Minnie Mouse now captain of all DCL ships

[AquaDame]

Fair enough.

Frankly, after all these years of Minnie being in “second-banana” status as First Mate, I would be 100% OK with Mickey in his tux while she was in her captain’s formalwear.

Agreed. I think having Minnie choose between slacks and pants depending works. Who wants to fuss with a billowing skirt on deck as a captain?

 

[PrincessArlena'sDad]

Agreed. I think having Minnie choose between slacks and pants depending works. Who wants to fuss with a billowing skirt on deck as a captain?

Marilyn Monroe would

 

[mevelandry]

Didn't they use to have both Mickey and Minnie come out? If this change means losing a character, I'm against it.

Thinking about this a little more.... I wonder if the target audience for Minnie meets - namely pre-school girls - care that she is now the captain, if they don't like her outfit as much. I'm not generalizing here... I'm talking about my own DD; she would much rather Minnie be wearing a nice dress for their picture together.

So, if my DD's opinion turns out to be prevalent, and they have less Minnie photo sales as a result, it'll be amazing how fast Minnie quits her new job!

I think characters do not just attract only pre-school girls but also school girls, teenagers, etc. It's a wonderful "role model" for kids, whether or not they realize the impact of Minnie being captain right now. I'm tempted to say it's also a wonderful role model for boys as well when it comes to gender equality.

I'd be shocked to see them remove that. Even if the profits turned out to be less interesting, I think they'll find something else to change.

 

[squirk]

I'm tempted to say it's also a wonderful role model for boys as well when it comes to gender equality.

I’m not tempted. I’ll come out and say it directly and without reservation:

I think it’s a wonderful example for boys. Girls - like your mother, your sister, your grandma, your aunt, etc. - can be just as capable and qualified to captain a ship as any guy.

 

[PrincessArlena'sDad]

I think characters do not just attract only pre-school girls but also school girls, teenagers, etc. It's a wonderful "role model" for kids, whether or not they realize the impact of Minnie being captain right now. I'm tempted to say it's also a wonderful role model for boys as well when it comes to gender equality.

I'd be shocked to see them remove that. Even if the profits turned out to be less interesting, I think they'll find something else to change.

I don't disagree with your ideas here... but I think the actual impact on young kids will be negligible. I think to most kids, they are just excited to meet Mickey and Minnie, and, maybe they care what outfit they wear, in terms of how much they like how it looks, and not think about what it represents.

To me, this sounds like a PR move to appeal to adults.

 

[mevelandry]

I don't disagree with your ideas here... but I think the actual impact on young kids will be negligible. I think to most kids, they are just excited to meet Mickey and Minnie, and, maybe they care what outfit they wear, in terms of how much they like how it looks, and not think about what it represents.

To me, this sounds like a PR move to appeal to adults.

I'll speak for myself but when I was young, I was very impressed to realize that women could also work in mines --I did not know it was a possibility until I met one!-- (where I came from, most of the dads were working at the local mines). So, if a young girl sees that Minnie is a captain, she'll open her mind --whether she realizes it or not-- to the possibility of being a captain too if she wants. It may be subtle, but it won't be lost.

I believe kids pick up on more things than we think they do.

 

[squirk]

I don't disagree with your ideas here... but I think the actual impact on young kids will be negligible. I think to most kids, they are just excited to meet Mickey and Minnie, and, maybe they care what outfit they wear, in terms of how much they like how it looks, and not think about what it represents.

To me, this sounds like a PR move to appeal to adults.

Ask any child psychologist - kids notice more than we tend to think.

Will this move be lost upon infants and toddlers? Yeah, maybe. But as for any kids older than three - you don’t think they will pick up (even if only subconsciously) that Minnie is on equal footing with Mickey, and can be just as qualified to be Captain as he is?

 

[squirk]

I believe kids pick up on more things than we think they do.

Jinx.

 

[mike314]

So what does Mickey do now? is it a co captain thing now or Mickey is now promoted to Admiral?

 

[mevelandry]

So what does Mickey do now? is it a co captain thing now or Mickey is now promoted to Admiral?

He's retired and living the cruising life!

 

[PrincessArlena'sDad]

I'll speak for myself but when I was young, I was very impressed to realize that women could also work in mines --I did not know it was a possibility until I met one!-- (where I came from, most of the dads were working at the local mines). So, if a young girl sees that Minnie is a captain, she'll open her mind --whether she realizes it or not-- to the possibility of being a captain too if she wants. It may be subtle, but it won't be lost.

I believe kids pick up on more things than we think they do.

Ask any child psychologist - kids notice more than we tend to think.

Will this move be lost upon infants and toddlers? Yeah, maybe. But as for any kids older than three - you don’t think they will pick up (even if only subconsciously) that Minnie is on equal footing with Mickey, and can be just as qualified to be Captain as he is?

