Minimum points

[Sandisw]

Yes. I have been planting the seeds for my friends and family since VDH announced and longer for dvc! They have seen me use my “perks,” took my cousins to moonlight magic etc. Some of them have various timeshares as well. I have discussed perks and how dvc you are just guaranteed a room. They have gone to DVC presentations on cruises and at Saratoga, they agree dvc offers more!

We are a Disney family! But I have gently brought up this issue (also why I jumped on this board to see everyone’s opinion and the latest news). But they are unanimously in agreement that resale is not for them because it’s just another timeshare (which it is but dvc is promoted as a bit more magic), they want the feeling of being in the “club.” With the closer harbor hotels, the new Westin, they don’t really see it as a cost savings, they want to be “in the club.” One of my cousins has a house in Golden Oaks and she just said no thanks to a GCV resale points because “it’s not the same.”

People are irrational and I am sure the same can be argued that we are irrational for even buying dvc. But to reach Disney fans, especially DL fans and locals Disney need to bring something magical to the table.

150 points for WDW is good because we stay there longer and there are options for larger 1 and 2 brs. DL doesn’t have a lot of larger accommodations to splurge and the utility when DL fans come for a day or two just doesn’t work without something sprinkled on top.

Given the pent up demand for another DL DVC, I don’t see them having a problem selling.

Seems odd that someone would walk away simply because they don’t like DVD is willing to offfer a less expensive version for those who really don’t care if they get access to the perks.

I mean, isn’t that why people buy resale..they don’t care if they have access??

 

[Canchaser143]

The membership perks in my opinion truly are not great for those who are mainly going to be visiting Disneyland. So they'd be missing out on the Tomorrowland Lounge, Moonlight Magic (which happens rarely over here), the $20(?) discount on Annual Passes, and trading points in for other disney things (cruises etc)..... WDW gives White Card members access to two member lounges, special annual passes, and multiple Moonlight Magic Nights lol Its rather unbalanced, but perhaps that will change in the future with the new tower. I think the move to 100 for new members is awesome, gives more families a chance to buy direct!

 

[take36]

Given the pent up demand for another DL DVC, I don’t see them having a problem selling.

Seems odd that someone would walk away simply because they don’t like DVD is willing to offfer a less expensive version for those who really don’t care if they get access to the perks.

I mean, isn’t that why people buy resale..they don’t care if they have access??

I can't speak on the pent up demand but base on my last GCV sale yes people willing to spend!

DVC is a luxury purchase and for most of the rank and file, the total amount does not really matter, especially with financing options. At least for me, I want a good and efficient use of my money to have a little bit of that Disney magic in my life. Numbers wise it didn't make sense at 100? and 125? a point when I bought in on the initial contracts, and they certainly didn't make since at 155+ even at resale prices.

Maybe your pitch/current policy Disney gets some resale members to consider direct but at the expense of an relatively affluent of Disney fans that just want VDH and be a full member (without spending on more points then they need).

 

[Sandisw]

I can't speak on the pent up demand but base on my last GCV sale yes people willing to spend!

DVC is a luxury purchase and for most of the rank and file, the total amount does not really matter, especially with financing options. At least for me, I want a good and efficient use of my money to have a little bit of that Disney magic in my life. Numbers wise it didn't make sense at 100? and 125? a point when I bought in on the initial contracts, and they certainly didn't make since at 155+ even at resale prices.

Maybe your pitch/current policy Disney gets some resale members to consider direct but at the expense of an relatively affluent of Disney fans that just want VDH and be a full member (without spending on more points then they need).

I am sure there have been plenty of potential buyers at WDW who didn’t want or need 150 points either so this is not a unique VDH situation. My own cousin wanted RIV but didn’t want to spend for 150.

Simply allows DVD to capture a lot more potential buyers. Had it not been lowered, then it seems thst these potential VDH owners who are local would have been forced to buy 150 and would be walking away regardless.

Certainly been a great discussion though!!

 

[tjkraz]

I can't shake the opinion the more complicated and confusing DVC makes all of this, the more they put new buyers off. Restrictions, no restrictions, grandfathering, minimum buy in, minimum for eligibility. If a flow chart is required to understand a timeshare something has gone awry.

It's still rather straightforward if you buy 150 from Disney: Points can be used at every resort, full perks access, no grandfathering or other asterisks.

