Minor Rant on Guests~ ~

[maburke]

You have to laugh when people tell you "I can't afford that" How many times do friends/family/acquaintances use this term when they really mean "I don't want to spend my money on that"? Sure, there are definitely some people out there who just don't have the money OR the credit (not that I advocate living on credit cards) to buy something they really, really, really want, but in this country, that seems to be the extreme minority. What he is really (maybe) telling you that to him, he could take or leave this trip and the money he has offered is all that he's willing to spend on it. And there is nothing wrong with that - it's just the excuses and crys of poverty that are unjustified.

As LiferBabe suggests - if you really want this guy on the trip, it'll be up to you (and/or the rest of the posse) to make it happen - it's doubtful he will "come up" with the rest of the money (especially if he's used this tactic before with success), but don't get me wrong though; I don't think towing the line this time will "teach him a lesson". He's probably just as content not to go. Sorry for my rant - I know I don't know this friend of yours personally - I just have experience with a "freeloader" of my own At any rate, good luck and enjoy your trip!

Terri

I agree with a lot of PP, but particularly this. I have a family member that is like your friend, not so much with money, but with commitment. One of us invests a lot of time and energy in an event or family gathering, and he can just take it or leave it. We keep hearing "I'll try to be there," when he really means "I'll be there if absolutely nothing else strikes me as interesting that night." And you can cajole and nag and pay for him, and it won't change that he's just not as committed as you. As an obsessive planner, I know how disappointing that is, but you're better off accepting it and having fun with the others. And others can pay for him if you or they want to, but, as in the past, you probably won't be paid back. He's just not committed enough to put his own money into it, whether or not he has the money.

You have until 48 hours before arrival to cancel the DDP, and I wouldn't take him off any of your ADP's, to maximize the time that he can change his mind (and so you don't lose them!), but try not to be disappointed if he doesn't. It's just who he is.

 

[flechette]

Wow - I think maybe I hit a nerve

Since I'm a bit less irate now - free loader is too harsh a description, tho mooch would still be accurate. Part of his financial issues is that he, like his mom, adopts strays of all varieties including humans. He is one of the good natured people that really would give you his shirt off his back or his last dollar for a cab ride. He really is a great person to be around, just don't lend him money.

That said - somewhere in his mind, a loan becomes a gift at somepoint so doesn't need to be paid back. And even this attitude has undergone quite a change over the past year. So maybe I had unreasonable expectations, but there was reason for hope

OTOH I'll agree - he's acting like a baby - or at least snarky. I might be over sensitive right now, but I felt like his last email was blaming me for the budget # Hubby is out of town right now so I emailed to ask him his opinion cause I admittedly have a thin skin in this case, haven't heard back yet.

<cough> kinda funny cause one reason the numbers are what they are is we added in a night to do SeaWorld at his request. Hotel room ($40 rm/ $20 each) + Seaworld ticket ($65 w/ SW discount) + lunch ($15?) = $100 each per person.

The magic number for cancelling/adding DDP is 48 hours so I'm simply going to wait a bit and see how things fall out. It looks like he won't make it and we will all miss him. But I laid out some options, told him I thought he was being unfair, and reiterated that we want him along. Ball is in his court and everyone elses'.

I am frequently the Queen of Guilt but not this time. I know I tried as hard as I could to make this work and it didn't (or looks like it didn't) Life goes on and there will be other trips... and when there are I'll direct him to AAA or another TA and make ADR that include him.

Thanks again for listening!

 

[jfinke]

Here is what I usually do with my family. We decide a date that will be good for most people. Then I outline what everyone's options are. Then they are responsible for everything. If they don't want to go or do certain things, no skin off my nose.

In fact, I like WDW as a group destination because there is so much to do and I don't have to babysit people. We usually just meet up for a meal here and there. With everyone having cell phones it is usually pretty easy.

 

[toniosmom]

To the original OP -- It appears that you knew going in that your friend is not exactly the most responsible person you know. As hard as you try to get him to contribute, it appears to be not part of who he is. You can either accept him that way or choose not to include him in your plans.

I have a very good friend who is similar. I wouldn't necessarily call him a mooch, but he is not exactly the most dependable. Like your friend, he is a lot of fun and everyone enjoys his presence. I had invited him last spring to join me and my son but about 30 days prior, he cancelled. Something about work. I wonder if his excuse was really true -- but regardless, I was left to travel alone with my DS4, which left me a nervous wreck as he is ADHD. It turned out to be a blessing in disguise because it gave me the opportunity to realize that I can travel alone with my son and we can have a wonderful trip.

The next time I invite this friend, it will be because I have extra room and if he cancels, it won't be a big deal. I will certainly not book a larger room to accomodate his presence. He will also pay me up front for the airfare, although this past time he did reimburse me for the non-refundable airfare, so I didn't lose any money. What I did lose was his companionship on the trip and my trust that he won't do this to me again.

