Minimum wage, food costs & tipping guidelines in other countries

[Tiger926]

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[disneyfan2kids]

Frankly - Because it is the exact same wage structure in every restaurant in America...so why should WDW be any different?

 

[Uncleromulus]

And that structure probably isn't about to change. It's been around for quite awhile. Basically, it allows you the patron to pay a good bit of the server wage and allows the restaurants to keep menu prices a lot lower than they might be otherwise. Minimum wage alone would probably not raise menu prices a bunch--but minimum wage would hardly keep any good servers working unless large tips were still part of the game.
Many servers do quite well--if they are good, efficient, pleasant and willing to hustle--- and willing to put up with what the "dining public" throws at them each and every meal.
I wouldn't last one night as a server----

 

[eliza61]

I'm with you Uncleromulus, I worked with the good ole' John P. Public during the Christmas season in NYC one year while I was in college. It is by the grace of god, I didn't leap over a table and choke the life out of some one.

Anyway, OP. I do wish Disney would pay a liveable salary to there cm's especially since I believe it would help with the high turnover issues they have and would be an incentive to keep the good ones. Disney is not very different than many other tourist places (go to a baseball stadium and order a beer) so not sure what's a good way to reverse the trend.

 

[Tiger926]

Sorry I couldn't come back to thread, as baby needed me.

I didn't realize that the minimum wage was that low in most states - there is no possible way then that someone working at McDonald's who doesn't get tips can even survive. Am I missing something? Is this only the minimum wage for servers who get tips?

I guess for us as Canadians it irritates us to pay the prices we pay for food in some places in the U.S., especially Disney (we pay it though because we love Disney and tip well as servers work hard), because the wages are so low, plus, we know how much the food actually costs. In my country, restaurant meals are pretty fairly priced, yet wages are high, food costs are very high (my dad uses cheese that costs over $20.00/pound) and taxes are even higher. We know that most restaurants don't make huge profits over here, whereas restaurants in the U.S., especially themed restaurants such as Disney, Rainforest, etc., must make out like bandits since wages are so low. It's kind of bothersome that I as a patron am expected to supplement wages, when food supplies are less in your country. I highly doubt Disney uses cheese that costs $20.00/pound in any of their dishes! I guess this is the corporate way - if customers are willing to pay for something, why should we? Disney just announced record profits once again, so perhaps that is my answer?

It's very interesting to my family and I to discuss these types of things - I love reading all of these discussions here on the DIS, especially the ones in which people post from other countries in which there is no such thing as tips or service charges, and food costs are just as high or higher than my country. It's very interesting to me to see just how different countries around the world handle minimum wages, tips, etc.

Very interesting, Tiger

 

[Sleepy]

I highly doubt Disney uses cheese that costs $20.00/pound in any of their dishes!

Don't know what the going rate is for Buffalo Mozzarella in America, but it isn't exactly cheap right here where it is made. I know there are several places in WDW that serves it in their dishes. I also know last year I was told the Italian restaurant in Epcot got it straight from Naples, so I can only imagine the going price to have it sent over.

Personally, when it comes to tips and meal costs, I would rather pay the higher meal cost vs the tip expectations. I have always thought a PERCENTAGE tip was strange. I mean, take a table that has hamburgers and compare it to a table with steaks. Sorry, but the higher priced steaks won't make a waitress work any harder than the table that has burgers. Everyone will need condiments and drink refills. Neither table will require more work, yet the table with the steaks will give a higher tip just because the food costs more???? Tips should be paid out based on WORK DONE, not food cost.

 

[sjaakie]

I just would like to tell you our own experience while visiting a restaurant

We had dinner at Down Town Disney in the Portobello Yacht Club.
We asked for the bill and paid with our CC. We put 20 dollars on the plate for the waiter as we thought was enough.
The people seated at the neighbour table also where paying and they got really upset about the bill.

The tip was already on the bill and the guests did not except this. There was no way the waiter was able to convince them that this was “normal”.
The manager was called and again they refused to pay the bill. It took a while and a lot of angry words until the manager made a new bill for them.

I overheard them saying that it was not the bad service of the waiter they just did not except the automatically charging of the tip.

In the mean while other guest who had just been seated asked what the problem was and after they got explained what en how they just left.

The party that was complaining where real native Americans and no dumb ore unknowing foreigners. After they paid the bill they left a tip of one dollar on the table.

It was a horrible situation fore everyone. We just wanted to leave ore disappear into the carpet.

It was after we where back in our room we realised that we paid the tip twice

 

[Tiger926]

Don't know what the going rate is for Buffalo Mozzarella in America, but it isn't exactly cheap right here where it is made. I know there are several places in WDW that serves it in their dishes. I also know last year I was told the Italian restaurant in Epcot got it straight from Naples, so I can only imagine the going price to have it sent over.