The new wrinkle is this 100 points = no perks. We'll have to see how people perceive that. Not sure that they're going to lose many buyers due to offense or confusion. It's still a $30k commitment to get full rights and benefits, and about $10k less if you're willing to forego the perks. I personally know some people who value the ability to use points at all of the resorts, but were wary of the $30k commitment. Buying 100 direct at least leaves the door open to adding another 50 later for perks.

I joined this site just to comment on this thread. I was looking at DVC before the whole pandemic and now that I’m looking again to say I’m put off is an understatement. How fast they raised the point requirements is incredible, and the thought of even being able to “buy direct” without getting the extras is borderline offensive. For someone who just has a family that wants to go to WDW and doesn’t mind the 14 resort limit it’s hard to believe anyone would buy direct instead of resale. I really want to buy direct but I just can’t and it feels like they are poking me in the eyes. The problem of course is if they don’t lock me into Disney then I’ll eventually go to other places instead and they will lose out on all that secondary income like ticket prices, food, merchandise, etc. Also my kids will never get that Disney nostalgia to keep them coming back. If that’s what they want and they have the demand I guess but they can’t say I didn’t try to save the relationship.

The problem DVC faces--and it's a problem 32 years in the making--is the dwindling contracts. We've got contracts for the likes of HHI selling for ~$60 per point, and the values will get even lower in the coming years. If those resale contracts contained full rights and benefits, there's absolutely no reason to buy direct. Sure we can argue that $217 is too high--not to mention the even higher rates on "sold out" resorts. But there's no rate disney could afford to charge which is going to compete with $60.

This is now a perpetual problem. When 2042 arrives and the first wave of resorts has fully expired, suddenly SSR will be the budget option with only 12 years remaining. Then AKV. Then BLT.

In my opinion, the perk restrictions are more accurately viewed as a reward for buying direct than a penalty for buying resale. It's the 3-year warranty and free oil changes that come with a new car purchase vs used. There are DVC events like Moonlight Magic and member cruises which are limited in capacity. Hundreds of members who want to attend those events are shut out, and it would be even worse if more people qualified.

Annual Passes are returning, but Disney has made it clear that they won't be available for purchase at all times. The inference is that Disney has caps on the amount of passes which will be sold. DVC members will supposedly be given greater latitude ("The DVC Disney Sorcerer Pass is expected to be on sale more often throughout the year, even when the pass is not broadly available for sale to Florida Residents.) Thus if resale owners were eligible to buy the pass, limits would be reached sooner.

Not everyone can afford to buy direct and DVC knows that. Granting additional rights and privileges to resale points doesn't make their business model any more sustainable.

 

[Chili327]

But, honest question, do you really believe someone wants VDH and doesn’t like that they need 150 points for perks, will actually walk away and buy nothing and be locked out of the the tower?

No, but they might wait for VDH resale instead.

 

[take36]

I am sure there have been plenty of potential buyers at WDW who didn’t want or need 150 points either so this is not a

Did your cousin not need 150 points or its not in her budget? 150 points gets you about a week at WDW which I think is very reasonable and a good length. I stay about that and I have to be creative to keep it under 150. 100 would be a disaster!

150 at VDH (at VGC point chart) is 4 days at the most expensive end and I don't know the average stay for DL but for those local and local-ish its way more then needed. I stay about 3 nights at most 4 nights and I'm a super fan like everyone else here and I am not even at the parks for 4 days.

 

[take36]

On an unrelated noted, how many points is everyone thinking of adding on?

I plan to add on enough for 2 days. I'm a big DL goer and go at least twice a year. I had hoped for more 1BRs so I would buy enough to have the option of a 1 BR but it looks to be very scarce and I never have any luck with the coveted rooms!

 

[Sandisw]

Did your cousin not need 150 points or its not in her budget? 150 points gets you about a week at WDW which I think is very reasonable and a good length. I stay about that and I have to be creative to keep it under 150. 100 would be a disaster!

150 at VDH (at VGC point chart) is 4 days at the most expensive end and I don't know the average stay for DL but for those local and local-ish its way more then needed. I stay about 3 nights at most 4 nights and I'm a super fan like everyone else here and I am not even at the parks for 4 days.

She does not visit for more than 4 nights a year..nothing to do with affordability

So, 150 was way more then needed for a studio for those 4 nights at RIV. And, if she missed a year, she’d have way way more than necessary.