But, he is who he is and I accept him that way.

I hope you are able to enjoy your vacation. As aggravating as it is that he is doing this to you, if he does show up, try not to resent his presence as he will likely be mooching off all of you throughout the trip. It will just ruin your own good time.

Have a great time!!!

 

[flechette]

To the original OP -- It appears that you knew going in that your friend is not exactly the most responsible person you know. As hard as you try to get him to contribute, it appears to be not part of who he is. You can either accept him that way or choose not to include him in your plans.

What about when he includes himself in the plans? He was in the trip, then dropped out because of his engagment. When that broke up, he simply announced he was back in the trip w/out asking. It's a good thing we hadn't invited anyone else lol~ I asked everyone privately if that was okay and there was a general shrug and yep we're good and that is sooo like him...

I have a very good friend who is similar. I wouldn't necessarily call him a mooch, but he is not exactly the most dependable. Like your friend, he is a lot of fun and everyone enjoys his presence. I had invited him last spring to join me and my son but about 30 days prior, he cancelled. Something about work. I wonder if his excuse was really true -- but regardless, I was left to travel alone with my DS4, which left me a nervous wreck as he is ADHD. It turned out to be a blessing in disguise because it gave me the opportunity to realize that I can travel alone with my son and we can have a wonderful trip.

The next time I invite this friend, it will be because I have extra room and if he cancels, it won't be a big deal. I will certainly not book a larger room to accomodate his presence. He will also pay me up front for the airfare, although this past time he did reimburse me for the non-refundable airfare, so I didn't lose any money. What I did lose was his companionship on the trip and my trust that he won't do this to me again.

But, he is who he is and I accept him that way.

I hope you are able to enjoy your vacation. As aggravating as it is that he is doing this to you, if he does show up, try not to resent his presence as he will likely be mooching off all of you throughout the trip. It will just ruin your own good time.

Have a great time!!!

Nah - won't resent him, he is alot of fun. But given everyone elses finances (there was a reason we all started saving up 2 years out and man you should have seen the happy dances about the military discount on park tickets~) I can't see us paying his way - to be fair he hasn't asked anyone too either, he just dropped out entirely saying he doesn't have the $$ (in a fairly snippy tone of voice)

We've got an OKW Grand Villa so everyone has room to retire too and seperate bathrooms. I've been dying to stay in one since before we bought in so I'm excited no matter what

I know he wanted to do this trip, and maybe disappointment is making him well... less than magical right now.

I hope I do accept him for what he is - as I hope he accepts me for what I am... but that doesn't mean we can't complain about each other

 

[BLTtinkerbell]

I am always amazed that "guests" can be so rude. I have posted this before but in case you never read it, here it is again....Before I became a DVC member (had been thinking about it for a long time), my very nice sister invited my family to join hers at WDW on her points. We decided on a fair price I would pay her for my family's room & once she booked the rooms, I sent her a check for agreed amount. It was undertood that I could NOT get my money back because she would lose her points. My payment to her was a lot less money than if I booked on my own, so I gladly agreed. We started thinking of what we wanted to do on the trip, MVMCP, restaurants......We agreed we didn't have to do everything together. If one family wanted to do something & the other didn't that was fine, just say so right away. We agreed to go to MVMCP & I once again sent her a check right after she booked the tickets & understood I couldn't get my money back. We booked our own airfare & were on the same flight going down & different coming home because of personal schedules. We did most things together & did a few things on our own. It was a great vacation and we will do it again someday. Now that I own DVC too, we can book our own villas or pool points together for a grand villa. We both understand how DVC works & what the points are worth. I think if your "guests" don't understand it & if you don't get non-refundable payment upfront, then hurt feelings can happen. Good luck to all with this type of situation, I hope it works out for all of you. Live and learn.

 

[photobob]

Ok....maybe it's just me, but what kind of 36 year old doesn't have $500 to his name??

You'd be surprised! I now several 30-somethings that still live like they are just out of or still in college.

 

[corpcomp]

<bangs head against wall>

One friend pulled out of the trip early 2008 because he got engaged, then rejoined when they broke up earlier this year (huge sigh of relief from the all of us). He's had multiple opportunities to rejoin the savings account and has missed every single promise to pay up.

He was supposed to pay up next week and I got an email from him saying he had some $$ but not all of it + what did this money cover?

I responded back that he needed to re-examine his budget cause matching the savings account still didn't cover all the costs-

His response - just count me out.

Now some people are irate with me - but OTOH I don't see anyone else offering to cover his costs. This guy is a dear friend - he's witty, articulate, fun and just generally a great guy to be around. He is also a free-loader and there isn't a single one of us he hasn't burned money-wise hence the original reason for the savings fund.

