MLB: Prepare for shock and collapse

[JoeThaNo1Stunna]

Pretty reliable rumors that both Johnny Damon and Roger Clemens have failed steroid tests. Being reported by major sources such as Fox Sports now, and came from the same source who first broke Palmeiro's news.

I heard about this a few weeks ago from a friend that works with Sporting News, and absolutely didn't want to believe it.

THe funny thing is I know everyone will forgive these two (as they did Giambi), but they won't forgive Bonds or Palmeiro. It boils down to hypocrisy and racism in my opinion.

The bottom line is if this is true, Clemens especially should be ashamed of himself. He is one of the best role models in baseball and to cheat like this?

It really sickens my stomach. I hope the media applies the same standard that they did for Palmeiro. It will be interesting to see if Peter Gammons will say that Clemens does not deserve to be in the Hall of this, because he claimed that Palmeiro would not get his vote.

Clemens is a fraud and a cheat if this is true and his records should all be striken from the book!

 

[Bob Slydell]

THe funny thing is I know everyone will forgive these two (as they did Giambi), but they won't forgive Bonds or Palmeiro. It boils down to hypocrisy and racism in my opinion.

Wait, weren't you the one *****ing last week about people applauding Raffy? Now you're claiming nobody's forgiving him? Which story are you going with?

ETA: Nobody's "forgiving" Bonds (not that there's anything that needs to be forgiven, since he's not been busted for anything), not because he's black, but because he's a tool and has effectively pissed off every media person and most fans.

 

[JoeThaNo1Stunna]

Baltimore fans forgave him, not the logical rest of the world.

If he really did fail the test I definitely think the Astros should forfeit any games he won this season. It is absolutely not fair that they have the advantage of a juiced up pitcher.

But maybe he just miracuously started getting better once he turned 40.

 

[Bob Slydell]

If you're going to start going back through history and making teams forfeit for cheating players, you've got a lot of work to do. Start with all the games Phil Niekro pitched in, all the games played by players with corked bats, etc., etc.

If they've tested positive, suspend them like anyone else. Just because they're bigger stars doesn't mean they have a different set of rules. No, I don't think MLB's steroid policy is tough enough, but as long as it is the way it is, apply it evenly.

 

[Papa Deuce]

Hmmm, I wonder, if Michael Irvin had ever been tested before a game or in season.... No way that idiot would have tested clean every single time, IMO.

Should Baltimore forfeit EVERY GAME that Raffy was in? Should Boston forfeit every game Damon was in.... both, if true?

The ONLY way any of this works is if EVERYBODY gets tested ALL the time, like bike riders.

I'm not for illegal drug usage of any kind. But at the same time you can't be testing hundresd of people every week.

 

[Missy1961]

It will be very interesting if this is indeed true. I've been saying that about Clemens for years.

And as for forfeiting, Bob is right. We know that Gaylord Perry used a spitball, and he's in the HOF!

 

[JoeThaNo1Stunna]

Well they are doing testing fairly often this season.

BTW, Irvin may have done drugs, but they weren't performance enhancing drugs. In other words he didn't cheat and gain an on field advantage.

Most MLB players have been tested this year and plenty of them have been tested multiple times.

 

[Tanuki]

Yeah, really - steroids are bad for you but so is getting hit upside the head multiple times until you pass out and no one is making Boxing illegal.

The sport itself frequently causes more damage than taking steroids would.

Just look at Mohammed Ali.

But the fact here is that high school (or college) kids can be honest and see their career stop when they graduate, or they can take a few steroids and if they time them right come out in the major leagues with a hundred million dollars in their pocket.

Let's just be honest. Let's have a fair competition.

Let's have the "steroid league" and the "clean league".

Which one do you think would draw the biggest crowds? (From the hypocritical fans who condemn the ones on steroids)

And while steroids may build muscle mass - they don't hit the ball for you or throw it into the strike zone. You have to do that yourself in baseball.

 

[Papa Deuce]

Well they are doing testing fairly often this season.

BTW, Irvin may have done drugs, but they weren't performance enhancing drugs. In other words he didn't cheat and gain an on field advantage.