Personally, when it comes to tips and meal costs, I would rather pay the higher meal cost vs the tip expectations. I have always thought a PERCENTAGE tip was strange. I mean, take a table that has hamburgers and compare it to a table with steaks. Sorry, but the higher priced steaks won't make a waitress work any harder than the table that has burgers. Everyone will need condiments and drink refills. Neither table will require more work, yet the table with the steaks will give a higher tip just because the food costs more???? Tips should be paid out based on WORK DONE, not food cost.

Maybe they use more expensive ingredients in some of their restaurants, but I doubt it. We thought Alfredo's in Epcot was horrible, if this is what you are speaking of, so hopefully if the new restaurant is using authentic ingredients, they improve their dishes!

I agree on tip percentages - very confusing. Must be most confusing for people who come to North America from other countries who have no clue of these policies.

Tiger

 

[N.Bailey]

First off, I want to say that in the US, the federal minimum wage is $7.15. This is what people who work at McDonald's, Pizza Hut (where my son works), Wendy's, etc make per hour to start. These are not tipped positions, so they must be paid the minimum (though I think some states have lower minimum than the feds and I'm not real sure how it works, but in my state, we're paid the federal minimum, as it's also our state minimum).

As to servers (I waited tables for many years), they're paid a much lower minimum in the states. It may be slightly more now than when I worked in a restaurant, but at that time, it was $2.34 per hour. The check always went to the government to partially cover taxes (not complaininig, just stating facts).

Now, if you think servers are paid too much, you might want to remember that they rarely if ever get a weekends off, their schedule is usually the worst hours imaginable (3-11, 4-close, 12-8 etc). If you have children, oh well, you have to learn to see them when you can; especially once they start school (remember again that working evenings/weekends). Rarely does a restaurant offer, health insurance, dental insurance, retirement, paid vacations, etc... Oh, and I don't know how Disney operates, but the wait staff where I worked could pull an 8 hour shift (even longer at times) and never get a break (though you could run to the restroom when you had time).

While it's not your job to pay someone else's wages, keeping a few of these issues in mind might just change your prospective when it's time to put down your tip.

Also, Disney's prices are higher than most places in the USA (except for very fine dining of course), but it's because you're paying for the ambiance. I'm sure your families' restaurant isn't in Disney, or any other high destination tourist area? As said a billion times before, it's all about, location, location, location. Thus, making a $20 cheese a moot issue, IMO.

 

[Kay1]

McDonalds jobs are good for teenagers, retirees and anyone looking for a little extra money. That's about it. They earn very little but still get a higher hourly wage than table service waiters.

 

[N.Bailey]

McDonalds jobs are good for teenagers, retirees and anyone looking for a little extra money. That's about it. They earn very little but still get a higher hourly wage than table service waiters.

I agree with you in that it's a great job for those fitting your description, but even in Pennsylvania, I made upward to $200 a night when I was waiting tables. The hourly rate isn't where the money is for tipped positions. The $$$$ is the only benefit to a job like this, though. Rarely, are other benefits involved for anyone in these types of positions.

Oh and for the OP. Anyone working in a restaurant who works a job that is not a tipped position, makes the $7.15 per hour to start. Most descent restaurants (if they care anything about their employees) do not keep them at $7.15 for long. Where I worked, many were in the $15 per hour category(hardly great money either), but these positions rarely came with the benefit package, either. This is why they have a high turnover rate. Combine that with the fact that you're always zigging while everyone else is zagging and it's hard to feel satisfied (with life in general) with these types of positions.

 

[disneyfan2kids]

Now, if you think servers are paid too much, you might want to remember that they rarely if ever get a weekends off, their schedule is usually the worst hours imaginable (3-11, 4-close, 12-8 etc). If you have children, oh well, you have to learn to see them when you can; especially once they start school (remember again that working evenings/weekends). Rarely does a restaurant offer, health insurance, dental insurance, retirement, paid vacations, etc... Oh, and I don't know how Disney operates, but the wait staff where I worked could pull an 8 hour shift (even longer at times) and never get a break (though you could run to the restroom when you had time).

While it's not your job to pay someone else's wages, keeping a few of these issues in mind might just change your prospective when it's time to put down your tip.

Very... VERY well said!

 

[shellybaxter]

Frankly - Because it is the exact same wage structure in every restaurant in America...so why should WDW be any different?

It's not the same structure in every restaurant in America. California doesn't allow for the sub-minimum wage for servers. As a California resident I had a hard time understanding the concepts used in Florida. California's minimum wage is going up to $8.00 per hour in January so servers here get at minimum $8.00 per hour plus tips.

I except the prices and structure at Disney because I like to go to Disney and I like to go out to eat and the prices are simply what they charge so I pay.