<cough> and I have no doubt there are bets going on about how soon I'll fold... can't blame them, I'm wondering what can be worked out myself.

you need to redefine what you think a friend is - he burned all of you for money -he obviously sees you all as suckers - I suspect he is not the one that broke off the engagement. Probably suckered his fiance for money to date someone else. Go to Disney on your own and enjoy it.

 

[toniosmom]

Before I became a DVC member (had been thinking about it for a long time), my very nice sister invited my family to join hers at WDW on her points.

You are lucky. My sister has a way of ruining the vacation for everyone. As one other poster said regarding his/her own sister -- she is a "trip killer". Needless to say, I will NEVER invite her.

 

[flechette]

you need to redefine what you think a friend is - he burned all of you for money -he obviously sees you all as suckers - I suspect he is not the one that broke off the engagement. Probably suckered his fiance for money to date someone else. Go to Disney on your own and enjoy it.

I disgree vehemently with this. It is in no way fair to my friend, who I admit has his faults and I complained about them on a public forum - so yeah - fair game to some extent.

I have reiterated several reasons while we are still friends, and him viewing us as suckers isn't one of them. If he did, he'd say he has the money then show up w/ none and expect us to cover the tab. Instead he's reversing his position that he can afford it and I'm irritated that he's doing so at this late a date, and is acting clueless about the costs after several detailed filled emails, and had multiple opportunities to put money away for just this reason. But he is doing it in advance, being a bit surly about it for sure, so we have time to work stuff out.... tho admittedly I did pin him on the issue

His fiance (who quit work to keep house when she latched onto our friend) left him to go back to her supposedly abusive husband whom she told us she had divorced but hadn't actually. And as I got that from her (both the abuse and the divorce) not him, I'd say he was the one that got burned in that relationship.

<sigh>

Anyone else think it's ironic that I feel obligated to defend my friend while I'm annoyed with him?

Still I do appreciate another point of view, tho in this case I know it's unfounded. He's had our backs too many times, been there when we've had trouble, he doesn't simply take, take, take. He's just not so good on the whole repay back thing tho I have lent him $20 here and there since his breakup and been repaid in a week. So there is room to hope - just not w/ large amounts of money

We will definitely enjoy Disney, even missing one member of our group. Thing is - you never know whats going to happen in the future- accidents, illness, disagreements, and even death. We don't know when everyone will be free for this sort of thing again, and that's whats making this bittersweet.

But I'm sure I'll recover once I'm at OWK again

 

[Chuck S]

I disgree vehemently with this. It is in no way fair to my friend, who I admit has his faults and I complained about them on a public forum - so yeah - fair game to some extent.

I have reiterated several reasons while we are still friends, and him viewing us as suckers isn't one of them. If he did, he'd say he has the money then show up w/ none and expect us to cover the tab. Instead he's reversing his position that he can afford it and I'm irritated that he's doing so at this late a date, and is acting clueless about the costs after several detailed filled emails, and had multiple opportunities to put money away for just this reason. But he is doing it in advance, being a bit surly about it for sure, so we have time to work stuff out.... tho admittedly I did pin him on the issue

His fiance (who quit work to keep house when she latched onto our friend) left him to go back to her supposedly abusive husband whom she told us she had divorced but hadn't actually. And as I got that from her (both the abuse and the divorce) not him, I'd say he was the one that got burned in that relationship.

<sigh>

Anyone else think it's ironic that I feel obligated to defend my friend while I'm annoyed with him?

Still I do appreciate another point of view, tho in this case I know it's unfounded. He's had our backs too many times, been there when we've had trouble, he doesn't simply take, take, take. He's just not so good on the whole repay back thing tho I have lent him $20 here and there since his breakup and been repaid in a week. So there is room to hope - just not w/ large amounts of money

We will definitely enjoy Disney, even missing one member of our group. Thing is - you never know whats going to happen in the future- accidents, illness, disagreements, and even death. We don't know when everyone will be free for this sort of thing again, and that's whats making this bittersweet.

But I'm sure I'll recover once I'm at OWK again

It sounds like you really want him along on this trip. I've done that on occasion for someone I knew really could not afford it. If that is the case, you may need to just do that. But, for those I know can afford it, it is room only, and the rest they pay.

You seem so undecided, good luck with whatever happens. The main thing is to feel that you have done the right thing. And no one here can really tell you what the right thing is for you. Take all the suggestions, and then decide what is best for you.

 

[dianeschlicht]

Why did you determine the group should do DDP? Did the whole group decide that, or did you? We find we can always get more for much less and eat exactly what we want at the signatures versus doing the DDP. It's expensive, and you don't always get to choose what you really want. I'm betting the cost of the DDP might have been a tipping point for him.

