Misleading offers from DVD

[CRobin]

While I've never been one to "bash" DVD on their sales tactics, I am attaching my following e-mail to and response from MS regarding a recent Member Update meeting I attended.

MY INITIAL E-MAIL TO MS:

Last week at BWV, I attended the Member's Update, which was very informative. One member asked about how to combine points from two contracts in order to make a reservation at the 11 month window. The response from the DVC sales person
surprised me, so I wanted to get verification from you. He said.....

"Say you have 150 points at Boardwalk, and 50 at Hilton Head. It is now January, and you want to make reservations for Christmas at Boardwalk. You need 200 points. What you do is make the reservations, borrowing 50 points from your next year's allotment of Boardwalk points. Then, at the 7 month window, you call Member Services and see if there is "availability" at Boardwalk (his words, not mine, and I'm not sure what "availability" means). If there is you can CONVERT your Hilton Head points to your Boardwalk reservation, and your borrowed Boardwalk points REVERT to their prior use year".

This is news to me. I had always assumed that once points were borrowed (or banked) that those transactions were irreversible.

Could you please confirm (or refute) what the sales person related to us at this
meeting?

RESPONSE FROM MS:

Thank you for your e-mail. I would like to apologize for the incorrect information you received. In the situation below, you would not be able to convert and un-borrow Vacation Points. You are correct that borrowing is a final transaction. I will get with the sales guide and clarify this for him.

Thank you.

 

[Dean]

Actually he is absolutely correct. The key word is if there is availability at BW. If there is no availability, you cannot "convert" using the HH points. After you conver, you then would have 50 BW points you could bank to next year. The only issue is that you've borrowed 50 points from next year (HH) and banked 50 BW points. As long as you're not planning a summer HH trip, you're OK. A variation on this works great for making WDW reservations. Lets say you own OKW and want BW. You make OKW at 11 months out then at 7 months out call about BW. You take what you can get for either the entire time or one end of your stay or the other (would only need to change resorts once) and then wait list if you need any more days.

The problem with what you were told is that if there is no availability, you would need to go on the wait list to change it. You are essentially cancelling a portion of one reservation and then reserving again. If the resort is full, your cancellation would go to the wait list and you would need to go on the wait list.

A variation is to make the most days you can with the current points and then to make the additional days at the 7 month window.

 

[Richyams]

Dean is right. The salesman did mis-state, or actually mis-word what you can do, but you can actually do what he said. Technically, you are not "un-borrowing" the points, you are un-using different points and banking them. The only thing he did not say was that those points could not be banked again if they are not used next year.

 

[CRobin]

Dean - I'm not sure I'm still with you on this one.

I don't disagree with your paragraph 3; I've done this a lot with my two contracts.

What I'm trying to clarify is the ability to convert points at 7 months and to have BORROWED points be returned to their original use year. I think you are implying that this is allowed, yet MS is saying no way.

Obviously this puts a whole new spin on add-ons. If one is willing to take the 7 month risk, why not buy an add on at HH or VB, since you can borrow your BWV or OKW points and send them back to their original use year at 7 months if you can convert your points from the add on resort?

 

[CRobin]

Thanks, Rich and Dean, I think I've got it.

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by CRobin
Dean - I'm not sure I'm still with you on this one. What I'm trying to clarify is the ability to convert points at 7 months and to have BORROWED points be returned to their original use year. I think you are implying that this is allowed, yet MS is saying no way.

Obviously this puts a whole new spin on add-ons. If one is willing to take the 7 month risk, why not buy an add on at HH or VB, since you can borrow your BWV or OKW points and send them back to their original use year at 7 months if you can convert your points from the add on resort?

Robin, there are a couple of integral parts to this subject. First, the exact points borrowed cannot be then banked BUT you can substitute them for other BW points that are current year and bank those instead. It's a good technique to conserve your points and extend their life while taking advantage of the 11 month window. Let say you have 2 reservations. You schedule one in Oct for 100 points and that is your total remaining points for the year. You then borrow 100 points from next year and schedule a 100 pt stay in Dec. Later, you need to cancel the Dec reservation. You then subsitute the borrowed points for the Oct and bank the 100 pts you've just freed up. Of course there are some limitations on use year, reservations windows and home resort; but it's a good technique to know about.