 

[disneyfan2kids]

It's not the same structure in every restaurant in America. California doesn't allow for the sub-minimum wage for servers. As a California resident I had a hard time understanding the concepts used in Florida.

I except the prices and structure at Disney because I like to go to Disney and I like to go out to eat and the prices are simply what they charge so I pay.

Really? That's interesting, I didn't know Cali was different.

Now, if only Disney would open a park there....OH WAIT!?!?

 

[bicker]

I see a lot of the issues being raised as rather irrelevant. For example, whether restaurants in the United States in general, or at Walt Disney World specifically, are highly profitable or not doesn't affect whether or not they should comply with our society's principles for paying restaurant service staff.

Society dictates how little restaurant servers get paid. Society dictates that the cost of service provided by restaurant servers is to be substantially separate from the menu price. I see no foundation on which to criticize a specific restaurant or set of restaurants for doing either. Criticize society if you wish, but be sure to make sure that your criticisms clearly indicate that it is society that you're criticizing or someone will invariably misinterpret what you're trying to say, and reply to your message as if you said something that perhaps you didn't intend to imply.

The only things that are different about the Disney situation is that Disney is automatically charging a mandatory 18% (that's actually three things: the automatic-ness, the mandatory-ness, and the 18% versus 15%) under specific circumstances. Those are the only bases on which I can see any defensible criticisms directed specifically at Disney being launched.

And even some of that isn't clear-cut: It is not uncommon, in our society, for large groups to be charged an automatic gratuity, so in that regard, the criticism of the practice itself seem off-target, unless directed at the fact that Disney is defining a large group as "six" (which is two less than what is common in our society) or at the fact that Disney is charging more than the standard gratuity.

I hope this helps some folks understand why their criticisms are being assailed, and/or helps make it clear that when people assail a criticism, they're not defending the entirety of what Disney is doing, but rather perhaps defending Disney with regard strictly to what they inferred your criticism was focused on.

 

[soonerlpn]

Off subject but I just wanted to put some info out here. The concern for the wait staff is admirable. They do work hard and have to deal with a lot for little pay and usually no benefits. Lets just stop and look at something for a moment. How about different lines of work? CNA*s (certified nurse assistants) who take care of the elderly in a nursing home every day. Working weekends, working nights, holidays...Giving the personal day to day care that the patients can no longer do for themselves. How much do you think they get paid? Around 8/hour...Do they get benefits?? RARELY. Their job is a TRULY thankless one. Their work is extremely hard with little result seen on the paycheck / benefit side. I just wanted to put into perspective the wait staff thing. I mean if we cant pay the people who PHYSICALLY care for our parents and grandparents what is the REAL problem????

 

[Lewisc]

Good post. I find restaurants in general are reducing the party size for an "automatic service" charge. A number of restaurants are imposing an automatic service charge to the checks of gets who use the Entertainment book BOGO promotion. 18% is a common automatic tip

BUT

Every tipping guide I've read suggests a lower tip for buffet restaurants. I think an automatic 18% gratuity for a server in a buffet restaurant is high.

I wouldn't be surprised to see an automatic tip/service charge added to all DDP checks (any party size) 2009.

The only things that are different about the Disney situation is that Disney is automatically charging a mandatory 18% (that's actually three things: the automatic-ness, the mandatory-ness, and the 18% versus 15%) under specific circumstances. Those are the only bases on which I can see any defensible criticisms directed specifically at Disney being launched.

And even some of that isn't clear-cut: It is not uncommon, in our society, for large groups to be charged an automatic gratuity, so in that regard, the criticism of the practice itself seem off-target, unless directed at the fact that Disney is defining a large group as "six" (which is two less than what is common in our society) or at the fact that Disney is charging more than the standard gratuity.

I hope this helps some folks understand why their criticisms are being assailed, and/or helps make it clear that when people assail a criticism, they're not defending the entirety of what Disney is doing, but rather perhaps defending Disney with regard strictly to what they inferred your criticism was focused on.

 

[Tiger926]

I see a lot of the issues being raised as rather irrelevant. Whether restaurants in the United States in general, or at Walt Disney World specifically, are highly profitable or not doesn't affect whether or not they should comply with our society's principles for paying restaurant service staff.

Society dictates how little restaurant servers get paid. Society dictates that the cost of service provided by restaurant servers is to be substantially separate from the menu price. I see no foundation on which to criticize a specific restaurant or set of restaurants for doing either. Criticize society if you wish, but be sure to make sure that your criticisms clearly indicate that it is society that you're criticizing or someone will invariably misinterpret what you're trying to say, and reply to your message as if you said something that perhaps you didn't intend to imply.

The only things that are different about the Disney situation is that Disney is automatically charging a mandatory 18% (that's actually three things: the automatic-ness, the mandatory-ness, and the 18% versus 15%) under specific circumstances. Those are the only bases on which I can see any defensible criticisms directed specifically at Disney being launched.

