "***** project" in the form of dipping-toes-into-the-water "tests."

It's at this point the intended "beneficiaries" really begin to ask the tough what/why/where questions and the suits...
restate what was said at "last April's announcement" (because that's as much as the suits know about it, to this day.)

What happens next is always the hard part to predict.

Could be:

A. The intended "beneficiaries" try the real-deal rollout and are happy.
Goodness, light and joy prevail. Big bonuses. Promotions, padawans start wearing suits.

B. The intended "beneficiaries" try the real-deal rollout and are NOT happy.
Finger-pointing. Suits duck and throw pink slips. Padawans go to work for JCP advertising dept.

C. The tests are delayed and delayed and delayed.
Due to unforeseen circumstances...
The intended "beneficiaries" never get to try the real-deal...
and are happy.


-Burma Shave

 

[3DisneyFanz]

It's starting to smell to me like a project that was sold on big dreams and promises (internally, in terms of returns and profit etc) based on an urgency that scared many of the brass (parks becoming stale).

But it didn't quite deliver so now the internal message is let's be quiet about it and move on. Promote the pieces we have in place, but let's move on to other things.

Disappointing, yes. But not unusual at all in larger corporations.

I firmly believe that a large reason for the massive overhaul at DHS is to provide a new bright shiny object to distract from the MM+ experience.

 

[wisblue]

It's starting to smell to me like a project that was sold on big dreams and promises (internally, in terms of returns and profit etc) based on an urgency that scared many of the brass (parks becoming stale).

But it didn't quite deliver so now the internal message is let's be quiet about it and move on. Promote the pieces we have in place, but let's move on to other things.

Disappointing, yes. But not unusual at all in larger corporations.

That could very well be. And I worked in some large companies where things like that happened, though they weren't subject to the same kind of scrutiny that Disney is now, mainly because of the nature of their businesses and partly because those things took place before the pervasiveness of today's social media.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

A totally fictional tale:

One day at corporate headquarters.

The "suits" ask the padawans to tell them about the cool new thing.

Then, after discussions, everyone agrees that it "*****" is cool and new.
Then the suits assign the creation of the new "***** project" to the padawans, and big bucks start funding it.

Months later, padawans preview the "***** project" to the suits.
Suits, of course, don't get it, but hey, it's GOT to be cool as that was the whole point, no?
So, more bucks roll into the "***** project" and it gets set in concrete.

NOW, we're ready for the grand public announcement.
THAT comes from the suits.

The announcement is not exactly CLEAR, of course.

(Not primarily because of secrecy, but because the suit doesn't fully understand what the project is or how it works... never has.)

So, armed with very little clear background info from the grand announcement,
those who are the intended "beneficiaries" of the "***** project" start to ask questions.

Since the padawan creators had never ever actually EXPERIENCED what really happens on the front lines, the intended "beneficiaries" of the "***** project" questions are dismissed... as them not fully understanding the magnitude of the blessing about to be poured down their throats Oops, I mean "offered unto them."

Next, they start to implement the "***** project" in the form of dipping-toes-into-the-water "tests."

It's at this point the intended "beneficiaries" really begin to ask the tough what/why/where questions and the suits...
restate what was said at "last April's announcement" (because that's as much as the suits know about it, to this day.)

What happens next is always the hard part to predict.

Could be:

A. The intended "beneficiaries" try the real-deal rollout and are happy.
Goodness, light and joy prevail. Big bonuses. Promotions, padawans start wearing suits.

B. The intended "beneficiaries" try the real-deal rollout and are NOT happy.
Finger-pointing. Suits duck and throw pink slips. Padawans go to work for JCP advertising dept.

C. The tests are delayed and delayed and delayed.
Due to unforeseen circumstances...
The intended "beneficiaries" never get to try the real-deal...
and are happy.


-Burma Shave

It's like a living, breathing Dilbert cartoon.

 

[LOL!]

That could very well be. And I worked in some large companies where things like that happened, though they weren't subject to the same kind of scrutiny that Disney is now, mainly because of the nature of their businesses and partly because those things took place before the pervasiveness of today's social media.

Me too. Man, the stories we could probably tell each other, huh? Seems a lot of companies have those same bright stars with bright ideas who manage to be heard by the right audience, an audience who despite having seen the play many times before always falls for the new act. The stage clears pretty fast when the theater catches fire.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Apples and oranges. Not at all the same thing, as Larryz noted above.