The other point pertains to the original questions. If order to substitute other home resort points, you must be within the 7 month window and there must be availability for the type of unit reserved unlike my example above about 2 group of 100 pts for the same home resort. The reason is that you're actually cancelling the first reservation and making a new one, not just substituting the points. If the resort is full, you go to the bottom of the wait list and what you gave up goes to the first person on the list.

There are other ways to work this thing with having one resort and wanting another as well as using points at more than one resort. Tricks like making an OKW reservation at the 11 mo window and changing to BW at the 7 month window if available, if not, you still have a confirmed trip. You can work the home resort windows by banking and borrowing from one contract for this trip and doing the same for the other resort and contract for the next trip. Lets say you want 7 days but only have enough points for S-F at the 11 mo window. You make the 5 days and make a cash for the weekend. At the 7 month window, you make the other 2 days and cancel the cash ressie. If it's not available, you get to save some points and possibly try out another resort.

A similar note in some ways are those that bought resale and have separate contracts. When making reservations like Cruises, CC, etc; the reservation must come from one contract in most instances. This is simply a quirck of how the system works. Lets say you have two 150 points contracts and have banked all of last years points for both giving you 600 points total (300 in each). Assume it will cost you 600 points but you don't have 600 in one contract. DVC will allow you to transfer the points between contracts to complete the transaction even though this is tranferring banked points.

There are all type of variations on these principals but it all comes down to maximizing your points situation.

 

[Lisa F]

Originally posted by Dean
The other point pertains to the original questions. If order to substitute other home resort points, you must be within the 7 month window and there must be availability for the type of unit reserved unlike my example above about 2 group of 100 pts for the same home resort. The reason is that you're actually cancelling the first reservation and making a new one, not just substituting the points. If the resort is full, you go to the bottom of the wait list and what you gave up goes to the first person on the list.

I don't think that this is true. We had some VWL points to burn when we did our add on and when the 7 month window came around, I called MS and asked if I could use the VWL points that I had just banked, therefore freeing up 50 BWV points. This was all part of a larger reservation. I'm pretty sure that all standard view studios were sold out at that point, but MS didn't even hesitate to shuffle my points around and use the banked VWL points for an existing BWV reservation first and free up those BWV points. They didn't say anything about having to cancel the reservation and make a new one, just that it was no problem to reallocate points to my reservation the way I wanted to.

Lisa

 

[mikek]

ya know paople do make mistakes...

I usually try not to brand people on the basis of one mistake.

You pointed it out to MS and they said they would straighten the guy out.

Now if you go back next time and you 'catch' them again maybe its alright to imply they are making misleading offers.

 

[Dean]

Lisa, I'm sure about what I wrote from a rule standpoint. I suspect at least some days during your time were available and that's how they were able to do it. Obviously it wouldn't be fair to others to allow you to cheat the home resort priority that way. Certainly MS can make mistakes, I've seen them make plenty. Fortunately they also try to fix them whenever possible.

 

[CRobin]

but I have to disagree on this one.

I expect DVD sales people to have the RIGHT answer for every question, or to defer ("Gee, I don't know") and to follow up afterwords. This room was filled with people getting a "last chance" pitch for VWL sales. Does this guy's "mistake" show up in a contract?

Rich and Dean have provided valuable input into the "true" way to handle these things, but the bottom line is, if you borrow points, they are borrowed, period. They do not "revert" to their use year, although he clearly stated that they would.

He has been a DVD employee for seven years, and ought to know the territory by now.

To let people think that they can buy contracts and use them as "holding accounts" for resorts on different contracts is, indeed, misleading.

 

[Dean]

I seriously suspect that he was actually stating what I was and fron that angle, he is correct as quoted.