Most of our trips are not longer than 4 nights either…though I go 6 to 8 times a year so that’s why we have a lot!! Lol

Again, it’s not about each circumstance because everyone has different but plenty of buyers, regardless of resort, didn’t want or need 150 direct points…and don’t care enough about the membership extras to buy direct.

Another thing is FL residents don’t need membership extras as they have access to less expensive passes and discounts..so I bet there are plenty of them that can benefit from contracts with less

Side note..this reduction to 100 points means she will be a DVC owner at RIV!!

I definitely get that it would have been a wonderful thing to lower both..but I guess I’m still confused how having this as an option, when 150 is still available changes things.

To answe your other question, won’t be buying VDH..

 

[AstroBlasters]

This reminds me of a thread on the Aulani board where a poster was stating that DVC (resale or direct) was a rip off and that no one ever factors in TVM or the dues and that she has run the numbers.

When pressed it turns out that she didn’t actually know that much, wouldn’t produce her numbers, and that she doesn’t travel often and when she does it’s at a super military discount with a lot of travel date flexibility because she is retired. So in her case, buying DVC would never make sense.

To ask someone for their “pitch” and then say “well in my case then doesn’t work or a I don’t care about those things” to me is similar.

If you only do WDW, are fine with SSR/OKW/AKV, and don’t go that often and so don’t t care about APs or other discounts then you are correct that direct DVC probably doesn’t make sense for you.

IMO, that does not correlate to direct doesn’t make sense for anyone. Many families go twice or more a year and want APs, want the discounts on food and merch, like the perks of TOTW or lounges, want the peace of mind that they can stay at any resort now or in the future, or just don’t want to go through the drawn out resale process.

Nobody is wrong, it’s just that everyone has a different situation.

 

[take36]

I can share my numbers. 2009 I bought for maybe 100/point? and I see they going for around 250 recently, maybe more a few months ago. At 10% a year for the S%P500 and using the dividends to help pay for lodging we looking at end amount of about 350 a point (minus fees/taxes).

I saved about a 1k a trip (to DL) net the dues. So we looking at a wash in terms of pure investment potential. I never got the AP's. BUT I had the discounts, went a moonlight magic, got to check Top of the World Lounge, and a member cruise! It was FANTASTIC and totally worth it for the magic (experience)! I had to plan a bit more, less housekeeping, and the whole covid situation but overall this was totally worth it!

 

[Disnid]

Given the pent up demand for another DL DVC, I don’t see them having a problem selling.

Seems odd that someone would walk away simply because they don’t like DVD is willing to offfer a less expensive version for those who really don’t care if they get access to the perks.

I mean, isn’t that why people buy resale..they don’t care if they have access??

I think that’s part of the confusion though, the fact that you even have to know whether or not you should care about the extra perks. I think most people assume you always get the perks.

Disney used to be good with that “almost inclusive” feel. If you stayed at a deluxe hotel and got a dining pass you’d literally be covered from the moment you landed to the time you left. Airport transportation, magic bands, food snacks, you could be covered the whole way with nothing. Now they cut out buses, got rid of free magic bands, don’t have dining (though maybe it’ll come back?) and the DVC is really by default just a regular timeshare but for Disney hotels. That’s why I struggle with the 100 point thing. Why not 50? Why not 75? You are already gating the stuff at 150 why not open up even smaller points?

 

[Sandisw]

I think that’s part of the confusion though, the fact that you even have to know whether or not you should care about the extra perks. I think most people assume you always get the perks.

Disney used to be good with that “almost inclusive” feel. If you stayed at a deluxe hotel and got a dining pass you’d literally be covered from the moment you landed to the time you left. Airport transportation, magic bands, food snacks, you could be covered the whole way with nothing. Now they cut out buses, got rid of free magic bands, don’t have dining (though maybe it’ll come back?) and the DVC is really by default just a regular timeshare but for Disney hotels. That’s why I struggle with the 100 point thing. Why not 50? Why not 75? You are already gating the stuff at 150 why not open up even smaller points?

But since they started this line of direct only perks, there have been a few times where they allowed a buyer in for less than the advertised minimum and it didn’t include perks. It wasn’t advertised but if a buyer wanted in and didn’t care, DVD sold them less.

But, in 2021 when thjs went to 150 for both, they have had a really hard line, and let buyers walk away even if they could care less if they got the perks.