And even some of that isn't clear-cut: It is not uncommon, in our society, for large groups to be charged an automatic gratuity, so in that regard, the criticism of the practice itself seem off-target, unless directed at the fact that Disney is defining a large group as "six" (which is two less than what is common in our society) or at the fact that Disney is charging more than the standard gratuity.

I hope this helps some folks understand why their criticisms are being assailed, and/or helps make it clear that when people assail a criticism, they're not defending the entirety of what Disney is doing, but rather perhaps defending Disney with regard strictly to what they inferred you criticism was focused on.

I don't find them irrevelant at all.

I am approaching this differently since I see my family use absolutely top-notch ingredients at all times (my dad uses 7 different kinds of tomatoes just for his sauce), as well as deal with high wages and taxes to contend with, whereas Disney doesn't necessarily have these issues to deal with, but they get so much more money for their products, so it's easier for them to make a profit. My family's top priority is food quality, but at some Disney restaurants, this is definitely not the case.

I guess I'm biased and a bit protective of my family's hard work. I honestly didn't know that Disney's servers got paid that little - good for the company, but not so good for the servers. By the way, my hubby and I always tip, even if bad service because tips are pretty much expected in our countries - especially in yours as we have to supplement wages.

This is my issue - Disney won't necessarily see that patrons are unhappy with quality of food as they get their money, yet, many patrons give less of a tip to the people who served the lousy food. This is my issue - I shouldn't have to supplement wages that much ($2.00/hour for servers is a lot of supplementing) as then the restaurant is never going to feel it - servers are tipped for great food when they never made it, yet, they are also tipped less for kitchen or food problems, and this is a problem for me, and I'm sure many servers as well. Eg. I had a horrible meal at Chef Mickey's for 2 reasons: 1) Terrible food and 2) Terrible service. The server still got her tip, although not quite 18%, which was our way of dealing with the bad service, but what about the bad food? It would not have been fair for me to give her less tip because the food was so lousy, as she had nothing to do with that. Chef Mickey's has been getting horrible reviews, yet they are still packed. Will the food quality improve if this is the case? Probably not. I honestly feel that if Disney paid higher hourly wages, then they would put more improvements into their food products, as this is a direct cost of doing business, wherease when it's automatic, this responsibility has been passed to the customer, and that should not be solely my responsibility, KWIM?

Not sure what the answer is, but in my opinion, Disney restaurants are making out very well since they have now passed tipping to customers - this will surely give them less motivation to provide stellar products, as the gap between product vs. service is getting wider and wider, whereas at my family's restaurants, it's a closer relationship and one that is better for patrons and staff - kitchen and servers are paid well; therefore, they both have motivation to provide good products and service, whereas at Disney, I don't see this happening. I read tons of posts on here where people have stiffed the servers because the prices of the food are too high, and the quality isn't good, and that has nothing to do with the servers. That is Disney's responsibility, yet they are passing it onto the servers and the patrons, and that in my humble opinion, is not good.

Tiger

 

[laalaa]

Just thought id share the tipping and wage culture here in the UK.

I work as a waitress in my local pizza hut. Minimum wage is the UK is £5.52/hr, so about $11 at the current exchange rates. This applies to everyone, whether in a tipped position or not.

Only exception is age. There is a lower mimimum wage for under 22's but i think it is about £4/hr.

However tipping is generally very poor compared to the US here. Obviously there are some exceptions, generally younger couples tip more. Average is less than 10% though.

My colleague had a large table last night that were a walk up and lucky to get a table straight away on a busy night. They had appetisers, entrees, desserts and then hot drinks. The bill was pushing £100 ($200) but they didnt leave her a tip at all . However, this wasnt for bad serivce because they commended her to our manager on the way out.

I guess some people just dont beleive in tipping full stop.


Waiting tables is a hard job, and i think some customers dont realise just how hard it is. However, id swap it anyday for my previous job which was a critical care nurse!

 

[bicker]

My family's top priority is food quality, but at some Disney restaurants, this is definitely not the case.

And that's a big difference between a family and a corporation. Corporations have a legal obligation to make all decisions in the best interests of their owners.

This is my issue - Disney won't necessarily see that patrons are unhappy with quality of food as they get their money

Disney will see this, if it ever was to occur, in decreased sales revenues from the restaurants.

yet, many patrons give less of a tip to the people who served the lousy food.

Those patrons are doing wrong. In that scenario, the blame rests on the patrons doing the wrong thing.

I honestly feel that if Disney paid higher hourly wages, then they would put more improvements into their food products, as this is a direct cost of doing business, wherease when it's automatic, this responsibility has been passed to the customer, and that should not be solely my responsibility, KWIM?

No, I don't. I think you're trying to apply your personal sensitivities to a business situation. It just doesn't fit.