 

[flechette]

Why did you determine the group should do DDP? Did the whole group decide that, or did you? We find we can always get more for much less and eat exactly what we want at the signatures versus doing the DDP. It's expensive, and you don't always get to choose what you really want. I'm betting the cost of the DDP might have been a tipping point for him.

Believe me that was a group decision, everyone said they liked the pre-paid option. Our TiW card is still good for this upcoming trip but there was a universal "Dining Plan" chorus when we offered to use it. <cough> inpart cause we know and love our friend whose actions started this thread.



To be fair; Hubby and I tried the TiW card last trip and frankly spent more that way then we would have on the DDP, by about $80. We do tend to order the most expensive thing on the menu and we usually do a dessert or 2 so DDP has generally worked pretty well for us. We rarely order wine or alcohol so no savings there. And we (both couple) like counter service for lunch w/ TiW not helping much there~

here's my budget breakdown from an email earlier this year:
--------------------------

Okay the numbers as best I can think of:

Costs per Household: (4 households going)

Gas: $75.00 per household ($150 estimate per car)
Offsite Room $48.00 per room 1 night
SeaWorld parking $10 per car/ $5 per household

Household costs (rounded up)
$130 for the couples ($75 + $48 + $5)
$105 each per single male. (X&Y each $75 + $24 + $5.)


Differences caused by
1) X & Y get to split the room cost
2) Each household covers $75 in gas where X & Y are separate households.

Per Person Costs for the following

SeaWorld ticket $65 (with SouthWest discount – no price increase yet)
Lunch @ SeaWorld $15 ? complete guess
WDW tickets $125 (no change in the offer despite Disney’s price increase)
Dining Plan $200 (we added a night)
Gratuities $30 (still a guess)

Per person costs above = $435


Household + Per Person Costs:

$540 for X & Y each (105+435)
$1000 for L&M (130+435+435)
$755 for A&B due to military ticket discounts (1000-130-125).


Some costs that aren’t included in: meals on the way down and back, snacks or water at SeaWorld, souvenirs, any appetizers and specialty drinks at WDW, groceries/bottled water… I’m sure I’m missing more, any other suggestions? L&M already have a good idea of the extra costs. X & Y I’d suggest planning for at least $150 maybe closer to $200 for unknown expenses, to be on the safe side

------
Given our friend is a foodie, + F&W festival - he'd easily spend $200+ on meals at Disney. and Given the info above, he can't claim the numbers are a surprise.

In previous emails I had estimated costs at $500 a person, so I was pretty close.


Group Update: we all really want him to go, so we're trying to find out exactly what he can afford and we'll go from there, but we're not going to lay out our own $$. And after several snippy emails on both our parts, he may not want to come at all at this point~


<cough> however based on Dianes comment I am going to go run some numbers - just in case.....

 

[Deb & Bill]

What are you going to do to make sure one of the friends doesn't overuse dining credits? Either on purpose or inadvertently?

 

[flechette]

weird - I composed and posted ( I thought) a reply yesterday morning- I must have hit the wrong button~


Anyways, Deb, we're still working that out. The group decision was to do all meals together so hopefully there is limited room for mess ups like that. We planning on hitting the Food & Wine Festival the first day so that should take car of a bunch of snacks.

At this point, I can see us breaking up into groups of 3 - which would meean at least 1 experienced DDP person in a group to watch over things. And as it stands right now, everyone wants to stick together alot. I always have the option of not handing over a room key if the group thinks it's justified.

We haven't heard back from our friend at all, so we're not sure what his status is yet, he does tend to be out of touch Sat - Mon so hopefully by today he'll have cooled down some and we can all go back to being reasonable adults (myself included)
---

Diane - I ran the numbers and pre-tax, and no snacks TiW only comes out about $15 cheaper than the DDP. Adding in snacks and the tax it's pretty much a wipe.

Back to tending sick kitty cat, she's 17 and our vet fears her kidneys are starting to fail . She doesn't want to eat or drink so I'm having to get inventive on food. I really want this week to be over and my husband home

 

[crisi]

We always try very hard not to spend other people's money. I've very guilty of "we can't afford that" to mean "I don't want to spend my money doing that." And you know what, that means I can't afford it - I might have $50,000 sitting in my savings account, but if I spend $2,000 going off to Mexico with friends, I am $2,000 in the hole on my emergency fund, the money I'm going to use to buy a new car and the money I'm going to use to take my kids to the East Coast. With that in mind, our invitations are usually as low keyed as they can get and involve as little committment from the other parties as possible. I've done my share of supplimenting to get the person I wanted to come along to come - from paying nearly everything (my mother in law) - to giving my own parents their park tickets as a Christmas gift and forgiving the dining bill shoved under the door for my parents and sister.