I've also been involved in designing, testing, releasing, and support management of multi-platform software. Windows machines are notorious for hardware-based issues due to the infinite number of potential configurations.

Not really. Implying that a piece of technology can never fail, sharing your work experience, but leaving out that your work place is not immune to malfunction is not apples and oranges.

 

[jtowntoflorida]

It's starting to smell to me like a project that was sold on big dreams and promises (internally, in terms of returns and profit etc) based on an urgency that scared many of the brass (parks becoming stale).

But it didn't quite deliver so now the internal message is let's be quiet about it and move on. Promote the pieces we have in place, but let's move on to other things.

Disappointing, yes. But not unusual at all in larger corporations.

I agree. With all of these BIG PLANS for the parks ($3.5B supposedly at WDW, $1B at DL), I predict all of those enhancements to MyMagic+ are going by the wayside. Why would they keep dumping money into a system that doesn't have a great ROI? It just doesn't make any sense. Disney is moving away from the rhetoric that the MBs and MM+ are helping to increase guest spending for a reason. They can't keep misleading the analysts about the return on a $1B investment so they are going to have to steer the conversation away from MM+ and hopefully to something else. Lucky for them, Frozen, the Avengers, and now Inside Out, and probably in the near future Star Wars are providing perfect cover from an overall revenue perspective and are a much more interesting conversation than wristbands. And maybe a glimmer of hope...if Disney is going really to focus on what is actually a winning strategy--new and more actual attractions in the parks--then the guests will win, too. In 5 years, we (hopefully) won't be talking about how the IASW screens don't give us a personal good-bye or how we never did get a text with a coupon for a Dole Whip because we're going to be focused on all the new things. It's just too bad that Disney didn't realize a few years ago that the attractions are how you keep guests happy and engaged.

 

[momof2n2]

C. The tests are delayed and delayed and delayed.
Due to unforeseen circumstances...
The intended "beneficiaries" never get to try the real-deal...
and are happy.

Or D?
The tests are delayed and delayed and delayed.
Due to unforeseen circumstances...
The intended "beneficiaries" never get to try the real-deal...
and are Unhappy with the bits they did get?

 

[Robo]

Or D?
The tests are delayed and delayed and delayed.
Due to unforeseen circumstances...
The intended "beneficiaries" never get to try the real-deal...
and are Unhappy with the bits they did get?

Yup.
Some from column A, some from column B, plus egg roll and crab rangoon.

 

[WillAustin]

Not really. Implying that a piece of technology can never fail, sharing your work experience, but leaving out that your work place is not immune to malfunction is not apples and oranges.

That was never implied or said by me. But, the tech behind MM+ is not some unprecedented momentous endeavor that has never been done before in technology. All they are essentially doing is moving data around in databases. There are many companies that deliver very well on far more intense and complex data for tens of millions of users being interacted with and changed constantly (and in real time, I might add). They also don't have 2-3 year roll-outs or lead time. And if they don't deliver on things their executives discuss with reporters, they get killed for it, deservedly or not. Two or three years is a very, very long time in technology.

 

[flicx]

To me the MM plus is equal to fords introduction of the edsel.

 

[socrateze]

A lot of us that work daily in customer-facing technology and know exactly how rolling out things like this works have higher hopes and expectations than that. I've worked with several teams involved in far more complex online databases, system interfacing, load management and interaction with public facing hardware and software. A couple of years is a long time.

It's ridiculous that they still have issues with MagicBands suddenly unable to unlock my room.

What amazes me, is that they added this new technology onto old glitchie software programs and have been trying to fix everything via work arounds. Disney needed to update their software platforms before they added MM+. I don't think they will be adding any additional features, it's too expensive and their IT platforms are too unreliable. Kudos to the people that managed to sell Disney the bag of magic beans, oh I mean MM+/ MDE.

 

[IrishNYC]

I firmly believe that a large reason for the massive overhaul at DHS is to provide a new bright shiny object to distract from the MM+ experience.

And nothing to do with what many say about DHS needing an overhaul and new attractions, and should be shuttered completely while they do that?

 

[mom2rtk]

What amazes me, is that they added this new technology onto old glitchie software programs and have been trying to fix everything via work arounds. Disney needed to update their software platforms before they added MM+. I don't think they will be adding any additional features, it's too expensive and their IT platforms are too unreliable. Kudos to the people that managed to sell Disney the bag of magic beans, oh I mean MM+/ MDE.

...... which begs the question........ if they did all of this without upgrading their old glitchy software programs............ what on earth DID they spend all that money on!