I took your suggestion, and did talk to a child psychiatrist that I happen to know. This was the crux of the conversation:

In order for the child to get the meaning you suggest, the following must all apply:

1. The child would have to get the impression that Mickey/Minnie have the position of "Captain" and not just dressing up for the occasion, like they do elsewhere (safari outfit in AK, sorcerer's apprentice in Fantasmic!, formal wear on Main St, Halloween costumes, etc.). I would say almost all would think they are dressing up for being on the ship.

2. The child would have to have the pre-conceived notion that only men could be captains. Unless someone is going around telling the child that only men could be captains, chances are they don't know enough captains to get this impression (unlike the miner example above, where all miners you knew were men, until you finally met a woman miner). I just realized the first Captains my kids met was the woman pediatrician they first had (we're a military family).

3. They would have to get meaning from a fictional character being given a symbolic position. Again, unlikely.

While you are correct that kids to pick up on a lot more than adults often think, symbolic gestures are something young kids are very UNLIKELY to pick up on. Now, if kids were to meet the real Captain of the ship, and find out the real Captain was a "she," maybe that would be meaningful.

So what does Mickey do now? is it a co captain thing now or Mickey is now promoted to Admiral?

After being fired and replaced as Captain, he's speaking to an attorney about suing for sex discrimination.

 

[squirk]

I took your suggestion, and did talk to a child psychiatrist that I happen to know. This was the crux of the conversation:

In order for the child to get the meaning you suggest, the following must all apply:

1. The child would have to get the impression that Mickey/Minnie have the position of "Captain" and not just dressing up for the occasion, like they do elsewhere (safari outfit in AK, sorcerer's apprentice in Fantasmic!, formal wear on Main St, Halloween costumes, etc.). I would say almost all would think they are dressing up for being on the ship.

2. The child would have to have the pre-conceived notion that only men could be captains. Unless someone is going around telling the child that only men could be captains, chances are they don't know enough captains to get this impression (unlike the miner example above, where all miners you knew were men, until you finally met a woman miner). I just realized the first Captains my kids met was the woman pediatrician they first had (we're a military family).

3. They would have to get meaning from a fictional character being given a symbolic position. Again, unlikely.

While you are correct that kids to pick up on a lot more than adults often think, symbolic gestures are something young kids are very UNLIKELY to pick up on. Now, if kids were to meet the real Captain of the ship, and find out the real Captain was a "she," maybe that would be meaningful.

1.) We may just agree to disagree on this, but my expectation has always been that a 3-6 year old doesn't see Mickey as "playing pretend," and rather that he is actually in charge of the ship.

2.) Even if no one is going around telling the kid "only men can be captains," do you agree that there is still messaging (intentional, unintentional, or just "hold-over" thinking) throughout our culture that there are "men" jobs and "women" jobs, and that the captain of a ship - in movies, cartoons, TV shows, books - is almost always depicted as being a man?

3.) Again, I don't know if I agree that kids 3-6 see this Captain Mickey as a "symbolic" or "figurehead" position. If your child psychologist connection says otherwise, I am all ears.

To your point - if Disney had a female captain, I would love it if my kids had a chance to meet her. I agree that it would be more meaningful - at any age - vs. Captain Mickey/Minnie.

 

[mevelandry]

But it depends on the kids's experience. If the kids have sailed with Disney many times, noticed Captain Mickey every time, it's possible that they associate Captain = Mickey (+ Mickey being male). In that case, the impact would be more important.

And again. A 4 year old won't have the same perception as a 12 year old.

 

[PrincessArlena'sDad]

1.) We may just agree to disagree on this, but my expectation has always been that a 3-6 year old doesn't see Mickey as "playing pretend," and rather that he is actually in charge of the ship.

2.) Even if no one is going around telling the kid "only men can be captains," do you agree that there is still messaging (intentional, unintentional, or just "hold-over" thinking) throughout our culture that there are "men" jobs and "women" jobs, and that the captain of a ship - in movies, cartoons, TV shows, books - is almost always depicted as being a man?

3.) Again, I don't know if I agree that kids 3-6 see this Captain Mickey as a "symbolic" or "figurehead" position. If your child psychologist connection says otherwise, I am all ears.

To your point - if Disney had a female captain, I would love it if my kids had a chance to meet her. I agree that it would be more meaningful - at any age - vs. Captain Mickey/Minnie.

1. I haven't been on DCL yet, and neither has my friend, so I don't know how Mickey has been presented on the ship. I just know my little ones said they wanted pictures of Mickey in his "sailor uniform" as seen in the commercials. I don't have the impression that they think he's running the ship, but maybe on board it's presented differently.

