Mini DVD or Hard Drive Comcorder

[crzy4dsny]

I am trying to decide between getting one of these types of camera. I kind of got it down to two. One was a Sony dvd, which was $499, the other was a JVC hard drive for $599. I like the idea of a hard drive because you don't have to deal with the disc. On the hard drive you can record up to about 4 hours and 30 min before you have to download. It doesn't sound like much time but I think the most we have ever recorded on a trip was like 1 hr 30 min. If you wanted to record the same amount of time on to the mini dvd, you would have to carry 9 mini disc's with you. That sounds like a lot.

Does anyone have any experiance with a hard drive camera? Any info on whats good or bad about them?

 

[Kelly Grannell]

My hands are tied. Both are not optimal. DVD camcorder will have compression issue that's visible on any TV larger than 24" (unless you use XP mode, which means you'll only have about 25 minutes of recording time per disc). JVC HDD recorder, well, the picture quality is just not there. I tried both of them for about a week each and returned both of them feeling very disappointed.

For the time being, miniDV is still the only way to go (for home camcorder).

 

[manning]

Agree with Kelly on that!!

 

[cryssi]

I also agree about the miniDV. Stay away from the DVD ones. We actually have a Digital8, which, for being as old as it is, takes great video! DH wants that canon pro miniDV, can't remember the model now but seeing as we have just acquired a D200, no video camera for us anytime soon...LOL

Oh, and mini DV tapes take 60 min of footage, DVDs take 30 min, I believe. correct me if I'm wrong?

good luck. you know, if you go to costco and get both, you can try them out and then return the one you don't like...

 

[Kelly Grannell]

cryssi is correct.

As an additional info. The difference between D8 and miniDV is just the tape they use. They both use the same M-JPEG compression, same algorithm, same everything. Again, just different types of tapes

 

[crzy4dsny]

I don't know much about camcorders. Is a minidv a digital video camera? If so why do you need tapes? Is this the type of camera that the only way you can view what you have taped is by hooking the camera to the t.v ? I kind of see that as a hassle.

What is a good minidv camera to buy?

 

[Kelly Grannell]

I don't know much about camcorders. Is a minidv a digital video camera? If so why do you need tapes? Is this the type of camera that the only way you can view what you have taped is by hooking the camera to the t.v ? I kind of see that as a hassle.

What is a good minidv camera to buy?

Just because it's digital, it doesn't always have to be stored on a disc or flash-card. For years (at least 12 years) digital video have been stored on tapes. ALL camcorder can only be viewed when playback via the camera. You can, however, buy a miniDV player if you're inclined to.

What good miniDV camera to buy?

This is a compilations of answers I gave from another thread.

What you need to look for when buying a camcorder:

1. Camera size vs. CCD Sensor size: The smaller it is, the smaller the CCD is going to be, the worse quality it's going to have. Making it worse, no DVD camcorder have the same quality as a mid-end miniDV camcorder.

If you HAVE to go with DVD, then the Sony model 403 is for you. If you can go with miniDV, then the Sony model 90 is for you. Everything else is a compromise.

Most camcorders come with only 1/6" CCD sensors. Those Sonys I mentioned come it 1/3" CCD sensors. The fact that they have 4x the surface area means taking pictures/videos in darker lighting more of a breeze. (much less digital grain, better resolution, better colour rendition).

2. make sure that the microphone is IN FRONT of the camera and NOT brushing with your fingers when you're holding the camcorder. There are too many camcorders with microphone closer to the back of the camera and/or having the risk of brushing with your fingers while recording resulting in bad audio recording. (imagine hearing scraping sound or getting ambient noise instead of your kid's singing)

3. I'd recommend: The miniDV is HC-90 and the DVD is the 403.

These models are going to be replaced (already are, at some locations) with DCR-HC96 (miniDV) and DCR-DVD405 (DVD). The high definition model number remains the same (HDR-HC1)

4. miniDV and D8 both using Motion-JPEG compression. DVD using MPEG2 compression worse than miniDV. That's the problem with interlaced video, there camera captures half a field/frame.

5. 3 CCD vs 1 CCD, if everything else is the same (CCD size, type of lens etc) are the same then the 3 CCD tend to be better in colour accuracy. However, Panasonic's CCD are smaller in size than the two models I gave you hence the low-light performance (indoors, Disney parades, etc) is still worse. Also the Sonys I mentined utilizes Primary Colour Filters to mimic (but not too succesfully) 3 CCD performance.

All in all, with the larger sensor and a somewhat similar colour rendition as the 3 CCD, the Sony is still better (I've tried Sony, Canon, Panasonic and JVC priced at $1200 and lower) with JVC to be the absolute worst.

As much as I love Canon and dislike Sony in general, for camcorders (consumer and prosumer models) there is nothing out there that best Sony just yet.