Why 100? Who knows but they still want to sell a decent number of points to new buyers to make it realistic for use but do offer current owners a chance to purchase fewer points as add ons. Another thing is that they don’t seem to have trouble selling rooms for cash at any of the resorts they are selling so while they want to spark sales, 100 points might prove a happy medium.

They have always had a minimum so again, nothjng here is new.

When I bought in 2009, it was 160. At one point, it was even higher than that. Thst is why I had to buy resale first so I could add in less than that at BLT..and once I had it..I sold the original small resale I bought.

I think it’s a great they have decided to offer potential buyers a choice..and not sure how it can be looked at as anything but a positive for future sales..which is all DVD cares about.

If you want to discuss all the changes to Disney and DVC, that’s a different topic..but the whole strategy since 2012 has been to have resale seen as a lesser product.

And, given the number of resale buyers, it’s hard not to admit that perks aren’t seen by everyone as something that is worth what it costs to get them.

So, if resale can sell without perks, no reason DVD can’t either.

 

[SL6827]

More pressure on studios with this?

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

And only 7 of those will be at WDW.

Only 9 total and only 7 at WDW. Oh my! haha
When I purchased there were only 8 total and only 6 at WDW and yet I and many others still bought. I really never imagined that the pace would continue like it has. #7 was pretty obviously on it's way (BLT) but still no guarantee. I'd guess a lot of owners stay mostly at their home resort but even if you stay at all resorts that's 7 years to cycle thru. I do truly shake my head at the thought that once the 2042 resorts expire that the sky will fall because there are too few.

 

[Sandisw]

Only 9 total and only 7 at WDW. Oh my! haha
When I purchased there were only 8 total and only 6 at WDW and yet I and many others still bought. I really never imagined that the pace would continue like it has. #7 was pretty obviously on it's way (BLT) but still no guarantee. I'd guess a lot of owners stay mostly at their home resort but even if you stay at all resorts that's 7 years to cycle thru. I do truly shake my head at the thought that once the 2042 resorts expire that the sky will fall because there are too few.

I don’t think it is that but it does leave one without an option in the Epcot area if those resorts come back and can’t be stayed at by owners with resale points.

I agree a lot but where they want to be anyway, but it could make SAP a bit harder to get near park resorts for those who are locked out of newer ones.

Obviously if one doesn’t care at all, buying direct hold little appeal, but if one might care, then this move may very well sway someone to buy from DVD.

 

[AstroBlasters]

I think that’s part of the confusion though, the fact that you even have to know whether or not you should care about the extra perks. I think most people assume you always get the perks.

Disney used to be good with that “almost inclusive” feel. If you stayed at a deluxe hotel and got a dining pass you’d literally be covered from the moment you landed to the time you left. Airport transportation, magic bands, food snacks, you could be covered the whole way with nothing. Now they cut out buses, got rid of free magic bands, don’t have dining (though maybe it’ll come back?) and the DVC is really by default just a regular timeshare but for Disney hotels. That’s why I struggle with the 100 point thing. Why not 50? Why not 75? You are already gating the stuff at 150 why not open up even smaller points?

https://dvcnews.com/dvc-program-men...-news/5560-100-point-minimum-purchase-returns

“At one time, the minimum purchase was as high as 230 points. Other times it has been set at 200 points, 160 and 150 points. Approximately 10 years ago, DVC also promoted a 100-point buy-in.”

Their goal is to maximize their profit by selling points. It’s a moving target that they will adjust.

 

[hglenn]

Only 9 total and only 7 at WDW. Oh my! haha
When I purchased there were only 8 total and only 6 at WDW and yet I and many others still bought. I really never imagined that the pace would continue like it has. #7 was pretty obviously on it's way (BLT) but still no guarantee. I'd guess a lot of owners stay mostly at their home resort but even if you stay at all resorts that's 7 years to cycle thru. I do truly shake my head at the thought that once the 2042 resorts expire that the sky will fall because there are too few.

Oh I don't think the sky is falling.... but there is a big difference in going from 8 to 14 than from 14 to 7... Not that you don't know what you're getting into but, like so many other things, it feels so far off...until it's not.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Oh I don't think the sky is falling.... but there is a big difference in going from 8 to 14 than from 14 to 7... Not that you don't know what you're getting into but, like so many other things, it feels so far off...until it's not.

Or it may just make the decision of where to stay easier.

 

[hglenn]

Or it may just make the decision of where to stay easier.

No doubt about that!