2. In general, yes. About captain specifically, no. I just don't see it. For kicks, I just asked my kids to name a famous captain (outside of earshot of each other). All 3 said, "Captain Marvel." Very unscientific, and probably not valid a few months ago, or a few months from now.

3. I was essentially referring to Piaget's stages of development. Young kids don't get, or think, in terms of symbolism or abstract thought. If they see Mickey/Minnie as the actual captain running the ship, that's one thing. But, if they see them as dressing up for the occasion, then any symbolic meaning to the change will be lost on them. That would just be too abstract for young kids. They would just see Minnie deciding to play dress up now too, without reading anything into it.

 

[squirk]

1. I haven't been on DCL yet, and neither has my friend, so I don't know how Mickey has been presented on the ship. I just know my little ones said they wanted pictures of Mickey in his "sailor uniform" as seen in the commercials. I don't have the impression that they think he's running the ship, but maybe on board it's presented differently.

2. In general, yes. About captain specifically, no. I just don't see it. For kicks, I just asked my kids to name a famous captain (outside of earshot of each other). All 3 said, "Captain Marvel." Very unscientific, and probably not valid a few months ago, or a few months from now.

3. I was essentially referring to Piaget's stages of development. Young kids don't get, or think, in terms of symbolism or abstract thought. If they see Mickey/Minnie as the actual captain running the ship, that's one thing. But, if they see them as dressing up for the occasion, then any symbolic meaning to the change will be lost on them. That would just be too abstract for young kids. They would just see Minnie deciding to play dress up now too, without reading anything into it.

Re: #1 & #3. I hear what you are saying, and a tip of the cap for pulling out Piaget, but I've been on five DCL cruises and my impression has always been that, in the eyes of a little kid, Mickey is in charge.

Maybe others will back me up then when I say that Mickey is not presented as "playing dress-up" or "in costume" when he's in his uniform. It's supposed to be "his" real uniform.

As for #2 - yeah, as you said, that "Captain Marvel" is a poor example, especially right now. I mean, the movie is a great step in the right direction, but I don't think it overcomes the general almost-unconscious cultural mindset that a "ship captain" is a man's job.

 

[pixiedustedme]

I don't care for this. The captain outfit doesn't gel with her personality or style. Minnie is whimsical, feminine, romantic and sweet: that outfit complements none of those qualities. I hope she doesn't wear it too often. Love seeing her dressed up in different cute dresses during the cruise, and would hate for this to detract from that.

 

[Lisa F]

Representation matters.

ask any little girl with brown hair who grew up in the 70's how exciting it was to find a doll that also had brown hair.. it was very rare and very exciting to see a doll that looks like you.

ask any non-white little girl how it feels to find a doll that looks like her. It is less rare now than it used to be, as it should be, but it matters.

all due respect to the secondhand opinion of one psychologist who is a friend of a poster, kids do notice when there is something like them that they can relate to especially if it was rather rare. Minnie has always played second fiddle to Mickey so putting her on equal footing is a good thing all around, issue of there being more than one captain aside (there was more than one captain before anyway, the real captain and the mouse captain). The plan is to have her run STEM activities and also appear with real life female crew members. I think it's a great change and I have a son.

As far as her outfit goes, Mickey isn't always Captain Mickey so I expect Minnie won't always be Captain Minnie either - probably just at appropriate times, just like Mickey is. We'll see about formal nights, Minnie may not choose to appear in uniform at that time. The uniform she has appeared in is NOT the formal uniform, it is a standard captain uniform. Captain Mickey has his standard with the blue coat and the formal with the white coat. Honestly I don't think it has to be consistent with the real world. It is NOT the military, it's a civilian operation and I have always seen Captain Mickey as kind of the figurehead and not the actual captain anyway. Minnie may very well decide to appear in formalwear at formal night and in her Captain uniform when performing symbolic Captain duties, like welcoming people on board or running the STEM program or making appearances with female crew members as outlined in the blog post about it.

I would be fine with that.

 

[TestingH2O]

I don't care for this. The captain outfit doesn't gel with her personality or style. Minnie is whimsical, feminine, romantic and sweet: that outfit complements none of those qualities. I hope she doesn't wear it too often. Love seeing her dressed up in different cute dresses during the cruise, and would hate for this to detract from that.

I guess I don't agree that the qualities you list are antithetical to professional competence. I also wonder how a bow makes such a difference to a perceived personality.

 

[pixiedustedme]

I guess I don't agree that the qualities you list are antithetical to professional competence. I also wonder how a bow makes such a difference to a perceived personality.

The qualities I listed are antithetical to that outfit. If she is going to be captain, they need to put her in a cuter outfit at least, or it won't fit the theming for Minnie. As others have commented, she looks almost like Mickey as it is. She shouldn't lose her style and femininity just because she's captain.

 

[Dug720]

Captain Kate McCue - in uniform. Still female.

And with some “whimsy”...