Most MLB players have been tested this year and plenty of them have been tested multiple times.

They were at least Performance altering drugs. Some people say coke pumps you up. That could be interperated as performance enhancing.

 

[Jimbo]

I hope the media applies the same standard that they did for Palmeiro. It will be interesting to see if Peter Gammons will say that Clemens does not deserve to be in the Hall of this, because he claimed that Palmeiro would not get his vote.

That will indeed be interesting. I think Gammons may have painted himself into a corner, and he'll have to say the same thing about Clemens, much as it will hurt.

I probably said it before, but it taints all of the numbers players have put up in the last dozen years. And baseball is all about the numbers. But how can you compare a juiced up player's numbers to historical numbers? The true stats geek has ways to do that, but I can't.

 

[JoeThaNo1Stunna]

Well that's definitely a stretch and can't be compared to pumping your **** with roids.

The bottom line is Irvin never failed a drug test and was never charged or convicted for any drug related offense.

 

[Missy1961]

Do you have any links to stories about this? Just curious.

 

[Papa Deuce]

Yeah, really - steroids are bad for you but so is getting hit upside the head multiple times until you pass out and no one is making Boxing illegal.

The sport itself frequently causes more damage than taking steroids would.

Just look at Mohammed Ali.

But the fact here is that high school (or college) kids can be honest and see their career stop when they graduate, or they can take a few steroids and if they time them right come out in the major leagues with a hundred million dollars in their pocket.

Let's just be honest. Let's have a fair competition.

Let's have the "steroid league" and the "clean league".

Which one do you think would draw the biggest crowds? (From the hypocritical fans who condemn the ones on steroids)

And while steroids may build muscle mass - they don't hit the ball for you or throw it into the strike zone. You have to do that yourself in baseball.

No. But they can increase your speed, making it easire to get around on a fastball.... They do make you stonger. Who knows how many feet that adds to each fly ball.

Not an intelligent argument there.

 

[lil mermaid]

Does anybody have links to these "rumors?" I can't seem to find anything.

 

[JoeThaNo1Stunna]

The other thing being said on the paid message boards I'm on is that the MLB will do anything possible to ensure that the news on Clemens never gets on there and they will do everything in their power to invalidate the test results.

I can definitely see a coverup in this situation, even with Damon. America is going gaga over the Red Sox and especially him.

It seems more likely that the MLB will announce Livan Hernandez and Miguel Tejada failed before these two are released.

 

[JPN4265]

THe funny thing is I know everyone will forgive these two (as they did Giambi), but they won't forgive Bonds or Palmeiro. It boils down to hypocrisy and racism in my opinion.

Before going to far overboad on your racism comment, would you please provide us with a definition of the word?

 

[wdw4us2]

The whole steroid business makes me sick.

I have been watching a lot of the baseball specials that HBO has been running lately - "Mantle", "61", "When It Was a Game", etc. After watching those films and seeing how talented the players were without steroids, it makes me never want to watch baseball again. Not only did those players not take performance enhancing drugs, most of them did not have the physical conditioning that today's athletes do. Also, some of them didn't take very good care of themselves - they smoked cigarettes, drank, etc.

This is why I have no respect for Barry Bonds' single season HR record, Palmeiro's accomplishments and I won't think much of Clemens or Damons if the rumors turn out to be true.

They're a bunch of selfish, spoiled millionaires who must not really care about the game to do this.

 

[Jimbo]

And while steroids may build muscle mass - they don't hit the ball for you or throw it into the strike zone. You have to do that yourself in baseball.

But obviously you can do it a LOT better and for a LOT longer with certain banned substances in your system.

 

[JoeThaNo1Stunna]

Does anybody have links to these "rumors?" I can't seem to find anything.

No one is going to risk their **** on these rumors at the moment. It is all over reputable national radio networks and premium message boards. I have also heard this for some time from my source at the Sporting News.

I just definitely would not be surprised if the MLB messed around with things and didn't let Clemens results become public.

 

[sodaseller]

I'm suspicious about Schilling