PS: Panasonic widescreen mode is not "real widescreen" (although they actually advertise it as true widescreen) and just simulated. So instead of having wider angle in widescreen mode, it actually chops off the top and bottom of the screen whereas the Sony and Canon camcorders use real widescreen where the recorded angle is actually wider in widescreen-mode.

6. Yes, we REALLY need a camcorder sticky.

 

[cryssi]

Kelly you are a plethora of good advice...

 

[Kelly Grannell]

LOL. We really need that sticky.

 

[boBQuincy]

The hard drive video cameras have a great (theoretical) advantage of far less moving parts. If a video camera breaks it is usually the tape drive, hard drive cameras do not have a tape drive.

The jard drive does have a motor and head drive but these drives have been used in still cameras for years and although I don;t rust them as much as a flash card they have proven to be very reliable.

Flash card video cameras will be out soon, the CF cards are already up to 8 GB, enough for more home video than I care to watch.

MiniDVD cameras seem like a stopgap measure to me, as flash memory continues to drop in price I can see the miniDVD going away, soon. Of course I have been wrong before...

For now I would get a hard drive video camera ($$$) or a miniDV (tape) if the HD was too expensive. Since flash memory is still rapidly dropping in price the HD cameras should come down quickly, they are a lot easier to build without all the little moving parts.


boB

 

[Kelly Grannell]

The problem with HDD camera is not the HDD, the sensor they are using is just plain sucks. If the use Sony optics and technology PLUS using HDD, then it'll be fine.

 

[crzy4dsny]

The camera I have now is a vhc ? I think. It is the one that uses the small square tapes that you can load into a regular vcr tape and play it in a vcr. The thing that I am trying to get away from is having tons of these little tapes all around the house. They are only a half hour each. The thing I liked about the hard drive is you don't have to deal with these tapes or small dvd's.
You could just download onto a normal size dvd.

Kelly, you apparently know very well what you are talking about and I am not second guessing you. But how bad is the picture on a hard drive camera? How would the picture compare to the camera that I have now? Should I just wait until the technology gets better to make a purchase?

 

[Kelly Grannell]

If you're comparing to your current VHS-C or VHS, then it's already leaps and bounds better. However, if you're comparing it to miniDV camcorder at the same price range, you'll be somewhat disappointed just because the picture tend to be a bit muted and the black is not really black. Compression is also a bit of a problem unless you use the highest quality setting (imagine water rippling or sprinkles of water will look a tad blocky) and the colour gradation have a little bit of macro-blocking.

Sony is coming out with HDD camcorder soon, so I'm hoping it'll be better than JVC.

 

[manning]

Here is something that may help you if you are looking to transfer old VHS tapes to DVD.

This is part of an article by James Coates that appeared in the Feb 26 edition of the Chicago Tribune.

"At a Costco discount store I snapped up a $150 Lite-On LVW-5115 DVD video recorder complete with television tuner and the ability to record (and play) all those confusing formats--DVD-R, DVD+R, DVD-RW and DVD+RW.

It connects to a television set and comes with inputs for coaxial cable, for yellow/red/white cable RCA composite video and for IEEE 1394 or FireWire digital camcorder cables.

You can plug a VCR into the DVD recorder and play those old video cassettes to record them as digital files on DVDs, or you can plug in a camcorder and directly burn your home movies onto a disc without needing to mess with any kind of computer at all.

Until you've experienced it, one has trouble realizing just what a sweet convenience it is to simply bring the camcorder home, plug it in, push a button and wait an hour or two for it to spit out a Hollywood-style DVD to pass along to family and friends.

A feature called the Guider is a big reason why I relish these Lite-On DVD machines from the Taipei-based company that focuses on the inexpensive end of the consumer electronics industry. (www.liteon.com)

The Guider definitely is a solution to a problem many of us had with VHS-type video recorders bristling with complicated set up menus, maddening programming requirements and those ubiquitously symbolic LEDs flashing 12:00 because the buyer couldn't even figure out how to set the time.

By contrast the Guider lives behind a big fat button on the remote clicker that you cannot miss. Tap the Guider button and a blue screen appears on the TV set with just 4 large orange icons: Play, Record, Timer Record and Disc Tools."

 

[Kelly Grannell]

Don't be fooled by that article. Standalone DVD recorders are not always equal (in quality). You get what you paid for. The best on the market (based on personal experience) is Panasonic, second best is Pioneer. I ended up buying the Pioneer because it comes built in with a slew of color correction, noise reduction, black level control etc and the picture quality is only a tiny bit worse than the Panasonic (and the Panasonic with firewire connection costs $300 more (at the time). Which is 50% higher than the Pioneer. (I own the DVR-633)

 

[ashmufc]

What kind of media do oyu record onto with DV?

 

[Kelly Grannell]

miniDV is a tape media, so does full-sized professional DV. Even high-definition professional video camera uses tapes.